Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table a document, a letter from the PSAC Northwest Territories Area Council, entitled Workplace Bullying. It is addressed to the Honourable Glen Abernethy. It is from Mr. David Bob, president of PSAC North, NWT Area Council. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Of course, today is stop a bully day and all Members have received a copy of this little petition or, sorry, I should say contract. It says, Stop a Bully, Safe and Anonymous. It’s an anti-bullying contract. I would like to table mine, also with a pledge. I promise not to bully Cabinet for the rest of the day. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to table the document here that is very timely and addresses some of the aspects of our exercise underway in developing a Sustainable Economic Development Strategy. This work is put forward by Senator Nick Sibbeston, who is in the House with us today. It’s entitled, Plugging into the Future, Executive Summary. It describes some of the real success stories that science and technology have or might soon provide to northern communities and includes a vision of where we might go from here. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. Item 18, first reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 9-17(4), NWT Main Estimates, 2013-2014; Public Works and Services, Education, Culture and Employment.
By the authority given to me as Speaker, by Motion 1-17(4), I hereby authorize the House to sit beyond the daily hour of adjournment to consider the business before the House, with Mr. Dolynny in the chair.
I would like to call Committee of the Whole to order. We have before us Tabled Document 9-17(4), NWT Main Estimates, 2013-2014; and Bill 1, Tlicho Statutes Amendment Act. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Committee would like to consider Tabled Document 9-17(4), NWT Main Estimates, 2013-2014, with the continuation of Public Works and Services and as well as Education, Culture and Employment. Thank you.
Thank you. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Agreed. We will commence after a short break.
Mr. Abernethy, would you care to introduce your witnesses to the Chamber?
Thank you, Mr. Chair. With me today are Paul Guy, who is the deputy minister of Public Works and Services, and Laurie Gault, who is the director of the Technology Service Centre.
Thank you, Ms. Gault and Mr. Guy. Welcome back to the House. Committee, we’re on page 7-13 on directorate, and with questions I have Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just building off and continuing with the discussion before we concluded last night, Mr. Hawkins was asking a question about subcontractors and, actually, last night I had my iPad open to some specific e-mails that I was getting from some of the northern subcontractors that were listed under southern contractors bills for proposals in terms of getting some of those BIP points. In fact I had some e-mails from subcontractors who were saying that they didn’t get to see the proposal upon initial verbal agreements, seeing the proposal before it went in for the request. Just some concerns. This was after I’d made a Member’s statement in the House sometime last year.
One of the suggestions that were brought forward from a subcontractor, because he didn’t get utilized, could be the way they were described in the contracts with the general contractor, and they wanted to know if the government does have a policy or something in place that would get the subcontractors’ feedback and not just the general contractor. I do understand that the department and government work with the primary contractor, but can this government start developing a practice where they get information, feedback and reporting from the subcontractor to ensure that the primary contractor actually uses them specifically for the jobs that had won them the contract and had given them the extra Business Incentive Policy points outlined in the proposal? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We’re continually looking for ways to improve our processes and practice in the Government of the Northwest Territories, in particular in Public Works and Services. To that end, I’ve set up regular meetings with the Architects and Construction Association as well as the chambers of commerce, in order to get continual feedback and input from them on different processes in the Government of the Northwest Territories.
With respect to input from some of the subs that may be utilized in contracts, we’d be open to hearing anything they have to say. We do deal with the primary, but just for the record, when it comes to large projects as well as small projects, where there’s a commitment to use local vendors that have been included by name in the request for proposals, we do require the primaries to provide us with statistics and information on the usage of the individuals they’ve identified.
For instance, on East Three School we have a pretty good reconciliation from the primary on the number of local hires they made, the number of people they hired in the Inuvik area, the number of hours that were put in by local individuals. So in short, we’re always open to hearing from the vendors. They can deal with our Public Works staff in each of the regions who are managing the individual files to provide the input and, as always, we are open to thoughts and suggestions to help us improve our processes as we move forward as a government and a department.
Thank you. In regard to hearing from our vendors and the subcontractors, what would be the right way of getting that input from our subcontractors? Is there a complaints process or is there a process for concern, either on the webpage or a file or application that they would have to submit to government? Thank you.
Thank you. That’s assuming that there are complaints. This isn’t just about complaints, this is about learning best practices and getting the information that will help us improve processes. I would encourage any subcontractor that’s got any issue with a particular file to talk to the contract authority for that file. Each file is administered by different people in Public Works and Services. So I would encourage them to identify the appropriate contract authority and have a conversation with them.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Moving on with questions I have Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a drilldown on some of these problems here a little further. Would the Minister provide his definition, or I should say his department’s definition of using a bond versus a deposit? So maybe if he could divide the two, explain what they are and why you would use one over the other.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. For a specific definition of those two I will go to the deputy minister.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Mr. Guy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Contract regulations in the contract documents will call for different types of security that can be provided with a contract, one that’s entered into by the contractor and that can take the form of a bond, it can take the form of a letter of credit, it can take the form of a cash deposit, in some cases we can also take it in the form of an increased amount of holdback on the contractor, it depends on the size of the contract, the type of the contract, and the terms and conditions. So a bond is something that the contractor would purchase from a bonding agency that would provide the security to cover the terms and conditions and the delivery of the contract. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Guy. Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the application of these issuance of bonds or deposits, is there a difference between the percentage or value we would hold back in these circumstances, and maybe if they can provide some examples why you would use what percentage where or what low percentage or high percentage depending on the case. Thank you.
Thank you. In some smaller contracts the bonds may not make sense for a contractor to purchase a bond. So he may offer to provide cash security and we may ask for more cash security to cover the risks. Thank you.
In some cases do we require more in the context of the value of a bond versus a cash deposit and, if so, what are the circumstances contrived around that situation?
Thank you. For that we’ll go to Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will go to the deputy for some specifics, but just a reminder to committee that we deal with a huge range of contracts from small capital to larger capital to, sort of, more administrative contracts. So everyone would be slightly different. We’d use the same policies and procedures, but for specifics I’ll go to the deputy.
Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Mr. Guy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The bond would cover labour and materials, those types of things. Again, the contractor would purchase the bond, the bonding company would do its due diligence on the contractor to ensure that they have the ability to lead the work, the ability to pay the subcontractors, the ability to deliver the project, and they’re in a sense guaranteeing to the government that the work will be performed even in the event that the contractor fails to deliver, the bonding company is responsible to fund the completion of the work. So in those cases we would look for a bond that covers the value of the work.
In cases where we don’t have a bond and we want cash security or we want to retain a holdback, we would want to ensure that we have enough funding in place in securities, through either cash or a letter of credit, that would allow us to ensure that the contract is completed and that the subcontractors are paid. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Guy. Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you. Do we have any policy that focuses in on northern versus southern type of contractor, whereas by way of an example we have an expectation that a Northerner can use either a deposit or a bond, but southern contractors with zero investment here in the North must go by bond?
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It’s not specific to that. It really depends on the size of the contract, the magnitude of the contract, the cost of the contract, not where a vendor happens to be located.
Why on large contracts – and I’m not going to try to be too specific or we’d be here all day – do we have a policy that it’s only bond versus deposit?
I don’t believe that is the case, but for specifics we’ll go to the deputy.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Mr. Guy.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Generally on large contracts we would require a bond but there can be situations where a bond would not be required and that would be looked at on case-by-case basis. If there was an alternative security required, we would have to refer to the contract regs to see what was applicable.
Thank you, Mr. Guy. Mr. Hawkins.
What is the typical deposit range asked for when someone cannot get a bonding, that is a southern contractor? Also, the same question, if they are a northern contractor what is the range?
I would need more information about the type of contract and the type of work, and I would have to go back and refer to what’s allowable through the contract regulations or any particular type of contract. We do a number of different contracts. It could be for goods or services, it could be for janitorial work, it could be for the construction of a building. I would need more detail.
Okay, well, in a construction-type contract where we’re building, say, a warehouse, by way of example, just to make life simple, and the warehouse is $2 million – perhaps not unlike the one that’s proposed in Tuktoyaktuk, $1 million planning, $1 million in construction fees, or something like that. A $2 million project on a warehouse. If a southern company won this bid, what would their deposit be if they couldn’t get bonding, and if a local company out of Tuktoyaktuk wanted to do this project and they couldn’t get bonding, what type of deposit would be in that range?
I would have to look at the specific tender documents for that contract to see what is specified before I could respond to that.
Would the Minister be willing to get me some information on how the application and some examples of both the bond and deposits are put on our capital works projects, as well as specifically break out northern versus southern contractors?
