Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a few comments to this. It’s really speaking about reallocating, and people are hearing us in the communities. We do that on a regular basis. We see that, we allocate a few dollars here and there, we do things that certainly we want to see projects in the communities. This is a statement from this side of the House to say that the Early Childhood Development Initiative that we have taken on and the government has been working towards is a top priority to meet the objectives of the 17th Assembly, so what we are saying is that we, as a government, could do it. I have seen some amazing things on this side in the last 10 years, how money has been moved around, reallocations, coming up with new dollars to put this, if our minds are strong, towards it.
I do agree with the Minister that $8.2 million is a lot of money, but when you look at it, the overall number of communities, programs that we have to serve for early childhood development, it doesn’t seem quite enough. Of course, we are stretched with our dollars here.
I just want to say that this motion is talking about something that we always do as a government. It’s not something that cannot get done, it’s something that we want this Cabinet to look at work towards and see if we can meet our objectives. We all support early childhood development, just how we do this, we have disagreements about how we go about it. That’s all I want to say. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. To the motion.
Question has been called. Call for a recorded vote. All those in favour, please stand.
Mr. Moses, Mr. Bromley, Mr. Yakeleya, Mr. Dolynny, Mr. Hawkins, Ms. Bisaro.
All those opposed, please stand.
Mr. Menicoche, Mr. Blake, Mr. Beaulieu, Mr. Abernethy, Mr. Miltenberger, Mr. McLeod – Yellowknife South, Mr. Lafferty, Mr. Ramsay, Mr. McLeod – Inuvik Twin Lakes.
Votes are six for, nine against.
---Defeated
Committee, page 10-17, activity summary, Education, Culture and Employment, operations expenditure summary, $241.213 million. Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know the first round that I got through I focused a lot on early childhood development. I know when we give out our funding to our education authorities, being the Member that represents Inuvik Boot Lake and the Beaufort-Delta Education Authority and discussions and talking with both educators and staff, the amount of funding that they do get in that region alone, I’m not sure how the formula is given to the students, but in that area alone when we fund the Beaufort-Delta Education Authority it does have a very high cost associated to travel. So when we want educators or people from the authority to go into the communities, especially the coastal communities, there’s an added cost that really affects their budget and the amount of time they can go and support their teachers or go see how a school is doing. It does affect the budget. So it also affects the amount of programs that they might be able to do that year and might possibly be taking away positions within the authority that might otherwise be beneficial.
I think the department, when they do give out funding, has to have something in there that addresses the high cost of travel within the Beaufort-Delta region, and I’m sure it’s the same with the small communities in the other regions as well. I just want to ask the Minister how is that being addressed or looked at when we’re allocating dollars to these authorities. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. As it stands now, I can only speak to how we’re contributing to the school boards. I do have a list of just over $146 million to the school boards and the Beaufort-Delta Divisional Education Council is top on the line. We give more money based on the enrollment and also the cost factor as well, as the Member alluded to, the high cost of living in the communities.
My deputy alluded earlier that we’ll be re-evaluating the funding formula to the schools. So this is an area that could change as we develop the discussion paper on whether we’re going to be changing the formula funding. That’s an area that we’re going to be discussing. So what I’m sharing with you is current to date and then that will obviously see some changes. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Moses.
Thank you. I’m glad to hear that formula funding is something that’s going to be looked at and addressed. I think it’s long overdue because each authority only gets so many dollars to spend and when a lot of it goes into travel, that’s a lot taken out of the education components, the support components there.
Moving forward, one way that we can affect this is through a program that the Minister is very familiar with and that’s the e-learning program. I just wanted to make a little comment on the e-learning program. Committee has seen firsthand that program in action, seen the results that were given in a presentation, as well, to some Members on the increase of school marks as well as the options of doing academic classes that otherwise couldn’t have been done before. So just really amazing, innovative ways of educating our youth in the small communities. In the Beaufort-Delta there are seven of them that can be affected in a positive way. In the Sahtu there are four communities that can get this type of program delivered. In the North Slave about four or five. Then in the Deh Cho there would be four communities that could get on the e-learning system and we’d get high quality education to our youth in those small communities but also provide an academic course to these classes.
I know the Minister is aware of the e-learning program. It’s a great program. In fact we passed a bill in this House getting information using the e-learning system from students in Tuktoyaktuk, from the students and educators. So that e-learning system helped us pass legislation in this House. So, history, amazing.
I don’t know what to say any further, except that I do have a motion that I’d like to read into the House, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Go ahead, read your motion.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that this committee recommends that the government increase its allocation to fully fund the e-learning initiative currently provided and funded by the Beaufort-Delta District Education Council. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. A motion is on the floor. To the motion. Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Before I get into this motion specifically, the department and all Members of this Assembly have noticed that the Regular Members have introduced three motions particularly to this department. It’s not that we’re questioning their authority over what they’re doing, we just want to support the great things that are happening in education right now, early childhood development, child daycares and, in this case, the e-learning program.
We see what’s happening in the communities. We see how things are changing within the communities and throughout the Northwest Territories. This one in particular I think, the Beaufort-Delta is using its resources, a lot of its resources, actually, to get this education. I think last year it was four communities in the Beaufort-Delta. We want to set a goal of reaching all seven of those communities, but I mentioned earlier that we have communities that don’t have that type of education or the academic courses. We have four in the Sahtu, about four or five in the North Slave, four in the Deh Cho where this program can really do some wonders and have an impact on the education and the health and livelihood of our youth in the Northwest Territories.
As I mentioned, we did see the success of this program firsthand and we did pass a bill, the Education Act, we did an amendment to it, getting input from Tuk educators and students. Obviously, I brought this forward because we want to support the great work that the Beaufort-Delta Education Council is doing and the innovative style they are using to get this program into the places that need it, especially the coastal communities, they’re the next communities on the list and we want to look up and down the valley. We’ve got the fibre optic link coming in and going to be worked on and completed and that gives us a great opportunity to hit those communities in the Deh Cho, to hit those communities in the Sahtu and right across the Northwest Territories.
I don’t know what else to say, but I think that it’s an opportunity that we give the students from the smallest community to the biggest city here in Yellowknife equal opportunity, decent and quality education, and support our educators, support our authorities that are making decisions at the regional levels and support the good work that the department does do, as well as support the work of standing committee and also of Members of this Legislative Assembly.
It is Education Week and it’s a great way to recognize the great work that’s going on out there. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. To the motion, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to say that I do support this motion for a couple of reasons. One is that I have been able to personally see this initiative in action twice now and it is providing education at the high school level to communities that would not normally be able to get the range of courses that they are getting through the e-learning initiative.
Secondly, I think the fact that this is being fully funded by the Beau-Del District Education Council is patently unfair. This is an initiative on the part of this particular district education council and they are being funded on a per capita basis the way every other school board is being funded, and yet this is an initiative that is of huge benefit to the department because it’s affecting the schools within this particular district, but they are also wanting to expand into the Sahtu, so it’s not just for this particular education district.
The department has to realize that an initiative like this, the Beau-Del has spent a lot of money over the last three, four, five years to develop this particular program, and it really ought to be funded by the department. It shouldn’t be funded by the district education council.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. To the motion. Mr. Blake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I really support this e-learning initiative, and although we are asking for more funds here, I have been contacted by the Beaufort-Delta Education Council and they’re very excited for the coming year because they are getting an increase of $500,000. They’re really excited about that. I know the Sahtu is ready to come on board, and once that happens, I think that we could move forward on there and maybe increase it more next year, but at this time I can’t support this.
Thank you, Mr. Blake. To the motion. Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much. When it comes to e-learning, I did visit the Sunchild e-learning program. A great initiative. I tried to get that same type of programming not only for youth but young adults in Fort Liard, but at that time there was a bandwidth issue, so we weren’t able to pursue it any further. I know there are still some issues in the smaller communities with bandwidth and that once those are addressed we can certainly move forward with the e-learning program on a small scale.
I’m certainly supportive of e-learning. I’ve seen the value of it. Like I said, I visited the Sunchild Reserve and how successful it is, but their model is quite extensive. They’ve got e-learning and they’ve got dedicated teachers to help the students and the young adults, even adults, for that matter, that participate. That’s the success of that e-learning program.
I’m not too sure what specifically Beaufort-Delta District Education Council’s model is based on, but I certainly wish them success and certainly Mr. Blake also mentioned that they are getting an increase of $500,000 as additional resources for that. Once again, we’re asking for more money, and I certainly can’t support that. I wish the motion was different. I wish it said let’s explore e-learning in all the regions and districts, and that’s where the focus should be. The Member spoke about that, about the value in other regions and districts as well. With that, as the motion currently reads, I cannot support it.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. To the motion, Mr. Yakeleya.
Just a quick note there, Mr. Chair. The motion, again, recommends that the government increase its allocations to fund the e-learning. I heard some pretty successful stories and especially for our small communities to move people into the required educational careers that they want to go into with full confidence that they’re getting the required courses. Of course, the funding is being looked at through the Beaufort-Delta District Education Council, and they’re looking beyond its regions, and I certainly agree with Mr. Menicoche on other regions taking full advantage of this type of initiative and that we start looking at avenues where our smaller communities can be under the same sort of level and on par with the larger regions who have some courses that we don’t have in our small communities. I do support the reallocation of this type of funding. It’s a very good initiative, and I certainly know that the Sahtu people, if this ever happens, it would be beneficial if Members spoke on it. So I’d like to add on my last comment to ask for a recorded vote.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. To the motion. Minister Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. I am fully in agreement with the Members that we should be investing in e-learning, and that is exactly what we had done last week since we have contributed $500,000 to the BDEC. This motion is asking for additional funds which will be addressed through the Education Renewal and Innovation, through that action plan. This will definitely be a topic of discussion, and at this point, the Cabinet cannot support this initiative since we are already moving forward on this.
Thank you, Minister Lafferty. To the motion.
Question has been called. Members have asked for a recorded vote. Will all those in favour, please stand.
Mr. Moses, Mr. Bromley, Mr. Yakeleya, Mr. Hawkins, Ms. Bisaro.
All those opposed, please stand.
Mr. Menicoche, Mr. Blake, Mr. Beaulieu, Mr. Abernethy, Mr. Miltenberger, Mr. McLeod – Yellowknife South, Mr. Lafferty, Mr. Ramsay, Mr. McLeod – Inuvik Twin Lakes.
All those abstaining, please stand.
Results of the motion: five in favour, nine opposed, no abstentions. The motion is defeated.
---Defeated
Committee, we are on page 10-17. Moving on with questions, I have Mr. Blake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a couple comments on this page.
Mr. Hawkins. You’ve raised what I consider an erroneous point of order. The Member in question was indeed within the purview of the vote. No point of order. Mr. Blake, you have the floor.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Moving on here, I just wanted to commend the department for looking into the junior kindergarten. That’s really needed in the communities. Over the last couple of years we’ve seen an increase in the demand to increase our grade levels, and I think that this is one way to start tackling that issue. I know it is a real challenge in the smaller communities to keep our grade levels up because of the shortage of teachers compared to students. A lot of times we have one teacher for two or three grades and that is very challenging, I have heard from a lot of the teachers in larger centres or even in the South. I had the opportunity to actually go to school down there when I was in junior high and high school, so I know it is a huge difference when you compare our education here in the Territories. I will use myself as an example. You know up to Grade 7 I had a 90 percent average, pretty good marks, until I went to Edmonton. It’s very different. The amount of homework you get in the South compared to here in the North is overwhelming when you don’t expect that, but it is a good experience. You also have a lot of other subjects down there, like automotives, as I mentioned earlier, and art, drama, all these different types of extra credits you can get. You know, that’s something we have to aim towards here in the North. I know it will take time, but I think we could get there.
One thing that the grade levels don’t show is how many of our students here in the North experience. That is one thing that I noticed, going to school in the South, our students here experience a lot more in their young lives than students do in the South, whether it’s hunting, camping, trapping, that is a way of life and teaches them how to survive, and you can’t put a grade level on that. I think, as they move on in their years, that will help out a lot. I think we are on the right track here.
One thing that I hoped to see and I would like to ask the question to the Minister, I see languages on here and I noticed in some of the presentations we have received, we are supposed to have an Inuvialuktun instructor in Aklavik and I just wanted to know where the department was with that. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. The funding that we contribute to the school boards and also to the language centres, based on that, the programming and also the resources that are required. What the Member is alluding to is very specific to that riding and I can gather that information as to the status. I don’t have that detail of information at this point, if that individual has been hired to deal with the language itself, but we are investing tremendously in the language centre and I just indicated that we are providing additional funding to Aboriginal governments to deal with those matters at hand because, again, they are the language experts and we need to learn from them as well. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Blake.
Mr. Chairman, that’s all the questions I have right now, thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Blake. Again, committee, just for reference point, we are still on 10-17. Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to advise that when it comes to junior kindergarten in the communities, I have had constituents that are very supportive of it and it is something that we need in the communities, especially small communities, because the stats for progress in writing and reading is so low. In fact, it is so low that the department actually cancelled those Alberta achievement tests, but that is another story.
I certainly support junior kindergarten. I think that will give our younger preschool children a leg up as they enter our schooling system. It’s too bad someone already took the work Head Start, but that certainly will give our children a head start and the results will play out in about a year, after one year is up of operations.
Much concern has been in the paper about junior kindergarten, but that’s all Yellowknife-driven. That’s a fight for three years from now when they actually have to implement it. They’re doing the communities first, so yes, it is raising their ire, but that’s certainly something that can be dealt with and I believe that they will resolve it. I just want to say that, to anybody listening out there, the Junior Kindergarten Program is not bad; it’s a good thing.
Another issue that was raised, and perhaps the Minister can comment, is about the library in Fort Simpson. I have been pressing for that for many, many years. I certainly wouldn’t mind an update about that and how the department has been helpful.
When it comes to reductions, like, a point five position in a small community really affects the school. I just want to ask the Minister, is there a minimum or a baseline that we use to support small communities where if attendance is lower that we won’t reduce it past a certain amount of teachers for a school? I’ll just ask those questions, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. If I can reflect on the library in Fort Simpson, we have been dealing with that for quite some time now. Even with the community council, town council, we are trying to find an allocation for all those materials. There has been a lot of discussion between two of the departments, my department and also the community. We continue to have that dialogue and there are some funding allocations through various libraries and I do have here Fort Simpson, $52,600 being proposed here, but I’ll be giving more of the latest status to the Member on the Fort Simpson library and where it’s at. The community has been involved and will provide the status.
The point five reduction that the Member is referring to, those are just some of the stats that we work with the district education council and authorities, based on enrollment. We provide funding based on enrollment and they decide where they should be hiring, whether it be EAs or staff teachers or custodians or administrators. It’s at their discretion, but at the same time, I did commit in this House that we are currently reviewing the formula funding based on enrollment versus the needs of the community, so those are discussions we are currently having and I think this will somewhat satisfy the Member’s concern. A point five in a small community is a big hit for the community; I totally understand that. That’s why one of the pillars of education renewal is to focus on small communities. Mahsi, Mr. Chairman.
I certainly look forward to the update from the Minister, because the library is still called a resource centre. It’s kind of a shame when our children can go to the library and they cannot really look at books and sign out books. They can do it on-line, but it’s kind of cumbersome for the younger children to do that. It will be a good thing once we can establish a full library in Fort Simpson.
One of the other suggestions that I did make several years ago was to classify it as a regional library and put it in legislation. It then becomes a funded facility, but that’s one of the ways that we can do it, but I’m glad that the department continues to support the community of Fort Simpson and work towards an expanded and better facility that can actually house books and children can look at them. In the news, it’s quite critical that our children are spending way too much time on-line, i-Pads and that kind of stuff. Getting back to just having books around is a good thing. Right now in Fort Simpson, we’re right in that crux where children are depending on i-Pads and other media just to do their reading when the way you stimulate imagination is by reading and imagining as opposed to visual learning. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. I didn’t quite hear a question there, but I’ll let the Minister reply. Minister Lafferty.
