Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier I talked about just getting back to the basics of governance here in the Northwest Territories. My question is to the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations.
Here in the North, the NWT, or Denendeh, there are about 43,000 people that make this their home. We have the circumstance of where we have settled areas and unsettled regions. In negotiations there is a perception of the NWT that the NWT is almost a colonial arm or extension of the federal government.
What is the Government of the Northwest Territories doing to promote the resolution of land claims and self-government agreements in the NWT? Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Nadli. The honourable Premier, Mr. McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Government of the Northwest Territories has been actively participating in all land claims and self-government negotiations. We recently reviewed all of our mandates under these agreements, in order to help facilitate the negotiations. We have also been taking the approach where we have been wanting to improve our working relationships with Aboriginal governments. For those Aboriginal governments that are still negotiating land claims, we have approached them and indicated that we are interested in working with them, and also indicated to them that we would be in a much better position if we could work together and approach the Government of Canada to facilitate these negotiations. I think that we have had a number of discussions with the Dehcho First Nation, and the Akaitcho, as well as the Metis Nation of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am glad the Minister highly puts significance on maintaining a workable relationship with First Nations that have unsettled areas, that haven’t settled their land claims yet. Recently the Premier and Cabinet have openly stated that they are very close to finalizing a Devolution Agreement-in-Principle. What is this government doing to prepare communities for devolution? Mahsi.
Our devolution team, and as well as respected members of the Dene communities that have been contracted, have been to every community in the Northwest Territories to explain devolution, except for some communities in the Akaitcho. I think there are maybe one or two communities in the Deh Cho that we still have to get to. But for the most part, we’ve been to every region and every community to explain devolution. Thank you.
Mahsi. I think what I’m seeing at this point with the recent return trip from Ottawa, I think the North has reached a point where we’re looking at the NWT as an iconic north star. It’s a beacon of hope and potential, especially with the GNWT working with First Nations alongside the First Nations and non-Aboriginal peoples.
I understand that the previous Assembly undertook a vision and exercise toward a common vision for the NWT. It’s about basically building upon the political future of the NWT. What elements of this work have been carried forward into the current initiatives that we’re seeing? Mahsi.
I guess the practice for every Assembly is it builds on the work of the previous Assemblies, and we have done that. That report has helped inform us as we move forward in negotiating devolution. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Nadli.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My final question is we carry the principle of consensus highly, and that’s what makes this government very unique. So as we advance toward a final resolution of the Devolution Agreement, will this government and this Cabinet ensure that the principle of consensus guide the finalization of the Devolution Agreement? Mahsi.
Thank you. We are a consensus government, and absolutely, we will work under that premise. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Premier. The Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Dan McTeague in today’s Yellowknifer says basically the price of fuel in Yellowknife should be around $1.16. He highlights about a 22 cent difference that who knows where that money is really going. He emphasizes about a two cent difference that should exist between Yellowknife and Hay River, not 17 cents as of today or 26 cents as of yesterday.
So my question is for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, but rightly so, as the Minister who is responsible for consumer protection. So my question quite clearly is this: Would the Minister be willing to take the necessary steps to delegate his department to set a process in place that develops fuel regulations to protect Northerners? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We’re well aware of the article in the paper and the fact that many residents here in Yellowknife have an issue with the price of gasoline in Yellowknife. If we were to get some concern from the general public, if they have specific questions that they might want answered, I would advise them to contact consumer affairs, and we will look at them on a case-by-case basis. Thank you.
Thank you. What the Minister basically said is the public has to go and complain and complain, but the problem is quite obvious. Members can speak quite loudly and clearly.
What is stopping this Minister from taking some action to show the consumer that they actually care about the fact that they work hard for those paycheques? Because right now what I’m hearing is let’s do nothing until they really complain and we have to. Thank you.
Thank you. Make no mistake about it, Municipal and Community Affairs does care, and that’s why we have the consumer affairs department. This is private enterprise, and prices are set by the operators here in the capital. If we were to have to try and regulate gas prices, it would be a long process. However, I can commit to the Member that we will do some due diligence here, do a little bit of research, and try to see what we can come up with. But the fact that if we had to go to regulation, I mean if it’s a long-drawn-out process, I’m sure it would take an amount of time. Thank you.
Thank you. I’m going to acknowledge and thank the Minister for that openness to take a look at it, but I will disagree with him in the sense of the process and problem. New Brunswick, PEI, as well as several other places do this. So hence there is a model that exists. The question is: What does he actually mean he’ll do when he says they’ll take a look at this? Of course, he also has said he’s well aware of this problem highlighted in the newspaper. So the fact is we’re being disadvantaged, if not taken advantage of, by retailers. There is a public role in this, Mr. Speaker, and I expect the Minister to take that full responsibility of being aware of it. Thank you.
Thank you. We do take the concerns of the public very seriously here. Again, I pointed out that there is a process that we have to go through, and I’m sure the governments that the Member had mentioned just didn’t do it in a day. There are opportunities for us here in the Legislative Assembly to get the message out there, and by the Member asking questions is one of them. There’s also an opportunity to move a motion to have us have a look at this. But regardless, we are monitoring this, and we will continue to monitor it and see what options might be available to Municipal and Community Affairs. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. PEI does this. New Brunswick does this. Why does the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs need a push or a shove from a motion or Member’s statement to do the right thing? Mr. Speaker, why doesn’t Municipal and Community Affairs do the right thing on their own? They know what the problem is; they could do it, so why don’t they?
Thank you. I have committed to the Member that I will have a look at this and see what options are available to us. Again, it may be a long-drawn-out, expensive process, but I have committed to having a look at this to see what options might be available to our department as to what we can do. Again, I’m expecting we’ll probably run into some reluctance on the operators’ part. But again, it’s consumer affairs protection, and it’s what we need to keep in mind here. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d just like to follow up with my colleague. The information I have is that gas prices are dropping in many parts of the Northwest Territories, and inexplicably they’re not dropping in Yellowknife to parallel those drops. There’s no explanation for that. This is clearly unfair to the consumer and raises questions.
Will the Minister find out and explain to us why that’s happening? I don’t think we should need a motion on this or anything like that. Constituents are bringing this to our attention. We’re bringing it to the Minister and saying, yo, what will you do to get after this. So to start with, will you find out why the prices are not dropping here when they’re dropping elsewhere? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have committed to doing that. Thank you.
I didn’t hear that commitment before. I heard that we’re going to take a long time to look at this and so on. So I’d like some specifics.
Will the Minister find out if there’s some sort of collusion or price-fixing amongst businesses that are selling in Yellowknife that explains why the price is not adjusting with the price elsewhere in Canada and the Northwest Territories? Thank you.
Those are some very serious comments, and if there is a belief out there that there is that happening, then I think we need to notify the appropriate parties.
Again, I have committed before that we would look at it, and I mentioned moving a motion. I was just pointing out some options that are available to us as a Legislative Assembly. However, I have committed that we would look at it. But as far as the Member’s specific looking into that, I mean, I’m not sure where our jurisdiction is. I would have to find that out too.
Thanks for the comments from the Minister. These are questions being raised by the public. I’m not making any accusations. I think it would be great for the Minister to do what he can to clarify the situation and get some answers to the public.
I guess I would ask what consumer affairs, the Minister’s department, can do to help people answer this question and make sure they’re getting fair treatment from the gas distributors in Yellowknife compared to elsewhere in the Northwest Territories.
I will have a discussion with our folks over at Consumer Affairs in our department to see what options are available to us. The Member pointed out some of the concerns that were raised in the public and we’ve heard those complaints. I will have a discussion with the folks over at the department to see what our options are and I will communicate that to the Members.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be quick. I do want to return to the fuel question and build upon what Mr. Bromley had said. I want to stress, earlier I did appreciate the answer by the MACA Minister and I think credit is deserved where credit is due. He did agree to do this. He’s now listening closer to my question because I gave him credit.
The issue is, yes, in regulation those considerations take time, but one of the problems is today. Does the Minister have powers within his scope as Minister, who does do consumer protection, to be able to look at this situation? Because if you read the Yellowknifer today, it’s like everybody’s pointing fingers at each other and that tells me it’s very suspect. What type of powers under his authority as the MACA Minister can he do today to help the consumer?
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Robert McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We’ve heard some of the comments over there about the operators here in Yellowknife and there was a comment of price fixing, but actually with the issue being raised in the House here it may bring attention to it and I think they may have a look at how the prices are set, because I did read the article and I heard one of the comments from one of the gentlemen that was interviewed on how if one did it then the rest of them would lower their prices. I think the fact that we’re raising it here in a public forum might go a long way and have them look at how their prices are set and go from there and see if anything changes again.
I’ve committed a couple of times that we will have a look at it. I would have to do a bit of research to see what authority we have, because this is a private market that’s not regulated by the government. I would have to do a bit of research. I will communicate my findings to the Members.
Although I realize there’s House protection, I still will take great skill in pointing this out not to draw unfair attention, but under the context of price fixing and anti-corruptive activities they certainly are illegal under the federal Competition Act. That is a reality. The way you read the paper is one is waiting for the other. It doesn’t sound like they’re colluding in the same way or whispering what are you going to set this week, but it does seem to point out the fact that there is some weirdness how they’re working together and one’s not doing anything without the other.
Back to the other question which was what powers under your authority do you have today to influence change?
I would have to find out to see if I have any powers to make a decision today, because as the Minister responsible for Consumer Affairs, if I were to say we want the price on par with the rest of the NWT, do I have that power? I need to find that out before I make statements like that. I have a bit of research to do here. I’ve committed to a couple of Members that I intend on doing that and that I will return to the Members with any information that I may have gathered.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are to the Minister of PWS, the Minister responsible for petroleum products. In the last session I asked the Minister if he would look at some way that would help out the hunters and trappers with the pricing of fuel in our small communities. I want to ask the Minister if he had done some research as to if that’s possible to give a break to the trappers and hunters in the small communities on the pricing of their fuel.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister responsible for Public Works and Services, Mr. Glen Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated previously, the way the gas prices are determined in communities where Public Works and Services is responsible for the fuel, is we buy the fuel, we ship the fuel, then we add a little bit of profit on top of that for the people that are distributing it in the communities, and then there are, obviously, taxes.
I did take the Member’s question and I did share the comments in my… I did have a conversation with ITI. I haven’t got an answer on that. What I will do is commit to having another discussion with the Minister of ITI to see what there is. Given the gas prices that we have in the small communities, the only place to move is taxes, which is an area that we can’t move on, or the profit for the local vendors, which I don’t think anybody wants us to move on in the small communities. We will certainly have that conversation.
I appreciate the Minister’s flexibility to look at ways that we could look at and that there’s no guarantee. I want to ask the Minister, there are two pricings in our small community: one with government, and non-government. I’m asking that because the government rate is lower than the non-government, I believe, that the hunters and trappers can use that system. I’m just asking if that’s a possibility with Cabinet if they can go that route, specifically for trappers and hunters in our communities.
The difference in prices between government and non-government users of the fuel in the small communities is basically the GST. The Government of the Northwest Territories does not pay GST but everybody else is going to be required to pay GST. We’ll have that discussion, but at this point I’m not sure that we’re going to be able to reduce or eliminate GST for our non-government customers.
If the Minister could look at that with his colleague and find ways that it’s possible for our hunters and trappers to be covered under that structure of pricing, then it would be greatly appreciated by hunters and trappers that they would buy their fuel at a reduced cost. It costs quite a bit to operate a trapline in our communities. If the Minister could look at that once again, I would appreciate it.
Absolutely I’ll have those discussions with the Minister of ITI, but I don’t want to set any false expectations. Not paying GST is not likely going to be a possibility.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like the Minister to look at another word we should scrap, if possible, out of our dictionary and look at the possibilities. Possibly look at all the different types of avenues as to how to help our trappers and hunters in our communities where the price is extraordinarily high for them. We encourage traditional economies. I’d ask the Minister if he would possibly look at the possibilities that this government can do to help our hunters and trappers.
