Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Department of Transportation, Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. In the previous day’s deliberations in Committee of the Whole, I was asking some questions on Highway No. 7 and the plan for the department to deal with the conditions on Highway No. 7, fixing it up. I know that some of the issues have been because of lack of capital dollars and I continue to remain frustrated that there were zero dollars allocated in the 2012-13 Capital Budget as it stands.
Another issue that I do have is that there are appropriations in the interim budget and in our budget for operations and maintenance of Highway No. 7, but myself, my constituents and communities continue to be frustrated that the expenditures are done in August and September during the rainy season. It’s late in the season and I’ve continued being at the table; I’ve been in the House saying look, we’ve got to spend the money early. I get verbal commitments that the money will be expended earlier so that we can address some of the highway conditions and get it done early in the season. But that’s been falling on deaf ears.
So, once again, in yesterday’s deliberations I asked for a plan for Highway No. 7. I’m pleased that I did get a note from the Finance Minister’s office, but the plan that they indicate for me for Highway No. 7 is to monitor conditions during the spring, and that’s not something that either me or my constituents wanted to hear. I’d like to know when will they be constructing, what will they be constructing, and I’d like to have a firm written commitment that they’ll do this construction early in the season.
I’ve been here almost nine years, I’ve been fighting for Highway No. 7 for that long and that was the biggest concern out of Fort Liard and Fort Simpson, my whole riding of Nahendeh, anybody that travels down Highway No. 7. It affects our tourism years. Over the years we used to have busloads of tourists that would go to Fort Simpson. That has declined. In fact, the recent statistics from ITI show that tourism has declined in the Nahendeh region and if there’s anything that adds some economic stimulus to any region it’s tourism, and that cannot be happening when Highway No. 7 is known to be impassable.
People from Fort Nelson, people even from the Yellowknife tourism office, Hay River, Enterprise, they all advise people not to use Highway No. 7 every year and that takes away from us. It’s a real shame that Highway No. 7 has that kind of a reputation. In fact, talking with one of the guys in Simpson that has international contacts, even people from Germany phone him up about this time of year or else in early spring about the condition of Highway No. 7 as we get lots of European tourists and they do want to make the trip up to our northern territories and one of the ways to do it, if they do want to access the Nahanni National Park, a lot of them do it fly-in, but a lot of them drive in as well. Once they know about Highway No. 7 it scares them away.
So the reasons are many that we should pay attention to this highway and I’m frustrated with this government for their inattention to Highway No. 7. There’s zero dollars for capital in 2012-2013 and then we’ve got our interim budget appropriations. Like I said, I want to know the plan for Highway No. 7. There are some carry-over dollars from last year, but the key is to spend it early in prime construction season, and I don’t see that. I’ve got no commitment about that and it’s equally frustrating. So I’d like the Finance Minister or the Transportation Minister to give me some commitment, some written commitment that they’ll spend these funds early.
Every year about April or May Highway No. 7 does collapse. So we’ve got to be prepared for that and I would like to know how they’re going to be prepared for it other than monitoring it, because I really believe that we need a plan and we’re here early enough, I’m raising it early enough that I believe that we can come up with an adequate plan that the roads are open. If there’s an issue, then it can be addressed right away. I’d like to know the plan about that, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Member is correct; the capital budget was passed in November and it was a very modest capital budget as we are all aware going into the deliberations given our fiscal circumstances. We do have some plans in the midterm to address that as we’ve been discussing in this House over the last number of days.
In regard to the specific timing and sequence of the use of the O and M money this coming spring, Madam Chair, with your concurrence I’d ask Minister Ramsay to speak to those specific program questions. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Ramsay.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I appreciate the Member’s concerns about Highway No. 7 and the condition they’re in. Also, the condition as it relates to tourism in the Deh Cho, in his riding, it’s a situation where we have approved a capital plan. We are having some difficulty trying to come up with a long-term plan, which will be required for Highway No. 7, but we are going to need to do that. It needs to be reconstructed. Most of that highway will need some substantial reconstruction in the neighbourhood of $250 million. Those dollars we just do not have today. I think going forward we need to try to find a way to get some capital dollars in a substantial way into Highway No. 7, but currently that’s just not the case. The Member has talked of it and I know the Finance Minister has talked to this, as well, about the fact that we’re carrying over approximately $1.3 million. I don’t have a crystal ball, but that money will undoubtedly be spent early in the season and if need be, we are going to have to come forward with some type of emergency or special supplementary funding if an emergency does arise, and I think that’s something that we have to live with. We just don’t have any other choice.
So we’re going to have to watch things closely as they play themselves out, and I just want to assure the Member that we need to find a long-term plan to address the condition of Highway No. 7 in a meaningful way and that is going to include a substantial amount of capital dollars to begin the reconstruction of that road. That hopefully can happen here in the next few years that we can chart a course forward for Highway No. 7. But again, we need the dollars, Madam Chair. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Mr. Menicoche.
MR. MENICOCHE:
We approved the capital budget in November for the last few years actually, but still last August they were tendering out a contract to chipseal Highway No. 7, which I was very happy to hear about, but they were tendering it out in July. What’s going on? Why are they tendering it out in July? We gave them approval in November.
So that’s the kind of frustrations that I’d like to bring to the table today, Madam Chair. When it comes to this O and M budget, whatever money is there I want to ask and get a commitment from the Minister of Transportation that, yes, they will start construction early in the new year. I don’t want to hear soft commitments. I’ve been hearing that for eight years and that’s not good enough for me anymore. We’ve got to take care of the needs of Highway No. 7.
I know that our government is spending lots of time putting the Inuvik-Tuk highway on the Prime Minister’s lips. He’s got to hear Highway No. 7 as well. That’s equally important to our North. It’s beneficial to our North. We’ve got a couple of major infrastructure private sector projects in the region that will depend on Highway No. 7. The Enbridge oil spill depends on Highway No. 7. They’re moving all their product down there. It will be in even poorer shape when springtime rolls around there.
I’d like our government and the Department of Transportation to start paying attention to Highway No. 7 in my riding, and that begins by the commitment and the action of working on that highway early in the season and early enough. Like I said, your commitment to monitor and respond to road conditions as they need is just not good enough. We need firm commitments. We need action, not words. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. I allowed a little bit of extension beyond the 10 minutes there. We can come back to you after if you like, but next on the list I have Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to respond to Member Menicoche’s concerns once again. We are hopeful that the $12 million that we have spent over the past four years on Highway No. 7 will help to address past problems that we’ve seen with Highway No. 7. But going forward, the reality is we have $1.3 million. That’s all we have for next year. If the Member wants a commitment that that money will be spent early in the season, that’s something we can look at. My belief is it will be spent early in the season and we will undoubtedly require more money if the road conditions are such that we need to come back for supplementary funding to address the concerns.
It is a tough situation, but as I mentioned before, I want to work with the Member and this government to try to come up with a long-term plan to reconstruct Highway No. 7, and that’s going to include some substantial capital dollars that today we just do not have. We have to try to find that and get that work done. I agree with the Member on that. Thank you.
Thank you. Next I have on my list Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a few specific issues on transportation and I have one comment on the Deh Cho Bridge.
I want to go straight into the Sahtu concerns with the proposed funding here that we are looking at. The first one has to do with the O and M on the Bear River ice crossing at Deline. I received an e-mail from the regional office in Fort Simpson and the ice crossing at Great Bear Lake is at 30,000 kilograms. Hopefully by the end of this day and further days to come, the weight category will go up to 45,000 kilograms within days.
My question to the Minister is that people in Deline also need to support themselves, the heavy equipment and construction companies that are there, and they certainly can’t put their heavy equipment to work because the weight limits are not safe and it’s not advisable for them to cross on the Great Bear Lake. I’m asking the Minister if there are any further types of machinery with your O and M that could be brought to Deline to increase their weight limits so that these heavy equipment machines can be used to work in the Tulita district, the oil and gas exploration. They are losing a lot of money in Deline.
The ice crossing at Great Bear Lake is a concern for the people, for the businesspeople there. They also looked at in the plans for future roads. They are looking at a route that would go around the lake so that would cut out a lot of concerns for the people. That is something that I want to raise with the Minister.
The other issue I want to raise with the Minister is a portable licence machine. Some of the communities such as Colville Lake do not have that type of service. They have to drive to Norman Wells in the wintertime, and that is about a six-hour drive, or in the summer they have to fly the machine, when available, to Colville Lake. People would like to see this portable machine being brought to the communities on specific times in the regulations as they require them to receive that service.
I was in Fort Good Hope in September and people were coming up to me and saying we need to get our licence updated or we need to get our vehicles registered, and there were some problems about having somebody come in from Norman Wells into Fort Good Hope. They couldn’t wait, so some of them actually had to fly to Norman Wells, get the licence, make an appointment, stay overnight and fly back. It cost them $300 or $400 to get their vehicle registered. I know the department made several attempts to try to get the people into Fort Good Hope. It just didn’t work. I want to see what the Minister can do to strengthen this service in our communities and see if within the department they could make that service more, how do you say, the community said the contract to do this is not very high and it costs them more, it costs them more to operate it, so more beneficial, I guess, to the organization that’s running the road licence program. That’s something that I want to add on to my concerns.
The third one is I want to ask the Minister if he would look at the operations of Transportation. I’ve raised it over a number of years that the Sahtu now should be considered as a regional office. The winter roads and the highways come from the Fort Simpson regional office. The airports come from the Inuvik regional office. We have outside people dictating or have the authority within the region. I think we have done enough and I think it’s time that the Sahtu has its own regional office. I’m hoping that the Minister can look at this request to see if the Sahtu can begin to have more autonomy, moving away from the Simpson and Inuvik offices and have something in the Sahtu. Sahtu people have been telling me that they always have to wait for Inuvik or Fort Simpson to give the approval for something that’s happening right there, and it just doesn’t make sense anymore. That’s a strong request I have for the Minister and I will be following it up as we go on with the life of this government here.
My last matter for the Sahtu would be if the department can look at moving some of the personnel. The Minister and I had some private discussions on this and I’m not going to get too far into the details about moving some personnel people into the Sahtu. That makes sense where it can be more efficient, more effective. We have computers, we have a fax system and we have people on the ground that would start looking at our projects in the Sahtu. We are grateful for what we receive under Transportation. I want to ask if we could look at some type of initiative to transfer some of the personnel from headquarters into the Sahtu where it would make more sense to us. It may not make sense to the department, but it makes more sense in the Sahtu.
My last comment would be with the Deh Cho Bridge. I would like the Minister to, in the time that we have, look at some of the explanation of the interest payments that we are setting up and having with the Deh Cho Bridge project there. Those would be my comments.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. In regard to the issue of ice roads, at the risk of possibly stating the obvious, there is no money in this interim appropriation for ice roads. The ice road money will come in through the regular main estimates in May/June and it will be targeted for the winter of 2012-13.
In regard to the specific questions about licensing, the DOT operation in the Sahtu becoming a regional centre, the possible move of personnel from Transportation to the Sahtu and possibly the Deh Cho Bridge, I will ask the chair for your indulgence to let the Minister of Transportation answer those. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for the opportunity to respond to Mr. Yakeleya on his concerns.
Starting at the beginning, I think what we are seeing in the Sahtu – and I know the Member is aware of this – is when there is resource activity and development in that region, some of the benefits come in improved infrastructure. We saw the capital involvement of industry there and what it has done for an ice road in the Sahtu. We need to be looking at opportunities to work with industry to get more of that happening in the Sahtu. Given the activity that is happening in the Sahtu, not just this year but next year, I think there is a lot of likelihood that improved transportation infrastructure is going to be a very large concern as we go forward.
On the portable ice machine or icing machine, I think again industry may play a role in partnering with us on the availability of that technology and in getting that there. I agree with what the Member was saying about equipment located in a community like Deline not being able to get to the work. That is an issue that goes back to the possibility of even constructing some type of all-weather road from the community of Deline to Bennett Field. That is something, too, I know that is of interest to the community of Deline and something that as we move forward again, given all the activity there, that this could be possible down the road.
The Member also talked about Fort Good Hope and people having some difficulty getting registration and licensing. Maybe I can ask the Member to give me the specifics on that case, and I would be more than happy to get him a response on that and how we can improve service delivery in the communities.
The other question was looking at moving regional operations into the Sahtu. I know we are going to be going through the business planning process here in short order. That is an issue that can be brought up by the Member and the Regular Members as we move through the business planning process. Again, I think we have to look at opportunities to ensure that we are delivering efficient service and program delivery around the territory. That is something that we could potentially look at as we move forward. Again, I think we can examine that further.
As far as moving some personnel into the Sahtu, again I think we would have to see which positions they were. Obviously, that would be of great importance. Again, going through the business planning process we will get to see a little bit more of how things work. The Members will be able to have a good dialogue with myself and the other Ministers. We look forward to those discussions on possible areas where we can enhance the programs and services that we provide out in the regions. I look forward to the opportunity to work with the Member in doing that. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Next on my list I have Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I have two points I would like to raise with the Department of Transportation. The first one involves an activity of your department that includes destruction of migratory birds and their habitat, which is illegal against the International Migratory Bird Treaty that Canada has signed with the United States. I think that is well known by the department. The Environment Canada I believe has tried working with standards for provinces and territories on when they should do right-of-way clearing to avoid the destruction of migratory birds and their habitat. It is a seasonal habitat so it is not so much they can’t do that as much as when they do it.
I have constituents who volunteer their expertise as part of a North American-wide network of breeding birds surveys that have documented the decline, the amazing decline of songbirds in Canada and boreal forest birds included. They do these in the same areas and the same dates year to year to year. Unfortunately, when they were doing last year along the Ingraham Trail, Highway No. 4, they did the surveys, and on their return they watched the very habitat they just surveyed and documented, actual nests and birds being destroyed, mowed and mulched. That was raised with the department. The department said yes, that is a legitimate concern. They would try and do a better job of that.
I see in the proposed budget for this year the Department of Transportation has dollars identified for contract for that work again. This is an interim budget to cover April, May and June, which just happens to be the peak of the migratory birds’ breeding season in this area. I am aware of no cost to delay that work until August or September. I would ask the department is there a plan to delay that work. I know some contracts are listed in this quarter-year’s budget because they will go further on in the year, but this contract should not be let during the peak of the breeding season. It is illegal. I would ask that I get some assurance that that will not be done.
The second aspect, I had a meeting last night with the Yellowknives Dene First Nation Council and with respect of the Detah road, they are not aware of the current status of funding on that project. I realize it is a capital item, but my understanding is that we are looking for support for that project. In the meantime there is probably a considerable amount of work that could be done under operations, such as clearing and so on, working with the Mine Training Society and so on. Can I expect that has been done in the past two or three years? Can I expect that this budget will include some support for that type of work during first quarter of 2012-13? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Madam Chair. To the first point the Member brings up with migratory birds. I will talk to the officials with the department and find out the game plan going forward on when that contract may be let and if it can be put off to later in the year, I would appreciate the Member’s concerns and I’ll raise those with the department.
On the second question that was related to the access road and any further work that was going to take place there, I believe there is some more work that is going to be required. It’s, I believe, about $7.5 million and we’ll have to try to get this funding through the capital planning process to complete the project as we move forward. We can look forward to that. Thank you.
I appreciate the Minister’s response. On the migratory bird side of things, I think the hope of Environment Canada is that they would continue with an operating standards approach rather than having to permit things, but apparently there have been enough problems with jurisdictions that they are now contemplating a requirement for permits and so on, so they can have a more hands-on management of that. So I think there is an opportunity here to adhere to this and avoid that sort of more onerous situation.
With the Detah road, I realize it’s a capital project and I was really wondering if there was something that could be done under operations such as the clearing of rights-of-way and working with the Mine Training Society. I think we’ve done that sort of thing the last few years associated with the project, but I just wanted to ask if this budget might contemplate the possibility of following up on that opportunity.
Again, we’ve had to identify some funding to allow that type of activity to be carried out. It’s not saying that it couldn’t happen. Maybe working with the Yellowknives Dene, Deton’Cho, there could be a possibility over the next season to do something. I don’t want to say no. I think if we can identify some dollars, we may be able to do a little more work out there, but... I’ll just leave it at that, Madam Chair. Thanks.
That right-of-way clearing would be after the breeding season for migratory birds, of course. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to follow up on Highway No. 7 here. I know the Minister had indicated in his last response to me that he would look at expending monies early, but I think I’m looking for a firm commitment that the department be serious about Highway No. 7 and spend the money early in the new year.
I’ll probably take the opportunity to comment on the $1.3 million of capital carry-overs and also I’d like the Minister to confirm that those projects will go ahead early in the new year. Like I said, I’m not happy with commitments anymore. I want this in writing. The Minister has to tell his department to get that work done early. I’ve got to see it done early. My people have to see it done early. That’s the only way we build trust and start believing in the government again. Actions go further than words. That’s the kind of thing I would like to see. That’s what I’d like to hear from the Minister. That’s what I’d like to hear from this government when it comes to Highway No. 7 this year, this spring, because the road collapses every May, it’s only around the corner that they will get out there early with their men and equipment and with the capital dollars that we continue to approve. It’s got to be spent early; the equipment has to be out there. We shouldn’t be waiting until August/September again to be working on those roads. Those roads get shut down for weeks at a time in the springtime.
That’s what I’m saying here today. I’ll continue to recommend to my colleagues that we not pass this interim appropriation until I get satisfaction and the satisfaction to this House that you pay attention to Highway No. 7. It’s equally important as the Inuvik-Tuk road. I know that ended up on our list of priorities, but that doesn’t mean we stop working on other areas and other highways in our great territory here. I’d like to look for that commitment and ask the Minister to commit to me in writing that our forces will be out there this spring in preparation of the spring thaw, in preparation of Highway No. 7 collapsing and to make sure that we begin early.
As well, part of our federal engagement strategy is to talk about the Inuvik-Tuk highway, but you’ve got to talk about Highway No. 7 as well. You’ve got to talk about our other infrastructure needs in the North and that’s the kind of level of interest that I want to see from this government and from the Minister of Transportation as we move forward in this fiscal year. I know we’ve been red flagged for any future capital projects, but in reality, even if we didn’t get any money at the end of this March, we won’t be talking about capital expenditures until June/July by the time we get it all sorted out. The tension is today and it’s not tomorrow. That’s what I want the department to consider, the Minister to consider and our government to consider. We cannot wait until next year to be spending money. We’ve got to come up with some kind of plan, some kind of action plan that’s firm and solid, that gives us a base and a base on that highway as well.
I realize the implications. I know they’ve done an engineering study that I have yet to see, that’s about a million dollars a kilometre, maybe more, to reconstruct Highway No. 7, but we’ve got to start. We had started already. We’ve done about 20 kilometres near Fort Liard and we’ve got some chipsealing that was going to be done last year and that’s the chipsealing I was talking about. We approved the budget in November, but they are tendering this thing out in July. What’s going on? The department did the wisest thing I’ve ever seen. They’ve actually tendered it out, but they didn’t do the work. I commend them for that, but I cannot commend them for waiting until July to tender out appropriations we gave them in November.
So I’d like to know where that work is. I’d like the Minister to guarantee that the chipsealing will continue on Highway No. 7. I’d like to see a firm plan to spend this $1.3 million capital carry-overs in writing to me, as well as a firm commitment that men and equipment will be out there in springtime in anticipation of spring thaw and the annual Highway No. 7 spring collapse. It shouldn’t have to be there if we are prepared. We know it’s been happening. It’s been happening very severely for the last three or four years and having a plan to deal with Highway No. 7 by monitoring conditions is not good enough. I would like to hear a response from the Minister with regard to that. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to speak to the broader plan that we do have as a government. The Assembly is fully aware of the fiscal constraints we are operating under, but we will be spending $1.4 billion. We will be spending, all in, about $130 million on capital. We recognize that there is a far greater list of needs than resources. The whole focus of our negotiations from the borrowing limit is to be geared specifically to getting the ability and flexibility as a government to build and make strategic investments that will allow us to supplement our very modest capital plan. The intent is when that borrowing limit is agreed to, that that good fortune has to be carefully used. We have to stick to our fiscal plan, but it has to be able to raise all boats, not just one boat in one region, but it has to raise all boats. We recognize that. We commit to that and we will lay out that plan.
In regards to the very specific questions about committing to spend the $1.3 million early, I will turn that question to the Minister of Transportation, Madam Chair, with your permission.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, I do appreciate the Member’s concerns in regard to Highway No. 7. On the $1.3 million that we do have for this coming season, as I mentioned earlier, that money undoubtedly will be spent early in the season and if the Member wants a commitment that that will happen, I would be more than happy to get the department to get a letter together indicating that the $1.3 million earmarked for Highway No. 7 will indeed go into work on that highway as soon as possible in the season and not in July and August. So that’s something I believe that the department and I can make a commitment to the Member on.
What we can’t obviously commit to is future capital dollars that we just don’t have today. I wish I could make a commitment like that to the Member. All I can say is should more capital dollars free up, Highway No. 7 should be given priority for a number of reasons, and that’s something, again, I look forward to working with the Member on. It has far-reaching effects if we’re shutting that road down for extended periods of time and it’s unsafe and has to be closed down. Those are things we take seriously.
Again, we need to come up with a long-term plan, a reconstruction of that highway and it’s going to require a substantial amount of capital dollars that today we just do not have. Again, we need to work towards that. I agree with the Member.
We do have eight highways here in the Northwest Territories. We’re in the process of looking at the construction of a new highway between Inuvik and Tuktoyaktuk and I don’t want the Member or any other Members of this House thinking that just because we’re pursuing that means we’re taking our eye off other highways around the territory. I think we need to have balance and we need to have fairness. We do have a capital planning process that as we move forward, the needs and the priorities will be addressed in due course. That’s the reality that we’re living in today. But as far as a commitment on the $1.3 million, we can get that in writing to the Member. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Mr. Menicoche, anything further?
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I’m glad that the Minister wants to rise to the challenge and provide a written commitment. I’d like to see that, and with that I would recommend to my colleagues that with their support that I defer consideration of the Department of Transportation for another day until I get that written commitment from the department so I can continue to make the case once again that I get lots of money for Highway No. 7, but they never spend it. They’re always waiting until the end of the season, and that’s all I’m doing here today. I’m tired of hearing that yes, you’ll commit to spend it and you’ll do it early in the season. I’ve heard that eight years and I refuse to do it anymore on behalf of my constituents. I want to see that money spent early and I want to see it in writing.
I’m glad that the Minister will provide that and I’ve got no further comments on this other than a motion to defer continued consideration of this. I don’t know if the Members have any further comments on Transportation, Madam Chair. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Menicoche, did you wish to make a motion?
Yes, I did, but I didn’t know if my colleagues had any more comments on the Department of Transportation, but I do have a motion to defer consideration.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. I have a few comments here before we get to your motion. I wanted to raise the point with the Minister of Transportation. He alluded to the amount of oil and gas exploration that’s going to happen in the Sahtu, because of the land sales and the exploration that’s going to be happening up there for the next five to six years or longer depending on some decisions that will be made in this government or within the Sahtu region on oil and gas. It makes more sense to have a push for a permanent, established regional office of Transportation in the Sahtu. Speaking to the ITI people, we are going to see up to $70 million spent in the Sahtu this winter for one oil company to drill two wells and explore gas and do seismic. We are still talking about other companies coming up there.
This is supposed to be happening in the next five years or longer, with over half a billion dollars; close to $600 million is going to be spent in the Sahtu because of oil and gas. So I strongly urge the Minister if he would look within his department, talk to his colleagues and see if it makes sense to start establishing a permanent regional office in the Sahtu for Transportation.
I do appreciate the contractors on the winter road. They do a damn good job building the road and maintaining it with the support of the companies to make it a lot smoother. You will notice in our region where there is no oil and gas activity the roads are not quite as good as the ones the companies are using. People rely on those roads, they now are taking it for granted that it’s part of the government’s greater responsibility for safety and making a good road.
So I ask the Minister again, I urge strongly that this Cabinet look at steps to move it to another level while we have the economy in the Sahtu. I’m making a plea here to the department on this issue.
The Deline ice crossing at Bear Lake is an O and M issue. I know the infrastructure is coming later on, but again I’m making the plea that the Minister will look at this so people in Deline can have the opportunity to participate in the oil and gas development in the Sahtu area. Specifically the Tulita area because of the wait and the weather, we just aren’t able to do that to get heavy equipment over to areas possibly where they could be put to work. It’s a short time frame; three months. I’ve seen your work this winter, I’ve driven on the winter roads from Wrigley to the Wells and Tulita, I’ve driven on the Bear Lake road towards Deline and we’ve got to commend those contractors for doing good jobs on the road. So I want to say that.
The other issue I wanted to ask the Minister through the O and M budget here for 2012-13 is if he would look at the area up in the Mackenzie Mountains on the Canol Road between the Yukon and the Northwest Territories. The site is called Mile 222. That’s a site that has been used a lot by the Department of ENR for reporting of hunters and outfitters, but we also have Selwyn Resources now in that area and they have proposed to use that land for extracting large amounts of lead and zinc, but they also need to take that material out. They’re looking at a road in that area. So I want to ask the Minister if you ask this department if they have any type of old equipment that’s surplused, if they could somehow get that equipment to Mile 222 to maintain that road. It doesn’t take very much. I’ve talked to some of the people in Norman Wells. They say if we had equipment at 222 we could maintain that little stretch of road, which is still under the Northwest Territories highway system. It would help with the outfitters coming in. It won’t take much and it’s a good opportunity for tourism.
Maybe the Minister can talk to the ITI Minister and see if they can work together on this issue. More importantly, we have a huge opportunity with Selwyn Resources. They’re in the stages they want to come into production. When I read their report, they want to put a road on the Northwest Territories side to bring out the lead and zinc. That’s a lot of trucks a day they’re going to use to haul down to Watson Lake and then further south. It’s billions, Madam Chair. So I want to ask the Minister through his planning with his colleagues and the department here is looking at seeing if we could take some of this old equipment that’s in surplus and use it at Mile 222.
I want to bring those two points up to the Minister. We have a lot of activity right now in the Sahtu. The Minister is going to come and tour with me sometime. I’ve asked some other Ministers. One already came and the other one is planning to come shortly and look at it. Hopefully, we will see some of the activity. It’s booming, and people are happy and they’re working. People are doing their best to keep the roads in a safe manner. I’ve seen some work there, so I ask the Minister if he could look at that more closely and put some emphasis to the operations and maintenance of transportation.
I’d like to hear from the Minister on my previous comment on the interest payments on the Deh Cho Bridge. That’s it.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I certainly share the Member’s enthusiasm that’s taking place in the Sahtu and in his riding. It is very nice to see equipment moving, people working and people happy. I think that’s a direct result of the investment there by the companies across the river from Norman Wells that will continue for the foreseeable future.
When you have that type and level of activity in a region, I think it only stands to reason that you see the benefits, not just the jobs and the employment but in the transportation infrastructure. If projections are correct and there is a substantial amount of oil across the river from Norman Wells, the Sahtu region is going to be an economic powerhouse in this territory and we will need to start to look at the importance of all-weather roads again, the Mackenzie Valley Highway, bridges, a bridge across the Bear River. These are key pieces to the puzzle and I think as we move forward we can certainly anticipate much more in the area of transportation infrastructure in the Sahtu, given the level of activity there and the potential of that reason. It’s immense. I certainly look forward to working with the Member.
I have got some preliminary plans to get up to the Sahtu probably in about 2 weeks’ time to visit a well site, and I extended an invitation to the Member and look forward to getting up there and seeing for myself the activity that’s taking place there. I know I’ve seen the trucks moving. I’ve been to Norman Wells a couple of times. But I look forward to actually getting out to a well site and doing that, and if the Member can accompany me, that would be great.
On the Canol Mile 222, I can make the inquiry with the department about old surplus equipment. For the most, I believe, that’s sold at auction, and I’d have to get back to the Member on a response to that question.
The other question was the interest on the Deh Cho Bridge. That is something that, because of the delay in the project, something that we have to obviously pay for. It’s a cost of the delay, and hopefully the bridge will be complete this fall and we’ll have traffic moving across it this fall. Thank you.
I certainly look forward to working with the Minister on seeing what type of arrangements can be made and when we can look at a date we can set down and visit one of the well sites.
I’m happy to see further discussions with the Minister on improving the transportation system in the Sahtu. Certainly, they come up usually from BC on Highway No. 7 to bring in their rigs and equipment from Fort St. John or from the Alberta border. They bring the heavy equipment up to the Sahtu. They also use that system; they use the water system and the marine system there. I look forward to further discussions with the Minister on what type of support we can give to people in the North and the people in the Sahtu for continuing the oil and gas exploration that’s been happening there for the last couple of months now.
I do hope that the Minister can look at the equipment that the department has that they can certainly use at Mile 222 and support some of the activities over there at that specific place there. I am done, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My question is once again in regard to the access to some of our surrounding communities in the Beaufort-Delta region.
As most of you are aware, a lot of our schools were shut down and even some of our communities were shut down during a big blizzard that we had just most recently. Just wondering if there was any special assistance outside of the ice roads and the transportation to the communities, which do rely I wouldn’t say heavily, but do rely on some of the services that are provided by Inuvik. When our contractors run over their budget, if there’s some kind of special budget that is put in place for not only the contractors on the highways and the ice roads but even for our municipal contractors when a town gets shut down because of high snowdrifts. That does cause emergency situations where if somebody needs to go to the hospital of if there is an RCMP emergency, something’s going on that does need to be addressed, and when we have high snowdrifts and lack of ground transportation to get to these communities or even into some of the places in our community, how those are addressed. Last year we had a blizzard that was very similar that pretty well shut down the whole community. This time it lasted for a whole week rather than just a couple of days.
Looking into that and looking at our patterns for the last few years, if you can call it a pattern, this is something that we might be looking at again in the future, and we want to see if we can address this in the budget for next year, even to the end of this fiscal year, making sure that there is money available should something like this happen again. We don’t want to be stuck in the cold when our contractors and our departments have no further money to reach some of the people in the communities or even get services to them.
Even on the ice roads there was some single-lane traffic, which does become very dangerous, especially with some of the big trucks that are commuting on the highways there. Just a comment on what we’ve seen up in the Beaufort-Delta the last couple of years and making sure that we do have access to our surrounding communities, specifically Aklavik, Tuktoyaktuk, Tsiigehtchic and Fort McPherson. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the question. There are a number of contracts and I’d have to see what provisions are in those contracts to address acts of God or Mother Nature when blizzards come and communities are cut off for an extended period of time. I could certainly look into that and get some further detail for the Member on how that works.
I know our contractors did yeoman’s work in trying to clear the roads and get communities connected again during the recent blizzard up in the Beaufort-Delta, and they are to be commended for all the hard work. I know they put in a number of extra hours to ensure the roads were clear not just in the Beaufort-Delta but also in the Sahtu. I appreciate all their hard work.
But specific to the contracts, I would have to get that information for the Member on what provisions are in there in the event that contractors do run over because of a blizzard. Thank you.
I do agree; the contractors did a great job of opening up the highways again. I do look forward to looking at those provisions for any of our contractors, regardless of whether it’s snow removal or even airport services that do exhaust their budgets, how this government can support those contractors to keep the roads open and the ground transportation feasible for when people need to travel them, especially in emergency situations.
Just a second question, for municipalities that have their own budget for road clearance within our boundaries that the government doesn’t really put a budget into, is there a specific type of budget that can help in an emergency situation such as Inuvik when a lot of our roads were not usable for the whole week pretty well? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Again I appreciate the Member’s concerns. Specific to municipalities, I will consult with my colleague, the Minister of MACA, to see how exactly communities are dealt with when it does come to a situation where communities are faced with the need for extraordinary funding because of a blizzard or costs that they didn’t anticipate. I will get that response back to the Member once I consult with my colleague, the Minister of MACA. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Anything further, Mr. Moses?
I appreciate the comments. No further comments or questions, Madam Chair. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Mr. Menicoche, did you have a motion?
Yes. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I move that this committee defer consideration of item number 11, Department of Transportation, contained in Tabled Document 1-17(2), Interim Appropriation 2012-2013. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The motion is in order. Motion is on the floor. Motion is in order. It’s just being distributed. We will wait a moment until people can see it.
Members, everybody has the motion, I believe. To the motion.
Question.
