I am here to present Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2014-2015. This document outlines an increase of $17.891 million in operations expenditures for the 2014-2015 fiscal year.
The more significant items included in the supplementary estimates are:
$10.9 million for the Department of Executive for costs associated with one-time devolution implementation activities. These costs are offset by an equivalent lapse of Government of Canada funding in 2013-14.
$2.7 million for the Department of Public Works and Services to complete the demolition of the Sir Alexander Mackenzie School in Inuvik. These costs are offset by an equivalent lapse of funding in 2013-14.
A total of $1.9 million for departments for the provision of French language communications and services.
$1 million for the Department of Lands to establish the liabilities and financial assurances division to assess and manage the securities associated with required closure and reclamation activities. These costs will be funded from the devolution supplementary reserve of $9 million.
I am prepared to review the details of the supplementary estimates document. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. I would ask you if you would like to bring witnesses into the Chamber.
Yes, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Does the committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. I’ll ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses to the table.
Minister Miltenberger, for the record could you please introduce your witnesses.
Thank you, Madam Chair. With me are Mr. Mike Aumond and Mr. Sandy Kalgutkar from Finance. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. General comments. No general comments. Does committee agree we’ll proceed to detail?
Agreed.
Thank you. If I could direct your attention, please, to page 3 of the document. Legislative Assembly, operations expenditures, Office of the Clerk, not previously authorized $24,000. Total department, not previously authorized, $24,000.
Agreed.
Agreed, thank you. Executive, operations expenditures, directorate, not previously authorized $10.957 million. Total department, not previously authorized, $10.957 million. Mr. Dolynny.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I’d like to welcome the Minister and the Department of Finance here today.
This one, there needs probably a little bit more of a clarifier. I believe this is a residual amount from, I think, a pot of money that was around $26.5 million, which is part of the devolution implementation funding. I know that was chiselled down as we prepared for the Devolution Final Agreement.
So the question I have, there was supposed to be some fairly specific caveats where this money, in terms of one-time money or one-time transitional activities specifically for devolution. Is this, indeed, exactly what this residual will be used for, for the remainder of this $10.957 million? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Minister Miltenberger.
Yes, Madam Chair.
At least we got an answer that’s quick and easy. I guess maybe I’ll ask the Minister to expand on what exactly this $10.957 million will be specifically spent on in relation to these one-time transitional costs. Thank you.
The funding is split into two categories for transition and implementation. The transition phase is the time between the signing of the AIP, and the final agreement was allocated $4 million of the $26.5 million. Total implementation phase is the time between the final agreement and April. It was allocated $22.5 million and that money is continuing to be expended.
I guess, as Members on this side of the House are asking, is what specifically this money will be spent on. There has been some fear, and I know it’s been talked about here in the House, that this does not become part of a slush fund for Cabinet direction for Cabinet priorities, that this is indeed to help, I guess, foster and prop up the devolution implementation.
So again I’ll ask the Minister what specifically is earmarked in this calendar year, which is a carry forward, where this money will be specifically spent. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Aumond.
Thank you, Madam Chair. This is transition money, as the Member has stated. It’s for one-time costs associated with the transition to devolution. We still have some work to do, to do this upcoming year. For example, there could be more fit-ups required for offices, more moves of offices as we implement the org structure that was agreed to at the last session. Again, we have to report on these activities not only to the federal government, we’ll be reporting on those activities to committee in due course as we go. I guess, to assure the Members and the House that these will not be discretionary funds, we can only spend this money according to our agreements with Canada for the intended purpose. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Aumond. Mr. Dolynny.
Madam Chair, if I’m reading the deputy minister’s response, and I have to maybe go back to answers tomorrow to take a look at it, but I did hear the word it “could” be for offices and it would not be used for discretionary funding.
I know all too well, being in this House for the few years that I have, typically the Department of Finance as well as departments know very well where they’re spending the money. Money is not easily come by in this House. Money is very sought after, and when there is money to be spent, I can assure you, Madam Chair, we all know that there is a laundry list a mile high where this money is going to be going. So I’m very concerned and perplexed that money could be spent, and we’ve heard a very general sense of over $10 million.
Again, I’m at the mercy of the Department of Finance here with some of the half answers that I’m getting here, but I’ll ask one last time: Can we get a specific list of criteria or infrastructure and more specifics of exactly where this $10.9 million will be spent in this calendar year? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We’ll account for every penny, and we can provide the Member with a list of where the money is anticipated to be spent. There are one-time costs that we’re still coming to grips with, but we will commit to provide a list of what has been spent and where we anticipate the need is going to be for the remainder of the funds. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Executive, operations expenditures, directorate, not previously authorized. Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I have some concerns about this money that’s associated with the Devolution Final Agreement as well. I believe we brought this up before, but I think there’s a concern on the part of Members that, you know, the money is there and we are being assured that it’s going to be used for devolution purposes, whether it’s to refit an office or whether it’s to hire a person that we didn’t anticipate that we needed to have hired before. But I think there’s also some nervousness about the fact that this money is sitting in general revenues. We get assurance that it’s only going to be used for devolution purposes, but there’s really no guarantee to us as Regular Members that that’s what is going to happen.
So, this question may have been asked before, I can’t quite remember, but is there a possibility that we can place the Devolution Final Agreement funding that is being carried over from year to year into a special reserve fund so that we have some assurance that it will only be used for devolution-type activities? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Aumond.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The item for consideration is the transition funding, which is the one-time costs to get us to implement devolution as opposed to the ongoing funding that we’re getting, which was part of the budget in the last Assembly and in which we indicated that we would have… We didn’t spend all of the money. We have a $10 million special supp reserve that we’ve set up for that ongoing funding as opposed to this one-time money, which our intention would be to spend this money this year. It’s only to get us to implementation as opposed to the ongoing delivery of programs and services associated with devolution. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Aumond. Ms. Bisaro.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Thanks to Mr. Aumond. I guess that’s even more worrisome when we haven’t really heard what this money is going to be used for if we’re going to be using it up in ’14-15, yet I gathered from previous answers that we don’t really know what we’re using it for. That’s a little more concerning.
When would we know what this $10 million is going to be used for?
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We’ll be reporting through this in the business planning process, and we can provide updates to committee as often as they’d like.
The issue of the trust factor is somewhat worrisome when we’re talking about… We’re spending $1.6 billion. We sit in this House and we lay out the plans, we give our commitments, and then we’re now asked on this particular fund, how can we be trusted to do what we say we’re going to do. Because this is our job and we’re going to be before this Assembly and we’re accountable to the Assembly and we’ll provide you that information. Plus, we have a deal, a contractual arrangement with the federal government where we have to account for this money according to the agreement that we signed. So I want to assure the Member, her distrust aside, we are people of our word here and we are accountable and we serve before this Assembly at their will.
Thanks to the Minister. I think distrust is too strong a word. I think it’s a concern for the accountability of the money. The Minister mentioned the business planning process, but the business plans, we didn’t have business plans for the ’14-15 budget year. The business plans coming up are for ’15-16, and if I understood the comment earlier, it was that this $10 million is going to be spent in this year, ’14-15. I appreciate and accept the offer from the Minister to get reports on how this money is being spent, but for me and other Members to feel like we are adequately monitoring how this money is being spent, we’re kind of being asked to… I agree. We’re being asked to trust you, and I do trust you, but it would be nice to know what sorts of things we’re spending this money on.
The commitment is as we make the expenditures and identify the need, we will provide that information to committee through fiscal updates, through our business planning process, through our supps that we’re going to put this money to use in.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Executive, operations expenditures, directorate, not previously authorized, $10.957 million. Total department, not previously authorized $10.957 million.
Agreed.
Department of Human Resources, operations expenditures, management and recruitment services, not previously authorized, $130,000. Total department, not previously authorized, $130,000.
Agreed.
Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, operations expenditures, corporate management, not previously authorized, $6,000. Total department, not previously authorized, $6,000.
Agreed.
Department of Finance, operations expenditures, deputy minister’s office, not previously authorized, $7,000. Total department, not previously authorized, $7,000.
Agreed.
Municipal and Community Affairs, operations expenditures, directorate, not previously authorized, $28,000. Total department, not previously authorized, $28,000.
Agreed.
Public Works and Services, operations expenditures, directorate, not previously authorized, $177,000, asset management, not previously authorized, $3.6 million. Total department, not previously authorized, $3.777 million. Mr. Dolynny.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I’m just going to zone in on one of the line entries here for the asset management, and that’s under the $2.758 million, which the descriptor indicates funding for costs associated with concluding the demolition of Sir Alexander Mackenzie School in Inuvik. I guess, just so I can understand some of the clarity here, this is now an operational cost, and I believe the original total budget – which it actually appears that this demolition has now dragged on for almost two and a half years, almost three years here – I believe, was around $8.6 million for the complete demolition of the schools in general for the new E3 School.
Can I get some confirmation that this $2.758 million is the final leg of this $8.6 million, and if that’s the case, were we on budget for this full demolition and is the project complete?
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Aumond.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Member is correct. The total costs are $8.6 million and the $2.758 million is part of that, and it does represent the total budget for the project. This money was approved to the Department of Public Works and Services last year for the demolition of their schools and they’re just bringing this back for this fiscal year so that they can complete the demolition of the final school, and it will be done this year.
Thank you, Mr. Aumond. Mr. Dolynny.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just so that I can get to proper closure of this file, during the demolition phase there was definite anticipation that there was going to be a significant amount of asbestos and contaminated materials. I was led to believe that there was more contaminated material than earlier, I guess, thought of when the demolition commenced and even during the different phases of the demolition process.
My question is that given the budget that we had of the $8.6 million, did that cover all the extra anticipated disposal of asbestos and any other contaminated substances that were known during the demolition phase?
