Thank you, Mr. Bromley. More of a question; a valid one. Again, Members, we’re on page 13-33, information item, Environment Fund. Any questions? Being none, a combination of pages here, Members, 13-34, 13-35, 13-36, 13-37, 13-38 and 13-39, information item, work performed on behalf of others, $6.203 million. Any questions? Being none, this concludes the Department of ENR. Unfortunately, we have a deferral on 13-17, so the committee will be returning back.
I’d like to thank the Minister and his delegation, Mr. Campbell and Ms. Magrum. We’ll be returning to the House. At this time, I’d like the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witnesses out of the House.
Committee members, we’ll just take a very brief recess. Thank you.
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Welcome back, committee. Again, we are now on Industry, Tourism and Investment. I will ask if Minister Ramsay has any opening comments.
Yes, Mr. Chairman.
Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Go ahead, Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to present the 2012-13 Main Estimates for the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment. The department’s mandate is to promote economic self-sufficiency through the promotion of tourism, traditional economy, trade, investment, business and manufacturing and the responsible development of the Northwest Territories natural resources to create a prosperous, diverse and sustainable economy for the benefit of all residents. Through this mandate we continue to support the commitment of our government to have a diversified economy that provides all communities and regions with opportunities and choices.
The department’s main estimates compose total operational expenses of approximately $49.6 million for the coming fiscal year, which is a decrease of 7 percent over 2011-12. This includes sunsets and reductions of $6.6 million, an increase in initiatives of $2.4 million and forced growth of $444,000.
I will now provide an overview of ITI’s proposed areas of investment contained in the 2012-13 Main Estimates as they relate to the priorities of the 17th Legislative Assembly.
In the coming year ITI will partner with community and Aboriginal governments to improve program and service delivery where possible. This includes supporting GNWT devolution efforts, building collaborative working relationships and developing the Aboriginal tourism sector in the NWT.
In 2012-13, ITI will continue to monitor commitments made by the mining industry set out in the socio-economic agreements. As well, ITI will also respond to employment initiatives brought about due to robust oil and gas exploration in the Sahtu and other regions.
For ITI, this priority includes strategic investments in hydro and energy initiatives, developing an Economic Development Strategy and a Mineral Development Strategy, supporting the traditional economy and growing the agricultural sector. ITI will also work to support GNWT devolution efforts.
I will now provide highlights of new initiatives and investments for the 2012-13 Main Estimates.
In 2012-13, ITI will invest over $1 million to develop a Mineral Development Strategy and an Economic Development Strategy. A Mineral Development Strategy is key to addressing industry investment and regulatory regime concerns and to help us sustainably realize our mineral potential.
An Economic Development Strategy will help us achieve our goals to diversify the economy and ensure benefits accrue to all NWT residents. Although mines are a major contributor to the economic health of the territory, a truly healthy economy is one that is diversified.
The NWT is facing a critical labour shortage in the next decade. NWT businesses have repeatedly cited lack of skilled workers as a major concern in operating and growing their businesses. ITI is proposing to invest $300,000 to continue with the success of the Come Make Your Mark national marketing campaign to promote the NWT as a place to live and work, to help grow our population and workforce.
The Ministerial Energy Coordinating and Climate Change Committee of Cabinet leads GNWT efforts to support the 17th Legislative Assembly’s commitment towards strategic infrastructure investments in hydro initiatives. ITI supports this committee and leads coordination of government-wide investment in energy initiatives. For 2012-13, the GNWT is currently proposing to invest $3.45 million in various energy initiatives and the ITI portion of this total is $1.15 million. This includes $700,000 in core funding for the NWT Energy Corporation and $200,000 for hydrological monitoring and regional hydro and renewable energy solutions. For example, some work is underway to examine options to develop small-scale hydro in the Sahtu.
ITI is also coordinating a government-wide initiative to consider options for a long-term energy solution in Inuvik. ITI is proposing $100,000 to look at medium to long-term energy options for Inuvik liquefied natural gas. This funding will be combined with $100,000 in funding from the Department of ENR to analyze a range of options including solar, wind and biomass. This work will form analysis on community energy solutions. ITI is also proposing a $150,000 investment toward the development of an Energy Action Plan which will lay out the GNWT future approach to proposed actions and investments.
The department is also proposing some key areas of forced growth funding for the upcoming fiscal year. ITI is proposing to establish a new position of permafrost scientist at a cost of $155,000 annually, to be located within the NWT geoscience office. Especially in the North, we are experiencing the negative effects of climate change. A permafrost scientist will work with communities to provide expertise on exploring the best ways to deal with climate change and minimize negative impacts.
Tourism is a major contributor to the NWT economy, and research on visitors, tourism activities, facilities and more is critical to industry growth. ITI is proposing to establish a new position of tourism research analyst. The analyst will help to ensure the large volume of research required for tourism growth is comprehensive, timely and accurate.
In addition to new investments, ITI will continue to strengthen and diversify our economy and build a strong and sustainable future for our territory by maintaining our current level of investment in various community programs and projects. I will mention a few of them now.
Funding of nearly $4 million for the Support to Entrepreneurs and Economic Development Policy will continue, with dedicated funding for arts and fine crafts, the film industry and the Prospectors Grubstake Program.
Tourism development in the NWT will also continue to be a major priority toward diversifying the NWT’s economy. As ITI’s tourism marketing arm, ITI will maintain funding of $2.5 million to NWT Tourism to support marketing efforts to promote the NWT as a top tourist destination. ITI is also proposing to continue funding of the Sport Hunt Outfitter Marketing Support Program to support outfitters in the Inuvik and North Slave regions, with a contribution of $300,000 for 2012-13. In addition, funding of $900,000 will continue for the oversubscribed Tourism Product Diversification and Marketing Program. \ITI is also proposing to continue our investment of over $1 million to the Community Harvesters Assistance Program, $610,000 under the Genuine Mackenzie Valley Fur Program and $550,000 in promotion and support of commercial harvesting, processing and marketing of fish and meat. This program supports the packaging, distribution and promotion of fish and meat products to consumers in the NWT, providing a stable supply of food for local needs and for sale at local markets. We are also looking to continue investments in Take a Kid Trapping and Take a Kid Harvesting programs which, with our partners, invested almost $420,000 in 52 projects throughout the NWT.
Thank you for the opportunity to provide an overview of the department’s 2012-13 Main Estimates. I look forward to discussing them with you in more detail. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Do you have visitors you would like to bring into the House?
Yes, Mr. Chair.
Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Can I get the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witnesses into the House, please?
Mr. Ramsay, would you care to introduce your witnesses to the committee, please?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my right is Nancy Magrum, the director of finance and administration, shared services, Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment. To my left is Peter Vician, deputy minister of the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment.
Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Ms. Magrum, Mr. Vician, welcome back to the Chamber. Thank you for your time today. We’re going to move the floor to general comments. As we’ve used in the past, we’ll give Members the opportunity to say general comments and we’ll collectively get the Minister to respond as an aggregate at the end. So, general comments, Industry, Tourism and Investment. Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Department of ITI, when you look at the situation in the Northwest Territories, it’s at a place and time where the department and staff and its resources are most important or critical at this time. You have some big projects going on with ITI. You have tourism with world-class spots in the Northwest Territories that people want to see and visit. We have opportunities with tourism right down the Mackenzie Valley. In some places it’s pretty advantageous to put in some tourism projects and some it’s not too good because of the infrastructure. We don’t have quite the infrastructure there to bring people in. You can only go certain places on the all-weather roads and then they stop. Even that we have to fix up the facilities as we’re attracting tourists from the South, European tourists flying in.
Mr. Chair, if we continue to see development at the pace that we’re seeing in Alberta and the amount of impacts that are happening in our water and stuff that’s happening down in Alberta and down south, people are starting to realize that the Northwest Territories is probably going to be one of the last places in the world that has fresh, clean water, fresh air, and that’s what they want to see.
So ITI is in a very delicate balance to promote tourism and at the same time promote industry. Mining, oil and gas, exploration, even the outfitters and now we’re starting to see that there’s a push to look at how we support industry, especially in my area. The Minister is well aware of preliminary discussions and meetings he’s been having with his officials and various oil and gas companies on what the Sahtu could eventually become if all the stars lined up, and that’s what they say is there with the hydraulic fracking that they want to propose to do. We had several briefings last week; we had some meetings and we’re just at the tip of the iceberg on the Tulita district, shale oil in our area.
The question of the Mackenzie Gas Project I could say, for all intents and purposes, is up in the air unless the oil companies or the builders want to take a cut in their profits and build that pipeline at a loss. Then we could see the Mackenzie Gas possibly being built. We don’t know, but we know the price of natural gas and we know what it costs the oil companies. They’re not there to lose money; stakeholders are there to make a profit. They’re legally obligated to make a profit. So we haven’t heard much from the federal government.
At the same time, the Minister is supporting and promoting Take a Kid Trapping. That’s a very good program. I fully support this and subscribe to this program, because the Minister is supporting and subscribing to our way of life. That’s something that this government needs to be applauded for. This program is to support our way of life, which is living on the land and we use the trapping for economic reasons. That I like.
We’ve got some proposed parks in my region called the Doi T’oh territorial proposed park. If it ever gets the light of day where we could take over once the federal government does all of its assessments and tells you what’s there and if we’re going to sign over, that will be the largest territorial park in the Northwest Territories and it’s a world-class park.
So the Minister has some very big projects in front of him. I just talked about a few and I’m sure hoping that the Minister looks at an oil and gas strategy. I know he talks about it sometimes as the Economic Development Strategy, but I think if the Minister would look at a specific oil and gas strategy other than the Economic Development Strategy, more specialized. Right now it’s almost like a mineral strategy he’s talking about. If this play as we’re seeing and hearing in the Tulita district, it’s big, it’s huge, bigger than the diamond mines. We should be looking at an oil and gas strategy. He’s talking about a Mining Strategy. I guess that’s something that bothers me a little bit, that we need to look at putting together a strategy, unless he explains really well this Economic Development Strategy. I don’t know enough about it. So I look forward to the Minister talking about that.
I want to ask the Minister when we go through the details on the budget about what efforts his department will be putting forward to Cabinet and to us to look at how they will support the Norman Wells oil and gas exploration work, what type of support he’ll be giving to the community in Tulita and Norman Wells. I want to ask the Minister about the Norman Wells natural gas situation. He mentioned somewhere in Inuvik. I’m not too sure what it will take to have this government write it down. I notice when you write things down it has more potential interaction. For me here a couple weeks and once in awhile I hear the Ministers over there talk about the Norman Wells natural gas situation. People in Norman Wells appreciate that when they’re left out, know it’s a burning issue, it’s facing them right now today. When you mention another community without even mentioning their community, then they wonder if the government has their pulse on the situation happening in Norman Wells. I certainly know you have it on Inuvik, because you mentioned Inuvik, Inuvik, Inuvik. You haven’t mentioned Norman Wells. I’m not too sure of the reason behind that, but I’d certainly like to know that your government is there for them.
Those are my comments. I would wait until the Minister goes through the item page. I do want to say that the people in Deline are looking forward to a hydro initiative project. It’s been a long time in waiting and I want to thank the Minister for mentioning that small-scale hydro project. I want to see where we look at where some construction can happen.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya, for general comments. Moving on again for general comments for ITI. Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. When it comes to tourism, I think, especially in my riding, I always couple it with Highway No. 7, surprisingly. First of all I would like to thank the Minister for our recent trip to Fort Liard and actually driving Highway No. 7 and into Fort Simpson and meeting the leadership. I really appreciate that and I have a Member’s statement for later on in the week. Constituents are very, very happy that he took the time and effort to come and see and feel Highway No. 7, as well as listen to the different tourism related concerns that are tied directly to Highway No. 7. I’m really pleased about that.
Years ago we used to have an initiative by ITI where I think there was a diamond given for driving the loop including the Deh Cho Trail. I didn’t see any reference to that in the opening remarks. It’s initiatives and supporting initiatives like that that pays attention to people doing the loop.
I think Mr. Ted Grant’s discussions, as well, where he indicated that years ago we used to have up to 20 bus tours per year going into Fort Simpson and now we’re down to zero. It’s all related to Highway No. 7.
I’ve been trying to make the case that Highway No. 7 is not a maintenance issue. It’s about cost of living as well. Providers that run the stores there, the trucking companies refuse to go down Highway No. 7. Suppliers from Hay River are actually driving through Grande Prairie to get to Fort Liard to deliver their freight. Whether or not the road is good or not, they just refuse to travel down only because of the horror stories that are real on that. As well, people that make a living, the trucking companies, the medical escort transportation companies, the mail companies really, really have an impact on driving Highway No. 7.
I have to reference Mr. Ted Grant again because he’s such a well-known advocate of tourism territorially and nationally. He does travel far and wide to trade shows in Europe and people actually phone him in Fort Simpson from Europe, the tourism and travel agencies, to see the conditions of Highway No. 7. He has to be frank and open with them that it’s in very poor shape. People are just refusing to come down it. As well as the people that drive it with their motorhomes, the daring one or two that actually do it. What happens there is they let their friends know. They get asked how their trip was.
All in all I’ve raised it enough times there, but having a loop to travel around would go a long ways in stimulating the whole of the Northwest Territories and supporting all our arts and crafts industries along the way. As it is now, tour bus operators don’t want to drive five hours down towards Fort Simpson and then turn around and do the same drive back to the same highway system for another four hours that they’ve already been on. It’s always best to have a loop and hopefully we’ll certainly work towards that.
Those are just my opening comments. Mahsi cho.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. General comments. Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Obviously, first and foremost on my list in a few of these departments is the Inuvik gas situation. When I look at the opening address and the money allocated to helping out the residents of Inuvik. I always said it time and time again, that it’s a bigger issue than just the community of Inuvik. This is something that’s going to affect the economy as a whole for the NWT, the rippling effects should Inuvik run out of gas and the high cost of living.
As mentioned again, we were just there this past weekend for the graduation ceremonies and there’s a lot of discussion of people that are going to leave Inuvik. Get their houses up for sale. It’s very sad. It’s very unfortunate. I feel some help from this government in this dire need for the residents of Inuvik just so the community can continue to sustain itself. It’s something that we need to look at as a government, and take that as an approach to the situation that’s going to be upon us in two years in Norman Wells. I’ve always got to make that as a comment first and foremost. I can get into it more in detail but it’s something that we’ve been hammering out over and over as Members’ statements and questions during business plans that it needs to be taken as a reality to come to the community.
Like driving down Highway No. 7, maybe come down and live in Inuvik when the costs double for people who are going to be on gas and have to deal with the high cost of living even more when the businesses have to get their costs back by putting the prices up for their goods and services and see what the residents and long-term residents of Inuvik who have made Inuvik their home and called Inuvik their home throughout their whole lives are going to have to live with it.
Inuvik is a transient community, we do get professionals that come and go. For the real people that live up in Inuvik and the ones that stay there and call it a home, the people that have come to Inuvik and called it home, it’s something that they’re all going to have to live with, and it’s, like I said, sad and it’s very unfortunate. With the economy and the lack of jobs up there, it just adds to the situation. I could continue on this but I’ll just make some other general comments within this department here.
Obviously, the socio-economic agreements and the MOUs for the northern mining workforce. We’ve had some mines come up to Inuvik to do some recruitment, but not very many people get hired out of there. It’s a nice gesture but it’s something that we need to push, not only for Inuvik but for all our communities in the North that have some of these skilled workers and don’t have the jobs in their regions or communities to go to work. It’s great to see the work that’s going on in the Sahtu and there’s people from our region that are working there, but if that wasn’t happening, the chances of our regional workers getting into the mines is probably pretty low.
Other comments with the permafrost position, I do believe it’s going to be something that was mentioned in the geoscience building. However, we talk about decentralization with all the technology we have today and being able to work with the groups up in the Beaufort-Delta region where we’re seeing climate change making the most impacts and how it’s impacting the lives of people who live off the land and in our coastal communities.
I was glad to see the money put in there for SEED. I just hope to see that the SEED money when it’s allocated to the communities is distributed fairly throughout the regions. I know that Yellowknife does have a big business sector. Some of our regional communities, as well, do have a big business sector. I do hope that a lot, not a lot, but I just hope for fairness that some of our businesses get the same amount of money that hopefully it won’t all get allocated to our capital.
Once again, speaking on behalf of the community that I represent in Inuvik, our numbers are down in tourism. It varies throughout the NWT but we do have a lot of really good things up there that should be highlighted and addressed and made mention of. We have some good parks up in the region as well. The tourist numbers were down this last year and hopefully we won’t see that trend continue. Maybe we can develop a strategic plan on addressing those issues for Inuvik, for Tuk, for all the communities that are up in that region there.
Another concern was just in our last couple of years we have seen some increases in campground fees. We do get a lot of locals who do like to go out to the campgrounds on the weekends or during time off in the summer. They have to pay all these high extra costs while they’re already living in a high cost of living community. If there was some way we could address the locals kind of getting a little break when they want to utilize some of our nice campgrounds up in Inuvik and down the Dempster.
As we move forward year to year, we do get a growing disparity in cost of living and the money that people make and the jobs that we have throughout the communities. From community to community but you see it biggest from communities to regions and then regions to the capital. We just want fair, equal opportunities that should be met and addressed throughout the Northwest Territories. There are a lot of concerns and this department can address some of them. As we get into detail here, we’ll have some questions and look at ways we can do this.
Just in respect to the community of Inuvik and in respect to the community of Norman Wells, if it’s not a long-term source of fuel. We have to look at some energy initiatives and look at how we can create a long-term solution using other sources of energy.
Anyhow, just a few comments and as we get into detail we’ll get some more questions and hopefully find some solutions and those kind of things.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Moving on with general comments. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Nadli.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the exercise on this budget is, the intention in the end of this process is to create a very conducive climate to ensure that we have a very invigorating economy, so that we create opportunities for that, at the pan-territorial level, at the same time right down to the community level. We’re trying to create a very good climate so economic development and investment could happen and so people at the local level have opportunities and take advantage of them.
One of the things that I’ve always emphasized is that in order for us to reach that point, this government needs to at least be in a position to be supportive of the various land claims and self-government negotiations that are happening. I think it’s a given that there are three parties to the negotiations and fundamentally there has been a long-standing bilateral relationship between First Nations, plus with the federal government. At this point, as you kind of move towards a trilateral process, governments need to do all they can to ensure that at the end of the day there are very amicable and equitable arrangements in terms of lands and resources and self-government arrangements. In that sense I think governments have to be supportive in trying to encourage a level of certainty here in the Northwest Territories in order for economic development to happen. I emphasize that.
The other matter is, again I’ve been consistently trying to profile communities in terms of the dynamics at the local level. I think we all come from small communities at one point or another, but I think that the dilemma that communities face here in the North is rather different because, I mean, for one, we’re trying to make it our home, and two, we’re trying to raise our families, and three, we’re trying to ensure that it’s a place we can live and continue to live and ensure that the children that come after us enjoy at least the investments that we make today. Community economies, I think sometimes we neglect to perhaps highlight it and in terms of how local businesses play an integral role in the economy of the Northwest Territories. They provide a service to consumers at the same time that they create jobs and opportunities for the local economy. At the same time, we’re still going through almost like a passage of a very land-based culture to at the point where most people are living in the communities. We’re at kind of a crossroads where we’ve come from very deep traditional roots and beliefs and now the younger generation seems to be embracing the wage economy of trying to take advantage of the very material things that they see on TV. In that respect, I think there’s a higher expectation of a better living condition for people at the community level and I think we need to try to at least be in a supportive position so that communities become have communities, not just to persist in the outskirts of larger centres. There has to be an equal share between have communities and have-not communities.
For those reasons, which kind of leads me to tourism, I think what we’re doing is good, but what’s concerning me is that we seem to be really always pitching that yes, the potential is there, the potential is there, it’s great. We’ve got the northern lights. We’ve got TV and documentaries profiling the North. Yes, I think we need to do more. You know, $4 million is good but you compare ourselves to the Yukon and yes, yes, they’re right next door to a larger American state, but the fact of the matter is that we’re trying to create local economies and local opportunities, and the best logical thing, of course, is tourism. We need to really try and develop that sector of the economy.
Economic strategy, as I’ve pointed out consistently, yes, the diamond industry or the mineral industry has been very integral in laying the foundation of the economy that we enjoy at this point. I think we need to make efforts to try and diversify our economy so that each sector, whether it be tourism, manufacturing, fisheries, you know, we develop it to the fullest and we try to take advantage of it so that we bring equal opportunities to all levels of people who live and make the North their home. If we could do that then, of course, we have done our homework and we’re delivering a very good service and doing what is right for the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Moving on, we have the Member for Hay River North, Mr. Bouchard.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess my concerns with ITI and some of the issues that are involved there are mostly issues that I have brought up in the House in the past while. We have been working through the business plan process and now I’m going to question that through the budget process of some of the activities that this department does for us trying to create and make sure that the economic development that is happening in the Northwest Territories is going to northern business. I have indicated concerns with the Business Incentive Policy, and that’s the implementation and how some of the contracts throughout the department, and I know it’s through the Business Incentive Policy that some of this is implemented, how some of the contacts are divided and implemented and some of them are bundled so large that we’re putting together packages for southern companies, basically. Most northern companies don’t have the capacity to handle most of the projects we’re putting together. I’d like to see the department work with all the… That they implement some of that Business Incentive Policy.
As well as some of the projects that are being worked on as far as economic development, such as the Tuk to Inuvik highway. We’re looking at a fibre optic line and we’re looking at the Mackenzie Valley Highway as well. I think we need to work on the Business Incentive Policy to ensure that all those contracts and jobs are kept in the North, maximizing the North, and making sure that those jobs go to Northerners and all the money multiplies in the North, and the department knows all the multipliers. They know what the ramifications are making those jobs in the North stay in the North.
The other areas of concerns are, obviously, looking at the department, and these would be some detailed questions about positions. There are a couple of additional positions and, of course, the two additional positions are both in Yellowknife. I’ve had concerns throughout departments, every department, about this. One of our priorities in this Assembly is to get jobs out into the regions, get it out to the communities, and I’m not seeing that in most of the departments, and this department is one fine example of that. We have questioned some of the positions and gotten some answers that I’m not exactly comfortable with, but we’ll discuss that in the details.
Along with that is the discussion on devolution and preparing for devolution. The Department of ITI is one of the departments that’s involved in devolution and I just feel that if we don’t look at the decentralization and the positions that are continually growing in Yellowknife, devolution will pass us by and those jobs that are available will end up in Yellowknife and we’ll be back where we are, if not even worse, because more of the centralization, more migration of the people will come to Yellowknife because that’s where the jobs are.
I would like to see the department work with the mines and the socio-economic agreements. I’d like to try to reduce as much as we can. I know we have a limited workforce, but I’d like to see some of those numbers go up as far as the amount of Northerners. There’s still a great deal of people that are flying out of the North with the mines’ money in their pockets, with our money in their pockets, and not spending their money here. I’d like to cut down the jet traffic out of those mines. I think it’s important for us to somehow promote the North and make sure that people know that the North is where we want people that are working in the North to spend their money.
Another area of concern that I have is through the BDIC. They’ve indicated that the department is in the process of reviewing it. I’d like them to review some of their limits and some of their approval processes. Currently, the department has limited approval within the regions, and I believe that the superintendents in the regions have probably one of the better indicators of who would be one of the best people to approve larger loans. I’d like to see some of those limits increased, as well as some of the capacity for large borrowing for existing clients.
Obviously, the department’s involvement in the pipeline and investigating the pipeline and where it’s currently situated, as far as the economics of doing the pipeline, is it a venture that’s going to ever materialize. We have large questions of that. Those are some of the questions and concerns I have for the Department of ITI, and I’ll have more in the details. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate this opportunity. The first general comment refers to the decrease in this department, about 7 percent, and most of that was on the back of the energy initiatives side of the equation. I don’t think that’s in line with the priorities of this Assembly. More on that when we get to that page, but I did want to raise that for the Minister’s attention.
The increasing employment opportunities where they are most needed. I’m not sure that there’s a good match between the mining industry and many of our small and relatively remote communities. I think there are different kinds of work that needs to be done there. Also, it’s a bit of a scale issue. I think there is a role for the GNWT, for example, to help communities meet their basic needs with local resources, so much of the support we provide to the communities in terms of cash could actually be supplied to the system in meeting their own needs with local resources. This builds skills. It builds connections with the land which are starting to be severed. It builds a self-reliance that will result in entrepreneurship, a willingness and a capacity to get into other issues. I think the benefits would ricochet or ripple through the economy.
I see a tremendous amount of planning happening, planning dollars without the on-the-ground programs that I think we need. I think we will get into that with the detail. I do agree with the Minister that a truly healthy economy is one that is diversified. I will be looking forward to working with the department on that goal, economic diversification, in a good, sound Economic Development Strategy that is socially and environmentally beneficial as well.
The proposal for another $300,000 to invest in the Come Make Your Mark national marketing campaign, I have supported that. It is just that we are in a dilemma here when at the same time we are raising our electricity rates by 30 percent with no end in sight or instituting mechanisms so they will just annually be adjusted upwards according to various factors and so on.
We are fighting ourselves a bit here. I think one of the major things – and I talked to the Minister of Human Resources about this – is people these days want to see environmental sustainability. If we show that in a very progressive way, people will be attracted. They will want to be part of this society. I saw that today at the Greenstone Building with the showing of the public showing up to have a voice in how we govern our affairs in Canada and in the Northwest Territories. Those are real values that I think we need to incorporate and be sure we are addressing.
Again, the reduction, ITI proportion of energy initiatives, $1.15 million is a ghost of what was in there for the previous number of years. I am concerned about that. I see the discussion here is really dabbling in energy when what we need is really clear initiatives that address the cost-drivers that we clearly have. On that front, the $100,000 for Inuvik, again I see that is dabbling. This is a very serious situation. We need to put some significant resources into the Inuvik situation and some assistance for the Norman Wells situation. I don’t think this budget really does that.
I do appreciate the Minister’s continuing to fund the Sport Hunt Outfitter Marketing Support Program with the $300,000. This is so important to our outfitters to keep them alive while we wait for the recovery of our caribou herds which, to some degree, I hold government accountable for, in terms of the degree to which those herds declined and the failure of this department to work in a straightforward manner with the outfitting industry and allow them to go ahead and make commitments that they were not able to fulfill once the hammer came down on the availability of tags and so on. I do appreciate that. I support that. We may need it another year or so. I will be looking forward to the results of our caribou surveys and the actions based on those results.
I think I will leave it at that and just get on to detail here. I appreciate this opportunity again. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. I believe everyone has spoken in general comments. I will turn over to the Minister for a reply to these comments.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the Members for the opening comments on ITI’s budget.
I will start with some of the comments Mr. Yakeleya made. I agree with him; I think it is a tough balancing act in looking at sustainable development and protecting the environment. There is a lot going on in the Sahtu these days with the development of the Canol Trail. It is very exciting. There have obviously been a number of opportunities there for residents to look at job opportunities. There have been opportunities for businesses there. That will continue into this summer and into next winter. Again, it is very exciting.
I had the opportunity to meet some of the businesses and companies that are involved in that work. Just last week I had another meeting with one of the companies doing business in the Sahtu. They are very optimistic about the resource that is there. They have spent sizeable dollars already and are looking at future investments there, not just on their own property but also some infrastructure on the ground. I think there are lots of good work that can come out of working together in the Sahtu on maximizing the opportunities, not only to residents with opportunities in jobs and business but also for government to work with other levels of government and industry to ensure that we can maximize the impact that that development is going to have on our territory and in the Sahtu. It is very exciting.
We also are excited about the traditional economy and the programs that we have at ITI. We were over in the Yukon for PNWAR at the Arctic Caucus and talking to the Ministers from the Yukon. They are very envious of the programs that we have here in the Northwest Territories related to the fur industry. In fact, we were going to send them some information on how they could develop programs similar to what we have here in the Northwest Territories in developing the fur industry over there. We have seen a great success in the support the Community Harvesters Assistance Program, Take a Kid Trapping, and the price of fur has gone up tremendously. Pelts are raising great numbers at auction. Recently in Seattle, there were over $800,000 in furs sold. That is money that goes directly back to the local economy. We continue to support that. I am very excited about it.
Mr. Yakeleya also talked about the mining or Mineral Development Strategy and also the Economic Development Strategy. I think it is very important that these two initiatives go forward. On the Mineral Development Strategy, we have had industry asking the government for a number of years to advance this type of work. We have seen after 2009, when the bottom fell out of investment here in our territory, there was a renewed focus on trying to develop a mineral strategy here in the Northwest Territories that would answer a number of questions and, I guess, put out the welcome sign that we are interested in getting that investment back. We are interested in some new mines. In the next seven to 10 years, we could look at getting seven to nine projects across the goal line and opened here in the Northwest Territories. That is exciting. If you look at a project like Prairie Creek, nothing says you are interested in development and opportunities for people more than opening a new mine. We have rested a lot of our laurels on diamonds, obviously, over the past decade and a half. It is important for us to see us diversify the mining portfolio here in the Northwest Territories. We are looking to do just that. I think the Mineral Development Strategy is going to allow us to do that.
On the Norman Wells gas situation, if I could just for a second answer something that Member Yakeleya had asked. That is, what does the future hold for Norman Wells? I think Norman Wells, with the development of the shale oil across the river from Norman Wells and in close proximity to the community, I think there is opportunity as we go forward. There is gas over there. It is definitely a by-product of the oil that would be taken from that resource place. The infrastructure is all there, and I think if the timing is right on the development of that resource across the river from Norman Wells, there will be opportunities for the community of Norman Wells and it’s just bridging that time frame. Hopefully the gas does last.
We had Member Menicoche talk about tourism and how important the Deh Cho Trail and Highway No. 7 are to his riding and to the southern southwestern part of the territory; and it is very, very important. I heard firsthand, when I was down there late last week, from a gentleman who runs tour buses and companies with buses and water contracts. It makes things very difficult when the road is in the condition that it is in, to transport things over it. It has an impact on the cost of living, as the Member said. It has an impact on tourism numbers, and the numbers don’t lie. Those numbers are down in the Deh Cho parks and that’s something I guess I’ll have to talk to the Minister of Transportation about. We’ll see what we can do there and I’ve made the commitment to the Member about trying to identify capital dollars for Highway No. 7 as we go forward to address the pressing needs on that highway, and I think that will, if we can get a sizeable investment back into Highway No. 7, we’ll see the numbers come back, the visitation numbers come back, the RVs come back and people come back to the Deh Cho and to the Nahendeh riding, which is important for us. I think we need to realize the potential there.
Also in the community of Fort Liard there’s a tremendous opportunity there with gas and petroleum development that shouldn’t go unrecognized as well. I know they’re moving forward. I had a good meeting with the chief and some councillors down there last week as well. So they’re moving forward and they rely heavily on transportation and the infrastructure that’s there. The two definitely, when you look at economic development and the advancement of that, transportation infrastructure is crucial to that happening.
With Mr. Moses, if I could respond to some of the concerns the MLA had. We are still working with the Inuvik Joint Venture. We’re going to be having a meeting I believe this week with the folks from Inuvik and the IJV. It’s important that we find a solution and move forward. I think we’ve got to address the situation head on. I believe the government has been doing a great job in doing that through the Premier and Minister Miltenberger, as well, in trying to meet the challenge, and it is a huge challenge. It has cost us millions of dollars and we need to find a way forward, something that’s going to satisfy the residents in Inuvik, and also for us the peace of mind as we go forward as a government.
The Member also brought up the permafrost scientist that we are looking at hiring and being housed in the geoscience office here in Yellowknife. That’s a position that we feel very strongly about. It will be a tough to staff position, but we’re anxious to get a specialist here in the Northwest Territories working with other scientists here to look at the impact of climate change and permafrost as it relates to government infrastructure and it’s important that we get that position. On the location of that position, yes, in Inuvik that may be something we need to look at, but certainly I think we should be looking at the position itself first. I think with all the other work that’s going on government-wide in looking at decentralization and in advance of devolution, as well, I think we shouldn’t really be looking at positions one off. I think it needs to be a broader focus and a broader look at how all the positions fit in and work with one another. Then we can make some decisions about where they are the best fit and how we can move forward with those. But I appreciate the Member’s concerns with that.
On the park fees, the park fees have gone up, but the cost of operating the parks have gone up, too, and all that money goes back to the operator. So if there are increased costs in operation of the park, that’s why we’ve seen an increase in the fees there. It’s all to help maintain and operate our parks so that visitors and residents alike can enjoy them, and I think that’s fundamental to all of that.
MLA Nadli talked about increasing opportunities and we need to support the various land claims that are out there. I agree with that. Tourism, the potential is there and I agree with MLA Nadli wholeheartedly. I think we’ve got ample opportunity here in the Northwest Territories to grow tourism, and it’s possible that tourism can impact economically all 33 communities across the Northwest Territories in a positive way and we need to keep that in mind. We need to fund it to a level that is going to allow that to happen. I know the Member said $4 million isn’t good enough, and as we move forward I think that’s going to be a challenge of this government to try to find and identify more funding for tourism. I think a highway down the Mackenzie Valley at some point in time would certainly increase the tourism potential, as well as the Tuk-Inuvik highway as well. Certainly, we’ll continue to push on with those objectives as well.
MLA Bouchard talked about the Business Incentive Policy, and we’ve had some discussions here in this House during this session with Members in regard to the Business Incentive Policy and we’ve done a number of revisions to that policy over the years. The last was in 2010 and we’ve made some changes to it that we thought would address the larger contracts and where the work went, and there was the Inuvik Billy Moore situation. Those types of situations we have to ensure aren’t happening and we’ve got to try to keep the money in the Northwest Territories wherever possible and I agree with what the Members were saying. I know MLA Bouchard is a big champion of keeping as much money North as we can and I agree with him on that. I think through the Business Incentive Policy we’re going to try to maintain that. It’s a GNWT policy and each department is responsible for the implementation of it, administers it through its contracts. But we can always look and continue to see how it can be improved. It is a government policy and that’s something we can always look at.
Again, MLA Bouchard talked about decentralization as well. That is something that is going to move forward and maybe I’ll just mention this again, but if we’re looking at just one position here or one position there – I had mentioned this to MLA Moses earlier – we should take more of a comprehensive look at it – and I think that is going to happen, and it is happening – before we get just picking off one position here, one position there. I think a comprehensive look at the whole picture will be better suited for us.
BDIC, yes, MLA Bouchard talked about the BDIC and reviewing limits and approval of larger loans, and that’s something currently that’s in the works. There’s a review going on conducted by the program review office and we also have had a request recently. So that’s going to initiate how that can happen, and how the BDIC may be able to look at approving larger loans as we go forward and as the economy grows here in the Northwest Territories I think it’s important that we take a look at how capital can get into the hands of the companies that are employing people and growing the economy in the NWT.
On the Mackenzie Gas Project, nobody is ready to throw the towel in on the MGP. We continue to be optimistic that it will go ahead at some point in time. We’re currently working with committee on a review of the office in Hay River and certainly we look forward to continuing to do that and moving things along.
Just to address Mr. Bromley’s concerns, obviously there has been a decrease on energy initiatives and that’s where the big decrease comes at ITI. I think looking forward we need to refocus and regroup. Obviously, our financial situation isn’t at a point where we can make large, substantial investments in areas like that, but we are trying to refocus as a government and come up with a better, more coordinated effort pertaining to energy and coordinating those efforts government wide. It’s important that we can get there. I believe working with the other Ministers in the MECC we can achieve some things here moving forward.
I agree with the Member on the increasing employment opportunities where they’re needed and they’re needed mostly in small communities, obviously, some with some very high unemployment levels and we need to address that head on. We also need to continue to support the traditional economy again. I think that has a great opportunity for employment in small communities.
In renewable energy and biomass, as we go forward, I think there’s a lot of opportunity there as well. Agriculture as well. I think we’ve seen an advancement especially in the area of eggs and farming south of the lake. Very exciting and encouraging. Also the money that we’ve put into the local fish and meat processing I think is important as well because it helps get that product into the homes of people here in the Northwest Territories.
I think I’ve covered everything, but I’d be more than happy to get into more detail as we go through the budget.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Seeing that we’re concluded with general comments, does the committee agree to proceed into detail?
Agreed.
Thank you. Page 12-7 we’ll be deferring until after consideration of detail. Page 12-8, Industry, Tourism and Investment, department summary, information item, infrastructure investment summary.
Agreed.
Thank you. Page 12-9, Industry, Tourism and Investment, department summary, information item, revenue summary.
Agreed.
Thank you. Page 12-10, Industry, Tourism and Investment, department summary, information item, active position summary.
Agreed.
Thank you. Page 12-11, Industry, Tourism and Investment, department summary, information item, active positions, Business Development Investment Corporation.
Agreed.
Thank you. Page 12-13, Industry, Tourism and Investment, activity summary, corporate management, operations expenditure summary, $7.745 million.
Agreed.
Thank you. Page 12-14, Industry, Tourism and Investment, activity summary, information item, corporate management, active positions.
Agreed.
Thank you. Page 12-17, Industry, Tourism and Investment, activity summary, minerals and petroleum resources, operations expenditure summary, $6.802 million. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I had a couple questions on this page. First of all, there’s quite an increase on the contract services budget and I’m wondering if I can get an explanation of what the intention is for those extra dollars in contract services.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The increase there would be because of the advancement of the Mineral Development Strategy.
Thank you for that confirmation. I guess on the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline office, I see we’ve had quite an increase over the last couple of years. Obviously, this project is clearly shelved for the predictable future. I’m all for the Minister, let’s hope that something happens, but for the meantime we have a lot of competing demands on our resources. This would be, to me, a completely appropriate place to get the dollars for a minerals strategy. I’m wondering, I think we can use the human resources within this office in much better ways, given the Mackenzie Gas Project situation. The sign of pursuing things that are dead, or beating on a dead horse, as the expression is, are not appreciated by a public that sees a lot of competing demands for resources. We need to recognize that objectively, be prepared, and I think we’ve done an extraordinary amount of work and are prepared should the proposals get serious again, and redirect those resources in productive ways. Refusing to recognize that again is not appreciated. I welcome a response from the Minister on that.
Through business plans we heard the concerns from the Members and we have taken steps to review the office in Hay River. We’ve come back to committee. We’re in the process of working through that and we hope to continue to move forward. I appreciate the Member’s comments, but I’ve given a commitment to do that and I will continue to pursue that.
I’m glad that process is underway. I hope we will see some reallocation of those dollars. My last question on this page, the minerals, oil and gas up considerably again. Is that related to the contract services and the mineral strategy again?
No further questions. Thank you.
