Thank you, Mr. Chair. To my left is Penny Ballantyne, secretary to Cabinet; to my right is Mark Warren, assistant deputy minister for the Executive.
Thank you, Premier McLeod. Thank you, Ms. Ballantyne and Mr. Warren. Welcome to committee. With that, we’re going to be going, committee, to general comments on the Executive. General comments. Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to ask the Minister about the relationships we have with the Aboriginal governments. I know we have an Engagement Strategy. I guess it’s two-pronged. One, are we going to continue to support the efforts made by this government to strengthen our relationship with the Aboriginal governments right across the North? It’s pretty diversified and quite challenging. However, this should be strengthening our employees to not be so complacent and go out and expand their ability to look at different points of view, the different nations and different governments. We are on Aboriginal land, so come around to those types of issues. We also go to work together. That’s the end goal for these 42,000 people we have in the Northwest Territories. The big ticket prize is Ottawa. We have to keep our eye on that. How do we stay together? Sometimes we have to walk together, not one too far ahead of the other. I’m going to ask the Minister on those type of discussions that we have with our Aboriginal governments.
The other area I want to ask is: How do we work effectively and efficiently with the people in Ottawa? The Minister talked about our relationship and we have a Federal Engagement Strategy with the Conservative government, Mr. Harper. They’re in power. They have the numbers. They certainly have given us some fairly good money to do some things here. I think we have a relationship that we know we can continue to benefit from. Sometimes I really don’t like what they’re doing, sometimes, but I guess Ottawa has more than the Territories to look after. I’d like to see how we can effectively use whatever tools we have in Ottawa to advance our initiatives such as territorial-wide projects like the Mackenzie Valley Highway, the fibre optic link and the hydro. Things like that on a big scale. The biggest one, the Premier and I had the pleasure of witnessing the signature of another Aboriginal government to sign on to devolution. Congratulations there, Mr. Premier. I don’t know how you did it, but you did it, and I don’t want to know how. I just want to say that to you.
That brings me to how we govern ourselves here with this. I look forward to the lands that are going to be under our jurisdiction. There’s a land use framework on how we use those types of tools that we have. The Crown lands are now going to be over to the territorial government. How are we going to work on those issues with our Aboriginal governments who are in settled and unsettled land claim issues? That’s going to be really challenging for the Cabinet. You need all of us to move on these type of issues here. I think that’s something that we need to be cognizant of.
My other comments are with the self-government negotiations. More specifically the one that’s close to signing in my region is the Deline self-government arrangements. I’ve talked to some of the Members and they’re pretty optimistic. They’re looking at maybe two years. I’m not too sure. I’m not involved in the day-to-day, face-to-face negotiations. All I get are briefings from the government here or when I go to Deline. They tell me about some of the stuff and they think they can come through that with some type of agreement. The Deline self-government negotiations are something that is an interest of mine, and I’m not too sure if I will be able to see or will see an LP, legislative proposal, to give the final sanction to that piece there. I know the other communities in my region are working on different levels of self-government, so we’ll continue working on that.
I wanted to also talk to the department here on Aboriginal governments on the duty to consult and accommodate when appropriate to the Aboriginal people and their treaty rights. Especially to the treaty rights. They’re very important. There are different views of the treaty rights; however, when you go to the communities, the honour of the Crown is always at stake, and we have to be very careful when we go into areas that we may have to consult a little further and accommodate some of those issues here.
I think for myself those areas that I wanted to touch upon, the last one is the issue of – I’m not too sure if this is the department to talk about decentralization. We know devolution is being negotiated. They are looking at positions in the North. We just now have 95 percent completion of our budget for this year. I have with me some information from the research that I asked for and I looked at… Maybe I should talk about it with the Department of Finance, but I wanted the Premier to know through Executive, that when you look at the positions being added to the GNWT this year, there are 62 new full-time positions and 66 part-time positions being added to the GNWT’s budget. Of that, there are notes here I can share, that there’s 57 full-time and two part-time positions being added to Yellowknife, according to the numbers here. You can check them for yourself, but that’s about $7 million being added to the economy in Yellowknife. When you look at positions being added to the regions and the small communities, there’s five full-time and four part-time. That’s about $738,000. There’s a great disparity, a huge gap.
I’m going to ask probably the, I don’t know if it’s this Minister or the next Minister about decentralization, because right now it doesn’t look too good or favourable on our side. These positions are now pretty huge and they’re all being added to the Yellowknife economy, nothing in our community. I can’t wait for you to come out with a decentralization policy while this is happening. I’m awake here. I have to make sure that we get our fair share in the region, and get our fair share in the communities. I want to ask you: Is this what we mean by decentralization? It’s already happening. It’s right in the budget here. It’s black and white. The positions are coming to Yellowknife. There are 62 added to the budget, 57 of them added to Yellowknife, and two part-time. The regions and communities are getting five full-time and four part-time in the regional centres and small communities. I don’t like what I’m seeing right here. I’m not too sure how we can start working on this and I would really like to see a policy that stops this, that says this is not good. We need to look at next year’s budget, hopefully, and I’m not too sure how devolution will affect this. You have $7 million coming into Yellowknife. That’s $7 million into the economy. That’s just on salary. That’s an estimate. I’m not too sure if that’s a correct number. That’s a lot of money that’s not coming to our regions and small communities. All we’re doing is building up Yellowknife. Building, building, building up Yellowknife.
My time is up. I’m tired.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Next on general comments I have Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It’s been a long day here. I’ll try to make these really brief and quick so that we can get into detail here. I just wanted to make some comments on the program review office, the good recommendations and the hard work that goes through there. It’s something that I don’t think we should take lightly within this government and start implementing some of those recommendations to make some of our departments more efficient, and spending the dollars that we do have wisely and with quality programs. The only review I’ve seen, I think there are some good recommendations that came out of there.
With the NGO Stabilization Fund, it’s good to continue to see that in there, but I believe for the amount of money that’s in there it doesn’t reflect the amount of applications, the amount of money that’s being asked for. In the terms of distribution across the Northwest Territories, I think there’s got to be a better model so that we can start supporting some of our regional centres and our smaller communities, as they are probably seeing some tough times trying to keep their organizations above ground and all continue to operate. I was glad to see that there are five new GSO positions. I hope each year that we get to add another one or two. They’re very helpful, especially in the small communities with some of our elders and others that are not too familiar with the process of filling out forms. They’re very helpful in getting those completed. They save time further on down the road.
In terms of devolution, just a little bit more information and updates would be good to get as they’re put out to the public. If not just for us, for the public, so that we know what’s going on. Even maybe from the office itself, the implementation team, any challenges that they have speaking or working with the communities.
Something that I’ve brought up before is the Forging the Future Conference that was done last Assembly, and possibly taking the role on, because we had some really strong youth leaders who made some really good contributions, some good feedback, some good recommendations, that I think they wanted to see some action too and they did bring it to the Legislature and I think we should follow up on that.
These are just some quick, basic ones and as we get into detail I’ll have more questions. Seeing as we got a long night here, I just wanted to keep it short.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Moving on, I have Mr. Blake.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to commend the Executive on what was mentioned; the single-window service centres that are in some of the communities there. I know there’s been great success in Aklavik and I’m glad to see that extending to another five communities, including Tsiigehtchic. I think that’s a very good initiative by the department and I look forward to the outcome of that.
Thank you, Mr. Blake. General comments. Mr. Bouchard.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a couple of brief comments as well. I think one of the biggest factors in this department is devolution. I think it’s one of the keys to the future of the Territories and one of the progressive things that we’re looking at doing. Along with this devolution are also the concerns of what that brings for the future, what existing things that we’re signing right now with the federal government, what will we be able to change, what will we not be able to change.
The other thing that one of my colleagues mentioned was decentralization and the potential of jobs for devolution. I’m a strong supporter of that concept of getting those jobs out to the regions, into groups where the communities can take on these jobs and be ready for them.
I think one of the tools that are available to us right now is the program review office. They have done some reviews of the government. It may be something that we want to extend out of that office, is to look at the viability and the operations that are currently happening in the federal government and what devolution can bring to the Territories. My feelings towards the program review office are kind of mixed. I think they do have some good ideas on some of the reviews. One of the reviews I don’t, that they just implemented, was this new office building in Yellowknife, which I strongly don’t support for several reasons and one of those reasons is decentralization where we’re going to build a bigger office in Yellowknife again, giving us more reason to have more offices and jobs in Yellowknife. I think it’s anti-productive to what I’d like to see the government doing as far as decentralization and moving the devolution jobs out to the regions.
Along with another colleague that talked about the NGO stabilization, I know there’s a pot of money there, but it seems like it’s not quite enough. It seems like – and I may be corrected here – they’re going to some of the larger organizations that are territorial organizations that are centralized in the capital. It would be nice to have some additional funding for out in the regions and the communities.
That is some of the concerns that I have in the current budget for this department. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. General comments. I have Mr. Nadli.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to make the point that I think, as we move with the negotiations of the devolution AIP, I know in the end I think the goal is to make sure that the government has an inclusive process, so that there is at least a successful understanding in terms of how things are going to work. My interest is to ensure that, as the former NDP leader said, we don’t leave anybody behind. For those purposes, my intention is to ensure that this leadership at least gives it a good try to address some of the fundamental differences and the challenges. If we are very skillful negotiators, then I think perhaps there could be some points of compromises from all sides.
That being said, I just wanted to point out that I think Detah was a beginning of a great process and resulting from that, we have the current Aboriginal Engagement Strategy. I’d like to see it continue. It’s a positive step and we need to build upon, at least, the milestones that have been achieved to date. I’d like to at least see maybe a progression of building upon that gathering that happened in October, and suggest and recommend to the Executive and the negotiators that are dealing with this file, to at least attempt to have a forum of some kind before the conclusion of an agreement-in-principle. That’s my only point I wanted to make.
Thank you, Mr. Nadli. General comments. Seeing that we’re finished, we’re going to give the opportunity for Premier McLeod to respond to general comments. Mr. McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Members, for your comments. Perhaps the best approach is to address each of the comments raised by the individual MLAs.
With regard to relationship with Aboriginal governments and our employees, this is something that we’ve taken as a very important priority. We will be releasing our Aboriginal Engagement Strategy, I think maybe tomorrow. The reason we haven’t released it yet is we were translating into all of the Aboriginal languages. We’ve managed to get that done now. Our whole Aboriginal Engagement Strategy is based on respect, recognition and responsibility. We’re going to follow that; not only our government, we are also going to have our employees follow that approach. We’ve developed a handbook that we’re hoping to get some feedback from and that we can release. As well, we will be providing public information and providing awareness and public education on Aboriginal rights and treaties so people can understand all of those issues.
With regard to Ottawa, everywhere I go, everybody I talk to, I say wouldn’t it be nice if we could to together in Ottawa to pursue our objectives, and we can accomplish a lot more by doing so. In dealing with Ottawa, I think we have a good relationship with Ottawa. Right now, we are finalizing a Federal Engagement Strategy. We have some very big priorities that we need to work with the Government of Canada to make happen, the issues that you raised.
The Sahtu and how we govern ourselves, the land use framework, this is something that we’re working very hard. We’re working on the Land Use Sustainability Framework. Through Section 6 of the agreement-in-principle we are going to be working with all Aboriginal governments to see how we’re going to work together. I think we are looking at everybody being responsible for their own areas of responsibility but we work together. In our experience, we want to work with all of the MLAs, because we find we have a lot more chances for success if we work with the MLAs and their regions and their constituency and their Aboriginal governments.
Self-government negotiations, I think we’re getting back on track. There were some issues, governance issues, but I think that we’re getting back on track. It is my expectation that in the 17th Assembly we’ll be signing off on a number of agreements.
Duty to consult, we’re covering that in the Federal Engagement Strategy, so you’ll be able to see what we’re doing there.
Decentralization, I think this is a very sensitive area, because we can’t just go out and start moving positions. We have to have a process. We have to take into account that there are sensitivities with our employees, so we have to have a process where for priorities, for those that don’t move with decentralization. We are working with all the deputy ministers right now to identify potential areas for devolution. The numbers that you quoted, I think if you read the whole report you’ll see it’s not 62 positions. It’s 31 positions, which is still a lot. It gives us a greater chance for success with decentralization because there are more positions. I think that is only a 0.6 percent increase. It’s our expectation that we can work on the plan. We’re going to work with committee and I think that we will work on it over the summer, and I think that we’ll have some idea where we’re going to go in the fall.
With regard to some of the other comments, the program review office, as I said, we’re giving them direction, and with the direction that we give them, if they make recommendations, then we have to deal with the recommendations if it’s going to be useful.
The NGO Stabilization Fund, I think we’ve tightened up the criteria. We put out the requests earlier. We’re hoping to get the money out earlier. It’s a tough one because the demand is always a lot more than the money we have.
Similarly, with the general services officers, I think we’d like to see more and we’ll continue to try to find this. It’s certainly a good way to get people into the smaller communities.
Devolution implementation, we’ll be working on that and we’re prepared to present at every opportunity to committees.
Forging the Future, I talked about that in the past. We want to continue but we want to put our own brand, the 17th Assembly brand on it.
Decentralization, as a government, we’re not here to make excuses. We’re here to get things done, so we’re going to be working on that.
With regard to being inclusive, don’t leave anybody behind. We’re reaching out to everybody to find common ground. As I said, in the seven months or eight months that we’ve been here, I’ve met with 21 Aboriginal governments. I’ve had 21 meetings with Aboriginal governments, so we’re reaching out and we’re certainly prepared to build on milestones, and we are going to be responding to your request for an October forum very shortly. Thank you.
Thank you, Premier McLeod. General comments are concluded. Does committee wish to proceed to detail?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. I’ll turn over to page 2-7. We’ll be deferring that until consideration of detail. If I can get you to turn to page 2-8, Executive, information item, infrastructure investment summary. Any questions?
Agreed.
Page 2-9, Executive, information item, revenue summary. Mr. Yakeleya.
Mr. Chair, just on the federal government’s contribution to support activities between Devolution Agreement-in-Principle, the Minister has indicated $2 million. So this number here, is this number still… When you divided up to the Inuvialuit, the Metis Nation and Sahtu and ourselves, just part of some of the Aboriginal governments have not yet to date decided to sign on. Is this for all of us that who are signing on to the negotiations? I’m just trying to figure out where this money is, how much is left of it. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister McLeod.
Mr. Chair, later on in one of the pages is where the money is for the Aboriginal governments. This is the contribution from the federal government to our government for implementation planning. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chair, would the implementation planning involve the Aboriginal governments that signed on with the GNWT to do the planning post-devolution, et cetera, on this planning?
Mr. Chair, that is correct.
Page 2-9, Executive, information item, revenue summary.
Agreed.
Thank you. Page 2-10, Executive, information item, active position summary. Are there any questions?
Agreed.
Thank you. Page 2-11, Executive, action item, directorate, operations expenditures. Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a couple of questions here. I want to revisit the issue of decentralization. I thank the Premier for his remarks and his comments. I understand that the government is looking at how the project, for lack of a better word, will be rolled out, how various departments are going to try and analyze who can be moved, what can be moved and when. There is some indication, I guess, that there might be something this fall that maybe committee will be able to have a look at.
My concern at this point is committees have no opportunity to consider what criteria the government is using to determine whether or not a particular position could or should be moved. We have discussed decentralization a lot. There is an awful lot of interest on this side of the House that jobs be moved into the communities, kind of an economic stimulus. I don’t disagree with that, but I do have some concerns about how the decisions are being made about which positions would be moved and where they might go. Each position has relatively specific needs attached to it. Could I ask the Minister to kind of give me some idea as to what critera are we… Or are there criteria that are being used as you deliberate this issue? If so, what are they? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister McLeod.
Mr. Chair, we have no criteria right now. What we have done is we have requested deputies to identify potential areas that perhaps could be eligible for decentralization at some point. We are doing some work, identifying inventories of office space and housing that is available throughout the Territories. We are getting requests from MLAs that we should decentralize immediately.
I have indicated that we are going to work with committee. Certainly, for those centres that have office space and houses, the likelihood is that we probably could move fairly quickly, but we are going to work with committee to establish criteria and to agree upon a process going forward.
There are a number of things that we have to take into consideration. First and foremost are our employees. People are already asking questions about where their jobs are going to be moved. We have to be very careful. We have to have a plan. We have to be strategic. We have to make sure that there is agreement. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chair, thanks to the Minister for the information. I appreciate that there are many factors that have to be considered. I’m not one that feels that we should rush into this. That’s why I asked whether or not there are criteria. I’m pleased that criteria will be developed. In my mind, office space and housing are absolutely two of the most major things in terms of moving positions outside of Yellowknife. To the opportunity for committee to provide some input into the criteria that will determine how and when positions would be moved, is there going to be that opportunity and when? Thank you.
Mr. Chair, I think that is something that we need to discuss with committee. In my view, we need to find a way to meet this summer, if possible. I believe I have written to committee indicating that. If I haven’t already, I will be writing soon. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chair, I look forward to the maybe anticipated letter to come or one that we already have and haven’t seen. I appreciate the commitment of the Minister to involve committee. If we have to meet this summer, that could be rather difficult, but I look forward to the invitation for us to provide our advice. Thank you. I am done.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Moving on to questions, I have Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to start off with the office of devolution, if I could too. I am just wondering what is the expected life of this. We start off anticipating a long haul and now we hear negotiations are done this fall, expected to be a final agreement in place. I imagine it will take some time for implementation. I’m wondering what the expected life of this new division is. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister McLeod.
Mr. Chair, the Member is correct; that is our expectation. Right now implementation planning will sunset 2013-14 and April 1, 2014, is the effective date. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chair, it’s great to get specific information. It is rare. Thanks to the Premier for that. That was very good.
Without trying to be hyperbolic or maybe I should say without trying to be too hyperbolic, will the Premier lead the charge in asking all of our residents what they want for a unique northern and responsible land and resource management regime, asking them what comprises, in their minds, economically, socially and environmentally sustainable land and resource management? Thank you.
Mr. Chair, my expectation is that we will do that in due course. Thank you.
Mr. Chair, I’ll shift it to the other extreme here. From the 1st of April 2014, to due course. Is there any way the Premier could hone in a little more on that? The reason I ask is that I have long said, and many people have said, that it would have informed our negotiations, for one thing. Obviously, it’s pretty late in the game for that now, but it could be very important to implementation and to decisions on what sort of model we follow, for example, in taking down authority. Leaving it to later will be too late. Thank you.
There could be a number of different ways to do it. I think, first and foremost, we have to decide on which approach we’re going to take. If we take a delegated approach, then we have some discussion paper approach we could have. We are working on one outlining our perspective with regard to land use, so sustainability framework. Similarly, if we go with mirror legislation or through the MVRMA, I think there will be limited opportunity to change it because of the fact that it’s premised on land claim agreements. I think the best avenue would be through our Land Use Sustainability Framework. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks for the comments from the Premier. The point being here, the residents of the Northwest Territories, perhaps rationally in the mind of the Premier, would like input on this. That’s a big decision and a decision that’s made on behalf of the people of the Northwest Territories. I’d say it’s very irresponsible not to go to our people and have their input on that, especially as this government is on record, as are our partner governments at all levels, at criticizing the federal land management regime. Thank you.
The previous Assembly spent, as far as I recall, about $800,000 going through a process to get input from people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I don’t know where to begin in response to that, Mr. Chair, other than give up, I guess.
I’ll take that as a comment, Mr. Bromley. Going back to Ms. Bisaro.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I did forget I wanted to ask a question with regard to a recommendation from the Auditor General’s most recent report. It was a follow-up on four audits that had been previously done. Within their report, they made three recommendations that apply across government, and I bring it up here at the Executive because the Executive, under the directorate, states that it is responsible for the implementation of government-wide direction. The Auditor General identified three barriers to the operation of the government that are barriers to effective program management. They were: inadequate information to manage programs and make decisions; insufficient monitoring of third-party program delivery; and an absence of detailed action plans to implement audit recommendations. The suggestion of the Auditor General was that this needed to be dealt with government-wide. I’d like to ask the Minister whether or not he agrees with the Auditor General that this is something that his department needs to take hold of and take responsibility for. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Premier McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. My previous view was that I thought we had sufficient oversight. We have an audit committee that is chaired by a number of deputies and involves the Audit Bureau. We have a number of other checks and balances. I communicated that to committee; committee felt that was unacceptable. We agreed with committee and are taking steps to provide the necessary oversight to address all of those shortfalls that the Member has read out to us. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to the Minister. What sorts of steps are being taken? How will these three inadequacies be addressed? Thank you.
