Thank you very much, Mr. Nadli. Next I have Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Madam Chair. You’ve heard a lot of comments already, so I’m just going to keep mine really general, not general but to the point and try to keep it short.
There are concerns in Inuvik. Anyone who has been up there and driven from the airport to the community of Inuvik, there are a lot of areas that still need some attending to. In some cases it can be pretty dangerous, depending on the speed that you’re driving.
I also believe the Minister is quite well aware of the runway issues we had and the sinkhole that appeared not too long ago. We need to address those and that whole system to prevent any further damage.
This past year is the first time that we’ve tried the ferry operations. I know we’ve had updates in terms of dates of closure. It was a lot better than when we actually had to wait for the ice road. There were some good statistics when we had those briefings; however, I wouldn’t mind working with the department to see how we might be able to address upgrades to the Louis Cardinal ferry or the option of bringing the Merv Hardie down, as well, to make those days that we do have even longer, the days that the road is open.
You’ve heard about the Highway Strategy. There was mention of that. I’m not sure if committee has seen that strategy.
Lastly, with the Inuvik-Tuk highway, some good comments on that. I had a good update on the weekend when I was back home. The work that’s going into that is pretty amazing. Not only that, but the amount of guys who are working on that road, it’s quite nice to see.
Lastly, we lost the Coast Guard in Inuvik, the building, not too long ago. Now with this Inuvik-Tuk highway opening up and we talk about Arctic sovereignty and the waters opening up and we’re getting more vessels through the Northwest Passage, I wouldn’t mind if the Minister could open up communications with his federal counterpart to see if we can bring the Coast Guard office back to Inuvik. Like we said, the waters are opening up and we are getting coast to coast in terms of building the Inuvik-Tuk highway and I think it’s a great opportunity to make that a station once again. I wouldn’t mind seeing what the Minister has to say on addressing that concern. That’s it. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Maybe some repetition here. The Green Light document on the environmental plan for the department I’d like to get an update on that, an evaluation of whether we are achieving those goals and objectives.
I’m also interested in the Inuvik and Hay River runway issues related to the loss of permafrost and other perhaps unknown underground issues. I’d like to know where we’re at in terms of schedule for a comprehensive assessment. I know we’ve done some short-term maintenance and whatnot, two or three million dollars’ worth of work. What capacity are we developing for forecasting these issues? These things are happening, but what are we doing on the front end, on the progressive side, to assess the basis of our runways and try to anticipate where the issues might be and see what we can do for preventative work?
I see on highways that our management costs are declining. I’m not one to complain about that, but a significant decline over the last couple of years. I’m wondering whether there’s an improvement of efficiencies or have we dropped a director level position or something there? It’s not something you commonly see in budgets these days, so I thought I’d find out what’s happening there.
I see the Deh Cho Bridge grant, Fort Providence, $200,000 a year continues and I’m wondering if the Minister can remind me for how long this goes on and what the purpose is. I think the Member for Deh Cho raised some good questions. Personally, I think it was unfortunate that we tried to use this as economic development for Fort Providence, knowing what the area has. It’s amazing country and has great opportunities for economic development. I can’t see what a bridge, no matter how big it is, might bring in terms of economic development. Apparently, we are funding that, a million bucks every five years for the community. What are we seeing there? How long is that going on and what are we seeing there in terms of the original intent of economic development for this community?
Roads and licensing, I have to say, because my last name starts with a B, I have also indirectly had some experience registering my vehicle through my wife. She’s really good on the computer. Pretty flawless process, so I wanted to give a nod to the department. I think that’s really going to bring some efficiencies and I know a lot of people are appreciating that.
I believe we’re talking about legislation that gets rid of the stickers, so we won’t even have to wait for the stickers to arrive in the mail soon, perhaps.
I also noticed that the safety and regulation funding is declining, again unlike most line items. I would like to know what’s happening on that front. That seems like a real priority area, but again, perhaps it’s through efficiencies through the computerized services for drivers and motor vehicles. What’s happening there?
Winter roads, I know our costs are generally going up as it becomes more problematic, although there is high variation, as is expected, from year to year. Certainly, with the increased industry traffic in some areas, the potential for damage to roads has unintended consequences for residents, so I think there are lots of questions there.
The department notes in the Minister’s statement here that there is increased enforcement, which I think is appropriate, given some of the horror stories we’ve heard. I’d like to get an update on how many infractions we’re seeing and ticketing on the winter road, for example, in Sahtu this year compared to last year, to give us the assurance that, in fact, we are doing something there, and how many patrols and so on.
We’ve heard for a number of years about the big umbrella Transportation Strategy or plan. It doesn’t seem to be materializing. I didn’t see it mentioned in the Minister’s statement. Maybe I missed that. I know Members certainly have supported that, would like to see it done and I’m hoping that it would include consideration of railroads as one of our options. I know there are some mines that are talking about using that, the one in Tlicho area, for example, and possibly the mine north of the lake here for rare earth metals. I’d like to see it include an assessment of the maintenance deficit for our transportation infrastructure and what the cost is of a so-called balanced approach that we’re taking right now that favours new, very expensive to build and maintain projects over maintaining existing infrastructure. I’m hoping that we can hear from the Minister that this Transportation Strategy that should have materialized would include consideration of those subjects amongst many others. I’m going to leave it at that, Madam Chair. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Any further general comments? Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Madam Chair. When you’re near the end of general comments, it hardly leaves anything left to provide a fresh perspective. Rather than going through them all at great length, I will just quickly reaffirm a couple of them very quickly in the sense of I’ll just go over them this way.
I support the concerns highlighted by the Inuvik-Tuk highway raised by Members. I think that’s a project that we have to keep a close eye on. I certainly, and still do, support the concept and the initiative, and it’s just a matter of watching the costs. It’s been raised by Members, not particularly by myself but I would say that I do support the intent. There has been talk about ways of spreading this project out over a few more years as opposed to trying to rush and get it all done at once, to ensure we spread the employment benefits of it out further so they become meaningful employment rather than quick jobs for everyone and then no jobs. I think that’s something we need to look at. It doesn’t mean I necessarily fully support that concept; it just means that I think it’s a very good one to talk about and certainly take a good look at.
The YK Airport is a perennial issue for me that our runway, I still think, is not at the length it should be. I think that we really need to start doing a broader view of where the Yellowknife runway should be and where it needs to be in 10 years. There has always been talk about extending the runway and moving the airport services to the other side. I think what we really need to do is maybe kick off a strategy here and say, what should the needs be at this airport for the next 10 to 20 years in the sense of we are targeting for development but really define it as where do we want to be for the next 50 years as a service to the people of the North. Of course, extension of runway means more economic development opportunities. That is an infrastructure that I think if we put some focus in on with the federal government, we could be looking at dollars there, but I’m not the right person here. I would say that these are skills and areas that people within the Department of Transportation would be much better suited, or better skilled and more knowledgeable than I about where to look for potential dollars. I think it’s a real missed opportunity to continue to ignore it. I’ve raised this issue for 10 years. There have been studies about expanding it. Again, I’m not sure we’ve really spent the energy in the area that we could.
One last thing on this particular area, be it extension of the runway, every time I see in the news about how Iqaluit does cold weather testing, I think, why isn’t this us? When I look at their weather in Iqaluit, it’s frustrating, but yet, at the same time, it’s kind of weird how we always seem to be colder than them and they do all the cold weather testing. This could end up building into a partnership with the Department of ITI about trying to draw new clientele to the Northwest Territories for new money. That’s often the difficult challenge of bringing new money into a district where the money keeps circulating. We want new cash in our Northwest Territories. It doesn’t matter where it’s going; we just need it in our coffers. I would encourage the government at large to consider trying to reach out to the world as a cold weather testing region. I say that because almost every winter we see cars come up here in a bevy of beamers, a flock of BMWs or whatever little synonym sort of process you want to use to describe them, but quite frankly, we see quite a few of these vehicles, so why aren’t we extending them to all manufacturers on these types of things?
Although that’s not Transportation-specific, what I think, though, is at the same time we could give a true experience to these folks. I mean, we have ice roads. Wouldn’t it be neat to run four or five of those, assuming they could make it, but four or five of those Porsches up to the Ekati diamond mine? They could really test the vehicle on some of the coldest, hardest terrain to drive on. Maybe they’ll be next year’s TV movie about cold. We could call it the Cold Weather Testing Show or whatever. I’m not in the movie business, but somebody smarter than I could come up with a better name. There is a real opportunity there. We could do speed testing if we had our machinery out on some of these big lakes plowing for these folks and catering to them. We could draw a new economic opportunity. It wouldn’t necessarily, like I say, fall strictly on the shoulders of Transportation, but I think Transportation, working with ITI, could look at new opportunities. Again, that’s airline. It could be car. There are probably more ideas as well.
The next thing I would like to remind the Minister and the department is Members are still waiting for what I would define as a tangible Transportation Strategy. We sit and continue to wait. This is something we’ve been asking for, for a number of years. Quite frankly, it seems as if new roads are more important than the old roads and the old roads are certainly in some… I’m not even sure we can define them as roads some days. It depends on what region you live in and how important those roads are it seems some days. We really need that detail to be making good choices. I think, as well, it illustrates to the people of the Northwest Territories that when we get our attention drawn by a nice, new, shiny booklet that tells us about this new infrastructure, we don’t forget about the old infrastructure and that it continues to be maintained, needs to be maintained.
Just quickly through the next two subjects, which is I support the development of the on-line registry. I don’t think I was the only one who brought it forward in the past, but I know I brought it forward. I think if the department wants more good ideas, I have a lot more, so feel free to keep listening.
I think that, just finishing off, I do want to support the concerns highlighted by my colleagues about the Deh Cho Bridge, but there is one in particular that I still want to exercise frustration. I had asked for the Department of Transportation, the old Minister refused and the old, old Minister refused about this, about showing the cost of living of goods and how they may change the toll system, and both Ministers scoffed at the concept, one right after the other. It was quite disappointing.
Many northern residents in the Yellowknife region were horrified by the new prices on how they spiked all of a sudden. Guess who they blamed? The Northwest Territories government. What do they blame? Oh, the bridge Yellowknife wanted. Quite frankly, Yellowknifers wanted it, but we always tend to forget that it was the town of Fort Providence that came forward pounding on the door and said, we will be the lead of this. First of all, it’s not about blaming, but don’t forget Fort Providence was part of the trigger of why we have the bridge. But it’s not about that, per se; it’s also about the fact that the trucking companies are now putting the costs and their extra little revenues they want to make, and stores are putting their extra revenues they make and they all point back to, oh my goodness, it’s the cost of driving that truck across the bridge and that’s why these things cost so much money. When you do the math on some of these products that they are saying and blaming solely on the cost of that bridge and the bridge toll, you’re finding out that they are charging four, five, six, seven, eight, nine times more than what the toll actually should have had an effect on it. I think that’s quite frustrating when you’re a consumer and you’re always raising the cost of living here.
This government has done nothing to show the cost of living really matters. Any time they refute that, they’ll turn and say, oh, but we’re maintaining it. Just think if the work we didn’t do, where would it be next?
Of course, the final point on the Deh Cho Bridge is last year – I think it was last year – there was a bit of a shock regarding the fact that stores had to reduce their load to somewhere in the range of 75 percent capacity without any notice. I certainly hope that those who learned the lesson through the school of hard knocks have been given some notice and certainly a reminder, and I would encourage the Department of Transportation to get out there even through some type of media radio campaign, reminding people in the North Slave that we have restricted load levels because of permafrost changes in the season, things we’ve never encouraged before, I would encourage them, once again, to remind our northern businesses that this may be something they need to plan for accordingly. It did come as a shock and until it becomes business as usual, it may be still be a shock the second time around.
That said, those are just a few brief comments. I look forward to going page by page and detail. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. General comments. No further general comments. I will now turn the floor over to Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Very quickly, I’ll start off with the ferry, asked by MLA Blake, the Louis Cardinal ferry. The department is conducting a review of what has occurred at the ferry, trying to close the gap completely between the spring season and the winter season so that we’re able to move traffic through there every day. We were not successful in that, but we managed to get the heavy vehicles moving across the Mackenzie at Tsiigehtchic in 30 days as opposed to what was normally about an 80-day shutdown.
This year we have plans to discuss with the community… Some of the people had asked us when we went to Tsiigehtchic, to try to look at talking about the traditional knowledge that’s in the community and how we could maybe get the ice bridge in sooner than even this year.
What had happened was this was a completely different situation than the way that we did it in Fort Providence in the past. The water didn’t move as quickly in this area as it did where we keep the ferry operational in Fort Providence. It had really nothing to do with the ferry itself. Both the Louis Cardinal ferry and the Merv Hardie ferry would have been under the same issues. Merv Hardie would have had just as much difficulty crossing.
The community was concerned a bit about the damage to the ferry and we, of course, are going to fix the ferry 100 percent before we put it back in the water. There was some damage. As a result, machinery needed to move the ice as we were moving across.
On the Dempster Highway the department is looking at the rehabilitation and reconstruction of the highway through our plan, which is Corridors for Canada III. We are still going through the details of Building Canada, Corridors for Canada III from the federal government. Once the final number is received from all of the possible funding sources that the federal government has in this area, we will then come up with some options to try to address our plan as best we can. That’s not only for the Dempster but for all of the highways that were in our Corridors for Canada III.
The department, since 2007, has put about $28 million to meet some priority reconstructing on the Dempster Highway. We know that there’s work needed on the highway and we continue to do that work.
On Highway No. 7, in recent years we’ve invested, again, about $12 million in capital, in addition to the regular maintenance that we’re doing on there to continue to try to improve the highway. We’ve had some effort on trying to improve and strengthen that highway from the BC border to the Nahanni turnoff where we anticipate some heavy traffic, so a lot of our effort has been in that area.
We will continue to concentrate on rehabilitating the road. The plan is to put additional investment into Highway No. 7 as part of Corridors for Canada III. Again, we are still waiting for more details on how we’re going to structure the money from the Canada Building Plan and how it translates into our plan, Corridors for Canada III.
On Highway No. 1, the Member wanted to get a little bit of detail on what was planned as far as the chipsealing goes. The plan is that from kilometre 81, which I believe is the turnoff to Fort Providence, out to I think it’s about 18 or 20 kilometres that we will be preparing and chipsealing that portion of the highway and also chipsealing from 395 to 411, which I believe is from Checkpoint to the ferry. Not Checkpoint, pardon me, Jean Marie. Sorry. I guess it is called Checkpoint, so we’ve been looking at chipsealing that portion of the highway.
The Corridors for Canada III proposes investments in Highway No. 1 to widen and reconstruct sections between the junction and Wrigley, as well, so from the Fort Simpson junction on to Wrigley.
On the Trout Lake Airport, the work on the new airport, construction of a new airport and longer runway at Trout Lake continues to be something that we are working with the community. There are some challenges, no question about it. Ourselves, the contractor and the community have faced some challenges with it, but we’re very confident and comfortable that we are progressing as we go. We are always working with the idea that we’re trying to maximize employment in the community and the training opportunities for the residents. Having that is another objective within the overall. It’s not just a capital project for us; the community wants to see some employment, some training opportunities.
In addition to that, there’s been, I guess, more rain than what we would like to have seen to be able to effectively do the project. There were also some delays as a result of some materials that we weren’t happy with.
In response to some of the questions MLA Yakeleya had, Bear River Bridge, DOT is constructing new permanent bridges and improving grade on the Mackenzie winter road to improve the abilities of residents to travel between the communities and provide safer highways, so we are doing a lot of that work, and some of the work remaining there long into the future in that Mackenzie Valley road is constructed. Some of the work we’re doing now will be incorporated into an all-season road. So we’re pleased with that.
The department completed the bridge design back quite a few years, 2006, which was estimated to cost about $70 million, in that area. So that’s the kind of money that we’re looking at for this one wide crossing on the Mackenzie Valley road and that is something that we’ve incorporated into our Corridors for Canada III and then, again as I repeat myself, we’re waiting for some of the final details on that before we move along.
We’re working with the resource development and industry and through the contribution agreements to increase the level of service on the Mackenzie winter road to accommodate the heavy traffic. So, because of the industry in there, we’re anticipating and are getting a large number of heavy traffic. So, as a department, we are working with industry to make sure that traffic is moving, that essential items that need to get into the Sahtu to see the work go there, gets in there in a safe manner and that industry is able to get the equipment and supplies they need in order to do the work that’s being done in that area. We have tried to assist the process not only with the road but increasing our presence in there with highway patrol officers. We’re establishing a list of mandatory equipment that commercial vehicles must have before being permitted on the winter road is something else we’re doing. We’ve improved the signage. MLA Yakeleya talked about the signage and we are improving the signage at all of the creek crossings, and distributed maps of the winter road, constructing wide-outs on the winter road to act as, I guess, hill climbing lanes for trucks and also rest areas.
The Member also spoke of the regional presence for the department in the Sahtu and in Norman Wells, or I guess in the Sahtu in general. We continue to review the option of establishing a regional operation for DOT in Norman Wells. At this time we don’t feel that a full regional office is needed in Norman Wells because there is no all-season highway. So we bring in some extra personnel during the winter road season and we feel that we have what’s necessary to continue the effective operation of the airport. So, at this time, it is difficult for us to justify an all-year-round regional office, a fully functional regional office, which would essentially just be an office that would take some of the positions, some of the other regions to build up, because right now we are doing the regional office work from, I think, on the airport, out of Inuvik and then for the winter season regional office is in Fort Simpson.
The department anticipates that once the decision is made and that we’re going to be constructing an all-season highway up the Mackenzie Valley, then we could see a regional office. It would be strategic and wise to put a regional office in Norman Wells at that time.
Ms. Bisaro supported our on-line service, as many of the MLAs have. We think that that’s something that’s going to be effective. Member Bouchard asked about expanding the on-line service and that is the intention. So the issue that the MLA brought forward here with commercial vehicles and permitting and so on, it was a bit of an issue with 24/7 operations. We are hoping that as the on-line service expands that we’re able to add commercial permitting and so on to the on-line service that we offer now.
MLA Bisaro asked about the Inuvik-Tuk highway and whether or not we would be on budget, that it may be difficult to be on budget. I guess the only way we can respond to that is to say that we have a budget that we’re working towards, we have a contract in place, we have a smaller contingency than we would like. With a project this size, we’d hope that there would be a contingency which is comparable to other projects of this magnitude, but we don’t have that here. But we’ve tried to cover as much of the costs as possible. We do recognize there’s a risk associated with this type of construction. There’s no prototype for us to follow. This is brand new technology that’s going in there and this type of highway has never been built anywhere previously. So with all of those unknowns, we took the best experts in this area and put them together and said, you know, they’ve come up with this plan that they think will work, we’re confident, we put the money into it and we’re proceeding. Only time will tell whether or not this Inuvik-Tuk highway will be on the original budget or not. So there are hopes that it will be.
She also asked about the retrospective analysis of the bridge, as did MLA Dolynny. We are currently doing a terms of reference for that, recognizing that maybe a promise was made to do the retrospective analysis on the completion of the bridge. We still have some deficiencies. We could essentially say, well, we’re just not 100 percent complete until all the deficiencies, or we could say that the bridge is complete with deficiencies this summer. In any event, the idea is to try to bring something that is useful to the table that takes a look at a document, an analysis that’s going to help us in the future, not just for the sake of putting an analysis together because we said we would do it in six months. But we want to put something together that’s going to be useful and useable for us as we move forward.
The central repair, there is no change in central repair. We’re not taking positions out of Hay River to move them into Yellowknife for central repair, but we are seeing that as our equipment ages and that we don’t really have the capital to be replacing all of the pieces of equipment that should be replaced, we are repairing this equipment. So putting a second office, a central repair in Yellowknife was the most economical thing we could do to extend the life of the equipment that we have. So this was not an attempt to remove anything from the regions, but just to try to make our equipment last a little bit longer.
The airport assessment is something that we are doing. Assessment of all of our airports will be done, and right now it’s a part of our airport O and M.
I’m just going to talk a bit about the tri-drive, and I’m going to ask the deputy minister to provide a little more detail on that. It’s a very technical area. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Deputy Minister Neudorf.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As the Member had indicated in the question, we do have a pilot underway right now. It’s a two-year pilot to look at tri-drive vehicles. We know that industry is asking for it. It can create great efficiencies and we would like to facilitate that. There are, of course, concerns from a safety perspective and then from a protecting the infrastructure, so the more weight on a truck, the more damage could potentially be done. That is why we’re doing this two-year pilot. It just got underway and so we don’t have any results of that yet, but we’re looking forward to the results as time goes on.
Thank you, deputy minister. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member also spoke about the winter road maintenance and what happens when there is heavier snowfall and so on and it blocks off the roads more than would be anticipated. We build those types of things into our contract, and on the other side, if the season went very well and it was colder than anticipated, then the highway could be extended beyond our contract. We tried to run some of the contracts and the ones down here to about March 31st, and they usually end within that fiscal year. If the road is extended well into April, as sometimes happens further up north, then it’s in the contract to do that. That it’s a public road and that we keep it open and we pay the contractor that we negotiate with on it.
MLA Dolynny talked a bit about the royalties. We are continuing to negotiate with IRC on the royalties. We are very comfortable and feel that the organization is being very reasonable and that whatever deal that we get between ourselves and the Inuvialuit is going to be something that would be beneficial to the project. They recognize that this is something that favours the region, but they also recognize it is something that is being built to Tuktoyaktuk and not really having a positive impact on Inuvialuit people of Ulukhaktok, Paulatuk and Sachs Harbour, and the Inuvialuit people in Aklavik, so those people are also part of the land claim. You can’t take away a royalty from individuals that are not benefitting directly from the highway. Tuk is. They recognize that. There are many Inuvialuit of their membership in Tuk and Inuvik, and so with that in mind, they were very reasonable and came up with something that they were comfortable with.
The audit on the toll of the Deh Cho Bridge as requested by the same Member, again, as I responded earlier, we‘d look at doing that. The first year where we did an audit, or I’m not sure we could really refer to it as an audit, but we did an evaluation and determined that we were slightly lower than anticipated for traffic, so there was less traffic there than we anticipated so our numbers were a little bit lower. This year it looks like we’re right on target.
Also, the idea of commercial plates on vehicles that are hauling personal trailers and so on and RVs and so on, we would look at that. Essentially, there is something to compare to with Alberta. Alberta is pretty wide open yet they have heavier weights and so on coming across. But we’re not Alberta; we’re the NWT. We set our own rules. We consider Yukon also has roads that come from the Yukon that end up over here, and BC, we have access directly. BC roads come directly into the NWT as well. We try to work with all jurisdictions and try to be as harmonious as possible when we’re developing a motor vehicles system right across the country. That’s something that we looked at and we know that it’s difficult to just let everyone go by even commercial, because the Member used an example of somebody going down to Hay River pulling a private vehicle and going down there. Well, it’s just as easy for that individual to say that they did some business while they were down there and write off the trip. At any event, I think we’re talking about $91, and that’s something that we’re, at this time, not prepared to remove.
There was mention of some deficiencies on the bridge. It’s not really a holdback. It was something that was a letter of comfort, or letter of credit from a bank and backed up by the Government of New Brunswick. They’re watching those expenditures since they’re paying for it, so when we put in a request to spend some of that money, we make sure that it’s something that’s going to meet the acid test for the government down there to be able to make the payment, so we’re cautious about what we put through.
Privatization of airports is something that came up. What may appear to be privatization is probably things that are passed on to an airport authority, and in the Northwest Territories there is only one airport that could possibly end up in an airport authority where there would be a profit. No other airport has enough use to be able to generate any sort of profit, so any airport other than Yellowknife that’s passed on to an airport authority would not be something that can operate without huge subsidies from the government, so it is essentially better for the government to continue to operate the airports.
The negotiated contract on the Inuvik-Tuk highway was also brought up, the negotiated contract and how it pertains to BIP. Well, first on the negotiated contract, we have a policy on negotiated contracts that we follow, so we do not bring other things into the mix. We follow that policy. When we negotiate a contract we have to have a policy. That’s the way the government does business. We had followed that policy to negotiate that contract. In as far as BIP goes, the Business Incentive Policy. The Business Incentive Policy, had it been applied to the Inuvik-Tuk highway, would have maxed at $500,000. That’s the maximum on BIP. The size of the project really doesn’t matter. On this project it would be a very, very small percentage. Putting that out and putting it to public tender and recognizing that on a project this size, an advantage we’re giving to a northern company that we’re trying to get to do the work, would be minimal, so it would have not been a good idea to put this out to tender because the BIP, even in its fullest application, would have only been a half a million dollars on a $230 million contract.
In as far as the individual Northerners going to the Joint Venture Group that’s building Inuvik-Tuk highway looking at the BIP, making an application and applying BIP, again, we negotiate a contract with these guys. They give us a list of companies that they’re going to use some Northerners in an attempt to try and use mostly northern. However, as a government, if we started going into every purchase, every procurement item that this company had and said you had to apply BIP, we would increase the cost of the highway.
On one hand, Members would want us to stay within budget. On the other hand, they want us to apply a policy that would increase the cost of the highway. We looked at this and said, the bottom line here is the most important, most essential thing. We think that the region is getting a benefit by us negotiating the contract. We’re going to let the contractor do the procurement and give us a list of the individual companies and individuals that they are hoping to use.
MLA Nadli talked about ambulance services. The Department of Health and Social Services, MACA and our department are working on a project. The Department of Health is bringing legislation forward on first responders. I think the Members recognize, as part of the Health Professions Act, that emergency responder service providers are one of the first three professions that are going forward. MACA is working with the communities on that. Right now, between the three departments, they are getting together with the community reps that would be affected by providing ambulance service. We are moving through the process and hopefully we will have something, and if we think it’s feasible and the best way to go, that’s what we’re going to do.
The Deh Cho Bridge, the deal was that we are providing $200,000 a year for the next 35 years to the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation. In addition to that, we’ve asked the community to provide us with an access road budget to keep the road open from the bridge back towards the lake where the people live. There are about six households or cabins out there that people are using. My understanding is that that road remained open all of this winter.
The airport in Fort Providence, it’s not that we don’t have the CARs people at that airport. I guess it’s a public airport. I’m not recalling all of the details that are around that airport, so I’m just going to have the deputy minister give a little briefing on the Fort Providence Airport. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Deputy Minister Neudorf.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Fort Providence Airport is one of the airports that DOT owns and operates. It’s maintained by our local highways staff. We have a highway camp in Fort Providence. There is no scheduled traffic into the airport, so it’s used for a charter basis. Fort Providence, of course, has a great all-weather road highway access. It’s there for whatever use there might be of the public. If there were ideas to expand, change that service, I think DOT would be willing to talk to whoever about any potential changes to the service. But just because Fort Providence is on the all-weather road, a relatively short distance to Yellowknife and to Hay River, it’s a smaller airport that we operate because of those things. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, deputy minister. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The airport road or road from Inuvik Airport into Inuvik is something that we’ve looked at. It’s something that we are looking at in Corridors for Canada III as part of the work that’s needed on the Dempster. At the time we were putting in Corridors for Canada, we had considered that portion of the road as part of the Dempster and the repairs that are needed. That is something we are looking at within that whole area of Corridors for Canada III. The airport sinkhole is something that we are aware of and definitely something that we will be repairing.
The Member talked a bit about ferry services. Again, I just want to reiterate that the Merv Hardie ferry in Fort Providence, a bigger ferry, mind you, would not have operated any more efficiently with the operation that we are trying to run all season at Tsiigehtchic. Definitely we have no issue with communicating with our federal counterparts in having that discussion with Coast Guard if Coast Guard is going to operate in Inuvik. Again, it would be a federal government decision, but if the Members wish for us to have that discussion, it would not hurt for us to have that discussion to see if that’s something they would contemplate.
I’m going to again go back to the deputy minister to talk a bit about the Green Light, as brought forward by Member Bromley. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Deputy Minister Neudorf.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Green Light is our strategy document for our environmental practices to talk about how DOT would like to operate from an environmental perspective. It is three or four years out now. We have not gone and done a retrospective on it, but in the next while, up to the five-year anniversary of the document, it would be a good idea to take a step back and refresh it to make sure that…report on how we’ve done in meeting the objectives in it and to relook at what we might want to do going forward.
I’d also note that, as part of our multi-modal Transportation Strategy work that we’ll undertake this coming year that Green Light will be incorporated as part of that work as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, deputy minister. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, on the management costs on highways and also safety regulations, Member Bromley was asking the reason why those two costs went down over the years. I’m just going to have the deputy minister do a response on those two areas.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Deputy Minister Neudorf.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Highways management side, the budgets were down from ‘13-14 mains to the current year of the proposed ‘14-15 mains mainly due to financial shared services and transferring some of the responsibilities from ourselves to the Department of Finance and then also a small adjustment related to procurement shared services.
In road licensing and safety, on safety and regulations there were a number of budgets, some increases due to Collective Agreement, increased cost due to the contract with Canadian Bank Note, the contractor that produces our drivers’ licence.
There was an internal budget realignment to move $150,000 from this budget used to pay the 24-7 contracting services from total permit services fees from safety and regulations program to the motor carrier services budget, so it was just an internal realignment.
There is also a decrease adjustment due to financial shared services and then, finally, there was an adjustment internal to DOT to centralize some software licensing on our Motor Vehicle Information System new DRIVE system centralizing just to have better management of the various software licences for that software. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, deputy minister. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation, Member Bromley asked how long the contract was in place for. I had indicated earlier, but just a quick repeat, it is a 35-year deal at $200,000 per year with the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation and that was to provide some sort of tourism development, economic development or any type of thing that may have been lost with the fact that when the ferry was there, the traffic was stopping in Providence, coming and going. Now that the people know that they don’t have to, unless they need to gas up, many of them go straight through on their way south on their way to other communities in the south of the NWT. This money was put in there, too, for the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation to develop something in that area to try to attract people still into Providence that is being lost as a result of the bridge.
The MLA also spoke a bit about looking at a railroad for the Transportation Strategy. I recall from a couple of years ago the Member asking the department to take a look at this as part of the overall Transportation Strategy. I don’t believe we have done that yet. That is next year. Again, we would look at that in the multi-modal Transportation Strategy that we would take a look at the railroad, as well, the feasibility of that being part of the transportation system.
The next one I have is the Inuvik to Tuk highway cost. Again, this was Member Hawkins asking about maybe what type of cost controls are in place and why not spread the costs over a longer period of time. Again, we looked at trying to build the road as quickly as possible. We need to get that highway built. We looked at that highway and determined that considering that the highway could only be constructed during small periods during the year, that there is no summer construction because of access to that area then in the summertime they will be working on the parts of the road that they have already constructed. This is a five-year project and we thought that was a fairly extended time, as well, and was as quickly as we could do it. Money flows in from the federal government. As the Members know, about two-thirds of the cost is coming from the federal government and they have cash flowed it over five years. We have matched our share into that same time period and we are hoping that the road can be built in five years. The thought of slowing it down and spreading it out over a longer period for employment purposes is something that was not a priority for us. Our priority was to build the road.
The YK Airport was brought up earlier by a Member. We have the program review office looking at our governance options. We’ve done several reviews of the airport and feasibility and what can be done to expand services, or the airport program to move to the other side of the airport and so on. Right now what is happening, the program review office is looking at all those reports and looking at if there is a better way to govern what is going on there, a better way, looking at options, looking at other governance options.
The cold weather testing that the Member spoke of is something that we actually have some involvement in. Recently, we have done some cold weather testing up here for helicopters, so that is something that we are looking at.
The strategy, again, some Members talked about briefings and updates, so again, I am going to have the deputy minister talk about the strategy, but I just have a couple of items here that I will speak on.
The Member was supportive of the on-line registration; we appreciate his support. As we expand, that is exactly our intention and that we need to expand and that is what we will be doing and trying to get as many things on-line as possible.
The Deh Cho Bridge has not increased the cost of living to a large part in the city, so we have had a consultant look at that aspect of the Deh Cho Bridge, whether or not it was adding costs to the city. We notice that there is no change in the cost of gasoline, that there was some, I think, a couple of times where some people may have transferred too much of the cost over and above what they were paying in tolls to some products that were being brought in. That was something that was addressed and the increased costs on items were minimal. Like, if a vehicle was hauling maybe 10 cars across and was paying $300, then that would be like $30 per car, as an example, and taking that cost would be the direct cost of the toll they transferred to the customer and would hardly be noticeable, an individual buying a $40,000 car that was being increased by $30.
Getting back to an update on the strategy, what the plan is moving forward, I will ask the deputy minister to finish off my response.
Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Deputy Minister Neudorf.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We will be updating out multi-modal Transportation Strategy in the next fiscal year. There is a lot of background work that is underway right now. Runway issue study, we talked about Green Light before, our Corridors for Canada, all of those different studies are going to be wrapped together into our new multi-modal strategy. We also do want to undertake some consultations as part of that, so we are working on a plan to put that together, also building on the work of the Economic Opportunities Strategy and the Mineral Development Strategy, recognizing the strong link between transportation systems and economic development in the North and in the NWT. We would hope to finalize that during the next fiscal year and we actually hope to be able to get this to standing committee soon to provide a more detailed update on that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Deputy Minister Neudorf. Minister Beaulieu, did you have any closing final remarks?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No, I don’t. Thank you.
Committee, Mr. Bromley had one more quick general comment.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Very quickly, I am very excited about the Detah road. I am happy the Minister has decided to move on that and I’m wondering when exactly that negotiation or that request for proposal or whatever will start happening. I know the summer season is the best to do the work and I am obviously hoping to see that come out in April.
I also want to mention that in the Inuvik-Tuk highway, I think the concern is that the economic benefits are not rippling very widely, they are largely accruing to the large companies there.
There was one other issue. The forecasting of runway issues was one thing that wasn’t covered that I had mentioned, what we’re doing in the way of having a look at runways, making sure that there are no issues there and preventing them if possible. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Deputy Minister Neudorf.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. On Detah access, $2 million was approved in capital last fall. So we are working on the plan for that and actually for reconstructing the rest of the highway. We do hope that the recent announcement from the federal government under the Building Canada Plan will provide an opportunity to reconstruct and chipseal that entire highway, but as that work progresses, we will be prepared. That work will be undertaken this summer. So we’ll have our contracting in place to have that work undertaken this summer.
Runway issues and climate change, we’ve talked in the past about the work that we are doing around climate change trying to prepare for, better understand what impacts changing climate will have on our infrastructure is already having and then trying to forecast what it might have in the future. One of the tools that we’re using there, the important one, is the vulnerability assessment, and we’ve applied that to several of our runways now just trying to get a better handle or idea of what might happen in the future assuming that the warming trend does continue. Inuvik is the one where it’s currently being applied with the depression that showed up there last fall quite suddenly tied to the work that we want to undertake this summer to fully repair and fix that.
So the full focus of looking at climate change is, of course, to better understand what might be happening in the future and then what we can do to adapt to the changes there.
The Inuvik-Tuk highway, lots of work underway there now and I think that the communities are definitely seeing the benefits of that work up to well over 100 people that are employed already on the project and anywhere around 80 percent of local and/or northern people that are working on that job along with a high percentage of contracting and subcontracting opportunities to the local northern companies. So I think the region in particular is feeling the benefits from that project already. Thank you.
Thank you, deputy minister. Next I have Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll just maybe use the time just to request a copy of this so-called study that was done.
The Minister highlighted $300 for a truck to drive across the bridge, obviously, the 10 cars, divide that up, you know, that type of survey. He had highlighted that example, the gas he said they’re using as a reference. I’d like to find out who your expert is. I’d like to see what paperwork they generated, justify their position and I’d also like to know if that could be sent to my office, including the costs that may have come. I want to get a sense or a full grasp of what they were looking at because, by the way, as a footnote, I was referring to things like milk, pellets that provide heat, small consumables like lumber and other things like that.
That said, I’d be happy if they would deliver a copy of the study as well as the cost. Inform me as to the cost. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Deputy Minister Neudorf.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Before the Deh Cho Bridge was to come into service, one of the items that we wanted to look at was what the impact of the toll was going to be on the cost of goods in the North Slave region. We did engage a consultant to take a look at that for us and he came back and said that really there’s nothing I can do for you because the top cost of the toll on the price of goods coming into the North Slave region, the cost of the toll or the impact of the toll is so minor that there was nothing that they could measure to make it meaningful. So, in fact, we did not engage the services of a consultant for that work. As we’ve seen the toll, and the bridge has been in operation I guess coming up to a year and a half now, really the inflation in Yellowknife has tracked inflation in other parts of the country. So there is no extraordinary impact of the toll that could be felt. There are certain commodities where you would expect to see the toll, those large bulk commodities and gasoline is the example that the Minister had brought up before, where if the cost of that toll was going to be passed on completely it would have been at about two-thirds of a cent a litre that could be passed on and the price of gas has not changed for the last three years in Yellowknife. So it stayed the same as it was beforehand, which is where we would hope to see the impact from the bridge come in.
Really, there are efficiencies to be gained. Yes, you have to pay the cost of the toll, but there are many efficiencies to be gained in the transportation industry and then just in businesses and managing their inventory and those types of costs. So we expect, at the end of the day, that those two items would wash themselves out and there would be no impact of the toll and it will take time for that to sort itself out. Thank you.
Thank you, deputy minister. Mr. Hawkins.
I guess I don’t have much of a follow-up because, quite frankly, I’m not sure what to say now because I was given the impression that they had studied this and had some paperwork behind it.
I don’t want to tie too much more committee time up on this, but I don’t necessarily think that those are the right things studied, and when you consider the Hay River rack price of gasoline today is 90 cents – 90.1 cents, by the way – it does lend oneself to wonder where the additional 48 cents, almost 50 cents are coming from. So how does a gain of 50 cents between Hay River rack price and Yellowknife, well it’s the transportation, the costs and everything. To say the bridge didn’t have an effect, well, if the deputy minister is correct with his math, I suspect he is, two-thirds of a cent, well, they ate it, but that’s not the way it is when you go buy pellets that go up a dollar a bag from $5.50 to $6.50 overnight as an example.
Anyway, I don’t really see much to anyone’s benefit to pursue this point anymore. My point is this: that cost has increased. The Department of Transportation in concert with other departments could have spent some time studying this. As a public awareness, could Transportation have changed anything? Absolutely not. I’ve always maintained that private industry has the ability to set their prices. However, it’s government’s responsibility to inform the consumers and we failed, or I should say the government failed. Some of us tried to raise this concern and it fell on deaf ears and consumers are concerned. So there’s not really much more to add. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. I’ll take that as a comment, concern. Is committee agreed we’ve completed our general comments?
Agreed.
We will proceed to detail with the Department of Transportation. Mr. Menicoche.
COMMITTEE MOTION 20-17(5):
CONCLUSION OF TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT SUMMARY,
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I’ve got a motion here. I move that this committee now concludes consideration of the Department of Transportation department summary and all related activities and information items contained in Tabled Document 22-17(5), Northwest Territories Main Estimates 2014-2015. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The motion is in order. The motion is being distributed.
Question.
Question has been called. The motion is carried.
---Carried
Does committee agree we are concluded the Department of Transportation?
Agreed.
Thank you, Minister. Thank you, witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses out of the Chamber.
Thank you, committee. We’ve agreed we’ll continue on with the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs.
Agreed.
Minister, do you have some opening comments? Minister McLeod.
Yes, I do, Mr. Chair. I am pleased to present the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs’ main estimates for 2014-2015. The department’s main estimates propose an operations expenditure budget of $99.4 million, an increase of $665,000, or less than 1 percent, from the 2013-2014 Main Estimates. This increase is a result of $3.43 million in forced growth, an increase of $1.6 million in initiative funding, and sunsets and transfers totaling $1.01 million.
MACA has a number of key priorities in support of community governments. This year we completed the Accountability Framework for Community Governments and are in the process of implementing this important tool through a series of workshops and meetings with community leaders. MACA began collecting results in 2013-2014, with the first reporting anticipated in the 2015-2016 Business Plan.
An important factor in the implementation of the accountability framework is the creation of an assistant superintendent position in each region. These positions, created in support of the decentralization priority, are critical to the community government’s understanding and use of the reporting requirements and in utilizing the tools we have developed to their fullest extent.
Following the introductory workshops, the assistant superintendents are now meeting with all community governments directly to advance this work.
While forced growth can partially explain funding pressures facing community governments, MACA has consistently heard from all communities and our partners at the NWTAC and LGANT that the total amount of funding available to support community government operations is insufficient. In response, MACA has initiated a formal review of the formulas used to calculate funding amounts. MACA anticipates having this work completed by April 2014 so that recommendations may be considered in advance of the 2015-2016 business planning process. This work will be high profile and of significant interest to community governments and will also ensure that MACA is prepared for the future when new resources may become available.
Included in the 2014-2015 Main Estimates are the following new initiatives in support of the 17th Assembly’s goals and priorities; they are:
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$500,000 for youth resiliency programming as part of the GNWT Mental Health and Addictions Strategy;
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$150,000 to supplement the After School Physical Activity Program as part of the GNWT Anti-Poverty Strategy;
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$350,000 for the Ground Ambulance and Highway Rescue Program to increase contributions to community governments and to implement a first responder training program; and
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$129,000 to establish a youth officer position in the North Slave in support of the GNWT decentralization priority.
MACA continues its work to prepare for the transfer of the land administration function to the new Department of Lands. With this change, MACA has introduced a negative adjustment of $2.73 million to offset the transfer of 19 positions to the new department.
As a result of feedback received from standing committee on our draft main estimates presented in December, we have worked with Finance to change some of the descriptors of line items contained within budget documents. Specifically, descriptors for recreation and youth contribution programs have been amended to provide more detail in both the sport, recreation and youth activity and under regional operations activity.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
