Debates of March 5, 2013 (day 18)

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chair. There is a reduction of $2.4 million as it relates to the Deh Cho Bridge and the Merv Hardie ferry. We are going to be making some decisions on perhaps relocating the Merv Hardie ferry to Tsiigehtchic. Those discussions are underway and we’re doing the analysis now. We wouldn’t have any plans to dispose of another ferry.

I just thought that it would seem that if we’ve got a ferry that is being re-allocated, we would have a ferry that is not in use, therefore, are we keeping it as a spare or is this something that could be used as a cost-recovery for the taxpayers?

The Cardinal would, if the Merv Hardie ends up at Tsiigehtchic, be used in a spare capacity. As things progress in other places around the territory, the Cardinal could be put into service – across the Bear River, for example – at some point in time. So we wouldn’t be in a real rush to dispose of that ferry.

Thanks to the Minister. With all the industrial development that’s anticipated in the Sahtu region, does the department anticipate a much bigger increase in marine traffic or activity, and is this reflected in this year’s budget?

Getting back to cost recovery, if we had a request for the Cardinal from industry in using that to cross from Norman Wells or Tulita, that’s something that we would certainly consider on a cost-recovery basis. We could see how that progresses.

As far as marine traffic, I think that will be moving forward. There will be much more marine traffic this coming summer and the following summer with the advance of Husky’s all-weather road into one of their leases in the Sahtu. As well, Conoco has plans to build an all-weather road on the other side of the Mackenzie. As well, there will be more marine traffic. I think Hay River is going to be a busier place as a result of that. We don’t have any money associated with that in this budget, but activity will certainly be increasing.

A final question I have here, and just so that I’m perfectly clear on all the regulatory changes that we’re going to be faced here in the GNWT, is there any increase in our operating costs to this department with respect to marine activity?

No.

Mr. Dolynny is done. Mr. Bouchard.

Thank you, Madam Chair. My questions are along the ferry operation as well. I know the Minister has answered some of them with Mr. Dolynny’s questions, but I’m just wondering about the strategy that the department is going to come with all the ferries. I have heard also that the ferry in Fort McPherson, they would like to upgrade it as well. I’m just wondering when the department is going to analyze and decide if they’re going to move the Merv Hardie up to Tsiigehtchic, maybe the Louis Cardinal moves up to Fort McPherson, and then we would have a spare ferry. When would the department be looking at rolling out this plan to implement? Obviously, the spring is coming and we’re a couple months away from wanting to open up these ferries, so when does the department expect to know about what they’re going to do for this upcoming season?

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Minister Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chair. That analysis and decisions could, in fact, even happen this month. I mean, spring is coming and decisions are going to have to be made, so, yes, we’ll be moving on that as soon as we get the analysis done.

My other question is about the Merv Hardie. I’ve heard that they need to potentially do an upgrade to the engines and stuff like that. Would that be an operating cost or would we be capitalizing any kind of major engine repairs to that ship? Obviously, we’d do that before we would send it up to Tsiigehtchic, I would assume.

That would be a capital cost, and we don’t have the capital dollars to do the improvements right now. That’s why it was going to be put as a spare, but that’s not to say that it can’t be put back into service and we can find the capital dollars to upgrade at a later point in time.

The other area of interest of mine is, obviously, dredging, and this goes in line with marine. The Minister has already committed to providing some financial assistance to looking at the Hay River dredging, but I’m just wondering if the department is looking to roll out more of a plan for dredging. I’m not just concerned about Hay River dredging. I think there are some other areas of concern. Dredging, you know, maybe some, potentially, in Inuvik and some in Norman Wells. What is the department looking at as far as a dredging program through the Northwest Territories?

Dredging remains a responsibility of the federal government. I see our role as being one that continues to push the federal government to reinstate a program like they had prior to 1994 when they had a multi-million dollar dredging program here in the Northwest Territories. As I mentioned to the Member earlier, even a small-scale dredging program is going to cost somewhere between $2 million and $3 million. Full-scale, you’re looking at probably $12 million to $15 million for a full-scale dredging program. Those are capital dollars that today we just do not have, and again, it’s not currently our responsibility, but we do have a responsibility to impress upon the federal government the need and the requirement to dredge a port like Hay River and others in the territory.

We will continue to impress upon the federal government the need to get a program back up and running here in the North. In discussions we’ve had previously with the federal government, dredging has come up and we continue the dialogue, but we haven’t seen any funding yet. We will continue to push the federal government for funding for dredging here.

That’s all. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I’m just interested in the issue that’s arisen to the floor, the discussion on the potential transfer of the Merv Hardie down the line. What I’m hearing is the access by Tsiigehtchic, or wherever appropriate, to replace that ferry, the Cardinal I think it is. Has there been any consideration to maybe push the Merv Hardie to the Liard ferry at Fort Simpson and then push the Lafferty, I think, further down? I’m just curious on the analysis and consideration that will be taken into effect. Considering how busy that highway is and certainly getting with the heavy trucks.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The main impetus on looking at relocating the Merv Hardie to Tsiigehtchic was its ice-breaking capability and the fact that it could remain in operation longer, and with the situation of gas in Inuvik, that’s very, very important. Again, decisions are going to have to be made sooner rather than later. The Merv Hardie, we didn’t look at any other location that it could move in the NWT. The traffic volumes aren’t there at other locations and, again, I think we need to keep in mind the situation in Inuvik with the gas and the fact that we can keep that crossing open for many weeks more than is currently allowed with the current operation there. Is it the location we’re looking at?

What’s the enabling document that defines who’s responsible for dredging?

I could find out which document it is, but it’s always been a federal responsibility here in the Northwest Territories. We’ll try to find that document for the Member.

I thought certain limitations of dredging as to where it was or handled was transferred to the GNWT. Is there any familiarity to that?

No.

[Microphone turned off] …last year that dredging was actually paid for by the federal government and to what extent?

That would have been 1994, and it was a multi-million dollar operation at that time. They had a program that was run on an annual basis here in the Northwest Territories. The program ceased to exist in 1994.

Has the department been involved in any dredging since 1994? That’s just short of 20 years.

On a small scale, like you see in this year’s budget, $60,000, but that’s just an effort to try to help folks out in Hay River. But we do not have the millions of dollars it would require to dredge the port of Hay River, nor is it our responsibility.

If it’s not the GNWT’s responsibility, why are we dedicating $60,000 to a project that almost sounds fruitless? Perhaps at the same time, can the Minister provide a financial scale of what type of funding needs to be done for that type of project? Thank you.

Madam Chair, we are addressing a need. It’s through federal funding that we look at the $60,000 in partnership with the Canadian Coast Guard. We work with other folks in Hay River to try and get up as much of a program as we possibly can. The requests keep coming. I know I’ve heard both Members from Hay River talk about the requirement for dredging in the port of Hay River. That’s how we can answer the call. We don’t have millions of dollars, but we can offer assistance where need be. Thank you.

Thanks, Minister Ramsay. Just to the Minister and to Mr. Hawkins, we are talking about marine, which is kind of ferry operations, I believe, not dredging, but maybe Minister Ramsay can identify whether the $60,000 we are talking about is…where it is in the budget.

It would be under information items, work performed on behalf of others, but we’ll get you the exact page, Madam Chair. Page 11-36.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Maybe you can hold your questions, Mr. Hawkins, until we get to that page, at least on dredging. Mr. Hawkins.

I could, Madam Chair, but it was the Minister who brought it up and he was the one who coined the money. But that’s fine.

Committee, we are on page 11-25, Transportation, activity summary, marine, operations expenditure summary, $5.717 million.

Agreed.

Thank you. Page 11-26, Transportation, information item, marine, active positions. Are there any questions?

Agreed.

We will move on. Page 11-29, Transportation, activity summary, Community Access Program, operations expenditure summary, $1.008 million.

Agreed.

We move on to page 11-30, Transportation, activity summary, Community Access Program, grants and contributions, contributions, $980,000.

Agreed.

Thank you. We move on to page 11-33, Transportation, activity summary, road licensing and safety, operations expenditure summary, $5.490 million. Mr. Dolynny.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to open up my discussions on the driver examination wait times. This is something that I did bring up in the House here a couple months ago. At such time, there was about a three-month wait time here in Yellowknife and roughly about a two-week wait time in every other jurisdiction across the Northwest Territories.

Can we get an update as to if that has now been rebalanced in terms of the driver examinations? Are they now all in line and roughly what that time wait would be across the Northwest Territories?

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Minister Ramsay.

Thanks, Madam Chair. I thank the Member for bringing this to our attention last year. The wait times now in Yellowknife are in line with other wait times around the Territories. So someone shouldn’t have to wait any more than the two-week time frame to be tested. Thank you.

Madam Chair, I appreciate the Minister looking at that when we did bring that up. The question was regarding Class 5 regular examinations. My question now will have to deal with, I call, specialty licences. I am talking about Class 1, motorcycle and that kind of stuff. There seems to be very few opportunities throughout the given month where people across the Northwest Territories are able to actually access proper examinations for those specialty licences. Is the department aware of this? Is there a plan of action to decrease the amount of wait time, especially for things like motorcycle licences? Thank you.

Madam Chair, that’s the first that has been brought to my attention. If the Member has some specifics of people waiting an inordinate amount of time to be licensed or to have a test, I would be more than happy to try and address those concerns if his constituents or others are having those types of difficulties. I haven’t heard those concerns personally. Thank you.