Mahsi. We just heard last night from the Member, of course, both Members, that the Hay River DEA is not in a position to move forward on a school swap. From their meeting with the parents, my understanding is that there was a great turnout from the general public and I must commend them for having the engagement of the public. We have not heard back from the Commission scolaire francophone, who are meeting in Hay River with the parents tonight. So we will be hearing from them and until we hear back from them, there are no decisions on the next steps as of yet. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bouchard.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know they’ve put some deadlines on the DEA, and obviously, I look forward to hearing what happens in Hay River tonight. I apologize, I can’t make it, but I guess the question is that, going forward, we know that there are some dates coming up in March that are very important and key.
When will the Minister get back to us on these numbers and on the decision going forward on this issue? Thank you.
Mahsi. The Member is quite correct; there is a deadline we have to meet. I believe it’s March 24. Those are the court dates that we have to follow through with. Part of the plan will be to meet with both Hay River MLAs. I was hoping sometime next week to give them the status of what’s happening and what will be the next step, so I will be briefing both Members.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are also for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. I have a lot of questions, but let me start in my little preamble, my short preamble to say that we talk, as a government, about regional capacity and building capacity. Part of that capacity building in Hay River is our schools, and right now I realize that the occupancy levels in our schools are not as high as they could be, and I think that’s what left the door open for this idea of this swap, but I do want to say that with this government’s commitment to decentralization and some of the economic initiatives that are on the horizon in Hay River, we are going to need all four of our schools. I would like to ask the Minister if he has, well, it sounds like the decision to pursue the school swap idea pre-empted a lot of numbers being put together. I don’t want to talk about Yellowknife. Yellowknife has seven MLAs; they can look after Yellowknife. I want to talk about Hay River. Okay?
Are there preliminary estimates on what it would cost to build? As per the court order, what would need to be built at Ecole Boreale? Do they have preliminary cost estimates?
Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The Minister of Education, Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I believe Member Bouchard also mentioned approximately $13 million. If there are no alternatives to building an addition to Ecole Boreale in Hay River, the cost to the NWT will be approximately $13 million. That’s the number that we’ve been working with with the DEA and commission with my department. Those are just some of the numbers that we have been working with.
I, like my colleague, would also like to know what money we’ve already spent on looking at the school swap and what kind of money we have spent trying to fight building a gymnasium for Ecole Boreale. I mean, that would be an interesting number and I hope that the Minister could possibly be forthcoming with that. I think we should stop spending that money and we should start spending money on planning to build a new facility.
The deadline, again, that my colleague spoke of, Minister Lafferty refers to March 24th. I would like to ask the Minister, is there a date before that, even within the next few days, where there is a decision imminently going to be made by this government and by this Cabinet?
Once we hear back from Commission scolaire francophone on the outcome of their meeting tonight, then we will be updating both MLAs. Eventually – the Member is quite correct – we need to make a decision by the Cabinet prior to March 24th what will be the next step. I will be briefing both Members sometime next week at the earliest possibility.
I do realize that they need to hear from the French school board, but the MOU proposed to the DEA, we’ve been officially notified by the chair that this has been rejected.
I’d like to ask the Minister, just for the benefit of people in Hay River to know, by what date would this Cabinet be making a decision on what avenue they are going to take to proceed? I know that the court deadline is March 24th. By what date does this Cabinet need to make a decision to expend the $13 million to build the gymnasium for Hay River?
Again, keeping in mind that obviously March 24th is the date that we need to make this a priority to government to make a decision, and I need to present that to my Cabinet colleagues, possibly we have Thursday’s Cabinet meeting. Those are the discussions that we need to have with the Cabinet on what will be the next steps. But I want to inform the Regular Members prior to that, sit down with them and this is what we’ve heard, what should we do as the next steps. Those are the discussions we need to have prior to me going to my Cabinet colleagues. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Ms. Lafferty. Final, short supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister, very succinctly, what option does this government have, other than to comply with the court order, to spend the money and build the gymnasium for Ecole Boreale in Hay River? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, there are only two options: proceed or not to proceed. Those are the two options that we have been working with and we were trying to find an alternative solution to this so that at least it would save the GNWT money over time. We are very limited on timing now, so again, we will be updating those two Hay River Members next week and give them more detailed information at that time. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Blake.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have some questions for the Minister of Public Works and Services. It has to do with my Member’s statement here today.
I would like to ask the Minister, has there been any action to address the traffic and parking concerns raised at the Moose Kerr School? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister of Public Works, Mr. Beaulieu.
Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. I don’t have that information here with me. I understand that the Member was concerned about the road being very close to the school. I will have the Department of Public Works contact the administrator of the school and see if there is anything that can be done immediately to address that issue. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, also in my statement I mentioned that in 2019 there will be either a replacement or a renovation of the school, so I would like to ask the Minister…
Excuse me, Mr. Blake. I would like to remind Members, while they are in this House, shut the ringers off on your phones. Put them on vibrate or silent. Mr. Blake, I’m sorry, continue.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will start again. In my statement I mentioned that in 2019 the school will either be renovated or replaced. I would like to ask the Minister, will the price to renovate Moose Kerr School in 2019 be close to the cost of a new facility? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, when we are doing a midlife retrofit, such as what the plan is here, I understand that there was already a bit of a retrofit in Moose Kerr School. I believe that was in 2000. If we are referring to this after the 40 years, in 2019, there is a certain point under which we make a decision to replace the facility, if it exceeds a certain percent, if the renovation would exceed a certain percentage of cost of a totally brand new unit. When a retrofit can be brought in and the life of the facility can be extended to a reasonable time period, then that retrofit is done and everything can be replaced and the extension can be done lower than a certain percent of the cost of a new school. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, in 2019 the school will be 50 years old. I would like to ask the department, will the department replace Moose Kerr School? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, determining whether or not this facility will be replaced, again, will be based on the judgment on whether or not the school can be brought up to the standard of the day, with a certain percentage towards what it would cost to replace the whole entire school. But at 50 years old, I imagine that it would be a very close examination with the Department of Education on whether or not it would be more feasible to replace the school. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Blake.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think we could learn something from the Housing department that was going to renovate the Joe Greenland Centre and ended up replacing it.
Will the Minister make sure that the Moose Kerr School is on the red flag list? Thank you.
From what I understand, the school is in the capital plan. So it’s not a situation where it would be put on a red flag list to enter into a capital plan. The school is actually in the capital plan and scheduled for a major renovation or replacement in 2019. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Health Minister will tell you he does not have early access to the Auditor General’s report. Of course, he’ll probably tell you it’s all arm’s length, and of course, he doesn’t know anything about it until it’s tabled by yourself, Mr. Speaker. This is a paradox that now sits before this House.
Can the Minister of Health explain why the wording in the Minister’s statement given on February 25th of this year mimics much of the wording in the report tabled by yourself, Mr. Speaker, yesterday, and the report I’m referring to is the Auditor General’s report. Is this a case, and only the Minister can answer this, of the Department of Health and Social Services, Minister Abernethy as Minister, getting ahead of the report before the public had its shot fairly to review this? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister of Health, Mr. Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I got my first briefing on the Auditor General’s report the day before the Auditor General tabled it and I got that report and that briefing from the Auditor General himself. I did not see the report until yesterday when it was tabled. In fact, I read it while sitting here in Committee of the Whole and that was the first time that I saw the document.
But I’m not a moron; I was involved in the review of the Child and Family Services Act in the 16th Assembly and I participated with Mr. Bromley and Ms. Bisaro and Mr. Krutko and Mr. Beaulieu while we travelled throughout the Northwest Territories and listened clearly to the people of the Northwest Territories about the challenges that they were facing with respect to child and family services. I became the Minister four months ago. Immediately after I became the Minister of Health and Social Servicers, I sat down and I read the review of the Child and Family Services Act from the 16th Assembly and it doesn’t take rocket science to look at the report, dig into the department and realize that there are challenges. I reviewed the act, I started having discussions with the department and, clearly, without question – and it doesn’t take an idiot to figure this out – we have accountability issues, we have reporting issues, we have performance issues and I am the Minister of Health and Social Services and I’m committed to making these improvements. I was one of the ones who championed for the review in the 16th Assembly and I truly care about the child and families of the Northwest Territories.
I wanted to make a statement in the House to let the Members know that things are happening. It came up in committee, it came up in front of the House when we did the budget review. So I appreciate the Member’s opinion, but I accept it for what it is, an opinion. Thank you.
I won’t call a point of order on the Minister’s opinion of himself, but I will leave it at that.
The arm’s length of this report must be pretty short because they’re using such similar language as it is in the report tabled by you, delivered by the Auditor General, Mr. Speaker. The Minister’s statement on February 25th stands on the record of saying why is this information very, very similar in your statement as the department’s response. It says the department was trying to get ahead of this by saying, here are the answers and when it shows up a week later just pretend, oh, we’re tweaking everything. Can the Minister, without a long story about how great the world is in the 16th Assembly and his good friends hanging out with him, explain why the wording is so, so similar? It tells me that they’re trying to get ahead of this. Thank you.
Thank you. It kind of sounds like the Member didn’t review the Child and Family Services Act from the 16th Assembly because the two are very similar. Thank you.
The answers provided by the departments are very, I don’t know how to describe it, are exceptionally similar to the answers provided in the Auditor General’s report. So I would say this: Why are they identical? Only the Minister can answer this and if he wants to continue to dodge and try to play games about, oh well, it’s this or it’s this, and now the Member hasn’t read the report, he can play games, but the public can see this. The fact is there’s zero accountability on this and they’re getting ahead of the Auditor General, which breaks the spirit and the intent of consensus government and that has to stop.
Thank you. I’d hardly say that we got ahead. I was talking about some of the positive things that we were doing and the Auditor General clearly indicated that we’re not. So I would say that the things I was speaking to are the good things that we’re trying to do in response to the 16th Assembly. Frankly, much of the wording in both of those documents is consistent and I would encourage the Member to maybe review or read the review of the Child and Family Services Act from the 16th Assembly. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.
I’ve read that report. I don’t need to be schooled by the Minister. The facts lay simply before themselves. The Minister’s statement on February 25th, the language is practically identical to chapters 39, 41, 19, 42 and 80, as oh, things are wonderful, but yet if you read the Auditor General’s report pointing to those sections, it’s similar. It only draws one conclusion of the everyday person: the department doesn’t want to be responsible for these things so they’re downplaying them upfront and then they’re going to use the angle, oh, but don’t worry we’re on the file, so let’s not get too excited.
Can the Minister explain simply why the wording is identical and we’ll deal with that so we can all move forward? Thank you.
Thank you. It’s awfully cynical and it seems to be attributing motive, which is not really the case. I was involved in the file. I am the Minister of Health and Social Services and I have taken an active interest in this file. I have had many discussions with the department, and the department, yes, is involved in preparing responses to the audit, which I don’t get to see until the audit is actually out there, but at the end of the day, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that we need to do a lot more on this file, and I’m taking action and I have been taking action and I didn’t wait for the audit to come out to start taking action on this file because, quite frankly, we all knew it needed to be done.
I’ve had those discussions with committee and I’ll continue to have those discussions with committee. Once again, I appreciate the Member’s opinion, but once again, it is just simply an opinion. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Education. Just a follow-up on my Member’s statement.
I have been asking for a new school in Trout Lake for the past 10 years and the Minister said he’s in Cabinet Thursday. Will he raise that as well? When will the education priority of small communities be heard? We need new schools and new gymnasiums in the small communities. When will the government be doing that?
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Minister of Education, Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. We are clearly hearing the Members, especially from the small communities. That’s part of the reason why we’re developing this whole Education Renewal Innovation because part of the pillars will be focused on small communities and also the formula funding for the small communities, so it will capture that as we move forward as long-term objectives.
Today we are following the capital planning process, and every single time there are capital projects going forward we’ve been stressing for the small communities. Those are badly needed and we’ve been developing some planning studies, business case scenarios and with this budget going forward, 2014-15, as part of the capital planning process we will be investing approximately $95,000 towards the Charles Tetcho School in Trout Lake in the planning study.
Those are just some of the discussions we’ve been having, now we’re putting them into action and from there the outcome will be to move forward on major capital projects. Mahsi.
Thank you very much. During the Minister’s visit to Trout Lake we showed him how small the school was, we showed him it’s full to capacity and now we have junior kindergarten, which is a new additional factor that has to be addressed. Are there enough resources to do an adequate planning study in the community of Trout Lake and its needs? Thank you.
Mahsi. With respect to the major capital retrofits, we need to have a planning study done, so this is part of the process. Based on the needs of the community, the size of the school, how it’s structured as we move forward, what kind of school would the community be entitled to, the square footage and the classroom sizes, so those are the discussions that we need to have with the regional school board. We are moving forward on this. Planning studies will be on the way.
I know that when it comes to replacing health facilities, we’ve got standard plans for type B, C facilities, et cetera. Is that something similar the Minister of Education and his department is working on, template schools for our small communities, because I think what will really help is moving forward. Yes, we’re doing planning studies, but we also need, I think, Class D estimates. We need to know the ballpark figure we’re working with so we can get it accelerated in our capital planning processes because these schools need replacing right away.
