As of today, part of the capital planning process, we have to work very closely with the Department of Public Works and Services, because there are set criteria that we have to follow with any major infrastructure, not only schools but other major infrastructure in the Northwest Territories. They have to follow the criteria.
Again, we have been told over and over to think outside the box, focus on small communities. That is exactly what we’re pursuing. Part of the action plan with the education renewal and innovation is that we’re going to be developing plans of action focusing on the needs of the small communities. Yes, we are moving towards that.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much. I’m pleased to hear the Minister say those words. The time for building the large schools are over. We’ve spent hundreds of millions of dollars in all our regional centres and I believe it’s time to start concentrating on our small communities, get those done. The costs are not in the hundreds of millions. It will probably be – I can’t even estimate – probably about $2 million or $3 million for a school in a small community.
I’d like to ask the Minister, can he start the initial planning, get some Class D estimates, and share it with myself and my colleagues that need new schools in their communities?
We will compile that information on the process of the capital planning. Every year we go through this and there are set criteria. The planning process is on the way and we will be sharing that information with the Member. There is going to be engagement through the education renewal and innovation with the community and with the DEAs, and I’ll definitely be seeking input from the Member as well.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are in follow up to my statement earlier today on poverty traps and directed to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. Yesterday and today I think I made it clear that our social safety net has some pretty serious poverty traps in it, but I would like to give the Minister a chance to demonstrate differently. We track people on income support more than anyone else in the NWT. We know month by month what is in their bank account.
Will the Minister tell us how many people our system has helped rise out of poverty in the last year or any year?
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I think I see another written question coming. The Member is asking for detailed information. I don’t have the actual numbers of how many people we track on the detailed information that’s required, verification and so forth, to confirm that there’s going to be a payment. But we must keep in mind that income support is a last resort as a subsidy program to the community members. We do what we can to help the most vulnerable in the communities. As I stated yesterday, as well, that part of the labour market, we have to improve and encourage those individuals to fill those potential job opportunities. We are doing what we can to provide the productive choices training on-the-job program. The funding is available, so we have to encourage those individuals. My department continues to do that and will continue to relay that message on to the communities.
I can assure the Minister that I do track that information and we have the poorest 20 percent of people in this jurisdiction in the country and it’s not improving. I appreciate that we do what we can, the Minister does what he can, but what I’m suggesting here is ways that we can do more with less.
As I mentioned, Nutrition North does food basket surveys on what it costs to feed a family of four in our communities. Their data shows that the amount provided by income support is only half of what is needed. Maintaining our focus on the most critical element underserved here – that’s children – how does the Minister expect children to succeed in school when their parents cannot afford to feed them?
Income support is not the only avenue that we provide funding to the most vulnerable that the Member is referring to. We work closely with the Department of Health and Social Services, the Wellness Program. There are all these different subsidy programs that are out there. Income support is just one area that we subsidize the most vulnerable. Yes, we need to prepare our community members and Northwest Territories residents, especially the young ones, for them to enter the education field and eventually graduate and to come back and be a part of the northern workforce. Those are the overall goals and objectives of this government, the wellness of our people, the most educated. This is what we do. Part of the Labour Market Development Agreement, we provide those subsidies. Income support is another venue, SFA and the child services as well. Those are just some of the areas that we continue to provide services.
To the Minister, we’ve heard all about this amazing and costly maze of support, ineffective supports, that we have out there. We’re trying to move on here.
There are additional supports available to people in poverty, such as the GST rebate and the child tax credit. Despite their intent to help, our system takes that money away from families. I very much doubt that the money we save from chasing after these meagre funds even covers the cost of the government workers chasing after them.
How can the Minister justify clawing back payments that are meant to alleviate poverty when people are already struggling just to buy food?
Again, it is a last resort venue that we have as the income support division. It’s not a money-making machine. We’re there to assist those most vulnerable individuals in the communities. Just as an example, I can use the Sahtu region as an example where there’s a very hot economy that’s happening there. There is all this different training that’s been developed and job creation. Based on that, people are getting off income support. That’s the whole objective of this government. We need to push that forward.
Canada’s job grant that’s coming down from the federal government, we’re fully on board with the changes that are coming down. That is a decision that we’ve made and we’re going forward as the territorial government working with the federal government. Along with the Department of Health and Social Services and my department and ITI, we’re going to move forward on this.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m not totally sure the Minister has been hearing my description of poverty traps. This guy is stuck at home with children and when he tries to work a little bit, it gets clawed back and he’s even worse off. When the Minister or myself make an extra $1,000, we pay income tax. We are not living in poverty, so we contribute about $400 of that back to society, and I think we would agree, all of us, that that’s money well spent. But when someone on income support makes an extra $1,000, they only get to keep $150.
How can the Minister or any government official possibly justify an 85 percent effective tax rate on income for people who are trying to get out of poverty when the most well paid people in the NWT only pay 40 percent?
I, too, would like to encourage those individuals to enter the workforce, and all of us here, 19 of us, fully support that. We want individuals to be successful in the Northwest Territories, throughout Canada, internationally, so we have to provide them the tools. Part of the tools that we’re providing them is productive choices within our income support division, and part of the productive choices is putting them on on-the-job training and preparing them for resume writing. All these different tools that we are providing them are there for individuals such as what Mr. Bromley is referring to as part of the clientele. There is also a $1,200 exemption that individuals can qualify for within the income support division.
We do have a subsidy program for those most vulnerable. We will continue to support that. It is key that we have to support those individuals that are in the system to make them a success in their lives. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. The Minister undertook an educational renewal and innovation engagement process with our people in the Northwest Territories. The comprehensive review of the education, we looked at operating in the Northwest Territories. We know things need to be changed and improved. We’ve got to think differently. There is a multi-year plan how to make these changes in the North.
I want to ask the Minister in regards to the Education Renewal and Innovation Action Plan that was scheduled to be coming out at the end of February 2014. Is the plan ready for us to review on this side of the House? Today is March 5th.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister of Education, Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Obviously, we want to hear feedback from the general public of the Northwest Territories, especially the grassroots people, the educators, the parents, the grandparents, so we have developed a committee to establish an engagement process. Part of that will be listening to those individuals who are in the system, as well, and the community members.
Once we share that, the feedback, we’re hoping by May-June session we are going to have some information, but prior to that, I believe I did make a commitment in this House, I want to share that with the standing committee. It will be in draft format, obviously, but once it’s in my hands, I will make a point of sharing that with standing committee as a presentation. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, Members on this side of the House are telling the Minister right now that they represent the grassroots people, the people in their communities. They are saying they need new gyms and they are saying fix old schools, build new schools, get gymnasiums. We heard it. Social passing, we don’t have good directors. We’ve heard all that. The Minister has gone out. The Minister stated in this report that there is going to be an assessment, there’s going to be an ER Action Plan. The development of this plan was supposed to be out in February 2014. I am waiting for this action plan. We know what it is. I think the time has stopped for saying these things and we need some action now. So I am asking this Minister, when is the action plan going to be out? We know what’s happening with our education system.
Mr. Speaker, when we initiated our discussions back in let’s say in late fall, that’s the date that we had thrown around, possibly February or March, and now we have to engage the school boards, and in order to get feedback, it takes time to engage the school boards, the parents and, again, the grandparents and educators, so we will be waiting for feedback from them and then delivering the package as an action plan to the standing committee. I’m hoping that by May/June we have that final detailed information. In due time, I will be sharing that with the standing committee when the time is available. Mahsi.
Mr. Speaker, the Minister, through the ASA educational workshop in the Sahtu, certainly heard from our people. I think this Minister needs to get on the books, put the action plan before us. It’s stated here August 2013 to February 2014, development of an ER Action Plan implementation schedule. Now the Minister is moving it down.
We need to get on this right away, so I will ask the Minister, why the delay, why we are taking so long? We have told you numerous times through the educational renewal, our education system is not working in the Northwest Territories. There are many factors that the Minister listened to in the Sahtu and other communities. We need to think differently, we need to start within the time limit of this government.
Mr. Speaker, Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative, the engagement we had was very successful. This is embarking on that, we are strengthening that, enhancing that through education renewal renovation. It’s not me that’s delaying the whole tactic, it’s the engagement.
I am a firm believer in engaging people, engaging the public, the communities, to share their perspectives, the grassroots people, and to share their perspective and putting it in the action plan. Upon that time, I will be delivering that to the standing committee once it is delivered in my office. Possibly, we have given a target of May or June and then delivering that to standing committee. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This Minister is looking and blaming the people. The people have spoken to him. I went to the workshop in the Sahtu; we had some dynamite discussions. We were hoping that in 2010 with this discussion, this will push… This issue has been long standing in the Sahtu and also for the people of the Northwest Territories. We are saying our education system in the North is broken. Fix it. Our students need to be well educated, our schools need to be well functioned. We know the system and why it’s not producing what we want it to produce. Let’s get on with it. Let’s not stall anymore by continuing to wait. You know, we are sitting and not moving.
I want to know that this Minister is a Minister of action and get something done.
Mr. Speaker, Action Jackson is here to…
---Laughter
Mr. Speaker, I am hearing the Member and we are moving forward with the action plan and that is coming in early spring. It will be delivered through the standing committee and also in this House. It will be a very substantial piece of work that we are moving forward.
The Member has referred to that it has been long awaited. Yes, patience is a virtue, as well, but we are going to be delivering an action plan by this summer. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Health and Social Services and I want to follow up on my statement and ask some questions to the Minister about the office of the Auditor General’s report recently released.
The Minister has mentioned that he and I were both on the Standing Committee on Social Programs in the 16th Assembly and we did that in-depth review. I believe the Minister is probably even more passionate about that review of the 16th Assembly than I am. There were 70 recommendations in that report. Those recommendations, if implemented, would have had a very large impact on our system.
So, a couple of questions here. What has happened to those recommendations? How did we get to where we are today? How did we get here? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister of Health, Mr. Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday, after the Auditor General report came out, I did send a letter to the Standing Committee on Social Programs and I was looking for an opportunity to sit with them and talk about the 16th Assembly report and also some direction that I have given to the department over the last couple of weeks and last couple of months with respect to the recommendations in that report.
I have talked a little bit about some of the foundational work that has been done, which is great, and I don’t believe it’s enough. I feel like we‘ve been tinkering around the edges, that we haven’t actually jumped into the meat of the issue.
When we did the review, we had an opportunity to meet and discuss this with so many wonderful people. I met some really passionate people on the file. At one point we had an opportunity to meet with an executive director of the First Nations Child and Family Caring Society of Canada. She actually travelled with us on that review. She talked a lot about differential, providing these types of services on a differential basis. This is something that we were all passionate about at the time and this is something that I would like us, as an Assembly, to pursue. It was one of the recommendations.
We have been moving forward on the recommendations. I’m looking forward to sitting in front of committee at their earliest convenience, go through the report, talk about some of the things we are doing and how we can move forward to improve all services to our children and families in the Northwest Territories.
Thanks to the Minister. I didn’t really hear an answer to my question. I’m going more to we are in a dire situation right now. There are a lot of things that have been pointed out in the report which have not been done over the last 10 to 15 years, from the sounds of things.
My question to the Minister, again, is: How did we end up in this situation. How did we get from there to here?
I think the Auditor General kind of hit it on the head when they referred to the lack of accountability in the system. I think it was Mr. Moses who outlined the structure where the Minister is responsible and then the director is responsible for the provisions of the act and they delegated responsibilities down to staff who actually report it in authority and move up, so there’s limited accountability in the authority which means it may not have been a priority to the degree we needed it to be, certainly not to the degree the Standing Committee on Social Programs in the 16th Assembly believed it needed to be.
I’m committed, as Minister of Health and Social Services, to make changes. One of the first changes I’ve made – and I’ve made the direction already – is from this point forward starting in July – it’s going to take us a bit of time to do the paperwork and get the job descriptions rewritten and the training done – the CEOs will be the directors, the assistant directors under the act, and they will be accountable at an authority level.
As far as why these things didn’t roll out as quickly as we’d hoped, there has been some work. It has been in the development phase. They have been working on the foundation. I want it to go faster and I want to see results in the life of this government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I appreciate that some things have happened. I appreciate that it was difficult to put all 70-plus recommendations from the 16th Assembly report in place all at once, but it’s awful slow. I’m particularly concerned, Mr. Speaker, about the gap in services for 16 to 18-year-olds. I mentioned that in my statement. That is something which certainly could have been acted on from the time in October 2010 when that report was tabled in the Assembly until now. There could have been amendments to the act that were done. I appreciate the Minister says we are now – the royal “we” – his department is working on legislation, an LP has been forwarded and we are now working on the legislation, but it’s several years too late, in my estimation.
Can the Minister provide me with an indication of some of the changes we are likely to see in this legislation when it comes forward? Thank you.
It’s never too late. We need to get it done and we will get it done. With respect to the 16 to 18-year-olds, I’m sure the Member recalls if an individual between 16 and 18 wishes to have services, they still can volunteer for support. To deal with some of the other changes we have all discussed during the reviews of the Child and Family Services Act in the 16th Assembly, we are going to need some legislative changes. In the meantime, it needs to be across the department, because we talked about some individuals who choose not to receive services are not eligible for things like income support, so I have directed my department to meet with representatives of Education, Culture and Employment to see what we can do to make sure those individuals who choose not to take the volunteer services can receive coverage.
With respect to the act and what is coming forward, I have provided the LP; I have received some feedback from committee on things they would like us to include as we move forward. I’m happy to sit down and if I can get a meeting with the Standing Committee on Social Programs, we can have these discussions because I don’t think you want me to start listing these things off. We’d be here all day. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final, short supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, I don’t want to be here all day, but I was hoping you’d give us a bit of an indication of some changes upcoming.
The situation we’re in indicates that major change is called for. For a long time I’ve thought that the Department of Health and Social Services is too big. It’s a huge monster. It’s like a massive cargo ship in the ocean and it’s very difficult for it to make change.
I’d like to suggest to the Minister – this is something I’ve thought about for quite some time and it would be reverting to something we had a number of Assemblies ago – that social services be removed from the Department of Health and Social Services and set up as a stand-alone department or perhaps a department with one or two other small areas. I’d like to know if this is something the Minister would consider and bring to Cabinet for discussion.
It’s something that I’ve actually thought of at different times. I’ve had an opportunity to talk to professionals who were around in the day when the two departments were brought together or the many departments were brought together and services were shipped out to Education, Culture and Employment in other areas as well.
I’ve also had an opportunity to talk to a significant number of professionals in the system. At the end of the day, it’s my opinion what we want is an integrated system. We want social workers and social service providers able to work collaboratively with our health providers. I don’t believe there’s going to be benefit in the long term for us to split this up and create new silos when what we really want to do is find ways to work together. The Member is not wrong. Things have taken too long to happen. We need to take some action. We need some fundamental change, which is why I’ve said we need to stop tinkering around the edges and dig in and make some changes.
Once again, I’d love to have those conversations with committee and I’m looking forward to that opportunity. At this point, I’m not prepared to take forward an idea of splitting these departments. I think integration, working together and not creating more silos – we’ve all heard everybody say no more silos – isn’t going to help us. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday during question period the Member for Range Lake was placed on notice by the Finance Minister for the second time this session. This time I have questions about tobacco tax collection, so I’m hoping the esteemed Minister had a chance to review and refresh himself with the recently tabled public accounts before the House. I hope we can return to questions without scoring a hat trick of unfortunate notices.
Can the Minister of Finance indicate to the House where his department gets their statistical data on tobacco purchases, use, tax collection and audits and is this information publicly available? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We get it from a variety of sources, from the people who sell it, from the people who retail it, from our own officials. I will pull together those facts and document and I will share it with the Member. Thank you.
I appreciate the Minister’s cooperation. I do ask that the department make that information available publicly and not only to the Member, if that would be something they could look at.
Can the Minister clearly articulate to the House, according to our recent tabled public accounts, why our actual tobacco tax collection was so way off from our 2013 Main Estimates? Thank you.
There are a number of possibilities which we’re checking into. I can’t definitely give him a clear answer on that as the matter is still being checked into. I have gone back to the officials after our discussion in the House yesterday, as well, so I will, once again, have that information, when it’s ready, provided to the Member. Thank you.
I appreciate the department and Minister investigating this huge shortfall. I think it was very problematic for those who actually reviewed the public accounts at the time.
Can the Minister give a bit more of an indication, is that including audits, and if so, are audits being performed on out-of-province wholesalers? Thank you.
We’ve, in fact, added a couple of auditors to the Finance operations to enhance their capabilities. We continue to monitor the whole chain from the wholesaler up to the retailer. We want to try to work, as well, with other departments as we try to track the impact and look at what Stats Can can tell us.
I would point out that when it comes to measuring 42,000 people amongst the 30-some million Canadians there are, we tend to be referred to as statistically insignificant and it is problematic when they do make their numbers available. Oftentimes, we are even less than a rounding error in terms of the quantity of people in the Northwest Territories compared to Canada at large. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Dolynny.
