Question
Question has been called. Bill 18 has had second reading.
---Carried
Mr. Blake.
Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 69(2) and have Bill 18, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, moved into Committee of the Whole. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
---Unanimous consent granted
Bill 18 is moved into Committee of the Whole. Thank you.
Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters, with Mrs. Groenewegen in the chair.
I will call Committee of the Whole to order. There are a number of matters before us. What is the wish of committee? Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Committee would like to consider Bill 1, Bill 2 and Bill 3.
Is committee agreed?
Agreed.
Thank you. We will commence with that after a brief break. Thank you.
---SHORT RECESS
I’d like to call Committee of the Whole back to over. We have before us today Bills 1, 2 and 3, starting with Bill 1, Reindeer Act. I’d like to ask Premier McLeod if he would like to deliver his opening comments. Premier McLeod.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak to the Bill 1, the Reindeer Act. The passage of this legislation is an important step towards implementing the Northwest Territories Lands and Resources Devolution Agreement.
The Department of Environment and Natural Resources will administer the Government of the Northwest Territories’ new authorities under the Reindeer Act.
Under the Devolution Agreement, the GNWT is committed to “substantially mirror” Canada’s statutes and regulations that are being repealed or made inapplicable to all land, except federally retained land, transferring to the GNWT through devolution.
The mirroring exercise means that the new GNWT laws will address the same matters, in substantially the same way, as federal laws do now. Mirroring principles limited changes to addressing issues such as outdated language and applying GNWT drafting standards.
Mirrored legislation is a practical first step to ensure a continued delivery of services on April 1, 2014. Mirrored legislation also ensures that there are no legislative gaps or overlaps between the GNWT and Canada.
The parties to the Devolution Agreement entered into a Protocol for Review of Devolution Legislation Agreement. Under this protocol, all parties have had the opportunity to review and comment on this legislation before it was introduced in the Legislative Assembly. We have considered these comments carefully in the preparation of the bill before you.
The Reindeer Act will provide the Government of the Northwest Territories with the authority to make regulations governing the management and protection of reindeer. The bill also provides the GNWT with the authority to enter into agreements for herding of reindeer.
I would be pleased to answer any questions Members may have. Thank you.
Thank you, Premier McLeod. I will now ask the chair of the Standing Committee on Priorities and Planning if she could please deliver the committee’s remarks. Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Standing Committee on Priorities and Planning has reviewed Bill 1, Reindeer Act.
Pursuant to the Northwest Territories Lands and Resources Devolution Agreement, Bill 1 mirrors the Government of Canada’s Northwest Territories Reindeer Regulations as provided for in the Northwest Territories Act.
This act applies to all matters respecting reindeer that were previously governed by the federal Northwest Territories Act and Northwest Territories Reindeer Regulations.
Following the clause-by-clause review, a motion was carried to report Bill 1 to the Assembly as ready for further consideration in Committee of the Whole.
This concludes the committee’s general comments on Bill 1. Individual Members may have additional questions or comments as we proceed. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. I’d like to ask Premier McLeod if he would like to bring witnesses into the Chamber.
Yes, I would, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Agreed. Thank you. I’ll ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witnesses to the table.
Premier McLeod, for the record could you please introduce your witnesses.
Thank you, Madam Chair. On my right I have Kelly McLaughlin, the director of legislation for the Department of Justice; and to my left I have Jamie Fulford, legal counsel with the Department of Justice.
Thank you, Premier McLeod. General comments. Mr. Dolynny.
Great. Thank you, Madam Chair. I’d like to welcome the Premier and staff here today.
With this first bill, this marks the beginning of 10 potential legislations, or 10 legislations that we know of with respect to mirror legislation that will assist in our implementation of devolution. We know that during the clause-by-clause review the question that was asked by a number of Members was why did we not see any type of triggering mechanism formally embedded within this legislation that would force a review of these legislations in due course. An example of what I’m asking is: What prevents us from putting a triggering mechanism for a formal review within a specific time period within all these 10 bills, starting with Bill 1 here, Reindeer Act? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Premier McLeod.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I don’t believe anything prevents this Assembly from putting a triggering mechanism in place. I think there would be some issues if the triggering mechanism would fetter future governments. I think that, as a government, we have committed to undertaking a process of educating and making information available on all of the legislation and all the responsibilities that have been devolved, and it was also committed, as I’ve said many times, we will devolve and evolve and we have committed to establishing a process to review throughout the Territories and to look at all of the legislation.
With that, I’ll ask, through you, Madam Chair, the director to go into the legal aspects of the question. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Premier McLeod. Ms. McLaughlin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The mirroring of the legislation was done in strict terms, so the federal legislation that is mirrored here did not include a review clause in it in this particular case or in any other case. So, in executing the substantial mirroring requirement of the Devolution Agreement, no provisions were inserted that were not required to address the implementation of the legislation in the territorial context. So, a provision such as a review provision was not inserted at that time. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. McLaughlin. Mr. Dolynny.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So, what we’re hearing here is that there’s nothing preventing us from discussing that here today, which I think is important. I think this is what we’ve heard from a number of stakeholders in the Northwest Territories.
I guess I’ll ask another question here. What safeguards do we, as the Legislature, or do we, as the public that we represent, have that there will be a review of this legislation, let’s say, within the next five years? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Premier McLeod.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I can only commit to the life of this 17th Assembly. We, as a government, have committed to undertaking that review. A future government would have to undertake a review to address the five-year window that the federal government has indicated they would be prepared to review the MVRMA in five years. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Again, I appreciate the Premier’s response, which is also what leads me to some concern that this is basically left in the hands of a future Assembly with a potential review. We’re not guaranteed a review and that’s why I am questioning that here today.
I guess my question is: Is there any opposition, perceived opposition with the government that is proposing this bill, of actually including a review triggering mechanism in this bill and in all other nine subsequent mirror legislation bills? Is there an opposition if an amendment was to be brought to the floor of the House?
What we all agreed to was following the mirroring principles that have been in place and have been followed. There are precedents and also we’ve adhered to the mirroring principles. So through you, Madam Chair, I’ll ask Jamie Fulford to go into those details. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Premier McLeod. Mr. Fulford.
Thank you, Madam Chair. When the GNWT approved the Devolution Agreement-in-Principle there was a commitment in the agreement-in-principle to arrive at a protocol for the review of the mirror legislation. So the parties to the Devolution Agreement came up with a protocol that allowed for consultation of each of the parties on whether the GNWT had met the obligation to substantially mirror the legislation. All the mirror legislation has been subject to consultation under that protocol, so all the other parties have agreed that the GNWT has substantially mirrored the legislation that is before you now. So, I guess, it raises the question of whether further consultations would then become necessary. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Fulford. Mr. Dolynny.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We are now introducing another leg of this tool here, which is this protocol. So my question is: The protocol that is being discussed here today, is that protocol itself legally binding for a formal review of legislation to take place? Thank you.
No, the protocol is not legally binding.
So, do we have anything legally binding that will force a review of this legislation within a specific time period? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Premier McLeod.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We’ve already committed to doing a review. We committed to that to the Members. We’ve always said we are going to devolve and evolve and we can start reviewing as April 1, 2014, if this transfer goes through and these legislations are passed. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Madam Chair, I think the Premier knows fairly well that many Members on this side of the House support what has taken place, support devolution. There’s support where we’re moving forward here with mirror legislation. The concern we have is whether or not we’re actually able to have a wholesome and consultative debate with stakeholders after devolution within a meaningful period of time.
It’s clear today, with the information that’s provided, there is no mechanism whatsoever, there’s no protocol that’s legally binding, and so I’ll ask one final time: Is there anything that would give this Member or Members on this side of the House and the public reasonable assurance that a formal review will happen within a specific period of time after devolution date?
I’ve already committed to working with committee and with participating Aboriginal government partners and whomever else that committee would see fit to involve in the review process, and I committed that we could start soon, as of April 1st, and we would develop a process and a plan that would be acceptable to all parties.
Thank you, Premier McLeod. Next I have Mr. Bouchard.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, following in the footsteps of the other Members and the fact that this being the first bill of 10 to come forward, I thought it would be a good point to make some comments about the whole process and the fact that there is very limited debate and discussion on the mirror legislation. I’m not that critical of that issue because I know when we were discussing devolution that mirror legislation was one of those requirements of devolution. I was supportive of devolution. Most of my constituents were supportive of devolution, so I think, for the most part, I’m very comfortable with the process of us providing this mirror legislation.
I agree with some of the Members’ statements about us doing reviews of some of these once we have control of them and when we are able to make some changes and go to the public on public consultation. I think that is a process and something that we should implement once we have control after April 1st. I’m very confident that the Members on this side are very passionate about this and we will look at these amendments and these new responsibilities of the government.
I don’t want to say that we’re circumventing any system. We actually knew this going into this process of devolution that this was the way it was going to be. This was part of the whole realm of devolution. We accepted that and I think I expressed that to most of my constituents, so I feel they’re comfortable with this process. I would like to indicate to them that we are looking and reviewing where required. Some of this legislation, some of it may not be necessary. Some of it, we definitely feel on this side, and I’m assuming some of the other Members of Cabinet feel that as well, and even the GNWT, that we want to tweak some of this stuff once we own it. That’s the whole concept behind devolution, being able to put the decisions in the hands of the Northerners, so some of this process and some of this whole system will have to become NWT systems, not a mirror legislation of the federal government. Going forward, I’m confident that as a Legislative Assembly we’re going to look at these and put it out to the public what our concerns are, what the issues are out there, once we have it all established and get it going.
I just wanted to make those comments that we are not, you know, from my constituents, we’re not circumventing their opinion. This is something that was part of devolution that we had to agree to when we took it on, but going forward, we’re putting it back in the hands of Northerners. We’re going to have a look at this in the future, I’m very confident of that.
I have no questions, really.
Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Premier McLeod, anything in response?
I just want to thank the Member for his comments. That’s the approach that we’re taking exactly and we will undertake a review soon. We’ll start working on that so that we can start working to that effect as of April 1st after we devolve and evolve.
Thank you, Premier McLeod. General comments. I have Mr. Bromley then Mr. Nadli. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate this opportunity to comment and ask a couple of questions. Several times now I have heard a clear commitment from the Premier to conduct a review, and basically, as soon as possible starting or immediately after April 1st, and I appreciate that. I think the Premier would agree that there are plenty of good reasons to do this, not the least of which is, really, including the opportunity for the public to become familiar with this legislation and to provide their comments on it and also to assist in their role of providing oversight and input based on their understanding of the legislation, and I suspect the government itself would appreciate some quiet, focused opportunity for an internal review of the legislation. Things have been happening very rapidly here. I appreciate the Premier’s commitment.
Just on that, would the Premier agree that if the review indicates that the public or the Members would like to see a clause inserted in this legislation requiring an interval period for review, would the Premier support such a thing?
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Premier McLeod.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I’ve always said from the start of this process that we will devolve and evolve, and I think I’ve indicated to the Member several times now that we can start evolving as of April 1st, and if that’s following due process that we can make those changes.
