Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document, entitled “Technical Report – Analysis of Federal Bill C-10, Safe Streets and Communities Act: Impacts on the NWT Department of Justice.” Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document, entitled “Agriculture Products Marketing Council 2011-12 Annual Report.” Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that on Thursday, May 31, 2012, I will move the following motion: I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Thebacha, that notwithstanding Rule 4, when this House adjourns on May 31, 2012, it shall be adjourned until Monday, June 4, 2012;
And further, at any time prior to June 4, 2012, if the Speaker is satisfied, after consultation with the Executive Council and Members of the Legislative Assembly, that the public interest requires that the House should meet at an earlier time during the adjournment, the Speaker may give notice and thereupon the House shall meet at a time stated in such notice and shall transact its business as it has been duly adjourned to that time.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Item 17, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 18, motions. Item 19, first reading of bills. Item 20, second reading of bills. Item 21, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 2-17(3), Commissioner’s Opening Address: Creating the Conditions for Success; Tabled Document 3-17(3), Northwest Territories Main Estimates 2012-2013; Bill 1, An Act to Amend the Student Financial Assistance Act, with Mrs. Groenewegen in the chair.
By the authority give to me as your Speaker by Motion 2-17(3), I hereby authorize the House to sit beyond the daily hour of adjournment to consider business before the House. Thank you.
I’d like to call Committee of the Whole to order. Yesterday we were considering the main estimates of the 2012-2013 budget. We left off on the Department of Public Works and Services on page 7-17. What is the wish of committee today? Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The committee wishes to continue deliberations of the Northwest Territories Main Estimates 2012-2013 with continuation of Public Works and Services and then moving into Education, Culture and Employment.
Thank you. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. We’ll have a brief break and we’ll commence with that. Thank you.
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Alright, committee, we will come back to order. Minister Abernethy, do you have some witnesses you’d like to bring into the House?
Yes, Madam Chair.
Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort in the witnesses. Does committee agree we bring the witnesses in?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Mr. Abernethy, could you introduce your witnesses for the record, please?
Yes, Madam Chair. On my left is Steve Lewis, the director of Corporate Services; on my immediate right is Paul Guy, the deputy minister; and on my far right is Laurie Gault, who is the director of the Technology Service Centre.
Thank you. Committee, we are on page 7-17, Public Works and Services, activity summary, asset management, operations expenditure summary, $82.229 million.
Agreed.
Page 7-18, Public Works and Services, activity summary, information item, asset management, active positions. Seeing no questions we will move on. Page 7-21, Public Works and Services, activity summary, Technology Service Centre, operations expenditure summary, $1.361 million.
Agreed.
Page 7-23, Public Works and Services, activity summary, petroleum products, operations expenditure summary, $2.134 million. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to follow up from my earlier alerts. I know the department had said earlier this year that they were working on incorporating other fuels like wood pellets into their programs and I’m wondering if I can get an update. I don’t see it referred to here specifically, but perhaps I missed it. Something committee has been asking for for years. If I can get an update on that and if it appears in the budget identified.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Guy.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, we’ve been working on a report using an outside consultant to review the petroleum products model to see if it could be applied to other types of products, and we’ve completed that review and the report is now available. We can provide that to committee if the Minister is in agreement.
That’s great. I guess I would like to ask the Minister if he does agree that that report is available and we can expect that in the immediate future.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Abernethy, to the report.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The report is completed and it is ready to be forwarded to committee for review and discussion and I will forward it on to committee right away.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Anything further, Mr. Bromley?
Thank you, Madam Chair. As the Minister knows, we’ve been pushing for a full-cost accounting approach on this and I assume that the report does look at the cost of the bulk storage facilities for fossil fuels and clean-up costs and so on, and addresses the net costs and benefits, environmental impacts and so on. Is there any conclusions that the Minister can mention and subsequent action to start putting this in place that the Minister is prepared to share at this time?
I’ve only had a really brief look at the report, not much detail for myself. So for more detail I’d be happy to pass it over to Mr. Guy or we can wait until it’s distributed and have an opportunity to have a more in-depth discussion in committee.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Mr. Guy.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The report looks at the PPD model, the Petroleum Products Act, and looks at the challenges, the opportunities, and also looks at the markets that are out there. There’s a significant amount of detail in there and there are some observations and conclusions that are contained in the report.
Thank you, Mr. Guy. Anything further, Mr. Bromley?
Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I’m sort of concluding from this that there are no actions planned at this moment in time and the next step will be to review that report and make some recommendations status quo or move forward. Is it likely that we will be seeing that this year and are there dollars available for that sort of activity or where are we with respect to that?
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Abernethy.
Thank you, Madam Chair. There are no plans in the main estimates to change to a different source in the petroleum products division. We as a department are continuing to look at our own infrastructure and where appropriate upgrading them to have pellet capacity. We discussed that a little bit yesterday and we’re still interested in doing that and moving forward there. That will create more demand. As far as changes to petroleum products division, this main estimates, nothing. Once we have an opportunity to discuss this with committee, we’ll figure out where we’re going to go from here.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Mr. Bromley is done. Are there any other questions on page 7-23? Are we agreed that we are concluded page 7-23? Okay. I’ll read it. Page 7-23, Public Works and Services, activity summary, petroleum products, operations expenditure summary, $2.134 million.
Agreed.
Page 7-24, Public Works and Services, information item, lease commitments, infrastructure. Any questions? Seeing none, we will move on to page 7-26, Public Works and Services, information item, Technology Service Centre (Chargeback). Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Although I know it isn’t specifically placed on this particular page it does relate to the subject very well, which is the chargebacks. I’m wondering where the chargebacks actually show up in someone’s revenue file within the budget. This is the consolidated amount of what the chargebacks look like on every single line and all the budgets the department sections pay. Where does this consolidated $18 million show up under revenue in this particular budget? This obviously is the launching pad of it to go somewhere.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Abernethy.
Thank you, Madam Chair. It is not revenue. It is not new money to the Government of the Northwest Territories. It’s identified in every department’s budget. The TSC charges a fee for the services it provides. It will send an invoice to the department. For instance, Public Works and Services is $984,000. They send up an invoice and then there’s a journal voucher, an accounting exercise to transfer the money from that department into the TSC so that they can cover their costs. So it’s not revenue to the government. It’s an internal reallocation of money within the government.
I would find it odd. In this particular case I’m not an accountant and I don’t try to represent one, but I would say that your full-cost accounting it makes sense to recognize that cost. That said, we get budgeted and that gets taken out of our budget so it’s got to show up somewhere on our revenue side of stream. So why wouldn’t we show that somewhere, because it looks like it’s been taken out but it mysteriously just vanishes. From an accounting point of view, it almost seems like there’s no close to the file.
It’s not, like I said, revenue. It’s an internal reallocation. It is tracked. Every department identifies what they’re paying for those services. The money is transferred to the Department of Public Works and Services and in particular ITI. Maybe for a more accounting response, I’ll go to Mr. Lewis.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Mr. Lewis.
Thank you, Madam Chair. As the Minister stated, it is not revenue. It is basically each department it’s an appropriated expenditure. As the Minister alluded to, the TSC will charge each department, they’ll process it against their Fund 1, those expenditures show up as Fund 13 in the financial information system known as SAM.
