Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister of the Social Envelope Committee. Like many social issues, the housing crisis I mentioned in my statement cuts across several departments.
Could the Minister provide some background on how we got here? Why is it that the Housing Corporation has a limit on public housing units while at the same time ECE is paying sky high market rents to house over 100 families? I believe it’s 130 here in Yellowknife. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can’t talk to the details about the NWT Housing Corp’s programs, but I would encourage the Member to follow up with the appropriate Minister.
What I can say is that I listened intently to the Member’s opening comments and Member’s statement. The issues he is bringing up are consistent with issues that he brought up during the winter session about conflicts in departments and having barriers to providing quality services to our residents. At that time I did get a copy of the Member’s statement with a list of samples and examples of areas where he felt, and others have felt, that there are serious barriers to service delivery.
As the Minister responsible for the social envelope, I did direct the deputy responsible to pull together the types of issues that the Member and other Members have shared about these types of conflicts. We have also directed them to dig into the departments and seek out examples that are similar. We have pulled together over 50 from the departments and added the samples that have been provided by Members.
As we have been going through this, it’s clear that some of these barriers and some of the challenges that the Member is talking about, some of them are due to communication and perception and not clearly understanding some of the rules. Clearly, we as a government need to do far better at explaining and helping our public understand some of the programs and services. But at the same time, there are some that clearly, without a doubt, as a result of conflicting priorities and policies within the departments.
We have directed departments to work together through the Social Envelope Committee to identify which ones are more communication-based, which ones are policy-based and come back with recommendations on how to start breaking down these barriers and remove them so that our residents are not forced to go into poverty or to have the housing challenges that have been identified over time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thanks to the Minister. This is the latter case, policy failures. I hope I’ve exemplified that in yet another example here. I would encourage the Minister of the Social Envelope Committee to speak to his colleagues. That’s why I’m speaking to this Minister on cross-departmental issues. I cannot speak to each of them and address these issues. That’s why we’re failing and that is exactly why we have a Social Envelope Committee. I encourage the Minister to find out why it is that the Housing Corporation has a limit on public housing as well, at the same time ECE is paying sky high market rents. Neither Minister can answer that question. This is a Social Envelope Committee question.
Would the Minister agree that public housing, with its sliding rent scale and relative stability, is a more effective way of providing housing for families in need while they make the productive choices we encourage, more effective that is, than using income support to pay rent in market housing where monthly rent can jump from zero to thousands of dollars depending on how a family’s income is assessed? Mahsi.
Mr. Speaker, I’m not sure what part of my last answer the Member didn’t understand, but I clearly articulated that we are working as Ministers on the Social Envelope Committee. I have shared this information with committee members and we have continued to have that dialogue. Clearly, we are doing what the Member is directing.
With respect to the specifics, I am happy to take the information that the Member is providing and to bring it into the Social Envelope Committee of Cabinet to continue to have that dialogue. I do acknowledge and agree with the Member that this one clearly sounds like a policy issue. I’m looking forward to getting the details from the Member, and I am looking forward to bringing it into the Social Envelope Committee of Cabinet to have further discussions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The Minister didn’t answer the question. I’ll just give him the question again here. Given the sliding scale and relative stability of public housing, why aren’t we going with that while making the public productive choices that we encourage? It’s much more effective to have that than a situation where monthly rent can jump from zero to thousands of dollars through the Income Support Program. That was the question. The Minister didn’t even touch on that. I will grant you that I’m dense and I didn’t understand something, if that helps.
Would the Minister agree that private landlords, such as Northern Properties, would also likely prefer to have the stable contracts that would be provided if the Housing Corporation was renting their units on a long-term basis instead of the unstable income support system?
Mr. Speaker, the Member is asking me for my opinion. I am happy to give it, but at the same time, I work with my colleagues in the other departments and as Minister responsible for the social envelope, I will continue to do that. We will analyze the questions that the Member is asking and we will come back to the Member with a unified response. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thanks very much to the Minister for that response. The Minister has done some sound work in producing an Anti-Poverty Action Plan. Here is another concrete suggestion that would significantly impact poverty levels in both Yellowknife and the communities where income support is paying for rent.
Would the Minister commit to reporting back on the feasibility of creating more public housing in these communities instead of income support housing? Mahsi.
Mr. Speaker, one of the reasons that the Anti-Poverty Strategy is as strong as it is, is because we work together collaboratively with the other partners and nobody made a unilateral decision on what programs and services would look like. I would hate to presuppose a solution when I haven’t had an opportunity to talk to my colleagues about what the Member is suggesting. I am very interested in the details from the Member. I think there might be some merit there, but I’m going to have a conversation with my colleagues on both sides of the House before I come forward with a decision. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As Members know and Cabinet knows, we have had some recent retrofits of some government infrastructure in Hay River. We appreciate these very much. Of course, I made reference today in my statement to the work that’s going on to construct a new regional health centre for Hay River. I have a question for the Minister of Public Works and Services.
Over the years we have talked a lot in this House about how to make new infrastructure owned and operated by the GNWT more energy efficient. I’d like to ask the Minister of Public Works and Services, are there any particular building techniques or building materials or technology or innovation that has gone into the planning of the new Hay River Health Centre that would see our costs of operation for that new facility be reasonable and energy conserving over the next many years? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Minister of Public Works, Mr. Beaulieu.
Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. The Department of Public Works does a lot of energy retrofits. We track all of the greenhouse gases that we save through energy retrofits. We track all of the money that we save by using energy retrofits and installing biomass in our buildings, then we put that money back into more energy retrofits and biomass.
With the hospital, we will be using a biomass heating system and the envelope of the building would be of a high energy standard. Thank you.
I’m very happy to hear that and the Minister referred very specifically to energy retrofits, but I’d like to ask: has there been a point at which the Department of Public Works and Services has introduced any new guidelines that ensure energy efficiency in the construction, not just the operation through biomass, for new infrastructure? Thank you.
Yes, we try to use the latest energy-efficient methods when we do new construction, as well, at this time. Thank you.
It’s no secret that we live in one of the harshest climates on the planet. It would reason well that our government, when investing millions of dollars in new infrastructure, we want to be on the leading edge, cutting edge. We would want to be the showcase of energy efficiency.
Again, I’m just curious, has the Department of Public Works and Services done anything above and beyond the standard national building codes for the various types of buildings that they build that would see our costs reduced to operate on an ongoing basis in the actual construction? I appreciate the biomass piece, but on the actual construction of buildings from here on out that would make them more energy efficient. Thank you.
Yes, the methods that are employed when we do new construction, the insulation value and the envelope of the building are designed to be as energy efficient as possible. So with the rising costs of energy right across the country, when we build anything new, we do that with the concept of having as energy efficient as possible construction as we can. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Final, short supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I understand it may cost a little more at the beginning when constructing a new building to put energy-saving materials and planning in place.
Does the Department of Public Works and Services have a plan or a template for a follow-up after that building has been operating for a while to see what the return on those initial investments are in a higher energy saving? Do they have something in place to monitor that so we can hear the accounting of what those savings are? Thank you.
With new buildings, it is anticipated that the energy costs would be much lower than other buildings built previously. There is no actual savings because we don’t have a comparative data, but when we upgrade older buildings into this type of energy-efficient envelope, increasing insulation values, we then take that and use those for all of the savings of the fuel that we burn or that we don’t burn, I suppose, on these buildings and then redistribute it into all of our energy programs.
For the new buildings, like I said, we would see a lot less cost than it would be having not constructed the building with energy-efficient methods and biomass. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Bouchard.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today will be for the Minister of Education about the junior kindergarten and getting an understanding of some of the concerns I’ve heard from in the South Slave about the education and the implementation of junior kindergarten. I’m just wondering after the three phases, after first phase going into smaller communities, the second phase going into Hay River, Inuvik and Fort Smith and then, finally, into the larger centre of Yellowknife. Once those three phases are completed, how will these organizations be able to operate under the premise of having an additional pressure of having all those four-year-olds without having any additional money?
Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. The Minister of Education, Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. After we complete the first, second and third year phase of introducing junior kindergarten, those students will be registered under enrolment funding. On an annual basis, we contribute to school boards, so those students, the 40 students projected for Hay River, will fall under the enrollment funding. So we will continue for a number of years. Also, if they are upwards of or increase of 16 to 1, then there is a PTR in addition to the funding that will be identified. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The other thing I have heard from the Hay River DEA, or the district education, was that they indicated they had to use some of their surplus to fund some of these JKs. Is that true?
I stated earlier that the surplus is at the discretion of the school boards, how they want to spend it, but we’ve always encouraged them to spend it on educational programming. It is up to the school boards to spend on programming in their communities and region. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
The Minister indicated earlier in some of the questioning that they were going to do some number crunching and there was going to be an announcement on new numbers. I was just wondering if they’ve indicated that they are going to implement this program, junior kindergarten, and over the three phases, wouldn’t they have done that number crunching before? Wouldn’t they have a complete picture of where the money is going to come from to fund junior kindergarten? Why is the number crunching coming now after they’ve indicated the three phases and all the expenditures that need to be done?
I met with board chairs and the superintendents on May 13th. Based on that, I had an in-camera discussion with the board chairs only. They gave me some ideas and suggestions about it not being mandatory, optional programming, and also having the four-day kindergarten. I was receptive to that and I said I would take that into consideration, which I did based on enrollment for school in the fall. So, Mr. Speaker, it was based on the recommendation of the school board chairs that we move forward on the changes. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bouchard.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister has indicated some of the projections of students. I guess those are some of the assumptions. My understanding is that junior kindergarten is not mandatory; it’s voluntary. So how can they be projecting what enrollments are if they aren’t mandatory, and would the department consider it to be a requirement to be mandatory?
Again, when I met with the school board chairs on the 13th of May, we gave them an extended week until the 23rd of May to go back to their communities and regions and identify how many students would be registered. So they had until May 23rd to give us the actual enrolment numbers, so it was based on the fact that we’re producing these numbers. It was corresponding with the school boards. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In a follow-up to questions on my Member’s statement earlier on prescription drugs and the misuse and possibly the over-prescribing of, more specifically, pain killers, I would like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services, what is the Minister doing to address the over-prescribing of pain killers and the misuse of prescribed drugs? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. The honourable Minister of Health, Mr. Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m glad the Member asked the question. Contrary to what has been suggested previously in the House, I as a Member, I as the Minister and the department both take this issue incredibly seriously. Within the department of Health and Social Services, our chief clinical advisor is actively involved in putting together a working group and committee, formed consisting of physicians and other health care practitioners, pharmacists and government personnel, to discuss and come up with solutions around the prescription drug abuse issue. Also, the department is working to set standards that will help guide physicians and nurse practitioners on prescribing opiates and other medications, but it’s not just within the department. The medical directors of the Northwest Territories forum is working on guidelines for controlled substances, and these would be territory-wide and include an educational component as well. These guidelines and standards are also going to include some work around the management of opiate dependence as well.
Once again, it’s not just the department and the medical directors. Under the Health Information Act we have the ability under Section 65 to actually put in a monitoring program, which will help provide information and the resources. We need to figure out what is happening with respect to prescription drug abuse.
Lastly, the federal government recently put money into their federal budget to address this issue because it is such a significant issue and the Ministers of Health across the country are working together to look for ways to address prescription drug abuse. So, a large number of things are happening, and we take this very seriously, and we are working to find solutions and provide tools that will help practitioners as well. Thank you.
Thank you. That was a really good update. I thank the Minister for all the information that he provided. He did mention that under Section 65 of the Health Information Act, which is slowly coming out and developing that monitoring program, I’m assuming that we can’t get that monitoring program until the Health Information Act comes into play here.
Is there anything that we can do to monitor any prescription or prescription drugs in the meantime until the Health Information Act gets ascent? Thank you.
Thank you. In the winter session there was some debate back and forth between myself and MLA Dolynny from Range Lake about our ability to monitor, and the Member did identify a large number of pieces of legislation and indicated that we can do a monitoring program. I was listening very closely to what the Member was saying and I asked the department for a comprehensive legal opinion on whether or not we could, and the department and the lawyers pointed out that we can’t take individual pieces of legislation and think about them independently. We have to look at how they crosslink. The bottom line is we’re still not able to put in the monitoring program. There are some barriers. We will be able to do it with the Health Information Act.
However, it was also suggested to me that with a minor tweak to the Pharmacy Act to include a notwithstanding clause related to the ATIPP, we would actually be able to put in a monitoring program. This is an important issue. I know Mr. Dolynny has raised it; I know Mr. Moses has raised it. We need to move forward on this. So I have come forward with an LP and I have provided to committee that it will allow us to make a minor change to the Pharmacy Act, which will allow us to put in the monitoring program that both Mr. Dolynny and Mr. Moses would like to see in place. Thank you.
Thank you. I think there are a lot of people in the Northwest Territories, especially the families, as well, would like to see that monitoring program in place to help those that are battling addictions of these pain killers and affecting their lives.
The Minister also mentioned a working group. Can we get a timeline as to when that working group will first be meeting and when they’ll get together to start looking at possibly developing a strategy and looking at areas to develop these guidelines on the monitoring and the tracking of these prescription drugs and looking at some of this legislation? Thank you.
Thank you. I did mention that there are a number of things going on, and there’s work at the federal level, but I’m happy to keep the committee updated on that as we move forward. There’s also the work of the Medical Directors’ Forum and I’m happy, as I get briefings, to provide that information to the committee, as well, but we also have the departmental group that is being led by our chief clinical advisor and that group actually has been convened. Their scheduled first meeting was for May. I will follow up to find out what the results of that meeting were, but there’s so much good work out there being done. As the Member mentioned in his Member’s statement, a number of reports have been done and one of the reports that was done was “First Do No Harm,” which was put together by the federal government, Nova Scotia and Alberta, and that report has been shared with all these different groups so that they can take best practices and lessons learned as they move forward to come up with some solutions. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think one of the main things is with the data collection monitoring, with the monitoring system, what kind of data collection will we have on file and how will that be used to develop future strategic plans, and will there be a data component in place and will it include not only drug misuse and over-prescribing but also stats that are related to overdose of prescription drugs? Thank you.
Thank you. Through the Pharmacy Act, with the amendment to the Pharmacy Act we’ll be able to track what has been dispensed. The interpretation of that data will have to be done and we’ll have to come up with some policies to figure out how to do the interpretation of that data so that we can try to understand where the abuses are occurring. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Nadli.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Income Support is a program that the government delivers and it’s targeted for the less fortunate. Usually it’s in the unfortunate circumstances that people find themselves in that they require assistance. So my questions are for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.
We’re delivering the productive choices program. What is the process to ensure that host organizations have the desire and the capacity to deal effectively with clients? Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Nadli. The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.
