Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Bromley. I have speaking to page 10-27 Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At the outset I want to say that I support the comments of Mr. Bromley in terms of a review of income support. There have been some changes made and I’m glad to see them, but I think history shows that when you make changes piecemeal without looking at the whole and seeing things in a total that it doesn’t necessarily create the best product. In my view, we need a review of the whole program and I think we particularly need to look at the policy of Productive Choices. I’m not so sure that is doing its job and that it really encourages people to get off income support. It’s tied in with ALBE and it’s a complex situation, but I’ll just leave that as a comment.
I wanted to also ask a question about the Seniors Home Heating Subsidy and I think the Minister, in his opening remarks, made some reference to the fact that they’re looking at seniors living with another person who has fairly high household income. Could I get an explanation from the Minister as to sort of whether or not I’m correct that the situation of seniors living with somebody else or somebody else living with a senior is being looked at and is the department contemplating an adjustment there.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. The Auditor General is doing an overall review of income support, more specifically to productive choices, whether it be home care, seniors’ fuel subsidy area. That is happening over the summer or fall. By Christmas we should have a report from them. Based on that, we need to re-evaluate our programming. It is going to be happening. When it comes to seniors’ subsidy, fuel subsidy, based on household income and I did instruct my department to look at some options. That is currently being developed as we speak. Once I review that and share it with my Cabinet colleagues, then I will definitely be sharing it with the committee members. It’s been brought to our attention that we need to make those changes so there’s not much impact on the seniors themselves. I’ve already committed that I’ll be reviewing those options and bringing that forward.
Thanks for the update from the Minister. I wanted to ask a question on this page related to student financial assistance. There has been a review of SFA which has been done. I think it’s completed. If I could get confirmation as to where that review is, if it is completed, and when Members could see the results.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. We’ll go to Ms. Iatridis.
The review of the SFA program is complete. The department has been working on a management response to the recommendations of the review and the report will be available to share this summer.
Thanks to the acting DM for that. I will look forward to reading that report. My last question has to do with indications in the budget that we’re getting an increasing number of applications for income support. It’s a trend that has been happening over the last several years and there are a number of reasons, I’m sure, why that’s happening. I’m not so concerned with the reasons because I believe they’re all valid, but I am concerned with whether or not the department has a strategy to deal with the fact that we have more and more people who seem to be needing income support and are asking us for income support. This is a huge dollar item in our budget. If we lived in a perfect world, nobody would be on income support and we wouldn’t have to spend that money. I would like to know if the department has a strategy or has any kind of a plan to try and reduce the amount of money we spend on income support by reducing the number of people who need to access it.
Since 2007 when we made changes to the Income Assistance Program, yes, the number of unique cases has risen right across the Northwest Territories. We have been monitoring the statistics NWT-wide, regionally and by community over the last five years and we’ve also been looking at the statistics by age ranges. About 30 percent of our clientele are between the age of 19 to 29. Part of our strategy over the last few years has been to connect the new Canada-NWT Labour Market Agreement which allows us to provide funding to people who are under-represented in the labour force. We’ve actually targeted a lot of our training to the income assistance clients. We do this through our regional service centres. Our career development officers work very closely with our client service officers through a referral process. We have had some specific projects that have taken place in some of the communities that targeted only income assistance clients. So we’ve removed them off of the Income Assistance Program, we’ve been able to provide them with some education and training and also a living allowance. We’ve seen, over the last five years, a difference in the number of youth between 19 and 29, the numbers have gone down slightly. We’ve been able to increase more support to seniors and persons with disabilities. So we’re monitoring it closely and working closely with our labour market programs.
That’s good to hear. Thank you very much.
Speaking on page 10-27 we have Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, just want to make the same comments as my colleagues here in regard to the income support. It’s very disturbing to hear that the large clientele is between the ages of 19 and 29. That’s very shocking and disappointing. Kind of contrary to Ms. Bisaro’s comments, the line item for income assistance is down from last year’s estimates by $60,000. Is the department looking at, due to our economic downturn, the increase in our general rate application, the lack of jobs in the communities? Does the department see more applications for income assistance, and if so, how are they going to reflect it in their budget?
Thank you, Mr. Moses. To respond we’ll go to Mr. Devitt. We’ll go to Ms. Iatridis for that one.
Under the Income Assistance Program it is a statutory program and we do monitor the expenditures carefully each year. If we are not able to cover the costs, if they’ve gone up, then we do put forward forced growth submissions to cover the costs, given that it’s a statutory requirement and we don’t have a cap where we deny clients assistance when they’re in need.
I really applaud the department for trying to get residents off of income support and anyone that’s going through income support through their Productive Choices program. I just wanted to ask a question. Has this program ever been evaluated and have they ever seen the effectiveness of this program?
Thank you, Mr. Moses. We’ll go to Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. We talked about the overall review back in 2007, made some changes, and now the Auditor General is going to make an actual review of our Income Assistance Program. More specifically on the Productive Choices program the Member is referring to, if it’s working, what’s working, what’s not working. We have been exploring some areas, as well, within our department and of course we need some support from the communities and also Assembly Members. These are just options that we’re throwing around.
We’re individuals working in the community, especially for the elders, getting wood or firewood or fish nets and other activities that they’ve been adapted to in the community. Again, it’s a liability issue that we have to be faced with. We have to deal with an axe and chainsaw and other equipment. Those are just some of the areas that we are exploring.
Our goal is, of course, to get people off income support. Every opportunity I get with my department, I’m always giving them a target that we need to get people off income support. I feel the same as the Member does, and we’ll do what we can to continue pushing that through Productive Choices and through labour market agreements. Individuals fall through the cracks. If they don’t qualify for EI, then the funding is there for them. We’re doing what we can to assist those individuals so they can pursue productive choices.
I just want to make a quick comment on the Productive Choices program. I do understand that when clients come and get funding, that the two choices they could possibly do is get some counselling or go do upgrading. In some instances what I’ve been hearing is that anyone who’s going through income assistance will go get their counselling. It’s not an effective counselling. They’re going there to get, possibly, a document signed, and then they take it to the income support office to get their funding. So they’re using up space which is really needed, because we have mental health issues in the communities. Those are where we need to find those instances and find better ways of dealing with it, because not all but we do have some people out there that know how to play the system, and when they’re put into a program where they have to go to counselling, it takes away time for people who really need that counselling and who want to get that counselling. There’s got to be a more effective way.
The same with the school system. Clients who are asked to go do their upgrading, they’ll go to school, be there for the attendance, won’t fully participate, and in some cases disrupt the other students who are trying to get the education. Those are two specific instances that I’ve heard about that really need to be addressed for people that aren’t wanting to use these Productive Choices effectively, they’re affecting other people’s way of life and ones that really do want to succeed or get the help that they need.
I just wanted to make a comment on Productive Choices. In that regard, I’m really glad to see that the Auditor General is going to be reviewing this specific program and hopefully we can put actions to the recommendations that come out of that.
In regard to the four programs that are mentioned in this section here, would it be possible to get a breakdown of how many applications that we do get for the programs, for each specific program, and then how many are approved and at what percentage? Because in each program, I’ve talked to residents where they have been approved or have not gotten approved for certain programs like this that really do need it. At some point if the Minister would be willing to get that information to me, that would be appreciated. Thank you.
I totally agree with the Member on the Productive Choices. We need to closely monitor what’s working and what’s not working. We realize that some individuals do take advantage and some are legitimate individuals that want to succeed in life. We need to closely monitor that and make changes reflecting that. We’ll continue to push that forward within our department.
And, yes, we’ll provide more detailed information on the four program areas, a breakdown for the Member’s review. We’ll definitely do that. Mahsi.
Committee, were on page 10-27, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, income security, operations expenditure summary, $39.668 million. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Page 10-28, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, income security, grants and contributions, grants, total grants, $9.240 million. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Page 10-29, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, income security, active positions. Any questions? Page 10-30, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, Student Loan Revolving Fund. Any questions? Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a quick question. I understand this revolving fund and I’m just wondering why the increase this year. I’m just trying to compare the two and, actually, I see the increase between ’10-11 and ’11-12 is roughly the same as between the most recent two years. I thought it was more, so I retract my question. No question.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Education, Culture and Employment, information item, Student Loan Revolving Fund. Any questions? Being none, 10-32, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, education authority program and services. Any questions? Being none, 10-33. Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. With regard to the Dehcho Divisional Education Council, there’s a reduction of four positions, as indicated in the details here. I’d just like an explanation from the Minister, please.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Minister Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. There have been some slight changes in the funding to various district education authorities. It all comes down to formula funding. The enrolment’s been down so that means some of the organizations are getting less money due to that fact. But we are closely monitoring that and working with the DEAs. Attendance is a big issue right now. It’s a challenge how we can rectify that. We will continue to work with that, but the explanation is due to enrolment.
Has the department been tracking why the student numbers have decreased at all? Is it the older age group? Is it the younger age group? What efforts are they taking to analyze this, and maybe if there are missing children from school, to perhaps get them back in school. What is the cause of these numbers and the reductions? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. For that we’ll go to Mr. Devitt.
Mr. Chair, enrolments have been decreasing in the Territories and, in fact, across the country because of declining birthrates. But in some communities, as well, as the Minister mentioned, it can be influenced by attendance, because we take that into account when doing enrolments as well. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Devitt. Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know that our Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative also addresses attendance. First of all, I had asked for the breakdown if it was attendance or else reduction in enrolment. Was the department able to clearly answer that question? Because the Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative was supposed to address attendance and getting our students back into the schools. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. For that question for the attendance, we’ll go to Mr. Lafferty.
Mr. Chair, my understanding is that it is a combination, but at the same time, the Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative is at the early stages. We’ve rolled out a couple programs. One is to deal with attendance. The other one is cultural orientation as mandatory. But others are coming along. It doesn’t really reflect on this yet, but some of the schools have seen an increase just last year as well. We’ll continue to work with this on ASA. All the parties are involved in these discussions as well. The DEAs are involved and are signatories to the ASA Initiative. Our goal is to improve and increase enrolment over the next few years. That is the overall plan. Mahsi.
I’ll certainly look to the ASA Initiative to track it properly and then do a good assessment, because I know that in our schools in the smaller communities, especially at the district, you see the loss of four positions, but a 0.5 position is a huge decrease in the very, very small communities at a time when we look to our education system and want to utilize as many teachers as we can. Having a reduction, even though it’s based on formula, it still impacts our school. I look forward to the progress of the Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. That is more of a comment. We will move on to Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I note three here that the Yellowknife District No. 1 has been covering for K’alemi Dene School in my community of Ndilo in Weledeh. I know that that community is interested in activating their education authority which they have chosen in the past and they have covered by Yellowknife District No. 1. I would like to get an update from the Minister on whether or not that will be happening this year and where we are at in discussions on that.
Minister Lafferty.
Mr. Chair, my understanding is that there have been discussions to that degree with the district education authority. There have been a lot of talks in making some changes when it comes to K’alemi Dene School in Ndilo having their own DEA. Those are discussions that we have been having. I believe there is a community survey that did occur that was provided to our attention. We consulted with other DEAs in Yellowknife, as well, especially with YK 1. We can provide more information to the Members. Mahsi.
Mr. Chair, I appreciate that information. Has there been a decision yet to reinstate that authority to Ndilo? Is it just a matter of when and figuring out the funding? Where are we at on that? Thank you.
Mr. Chair, I do remember signing a document, but I have to confirm that with the Members. I will be getting back to the Members on the actual status on our last discussions that we have had. We were getting close to the final stages of signing on, but I have to confirm that with the Members. Mahsi.
Mr. Chair, I look forward to that update. Just more general backing off to a bigger picture here, are our educational authorities consistently within budget from year to year? I know, for example, in some of our health authorities there, they are very challenged and they end up with some annual deficits. Could I get a little update on how the education authorities work fiscally? Thank you.
Mr. Chair, we have been fortunate that we haven’t seen much of a deficit within education district authorities. Yes, I realize that health and social services is a very challenging area and that they have been in deficit every now and then. Again, we have been fortunate that we haven’t encountered a substantial deficit in this area. That is being closely monitored by my department, working closely with the district education authority and the district education council as well. We will continue to address those matters. Every time we meet as board chairs, we discuss this. We will continue to do so. Mahsi.
Mr. Chair, thank you for that information. That is good news, indeed. I am assuming that if there are deficits in one, they might be covered by another. I guess I am interested in this. I won’t belabour it here, though, but I would like, from the Minister, a bit of an update, say for the last fiscal year, just as an example on how we handle evening out those things, dealing with the rare deficit that might occur, just to know there is a mechanism in place and how it works. That is all. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
We can definitely provide the information on the process, if there is a deficit, how we balance that within the DEA and DEC. By all means, we will provide more information on that. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Committee, we are on page 10-33. Education, Culture and Employment, information item, details of funding allocated to education authorities. Are there any questions? Being none, page 10-34, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, education authorities, active positions. Are there any questions? Being none, page 10-36, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, Aurora College Program. Are there any questions? Being none, page 10-37, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, Aurora College funding allocation. Are there any questions? Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have just a question. There is an increase of it looks like $200,000 or so. It is for buildings and works, from what I can tell. Could I get an explanation as to what that money is going to be used for? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Devitt.
