Mr. Chair, the money in buildings and works is largely for increases in leases that the college has. There is also a small increase in custodians associated with the Western Arctic Research Centre.
Page 10-37, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, Aurora College funding allocation. Any more further questions? Being none, page 10-38, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, work performed on behalf of others. Are there any questions? Being none, page 10-39, Education, Culture and Employment. Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a question here in regard to the Nunavut-NWT agreement for museum and archives collection. We are spending, I presume from here, $190,000. I wondered where the revenue shows up. I presume Nunavut is paying us for this service. I didn’t see it on the revenue page, I think page 9 of the document. It didn’t show it to me. Could I find out where it is shown? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Devitt.
Mr. Chair, work performed on behalf of others is not considered revenue. We have $190,000. It comes in as payment for services that equal $190,000 so it is all completely offsetting. Thank you.
Education, Culture and Employment, information item, work performed on behalf of others. Are there any questions? Page 10-40, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, work performed on behalf of others. Any questions?
Agreed.
We will return to page 10-7. Due to the deferred motion of 10-17, does the committee agree they will defer the final consideration of Department of Education, Culture and Employment?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. I would like to thank Minister Lafferty. I would like to thank Mr. Devitt and Ms. Iatridis for their time today. I will ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort them out of the Chamber. We will be continuing with the next department.
Okay, committee members, I’ll just direct your attention to section 11, Transportation. I will be going to the Minister of Transportation. Does the Minister have any opening comments?
Yes, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Then does the committee agree?
Agreed.
Go ahead, Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is my pleasure to present the 2012-2013 Main Estimates for the Department of Transportation. The main estimates itemize the department’s requirements to carry out activities detailed in our annual business plan. This plan will continue to protect our transportation infrastructure as we work toward our primary mission for providing for the safe, secure, accessible and reliable movement of people and goods, while looking toward the future and responding to the needs of the communities and industry.
The department’s main estimates propose an operations expenditures budget of $120.4 million, which is an 8.7 percent increase from the 2011-12 Main Estimates. The increase is largely due to the debt service payment associated with the Deh Cho Bridge which will be part of the operations budget once the bridge is complete.
In 2012-13 the department will continue to champion partnerships with Aboriginal and northern governments toward improving the transportation system, such as the Mackenzie Valley all-weather highway. The partnerships we foster along the valley and to the Arctic Coast are instrumental in moving the project forward. As indicated in the Commissioner’s opening address, this government is committed to doing things differently, which is evident by the Department of Transportation reaching out to involve Northerners in project development right from project inception. The project description reports for the southern portions of the highway, completed with Aboriginal groups along the valley, are being combined into one document that could be submitted to regulators for initial screening, pending future funding. The department is continuing to work on potential next steps, including seeking additional funding to advance this project through the environmental review process. The added bonus of the Mackenzie Valley Highway project is the common transportation corridor that may be shared with the Mackenzie Valley Gas Project and the Fibre Optic Link Project, supporting these two other strategic infrastructure priorities of this Assembly.
The department will continue working on required planning for the Inuvik to Tuktoyaktuk highway. The environmental review is underway and is currently in the technical review phase. The draft environmental impact statement has been subjected to detailed scrutiny by the review board and interested parties. The assessment examined the impact of the proposed development, the significance of those impacts, proposed mitigation measures, and follow-up and monitoring programs. This technical review identified a number of information gaps and commitments for additional follow-up work that will be addressed this summer. We will continue to keep Members informed as the department moves forward with project planning activities.
A sustainable future for our territory includes responsible stewardship of the land and environment. The Department of Transportation’s O and M budget includes $142,000 in incremental funding from the Building Canada Plan for continuing research to address infrastructure challenges due to climate change. Various best research initiatives related to climate change are currently underway and a Climate Change Adaptation Plan will be completed this summer. The Department of Transportation has also partnered with Transport Canada to help lead two national networks of expertise on climate change, one focusing on permafrost and the other on Arctic waters. These networks bring together researchers, scientists and practitioners to develop adaptation strategies and technologies to help mitigate the impacts of climate change. These activities will return dividends with valuable information leading to best practices for mitigating and adapting infrastructure to a changing climate.
In 2012-13 the department will continue construction of the Deh Cho Bridge. The bridge is the largest piece of transportation infrastructure in the NWT and the first to span the Mackenzie River. The historic opening will herald a new era of all-season access for people and goods into the North Slave region while increasing the reliability of access into the Slave Geological Province, thereby supporting the NWT economy and communities. The bridge is now in the final phase of construction, with the installation of the second tower and cables nearing completion. The bridge decking, grouting, paving and abutments and approaches are planned to be completed during the warm weather this summer and fall. The construction schedule remains a critical risk factor and the contractor has deployed extra workers over this next period to help meet critical milestones. The department is monitoring construction progress and costs very closely and is working with the contractor toward achieving the fall completion date.
Forced growth accounts for $1.198 million of the increase to the department’s O and M budget. The additional funding covers increasing fixed costs to deliver programs in various NWT regions. Much of the department’s forced growth is attributed to operation and maintenance contract increases in the airport, highway and marine activities, as well as additional operational pressures related to a more rigorous regulatory environment. Such investments are critical to maintain public safety and the integrity of the NWT highway system.
To increase employment opportunities where they are needed most, the department will continue in delivering the Marine Training Program, the Aviation Career Development Program and apprenticeship positions, with the goal of increasing the number of Northerners training and working in transportation-related fields.
The department has also made significant gains in the area of prevention. The Northwest Territories has been fatality-free on our roads, trails and waterways for more than 15 months and counting. I sincerely hope this unprecedented safety streak continues. Drive Alive, the department’s education awareness program, continues to advocate for individuals to make safer choices, including wearing seatbelts, helmets and personal flotation devices. Recent legislative changes that prohibit the use of hand-held devices are now in effect and should help to reduce incidents of distracted driving and help keep our roads safer.
As a department which provides a broad range of services to the public, I also wanted to note that the main estimates are forecasting an increase in general revenues for the 2012-13 year of approximately $500,000. The revenue increase is representative of the modest traffic increase projected on our highway and air systems and the resulting revenues related to user fees such as landing fees and commercial vehicle registrations. The department is currently conducting a rigorous review of all service fees to ensure they are fair, equitable and reasonable.
Thank you for the opportunity to provide a short update on the Department of Transportation’s main estimates. I look forward to discussing them with you in detail. Mahsi.
Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Does the Minister have witnesses you wish to bring into the House?
Yes, I do.
Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Does the committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Can I get the Sergeant-at-Arms to bring the witnesses into the House, please?
Thank you. Minister Ramsay, would you like to introduce your witnesses to the committee here?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my right I’ve got the deputy minister of the Department of Transportation, Mr. Russell Neudorf and to my left the assistant deputy minister, Department of Transportation, Mr. Daniel Auger. Thank you.
I’d like to welcome the witnesses into the House. I hope you’ve caught your breath. I saw you racing in here on your bike, so that’s good. We’re going to be opening up the floor here to general comments. What we’ve been doing here is opening comments to the Members, and the Minister will have an opportunity for reply at the end. We’d ask that the Minister take notes and hope to address the individual Members if there are specific questions in the opening comments. With that, I will open up the floor to general comments on Transportation starting with Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I won’t go on too long. I look forward to deliberation as we go through line by line. I press the case for most particularly Highway No. 7. I’ve been leading that charge for some time now. I look forward to, I’m going to have to agree with government, I guess, and look forward to the fall deliberations to get some capital funding and hope that we do get our fair share to address highway concerns on Highway No. 7.
Just with that, it’s just around the corner and I’m pleased that the Minister of Transportation will be travelling with me down Highway No. 7 this coming Friday and I look forward to that. The constituents are anticipating that visit as well. That’s something that I think is important for any Minister, is to see and feel the issues that are out there in the constituencies.
I’m still dismayed that there’s no money in this year’s capital budget, but I do look forward to maximizing the capital carryovers that will happen. I think about $1.3 million. We’ll make our best use of them this year.
I think earlier in the year, too, I think the January-February session, I got the commitment from the Minister to expend all these funds before August-September when we run into rain issues. I just, once again, would like the Minister to reiterate that, that he will convey to his department that they’ll complete the work that’s scheduled for the Nahendeh riding. I think there’s also some chipsealing around Checkpoint towards Fort Simpson that’s got to be completed when the weather’s good, not when it’s bad.
Constituents have always raised with me that due to the wet roads, the chipseal falls apart quickly. There’s probably no need for that. Once again, it would be timely to capitalize the early time this season to complete our construction work. There should be no issue and I think that we would look forward to that. That was one of the commitments and I’ve conveyed that to my constituents, as well, that the commitment is there and I certainly look forward to the early work being done.
There are other concerns, as well, out there, especially driving up to the continuation of the highway up to Wrigley. It’s gravel. In some places it’s very thin. I think in the past I’ve actually identified those kilometre areas for upgrades or widening. I’m not too sure if it’s on the books either, but the residents of Wrigley want to see completion of their projects there as well. I know there’s some maintenance issues scheduled there. I’m not too sure if there are any culverts at all, but the culverts that were being worked on last year really improved the highway system up towards Wrigley and we certainly look forward to more work on that section of the highway as well.
With that, I just wanted to raise those few issues here in the opening comments and I look forward to further deliberation as we move into the budget.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. On general comments we have Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Transportation department is going to be a very important department in the next five to 10 years from now. I see that there’s an 8.7 percent increase from 2011-2012 Main Estimates and I’m hoping that the increase will be higher and larger in the coming years.
I do want to take this time here to let the Transportation Minister know that we really need to get specific down to some of the highway strategies for the upcoming years. We have put some money aside already for the Mackenzie Valley Highway. Specifically, the federal government’s contribution to the Tuk-Inuvik highway. That highway is on the books, there’s commitment, and that’s a fact.
The other fact is that the Minister of Transportation and this afternoon the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment talked about the oil and gas potential activity in the Northwest Territories. He talked about the potential that may happen in the Sahtu. We need to look at our infrastructure priorities and nailing down some specific infrastructure priorities in transportation in the Sahtu. That will be our next priority. I think that needs to be discussed.
Ottawa needs to know that we have our priorities set here in infrastructure and that we would like to see that part of the highway that’s been planned through the PDR and the other good work being a priority of this government and this Transportation Minister possibly looking at a road from Norman Wells south. Start working to be supported by industry or government. We need to see that this is going to take some effort from this department and put this into a new highway or from Wrigley south. Either way, we need to get the portion of that highway system on the go and up and running.
That is sort of the hard statement I’m making here. We’re here for three years. We have limited time here. We need to get these on the books. Mr. Miltenberger said there’s a surplus of $74 million and that the GNWT has plans for the surplus in this year’s and next year’s budget. They need to start focusing on expanding roads, schools, airports and other public service facilities. I’d like to see the government’s priorities for infrastructure. He’s talking about starting focusing on expanding roads. For me, expanding roads means building new roads. The one, Tuk-Inuvik, that’s already on the books. We can start with other priorities. Ottawa needs to know what our other priorities are. What infrastructure priorities. We don’t have the means to take out the resources. We’re lacking, surely lacking the infrastructure and support from this government to support this Northwest Territories economy. We need roads and marine services support. We need to look at that.
On the Northwest Territories/Yukon border there is a project going up there called the Selwyn-Chihong Resources. They’re putting permits in place to extract the lead-zinc. It’s one of the world’s largest deposits of lead-zinc. Mind you, there’s about 85 to 90 percent of the mine on the Yukon border, but they’re using the Northwest Territories section to move the lead-zinc out down to the southern markets. They’re putting in the plan to build an all-weather road on the Northwest Territories side. They are downsizing because of the world market, just like the Mackenzie Gas Project is downsizing because of the natural gas prices. APG has downsized their office and one company has pulled out of the project and Imperial Oil has downsized their project. Selwyn Resources is going to use that section of the road. It’s going to hook to the North Canol Road going to the Yukon. We need to know if this government is going to put a few graders or a CAT or a truck to maintain that small section of the road. In our books it’s still our road. As much as you say no, no, this and that, it’s still on our books. In our books it’s still our road. Unless you take it right off and say it’s no longer our road, then I believe you. Right now you’re minimizing it by telling me it’s not going to be used much. Once Selwyn puts that road in and they start taking out that lead-zinc, that’s going to be a busy road.
I think you have a lot of surplus. You’ve got a lot of old dump trucks. I’ve seen them in some of your garages. Some of the old vehicles are still being used by them. You have good mechanics because they keep running and working well. You have a good staff there, Mr. Minister. They work hard. Kudos to them.
I’m looking at putting some of that old surplus there. I keep getting lots of reasons why we aren’t able or can’t and just won’t do it. We need to support that. It is a private road. Selwyn has a private road but they are going to go onto our road and there are going to be a lot of tourists coming through there to get to the Canol. That’s the Promised Land. I’d like him to see the work in that area.
The resources in the North are very rich. Yellowknife is very rich, very fortunate. They have a lot of things going for them. Very good for them. The department is doing some pretty good work. I support the Minister and staff. Get some good contractors doing the winter road. They do a good job on those roads.
We have good Aboriginal contractors who have negotiated good contracts with the department to build capacity in our regions. The principles of the negotiated contract are working. I want to support that with our contractors. I have seen where contractors have come from outside of the Sahtu that try to get into the Sahtu with low prices that just about drove our companies to their graves. Our boys stay there. Our women stay there. We pay the taxes, we pay the fuel and we live there. Thank God that negotiated contracts keep our companies alive. I want to say to the Minister we support – the other side is making me laugh. I want to say to the Minister that the principles of the negotiated contract have worked for us. That’s what I wanted to say. I have seen it in my nine years. I want to say, continue working with the contractors in the Sahtu and other communities.
I have other questions for the Minister as we go page by page.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. On general comments I have Mr. Bouchard.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Department of Transportation is one of the larger budgets and one of the most interesting, and one of the ones that I probably get the most calls about.
One of the first issues I want to bring up with the department in the processes that they have, I know the department has reviewed and tried to deliberate on how to implement their contracts, their tenders and their projects. I’ve been getting a lot of complaints on the fact that a lot of the projects are getting overwhelmingly large and being bundled together. Whether it’s the culvert projects or whether it’s signage or whether it’s some of the drainage work that’s being done, it’s all being lumped into one big contract. Some of the smaller contractors and some of the manufacturers aren’t able to bid on the department’s contracts as they stand. I’d like them to spend more attention to allowing northern content to be maximized.
Along the same line of thought in the maximization of northern content are the negotiated contracts. I understand the department’s concept of trying to keep the work in the North and often to the Aboriginal companies or northern companies, but we also have to make sure that those companies go forward and maximize their expenditures in the North, in the region.
Some of the issues that the department is working with is the Tuk to Inuvik highway, and I look forward to the information that the department is going to spend on getting what those costs will be, the future debate and discussions with the federal government on this 75/25 split, and is that 75/25 split the same amount if that budget goes way up above our estimated costs right now.
I’m also looking forward to, like my colleague from the Sahtu, the continued discussion and the future plans for the Mackenzie Valley Highway and the future plans for that project.
The Deh Cho Bridge, obviously, one of the big issues for the incoming Minister, I would think, as he was a big advocate of getting this bridge done as quickly as possible so we can mitigate some of the high costs that are already there. Along with that bridge, I have some concerns on how the toll system will be set up in the future here, what the costs are going to be to the general public, and how that’s going to affect contractors and shipping companies.
One of the other areas that I have concern with is the safety programs. The Drive Alive, I think it’s going well, but I think we need to work on some of the highways that are of concern. I will give a plug for Highway No. 7. I think it’s a key factor for tourism in the south and also Yellowknife. I think we have a big group of people that travel the Alaska Highway that are looking for ways to come back or visit another territory, and that’s one avenue. One of the issues out there is that Highway No. 7 is passable most of the time in the summertime, but lots of time you have to put it with the disclosure if it’s not raining, if it hasn’t been raining, it’s fine to go down. But if it isn’t, then there are a lot of people that are not recommending to travel it. That’s part of the year.
I’d like to give the department a little bit of a compliment. This is one of the rare departments where the jobs are out in the regions. I think it’s natural just because of the business they do, the grader work, the work out on the roads has to be done regionally, so I commend them on that. That’s one of the rare departments that I see that we actually have a decentralized department.
From Hay River’s perspective, we’d like to see some additional dredging being done in Hay River, dock maintenance, some dollars spent in that area. We’re seeing more and more difficulties with ships, whether it be large ships such as NTCL’s boats or the fishing industry having difficulty, even recreational vehicles having difficulty getting in and out of the waterways easily. We need to look at finding dollars to do some of that maintenance.
One of the areas that the department has just newly introduced is the new motor vehicle system. I’ve heard lots of complaints about the system. I think it was launched a little early and it needs to be updated. I think, again, the regions need some control and they’re not given those controls to change the system. The system is closed in and is being controlled by Yellowknife and is being handled by Yellowknife. That’s fine if Yellowknife is available immediately, but if Yellowknife is backlogged with complaints, then the system in the region is backlogged and those customers are backlogged. We need to get that system working better.
One of the other areas of concern in this department is the large carryovers. It is a large budget, and I understand it’s been a large budget in the last few years, even larger, but we have large percentages of the budget that are being carried over. I think we need to make sure that those numbers go down and we get those dollars out to the region, especially when we have an economic downturn right now in the territory. I think we need to put that money out to the territory and let the contractors have that work, and like I indicated earlier, make sure that we’re maximizing northern economy and making sure that the money is staying in the North. I think this department is a large economic driver and I hope that we get all the carryovers completed this year.
I’ll have more questions in the detail. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Speaking to general comments, I have Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’ll keep them brief here. I know that the department is doing some work in the fuel efficiency area, particularly in the marine transportation and in some of the greening of the transportation facilities. This is good work that needs to continue and, in fact, needs to be government-wide. For the Department of Transportation, the potential gains compared to the emissions of greenhouse gases, for example, are pretty modest. So, much more serious is the greenhouse gas emissions and environmental impacts from transportation activity itself.
I’d like to know what this department is doing to ensure net emissions from transportation decline over time as per our goals of the greenhouse strategy, the goals of this government and hopefully all governments around the world, and particularly what programs of support does this department have for businesses and residents. What sorts of standards are they providing? What education and what legislation is being considered ultimately to achieve this?
Just sort of related to that, I want to comment briefly on one part of the Minister’s opening remarks where he refers a couple times to mitigating the impacts of climate change. It’s presented almost as a positive thing, and to some degree it is, because we need to adapt to the problems that climate change is bringing to us, but the basic message cannot be confused here that climate change has impacts. When we have to mitigate those impacts, those are costly and those are costing us more and more every year. What we really want to do is focus. We need to mitigate the impacts of climate change, but more important than that, according to all the science, we need to mitigate climate change itself. As with all of our programs, prevention is the rule.
I’m going to leave it at that. Thanks for this opportunity.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Speaking to general comments, I have Mr. Blake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just to the budget for Transportation, a few things that I’m concerned that aren’t in the budget. One of the big issues for the people of Aklavik is the access road to Willow River. I was hoping to see that in this budget but, hopefully, within the fall, during business plans next time, we could try to find some sort of funds to allocate to the community to proceed with that project.
Also, one thing that’s not in the budget this year is the funds to allocate to maintain the receiver on the Rat Pass. That’s only $10,000 that we’re talking about. Many people in the Mackenzie Delta rely on the Rat Pass channel for communications. It’s a major safety issue. And not only in the Mackenzie Delta, but we have people in the Inuvik riding, as well, that make use of that channel.
Also, under the marine operations, in the past it’s been always a practice to hire locally when working near a community. I’ll just use Tsiigehtchic as an example. At the moment, whenever we are either taking the ferry out of the water or launching the ferry, we bring people in from other communities. The community is dead set against that. They want to see their people working during those many jobs in the smaller communities that are seasonal. They would like to see their people work in there.
At the moment, the department is doing a very good job on the Dempster Highway, I must say, compared to the highway on the Yukon side. Our highway, I believe, is much better quality. It is a lot safer for our residents. They are doing a good job in that field. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Blake. Are there any further general comments? Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will just provide a couple of quick ones. First of all, I see there is no mention about the work being done on Highway No. 4, unless I missed it. I will also say that I don’t notice much being planned. I know this is not a capital budget, but there is no mention of Highway No. 7 at this time either. I think these are two major projects that seem to be put on the backburner. As I realize, this is not a capital budget, but the fact is that these are major initiatives. There is one all left off the table and one is being worked on behind the scenes. You would think that Highway No. 4 would get a little mention in the Minister’s opening comments considering it was being hailed as a triumph of opportunity a few weeks ago.
The other thing is I am surprised how little discussion about the Deh Cho Bridge is on these particular opening comments. I see that they highlighted the decking, the grouting and whatnot. One of the things that needs to be heard in the public is the fact is the milestone of it going to open this fall going to be met. I think that is a critical question that needs to be asked.
The Minister, when he was a Member, that is, asked a lot of good questions about scour rock and a hole in the pier, and I think those questions still remain outstanding. If the Minister’s replying to my opening comments would update his… Are they fishing off the scour rock in Norman Wells by now? Will they be talked about regularly?
As far as the Inuvik-Tuk highway goes, I am glad it is certainly mentioned here, because I think that preliminary work needs to be done. I stand by that. I will be steadfast on that initiative, that that work needs to be done, but repeatedly, I know I asked and committee had asked for milestones in our own sense the matrix of opportunities where we start seeing milestones passed and certainly voted on. That still remains outstanding, that request that was made in February that the project would have some identified milestones so that we would know what the project looked like in advance of being told, oh, by the way, we have passed too much. We have reached the halfway point. We have to keep going. I think that is only fair to the taxpayer that we know those things. That was at least as I understood it, that was the commitment made by the Minister in the committee. It still remains outstanding. It is a bit of an important point not to miss, because how often we heard about the Deh Cho Bridge, that we have reached a certain point, we couldn’t go back. The fear is this is our second time around on these particular projects, and I would certainly like to see well in advance where these primary points are that, when we are voting on them, we know what we are voting for and we see and realize what risk we have put in front of us and certainly what we will be putting behind us at the particular time.
Mr. Chair, it is all I have to say on this particular topic of transportation at this particular time. I certainly look forward to hearing a future development about that potential partnership up the valley. Still, not a lot of details have come forward. Even for myself, I would like to request something formal, whether it is a briefing note or a package of some sort that addresses the issue that is being worked on up there. I often hear just little pokes, something is being looked at, some discussions happening, but I wouldn’t mind getting a sense of what is happening. If I could be provided some information on that particular subject about this so-called development of a partnership to build the highway, that would be quite helpful. I would be surprised if committee members didn’t want that type of information as well. When I say committee in this context, I refer to all 11 Members on the Members’ side.
At this particular time I have nothing further. I shall and probably will in some cases have comments on specific pages, more maybe on some, less on others. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Continuing on general comments, we will turn back to Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am going to ask the Minister… In his opening comments, he talked about the activity. This is an O and M operational budget. I want to take the opportunity for the Minister if there is somewhere later on in the detail that would speak to looking at having some Transportation permanent positions in the Sahtu, somewhere down the line that the Minister can come back to this House or through some briefings. They are Transportation for highways. It does come out of Fort Simpson’s operation and our airport’s Transportation comes out of Inuvik. I think we have arrived at a place where we should be able to, could be able to, and can’t have the ability to have our own operations in the Sahtu and manage our own affairs, so to speak. I look forward to some type of discussion or initiative on the operation plans. When do you think it could be done in stages? It can be done over time. We need to see some movement. I look forward to that.
The other one is I want to ask – I wonder if the Minister could help me here – how did we arrive at 75/25 split with the territorial government? Is there a policy that we have or is there a policy within the federal government that says definitely we would pay the 75 percent on projects like the Inuvik-Tuk highway, the territorial government would pay 25 percent? Can the Minister show me a policy or is there just a letter or indication from the federal government saying this is what we stick to, because if I am reading in the papers and if the numbers are going up on the northern portion of the Mackenzie Valley Highway, then it brings me some concern. Of course we want to support, but when the numbers are starting to fall apart and there are new numbers coming up just like the Deh Cho Bridge, we have some concerns here. We need to ask those hard questions to the Minister to satisfy our need for if things are changing, if things are not going to stay the same all the time, because those numbers affect our own needs for our own infrastructure in our own communities.
I think the federal government also needs to know that we are moving ahead on these projects. I am looking forward to when the Minister opens the Deh Cho Bridge. It is a good thing. It went through a lot of turmoil like a washing machine because of all the stuff. That is part of learning. That is part of growth. We are doing the same thing with the Inuvik-Tuk highway. We do probably other major projects like that too. Not to shy away from it, that says a lot. We are a young territory. It makes things a little difficult to construct sometimes in the Northwest Territories. So I would ask the Minister about the 25/75 split and if Ottawa is solid on that. Do we know that the federal government is solid saying yes, they are going to cut a deal with 75 and you guys take care of the 25, that’s it? So when the project begins, the Tuk-Inuvik road that we’re not 26 percent and they’re not 74 percent. We stay at 25 and they stay at 75. Can we hold their feet to the fire on that ratio? How strong are we? So that’s what I wanted to ask the Minister and it’s a fair question, I think. At the end of the day, if the numbers are not there for us, will the Deh Cho Bridge go over the $200 million mark? Right now we’re just about there. If I’m going to go into that saga, I want to see that construction piece finished.
So for me, Mr. Chair, those are my general comments until we go to detail.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Returning to general comments, I have Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There was just one more thing I had forgotten to mention and I could be mistaken on this particular situation and I have no energy to run upstairs to go research it quickly, but I’m sure I read in the newspaper an advertisement, a position for some type of project officer or manager on the Inuvik-Tuk highway to be posted in Inuvik, and I did think that that was a little advanced in full consideration that the project hasn’t been approved yet.
Again, as I said earlier, I certainly supported the project description and sort of some of the environmental work that needs to be done in advance. That work needs to be done, it has to be done and that work is critical in order to make the types of assessments in budgets and decisions for us to plan to go forward. So that’s why I don’t have any particular issue with that work being done. But it did seem a little odd, from my perspective, and I have to admit I’m sure I wasn’t the only one that noticed it that looking for a project officer or manager. That may not be the right phraseology and I would hope we wouldn’t get stuck on that type of problem, but the fact is that it seems like there was one position being sought after in Transportation.
I think, ironically, Mr. Chairman, wouldn’t it be funny if we ran out and hired somebody and the project was delayed another year or two? So I guess the assumption is, has the department decided that the project is going ahead before Assembly approval, and if they could also confirm about that particular position that’s being sought after at this particular time in advance of an approved project. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. That appears to conclude general comments. We’ll give the opportunity to the Minister to respond. Minister Ramsay.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I’ll start at the end. It’s better for my memory that way. The first issue that Mr. Hawkins had, I just wanted to clarify. There is a tremendous amount of work that the department is putting into the Inuvik-Tuk highway. That was a director-level position. It was advertised, it was subsequently cancelled and we’re managing internally for now with a gentleman in that position. So that’s that part.
Also, I wanted to mention, if I could, the Deh Cho Bridge, and Member Hawkins had brought this up as well. What we’re trying to do right now is put together the most comprehensive, up-to-date package on the status of the project, and it’s my belief that we will be able to get before committee during this sitting of the House so that we can provide committee and Regular Members with an up-to-date, factual, comprehensive report on the Deh Cho Bridge. That is before we go to our summer assemblies and the House recesses for the summer. It’s important that Members get that level of detail and we will be discussing the Deh Cho Bridge much more during this sitting.
Also, Member Hawkins talked about Highway No. 7 and I know a couple of other Members had talked about Highway No. 7 as well. Again, this is an O and M budget. Going forward we’d made a commitment to the Member for Nahendeh that we will take a serious look at Highway No. 7 and we will be doing that. I’m looking forward to travelling with MLA Menicoche to Nahendeh on Friday to have a firsthand look at Highway No. 7 and I look forward to the meetings that we have set up there with community leaders as well.
Moving on to, I guess I’ll go to Mr. Yakeleya. I’ll answer Mr. Yakeleya’s comments. I know Mr. Yakeleya has often wanted to have an office, a Transportation office set up in the Sahtu. I think the best way we can get that accomplished is to have a highway run right through the Sahtu, an all-weather road down the Mackenzie Valley. I think that would be the impetus to really take a good look at staffing positions in the Sahtu when we do have an all-weather road going through there. That’s not to say that we shouldn’t be looking at opportunities. Again, that’s going to be an exercise the government is going through on positions and where things are located. That could be an opportunity, as well, but certainly as we go forward here I think that’s probably where that’s at.
On the 75/25 split, we’ve heard that from federal officials. It’s based on a precedent from the Building Canada Plan and the $150 million commitment. That’s where the 75/25 split would come in. If the costs of the Inuvik-Tuk highway are more, 25 percent, if we have to look at putting in more than $75 million or $80 million, then we would have to discuss with the federal government what our belief where the split was and we were of the belief that it was 75/25. So that’s the premise that we’re working off of. We’re still doing the geotechnical work, the environmental assessment is still underway, it’s gone through the technical review. We will get a clear indication and determination on what the final costs will be. We’d be just guessing right now. We could throw many different numbers out there, but I think until we go through that EA process and find where the aggregate is, and that of course is the biggest cost in constructing a road, then we’ll get a better determination on what the costs are.
Mr. Yakeleya also talked about the statement I made earlier today on the petroleum resource in the Sahtu, and again, I know the Member was listening closely to that statement. We did put a plug in there for all-weather roads in the Sahtu and how integral they are to the economic growth and prosperity in the Northwest Territories and in the Sahtu specifically. I do believe that with resource development we will see a push toward the development of our transportation infrastructure – the two go hand in hand – at the earliest opportunity. I’ve had discussions with both deputies with Transportation and ITI on trying to get in front of the Sahtu Explorer Group at the earliest possible time and begin some preliminary discussions on the future of transportation infrastructure in the Sahtu. As the resource there, the Canol shale formation is proven up. I do believe we have some very, very good upside to discussions with industry on the development of transportation infrastructure in the Sahtu. I look forward to those discussions. I know the Member is excited about that possibility, as well, so we’ll continue to work toward that.
In the meantime, we’re getting some positive indications from CanNor on funding to continue with the work up and down the valley. That’s an important next step.
I’ll go now to… Mr. Menicoche had talked about Highway No. 7 and I think I’ve responded that we are interested in seeing some capital funding for Highway No. 7. We’re going to have to put our minds around how we get a sizeable capital program in there. The highway itself needs a complete rehabilitation that could cost upwards of $200 million. We need to make sure that we have money on a go-forward basis that’s going to address the concerns there on an annual basis. I’m looking forward to discussions on that again this fall.
We have been blessed recently with some warm, dry weather and that hopefully is going to allow us to get, as soon as that road dries out, the $1.3 million in carryover funding for Highway No. 7. We’ll be able to get that to work as soon as we possibly can. Again, if the weather holds out and the road continues to dry, I know there was a big snowstorm and a lot of precipitation there a couple weeks ago. We’re hoping that the weather does stay well.
On the Wrigley portion of the road we do not have any capital today for improvements on that road. We did see some improvements with the Enbridge spill. There was some money that went into improvements on the road. That highway obviously has a very low traffic volume. If it does become a bigger issue, I think again through the capital planning process we could try to identify funds for that section of the highway.
I’ll move now to, I believe it was Mr. Bouchard, talking about larger projects and how smaller companies are having a hard time getting in the door and how we need to maximize northern content. I agree with the Member. We do have to take a look at this. I think going forward there have been changes to the Business Incentive Policy recently that will take a look at where subcontractors are coming from. I think that’s going to help. Speaking just for the Department of Transportation’s contracts, 91.5 percent of our contracts in value – and this is in the fiscal year 2011-2012 – went to northern and local companies. I believe the department is doing a very good job on trying to keep money in the Northwest Territories. That to me is a primary goal and objective, is to keep money circulating in the northern economy. By spending 91.5 percent in 2011-2012, I think that’s a good indication that DOT is doing just that.
Mr. Bouchard also talked about the Deh Cho Bridge. Obviously the expectation is that it will be open in November. We’re optimistic again that that is going to happen. We will, as I mentioned in response to Mr. Hawkins, have a full and thorough presentation to Regular Members during this session and I look forward to discussing that project much more in depth when we get that opportunity.
Also, we are trying to help organize some dredging in the port of Hay River. I know how important that work is to the town of Hay River and to the marine operations in that town. We’re looking forward to doing that. Eventually we are going to need a sizable amount of capital dollars and we’re going to continue to press the federal government on the requirement for money to dredge the port of Hay River and we’ll continue to work towards that.
On the motor vehicle information system, we did receive some complaints early on in the rollout of the new system. The Member raised it again today and that was the first time I’ve heard it in some time. With any new system there are going to be a few growing pains and we’re going to need to work through those growing pains. I believe we will get there. We’ll see those concerns decline over time and I believe they have.
I agree with the Member and I believe maybe another one of the Members had mentioned the amount of carryovers. We really need to address that and I agree with the Member. We need to figure out a way to ensure that the capital dollars that we have and the projects that we have are going to be delivered in a timely fashion. I hope that going forward, and as Minister I take this very seriously and I want to see the amount that the department’s carrying over on an annual basis reduced. I think once we get over the hurdle of opening the Deh Cho Bridge this fall, I think we’ll see some more push on getting the projects that we have completed and I look forward to doing that.
Mr. Blake talked about the access road to Willow River. Again, we have supplied some money through the Community Access Road Program over the past two years. I believe it’s in the second year of funding on the PDR, the development of that for the access road to Willow River. This is similar to the road to Source 177 in Tuktoyaktuk. It’s going to be about 18 to 19 million dollars. If it’s determined to be a real need in the Mackenzie Delta for the town of Aklavik, that is something that we will have to look at down the road.
Also we’re looking at options with some contractors on maintaining the receiver at Rat Pass open.
I’ll take the Member’s comments about seeing the people from the community doing the work on the ferries. He didn’t get into specifics but I will look at that and maybe I can talk to the Member and see if there are some specifics that he has. Maybe we can go from there.
I wanted to thank Mr. Blake for his comments on the work that’s done on the NWT side of the Dempster. That is a very nice thing for him to say and we appreciate that. I’ve also had discussions with my counterpart in the Yukon talking about the discrepancy between the NWT side and the Yukon side in terms of maintenance. I brought that to his attention. We’ll see if Yukon is going to put some more effort and impetus on their section of the Dempster across the NWT border.
Mr. Bromley talked about climate change and if we don’t mitigate it’s going to cost us more and more. I agree with the Member. I think we are doing the best that we can. I know it’s a big issue but it’s one that the department takes seriously. The federal government regulates fuel efficiency. Our job, I believe, with all the equipment and operations that the department has, is to educate not only our staff but the public. That’s where I see our role and I think with some of the initiatives that the department has taken I think we are taking a lead role across government in doing some of this work. I’m excited about the fact that we’re involved in some of these national organized efforts on looking at climate change and the impact on infrastructure. Again, I think that is going to help us as we continue to look at the impact climate change has on us. I agree with the Member, we need to look at the cause of climate change not just how we react to it.
I do think I’ve covered everybody that provided opening comments. If I missed anything, if Members wanted to get to that during the detail, I’d be more than happy to expand on anything at that time.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Committee Members, noting the clock I will now rise and report progress. We’d like to thank the witnesses here for your time today and we’ll be continuing… We’ll be seeing you shortly after the break. Thank you.
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Welcome back, committee. Mr. Minister, you have witnesses to return to the House?
Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses in.
Welcome back, Mr. Neudorf and Mr. Auger. Committee, are there any other opening general comments? Are we agreed general comments are concluded?
Agreed.
Okay, we will move on to detail. We will turn to page 11-7, which is deferred until we’ve considered the rest of the budget. We’ll move to 11-8, information item, infrastructure investment summary. Seeing no questions, we’ll move on to page 11-9, information item, revenue summary. Seeing no questions, we will move on to page 11-9, information item, revenue summary. No questions. We will move on to page 11-10, information item, active position summary. Any questions on this page? We’ll move on, committee. Page 11-13, activity summary, corporate services, operations expenditure summary, $10.228 million. Are we agreed? Mr. Dolynny.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I’d like to ask the department, any monies left over from the Building Canada Plan, any of those monies left, what projects are being used during this fiscal budget year? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Neudorf.
The majority of the Building Canada Plan is capital and we have three projects that are with new funding underneath the Building Canada Plan, Highway No. 4 project, Highway No. 3, and I believe some more money on Highway No. 1. In the O and M budget there’s just the one project that’s funded underneath the Building Canada and that’s the research and development related to climate change. Thank you.
