Thank you. Page 9, Public Works and Services, capital investment expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $4.414 million. Mr. Dolynny.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just more of a clarification on some of the asset management lines in this budget category, the first of which is the deferred maintenance - various for over $2 million. If we can maybe just get the department to highlight what some of those top line entries are for that supp. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Guy.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The projects that are identified under that rolled up number include projects that have extended over two years that are represented by contracts that we have in place, and those specific contracts we have are work related, with fall protection on a roof health facility here in Yellowknife, placement of an unground fuel storage tank in a health facility here in Yellowknife, replacement of windows and doors on a school in Hay River, and a siding replacement on an office building the government has in Fort Simpson. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Guy. Public Works and Services, capital investment expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $4.414 million.
Agreed.
Petroleum products, not previously authorized, $298,000.
Agreed.
Thank you. Public Works and Services, total department, not previously authorized, $4.712 million.
Agreed.
Page 10, Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, health and social services programs, not previously authorized, $26.077 million. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to follow up on the Stanton Hospital line items here. What was the budget? I understand that this is work that wasn’t done. It was supposed to be done. What was the budget for the work that was to be done in the year that this carried over from?
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Guy.
Madam Chair, on Stanton Territorial Hospital, the budget was $345,000 for seclusion room upgrade and the amount being carried over is $286,000. On the planning study for Stanton Territorial Hospital, I believe the budget was $5 million. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Madam Chair, I have to say that this has been a decade-long procrastination in striving for an effective response by the government to the deteriorating conditions at Stanton Territorial Hospital. I know others regard this as an utter disgrace and failure to deliver on our responsibility to provide priority and best care hospital services for the people across the NWT. Here we have yet further information that we are continuing to fail to perform these duties even on the relatively modest work that has been authorized in light of the work that we know is needed in the order of 200 to 400 million dollars of infrastructure work to upgrade this deteriorating facility. As a result, again, the health care of our citizens is compromised. There is a lack of security, lack of safety. There is lack of efficiency in delivery and failure on preserving dignity in patients because of the lack of privacy. Meanwhile we are taking on new projects at the drop of a hat that are costing us tens or hundreds of millions of dollars.
What are we going to do to get this up to speed? Again, six years in politics working on this. I know my colleagues have worked hard before me and recognize the deteriorating situation now. Committee has had tours of the hospital. We realize the difficulties that it presents in delivering this health care. What can be done? Where is the accountability on this? What are we going to do to accelerate and start addressing this? So far I ignore the deficit. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.
Madam Chair, if you actually look across the whole health care system, I think the government, Health and Social Services, Public Works and Services has and is doing a commendable job in terms of infrastructure in Fort Smith, Hay River. We have done Aklavik.
In my life as a politician, we opened up the Inuvik hospital. We are looking at facilities in Norman Wells, places that had older infrastructure, places that had no infrastructure. At the same time it is now clearly Stanton’s time and we are putting in money. There’s $20 million in next year. We recognize that we’re going to be putting significant dollars in once the planning studies are done.
The commitment is there from this Legislature, from the government, but we shouldn’t make, I don’t think, sweeping condemnation of the whole system when you look at all the things to be done. We have to address many needs and I think we’ve done that in effective ways.
So, clearly, we are now committed to getting this project done. It will be probably the biggest project we will have done and that will be bigger even than the Tuk-Inuvik highway and it’s definitely bigger than the bridge. So we are going to put those resources to bear and it will be done.
Obviously, I have a lot of problems with the Minister’s comments. We’re not talking about facilities elsewhere; we’re talking about Stanton Territorial Hospital, our premier health service centre for those that are in desperate need of care. They come here from across the Territories.
I’d say there is certainly no clear commitment that the Minister continually refers to with budgets like this for the work that’s required. We’re talking more than the Tuk highway, which is probably a 300 or 400 million dollar project or more. We know it’s well over $300 million and we’re talking about $2 million budgets and $5 million budgets. We’re continuing to procrastinate here.
So I ask the Minister where is the clear commitment that he’s referring to here as we take on new projects and dedicate whether we throw $60 million on to a project this year and not a territorial project.
The Member and I will have to, I suppose, agree to disagree in terms of our commitment, our commitment to Stanton, our commitment to managing a whole system for all Northerners wherever they live.
Recognizing that Stanton is our flagship, it is now in need of the repairs. That need has been increasing. We’re going to be putting in $20 million next year. The class C estimate will be done this fall, and as that comes due and as we look at it, then we will look at the financing and timeline. But I don’t think that the Member should doubt for a second that we don’t recognize, we this Legislature and we the people of the North devalue Stanton. The commitment is there; maybe not to the level that the Member would want, but it is there.
Again, I’ll leave it at that and I don’t see the commitment. We’ve dedicated a paltry $5 million to this long-ignored situation and half the work got done. What kind of commitment is that? I’ll leave it there.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. I don’t know if that was a question or a rhetorical question. I’ll move on now to Mr. Dolynny.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I also agree with my colleague from Weledeh here to a certain degree. There is a definite need. What we’re seeing here today is just a very small glimpse of what potentially might happen. We’re hearing numbers from the Minister of $20 million investment in the future, but we’re talking a much more larger project than that moving forward.
I have grave concerns myself as to what are we going to do in the interim. We’ve heard the word “flagship,” and I believe it is our flagship in our delivery of premier health care services in the Northwest Territories.
That said, that building, that infrastructure was designed for only about 10,000 visits per year, and it’s clear from the administration that we’re doing twice that. We’re doing about 20,000 visits per year. This building is well beyond its capacity today and I am very fearful that we’re putting at risk patient care, even though I know what we’re delivering there is ultimate care.
The people that are working there, I commend what they’re doing. We saw physiotherapists, eight of them, working out of the size of a closet and you can’t have that. You can’t continue on that pathway. So I agree with Mr. Bromley; we need to have a serious look.
We’re seeing some commitment here, but as I am well aware in government here, I hear the word planning, feasibility study. That means it might get done; it might not get done when there are competing priorities as things come up. So unless I see something firm and fast on a budget, in my mind it’s a potential and I will leave it at that.
Madam Chair, my question has more to do with the Electronic Medical Records System Project where we see a line entry of an appropriation of a little over $2 million. I realize that this has been a multi-year, multi-term commitment. I know we’ve got federal funding. If I can get some explanation here as to where we are at with this EMR total budget and what does this $2.9 million mean in terms of the scope and detail we are at today with EMR. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Madam Chair. With regard to the Stanton budget, the budget is reflecting $20 million for next year and every year forward until it’s complete. Those numbers are clear commitments, and once the class C estimate is in, we will be having an even more refined discussion about the timelines and cost and what money needs to be put on the table. But right now we have that number in there.
We are also going to be doing, as we are obligated to under our P3 policy, a review of the project to see what is possible through the P3 side.
With regard to the medical records, I’ll ask the deputy minister of Finance to give the breakdown of numbers.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Aumond.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The $2.954 million that the carry-over requests represents roughly two-thirds, approximately, of what would be a planned expenditure in ‘13-14 of $3.954 million and really represents the entire portion of the Canada Health Infoway contribution for the project for the 2013-14 fiscal year. So far the GNWT, through the Department of Health and Social Services, has spent approximately $4.4 million on the project and the estimated total for the project to conclude in 2015-16 is approximately $10.3 million. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Aumond. Mr. Dolynny.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am just writing these numbers down and doing some math here. So if my math is accurate, we’re still a bit a ways here from completing our journey in the electronic medical records and I’m hearing 2015-16 as the completion of roughly about a $10.3 million investment, at which I believe the GNWT will be on the hook for about $6.2 million and Canada just over $4 million.
So my next question is with us being relatively – I’m going to use the word loosely here – I’m going to say maybe more than halfway through our budget process with EMR, yet we are of significant disadvantage because health-specific privacy legislation is still not active. This is something that was worked on way back in the 16th Legislative Assembly, and is not even on the radar for the 17th Assembly and we’re nearing the completion here very shortly, Madam Chair, of EMR. EMR works, as far as I’m concerned, hand in hand with specific privacy legislation relative to health. Are we in line of completing everything, in the Minister’s opinion, so that we can actually finish the budget and still have all our ducks in a row when it comes to the full implementation of this EMR program? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The project timelines are there even with the carry-overs. The commitment is to get it up and running. The benefits are very clear about the value of electronic medical records.
With regard to the comments about legislation, the questions and queries about legislation and the plan of the department, I would ask the Minister of Health to respond to that particular question. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Health Information Act is currently being drafted and the bill will be introduced in this fall session of the 17th Assembly.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Dolynny.
Just to close my comments with respect to EMR, with this being a supp for EMR, will we be looking at a further budget line in the upcoming infrastructure budget in this fall? Are we going to be seeing the completion here of this full EMR program in the fall sitting of 2013?
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes. The ’14-15 budget will contain appropriate inclusion of this particular project.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess if I can add up all the dots here that we talked about today, is that we should see the completion of EMR from a financial standpoint. We’ve heard from the Minister of Health that we’re going to have the legislative standpoint in place, or at least starting this fall. So, as far as we’re concerned, this is a $10.3 million project where we’ve had supplementation of a little over $4 million from Canada, and that there should be no need for any other supplementary or other budgetary line for EMR after the 2015 budget. Is that my understanding?
The plan as it now exists on a go-forward basis is, yes, that we have carry-overs this year. The plan will have further reference and the intent would be to have it concluded through the next two cycles, so that by ’15-16 the project will be complete.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Department of Health. Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to add my voice to the comments that have already been made by Mr. Bromley and Mr. Dolynny. I, too, have been waiting for some comprehensive renovations at Stanton and we’re still waiting, so I just want to add my voice of discontent to those of my colleagues’.
I have one question with regard to the planning study. As advised, this was a $5 million budget and we are carrying over almost $2.2 million, which suggests that it’s getting there. It’s maybe 60 percent done. But I’d like to know from the Minister when this planning study is expected to be finished. He’s advised us that there’s going to be money in the next capital budget for this particular project, but is it going to be a situation of a planning study not being done until the end of this fiscal year and we’re then carrying over the $20 million because we’re not ready to go to any, you know, to further the project? When is this planning study going to be done?
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The design work is scheduled to be completed this fall, 2013.
If we have design work done this fall, what’s the time frame after that? How soon would we go to an RFP or a tender process, and how soon would we expect a contract would be awarded? When would we be able to start construction?
Another piece that has to be done and we will be working on tied into this class C estimate is the P3 analysis. There is going to be $20 million in the budget upcoming for ’14-15, so the actual schedule, without having seen the class C estimate, I don’t think, is clearly in place, but I’ll ask Mr. Guy if he would want to add any particular detail that he may have.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Guy.
Thank you, Madam Chair. In terms of the planning study work that we have done to date, we have completed the operational plan, the needs analysis, functional program, the technical evaluation, the block planning study. Those are all key components to the completion of the planning study.
The next piece which we have been working on since early January has been developing the schematic design, and that is working towards the class C cost estimate. Once that work is complete, then we will know what the cost of the facility will be and how our funding will need to be cash flowed going forward on that. That will then also feed into both the capital planning process, but as well, as the Minister said, there is a P3 analysis going on as well. That is being done in parallel so that we are not waiting until our schematic work is done. We are doing in parallel to help expedite the process. We are working towards that fall date. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Guy. Ms. Bisaro.
Thanks, Madam Chair, and thanks to Mr. Guy for that explanation. My next question was whether or not the P3 investigation would further hold up the project. I am really glad to hear we are doing two things at once. I imagine many people in the public don’t think the government can do that. I am very glad that we can.
That is all I have, Madam Chair. Thank you.
Thank you. Next I have Mr. Nadli.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I have questions and concerns, but the first is in regard to the proposed Fort Providence health centre. I could probably safely say that the community looks forward to the construction of the new health centre to replace the old building. We are looking forward to seeing it realized. I just wanted to see if there is a commitment from the Department of Public Works or the Department of Health and Social Services to meet with the community at some point, more likely the contractor has to be involved with that, but to ensure that the community residents do have input into a building that more likely will service the community for the next 50 years, and whether that opportunity will be forthcoming very soon.
