Debates of November 2, 2012 (day 28)

Clause 10, Ms. Bisaro.

COMMITTEE MOTION 41-17(3): AMEND CLAUSE 10(3), BILL 5, LEGAL AID ACT - ADDING “CHILD PROTECTION”, CARRIED

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have an amendment. I move that subclause 10(3) of Bill 5 be amended by adding the words “child protection” before the words “family or civil matter” in that portion preceding paragraph (a).

The motion is being distributed. The motion is in order. To the motion. Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would just like to explain why this is being done here. When committee went through the Legal Aid Act we did feel very strongly as a committee that we wanted to make sure that legal aid did cover matters of child protection. So we amended a different clause to add the words “child protection” in another clause elsewhere in the bill. At the time that the bill was being reprinted it was noticed that in this particular clause, Clause 10, there was a reference to family or civil matters but there was not a reference to child protection. So child protection is being added here to make it consistent with the amendment which committee has already done and which is in the act already, and it’s just to make sure that we have child protection anywhere in the bill where we also reference family or civil matters. The committee did agree on this amendment.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. To the motion. Mr. Abernethy.

Thank you, Madam Chair. We agree with this motion as well. We think this is important for improving the bill.

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. To the motion.

Question.

Question is being called.

---Carried

Clause 10 as amended.

---Clauses 10 through 26 inclusive approved.

Return to the preamble and table of contents, Bill 5, Legal Aid Act, as amended.

---Preamble and table of contents approved

Does committee agree that Bill 5 is ready for third reading as amended?

---Bill 5 as amended approved for third reading

I’d like to thank the Minister and his witnesses for their help with this bill today. I’ll ask the Sergeant-at-Arms if he would please… Is it the same people for the next one? I don’t know.

The next item on our agenda is Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Judicature Act. I would like to ask Mr. Abernethy if he would, please, like to introduce the bill.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am pleased to appear before the committee today to review Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Judicature Act. I would like to start by thanking members of the Standing Committee on Social Programs for their careful review of the bill.

The Judicature Act governs the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories.

There are two substantive changes to the act. The first adds a new section providing that trade orders obtained against the NWT under the Agreement on Internal Trade may be filed with the clerk of the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories. Once filed, the order would then be enforceable against the government in the same manner as other orders of the court. The addition of this provision will bring the NWT into line with all other signatories to the Agreement on Internal Trade.

The second substantive amendment expands the authority to make regulations under the act. The current jurisdiction to make regulations is limited to authorizing the reimbursement of expenses of interpreters and witnesses. Although the current regulations allow for fees to be paid to interpreters and witnesses for their services, there is no express authority for those regulations. With the amendments, fees would be authorized for interpreters and witnesses, as well as all others who provide services in the court process.

In addition to the changes I have mentioned, a number of minor housekeeping amendments have also been made.

I would be pleased to answer any questions that the committee members may have regarding Bill 7.

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. I’ll now ask the deputy chair of the Standing Committee on Social Programs, who reviewed this bill, to make opening comments. Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Standing Committee on Social Programs conducted its public review of Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Judicature Act, on August 23 and October 29, 2012. The committee thanks the Minister and his staff for presenting the bill.

The bill provides for the enforcement of orders stemming from the national Agreement on Internal Trade in the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories. The government has been committed to this change since 2009. The bill also allows the Commissioner, on the recommendation of the Justice Minister, to regulate fees and expenses related to court processes.

The committee initiated one amendment to the bill which was adopted during the public hearing with the Minister’s concurrence. This amendment provided for the Minister to consult with the Supreme Court before setting fees to help ensure that all citizens have fair access to justice.

Following the committee’s review, a motion was carried to report Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Judicature Act, to the Assembly as ready for consideration in Committee of the Whole as amended and reprinted.

This concludes the committee’s opening comments on Bill 7. Individual Members may have additional questions or comments as we proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. At this time I would like to ask the Minister if he has witnesses that he would like to bring into the Chamber.

I do, Madam Chair.

Does the committee agree?

Agreed.

I’ll ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses to the table.

Mr. Abernethy, for the record, could you please introduce your witnesses?

Thank you, Madam Chair. On my right is Mark Aitken, the acting assistant deputy minister for the attorney general branch. On my left is Kelly McLaughlin, the acting director of legislation.

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I wish to take just a minute here to clarify in general comments, as indicated in both opening addresses and the one we did from committee, regarding the amendment of the bill which allowed the Minister to consult with the Supreme Court before setting fees or court fees. That reference is to, later on as we’ll note in detail, Section 24 of the act and number 2.

What we see within that amendment is a compromise to the true intention of what many in committee were striving to achieve. This concept was fair and reasonable court fees. Now, the department was adamant that this simple concept of fair and reasonable could not be included within the fabric of the act, as it would have had disastrous consequences for a number of other acts that could be challenged in the courts. So again, why the fuss?

In simple terms, court fees which are unreasonably high may pose a barrier to access of the courts and to justice and, as such, can be deemed unconstitutional. Courts should not be run on a cost recovery basis, and seeking to do so would more than likely dissuade the average person from seeking justice.

The committee recognized that some fees are appropriate, but it was important to have some scrutiny of the fees the government charged and to make sure they do not become real barriers to justice. In essence, the court cannot fulfill its democratic function as an independent and impartial arbiter between government and individual or between individuals if the government limits those who come before the court by means of financial deterrence such as significant, unfair, or unreasonable fees.

The committee could not leave this amendment in the same position; therefore, the oversight of compromise was established with the Supreme Court who deals with average citizens on a daily basis. The committee felt that they were the best able to review the proposed fees and provide advice to government as whether the fees sought to be charged are fair and reasonable, taking into consideration not only the economic needs of government but the circumstances of the average member of the general public.

I would like to thank the committee for allowing me to qualify this amendment in the proposed line that we’ll be discussing later on today.

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. General comments. Does committee agree that we’re ready to proceed with clause-by-clause review of the bill?

Agreed.

We will stand down the title page and preamble. Clause 1.

---Clauses 1 through 24 inclusive approved

Committee, I will return to the title page of this bill. Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Judicature Act, to the bill as a whole.

Agreed.

Agreed. Does committee agree that Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Judicature Act is now ready for third reading?

---Bill 7 approved for third reading

I would like to thank the Minister and his witnesses for their help with Bill 7. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Menicoche.

Madam Chair, I move we report progress.

---Carried

Thank you. I will now rise and report progress.

Report of Committee of the Whole