Question has been called. The motion has been carried.
---Carried
Bill 39 has had second reading.
Mr. Miltenberger.
Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife South, that Bill 40, Appropriation Act (Infrastructure Expenditures), 2015-2016, be read for the second time.
Mr. Speaker, this bill authorizes the Government of the Northwest Territories to make infrastructure expenditures for the 2015-2016 fiscal year. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Motion is in order. To the principle of the bill.
Question.
Question has been called. The motion is carried.
---Carried
Bill 40 has had second reading.
Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Bill 25, An Act to Amend the Education Act; Bill 27, Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment Act, 2014; Bill 29, Human Tissue Donation Act; Bill 30, An Act to Amend the Public Service Act; Bill 32, An Act to Amend the Pharmacy Act; Bill 34, 2015 Polling Day Act; and Committee Report 7-17(5), Report on the Development of the Economic Opportunities and Mineral Development Strategies, with Mrs. Groenewegen in the chair.
Before we move into Committee of the Whole, I would like to welcome Mr. Andrew Cassidy, mayor of Hay River. Welcome to the House.
---Applause
I’d like to call Committee of the Whole to order. There are a number of matters before us on our agenda.. What is the wish of committee? Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We would like to continue with Bill 30 from last week and then Bill 25, Bill 27 and Bill 34, time permitting. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. We will reconvene after a short break.
---SHORT RECESS
I’d like to call Committee of the Whole back to order. With that, we’ll go to the Minister responsible to see if he has any witnesses he’d like to bring into the House.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I do.
Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.
Minister Beaulieu, if you could, please introduce your witnesses to the Chamber.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have with me, to my immediate right, Shirley Desjardins, deputy minister of Human Resources; on my far right, Nicole MacNeil, director of labour relations; and to my left, Ken Chutskoff, legal counsel.
Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Again, I’d like to welcome Ms. Desjardins, Ms. MacNeil and Mr. Chutskoff back to the House. Minister Beaulieu.
Sorry, Mr. Chairman, legislative counsel.
Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Committee, we last left and concluded clause 4. Does committee agree we continue on with clause-by-clause?
Agreed.
Clause 5. Minister Beaulieu.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to move a motion.
Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. We’ll just circulate the motion.
Committee, the motion has been circulated. The motion is in order. We’ll turn it over to the Minister to comment on the motion. Minister Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that Bill 30 be amended by
renumbering clause 5 as clause 5(1); and
adding the following after renumbered clause 5(1):
Subsection 34(8) is amended by striking out “the Minister” and substituting “the deputy minister of the department responsible for administration of this act.”
Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. To the motion.
Question.
Question has been called. Motion is carried.
---Carried
We will continue on with the clause. Clause 5 as amended.
---Clause 5 as amended approved
Thank you, committee. Clause 6.
---Clause 6 approved
Clause 7.
---Clause 7 approved
Bill as a whole.
Agreed.
Does committee agree that Bill 30 is ready for a third reading as amended?
---Bill 30 as a whole approved for third reading
Thank you, committee. Bill 30 as amended is now ready for third reading.
I’d like to thank Minister Beaulieu this afternoon for joining us. Mr. Chutskoff, Ms. Desjardins, Ms. MacNeil, thank you for joining us. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could please escort the witnesses out of the Chamber, thank you.
Thank you, committee. As agreed upon earlier today, we’re going to continue our deliberation this afternoon on Bill 25, An Act to Amend the Education Act. With that, will go to the Minister responsible for the introduction of the bill this afternoon, Minister Lafferty.
I am pleased to introduce Bill 25, An Act to Amend the Education Act.
The purpose of this legislation is to bring education superintendents, other than Yellowknife Education District No. 1 and Yellowknife Catholic Schools, into the public service.
Currently, there is a wide discrepancy in pay and benefits between superintendents. This change will help create equitability in the pay and benefits offered to superintendents.
This change will also make it easier for divisional education councils to hire qualified northern educators, many of whom are already, and wish to remain, within the public service pension and benefits system.
Of the five superintendent positions impacted by this bill, three incumbents are already seconded from within the public service. The bill includes a transitional provision to honour the existing contracts of the two superintendents who are outside the public service. We engaged all boards and superintendents on this proposal, and they are in agreement with this change.
I want to be clear: this bill does not change the reporting relationship between a divisional education council and their superintendent. The divisional education council will also continue to hire, supervise, evaluate and, if necessary, discipline and fire their superintendent. This is set out in the Education Act.
In terms of following my direction, superintendents are already required under the Education Act to follow ministerial directives, and nothing will change in this regard.
Having superintendents within the public service will also help strengthen accountability in the education system. It will create consistency between the employment status of superintendents and their staff and teachers. It will also clarify that superintendents must comply with GNWT acts and policies, such as the Public Service Act and the Human Resources Manual.
Overall, this bill will improve our education system and help attract and retain the best northern educators for the important position of education superintendent.
I would be pleased to answer any questions.
Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Minister Lafferty, we will offer the committee that reviewed the bill to make some opening comments on the bill. Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Standing Committee on Social Programs conducted its public review of Bill 25, An Act to Amend the Education Act, on May 28, 2014. A clause-by-clause review was conducted on October 5, 2014. The committee thanks the Minister and his staff for presenting the bill.
The bill is intended to bring superintendents of the district education councils and the Commission scolaire francophone into the public service. Three school boards would not be affected. The Tlicho Community Service Agency has a unique structure and will not be affected by this legislation. As well, the two Yellowknife superintendents will remain outside the public service.
The bill makes corollary amendments to the Public Service Act to address the employment status of superintendents.
The committee consulted with the chairs of the affected education bodies and no concerns were identified. However, during the public hearing in the clause-by-clause review, Members expressed some concerns about the implications of bringing superintendents into the public service. Specifically, some Members were apprehensive about the potential for the authority of superintendents to be unduly constrained. Members also noted that some superintendent pensions are currently provided through NEBS, the Northern Employee Benefits Services, and asked the Minister to clarify who will cover the costs of converting pensions from NEBS to the GNWT Public Service Plan.
The Minister subsequently advised that if there was a cost to the employer to convert pensions, the department would cover that cost.
Following the committee’s review, a motion was carried to report Bill 25 to the Assembly as ready for consideration in Committee of the Whole.
This concludes the committee’s opening comments on Bill 25, and individual committee members may have additional questions and or comments as we proceed. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, committee chair, Mr. Moses. With that, I’ll ask the Minister if he has witnesses he’d like to bring into the House today. Minister Lafferty.
Yes, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could be kind enough to bring our witnesses into the Chamber.
Mr. Lafferty, if you would be kind enough to introduce your witnesses to the Chamber tonight.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. I have to my left Rita Mueller, assistant deputy minister, Education, Culture and Employment, and Ian Rennie to my right. He’s the legislative counsel within the Department of Justice. Mahsi.
Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Mr. Rennie, Ms. Mueller, welcome this evening. Committee, we’ll open up with general comments to the bill. General comments. Mr. Bouchard.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do have some concerns about some of these changes. Obviously, the superintendent, one of the reasons I’ve had more concerns is he’s in the South Slave. I guess the one main area of concern is how this reporting would go. I know the Minister talked about how the reporting wouldn’t change, but I guess the difficulty comes in the fact that now you have a superintendent that’s a government employee but also reporting to a board at the same time, the DEC. I guess how that individual will be conflicted, obviously, from his boss versus the people that direct him on the initiatives. I would use recent discussions about our Junior Kindergarten as an example. We have the department who are the bosses and will be paying his wages and yet the direction of the DEC was that there was difficulty they were having with implementation of that. I guess my concern will be the reporting.
In difficult times, I think on most issues this wouldn’t be a factor. Most of the day-to-day operations I can understand the superintendent working with the DEC and not even having to deal with the government most of the time on day-to-day operations, but in the critical decision times there are times to criticize the GNWT about some of the implementations of any program or funding budgets. Some of those types of items, I think it’s going to be difficult for that superintendent to tell his bosses – and I say “he” because in the South Slave we have a male superintendent – the people that sign the cheque, that this is the problem that we have, we need to fix this. I think that’s one of the issues we’ve been pushing for Junior Kindergarten, as an example, this was an issue.
So I have difficulties with this as far as superintendents becoming GNWT employees, and I understand some of the rationale behind doing it, but there’s that main issue of the reporting process and when it comes down to some tough decisions, and they may only be five or 10 percent of the time, but at that time it’s going to be critical when you need a superintendent to fight for the DEC. How much can you really fight when he’s giving direction and concerns to his boss? So that is definitely a concern.
The other area of concern that we’ve heard from our DEA was just the fact that our superintendent has a great deal of education and can he keep the same type of individuals that you want. Doctorates, let’s say, for a superintendent. Would you be able to keep that type of individual if they’re a government employee and on a pay grid? My understanding is that as superintendents come in, they’ll be red circled for whatever their wages are if they are above the existing pay grade, but the difficulty comes in the fact that don’t we want the best person that we can possibly get in our system. That would be limited because we have a set wage, we have a set amount of money that we can pay this individual. Sometimes when those people have a doctorate, they may be able to get work other places for bigger money. So, obviously, are we getting the best people in our education? Yes, we can find people that are educated and do a job, but are we getting the best people that we want to get in this system?
So those are the two main areas that I have concern with on the changes to this act. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. We’ll allow the Minister to respond to those concerns. Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. This obviously has been brought to our attention through the committee’s work, and the committee has heard a lot from South Slave members, as well, the DECs and DEAs. The reporting mechanism has been talked about with the South Slave as well. I met with them about a month ago. This particular topic was brought to my attention, so we talked about how it’s going to be structured. The reporting mechanism will stay the same as it is now, it will just be part of the public service staff if you will.
So we did talk in length about the reporting mechanism and the current superintendent did state and reiterated that he would like to be part of the GNWT public service immediately if that’s the case, but we still have to work with his current contract because we’re honouring the contract that they have. But he reiterated on a couple of occasions that he would obviously like to fall under the public service. So we did talk to them and they were satisfied with that reporting mechanism and I’m there to work with them. At the end of the day, the decision lies with the district education council.
The superintendent, obviously we want to have the best-qualified people for those positions because it is a high level position. What’s happening now is there’s a huge discrepancy between the superintendents. What we want is them to be a in a position with our current GNWT senior staff pay grid, so that will be aligned with other senior staff at a comparable level.
Those are the discussions that we’ve been having. It was satisfactory when we presented that case, so those are two areas that we’ll continue to push. We had a really good meeting in the South Slave when we met with them on these two subjects. Mahsi.
