Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following two documents, entitled Interim Public Accounts of the Government of the Northwest Territories for the year ended March 31, 2012, and 2011-2012 58th Annual Report of the Northwest Territories Liquor Commission and Liquor Licensing Board. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Abernethy.
Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document, entitled Northwest Territories Coroner’s Service 2010 Annual Report including a 10-year review 2001-2010. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Monday, October 22, 2012, I will move the following motion: Now therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Kam Lake, that the Northwest Territories Electoral Boundaries Commission, 2012, is hereby established;
And further, that the Legislative Assembly recommends to the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories that the Honourable Shannon Smallwood be appointed chairperson, and Mr. Charles Furlong and Mr. Ian McCrea be appointed members of the Northwest Territories Electoral Boundaries Commission, 2012.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Blake. Mr. Bouchard.
Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Monday, October 22, 2012, I will move the following motion: Now therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Monfwi, that the following guidelines be set out for the NWT Electoral Boundaries Commission, 2012:
The commission shall review the existing electoral districts using the most recent and accurate census and other population data available;
In keeping with Canadian constitutional conventions and the notion of effective representation, the commission shall make recommendations to achieve relative parity between electoral districts while balancing community of interest considerations;
For greater certainty, relative parody means that the percentage variation between the number of persons in a riding and the average mean should be within plus or minus 25 percent, except where special circumstances warrant exceptional deviation;
The commission shall recommend how electoral boundaries should be drawn if the Legislative Assembly comprises (a) 18 members, or (b) 19 members, or (c) 21 members;
The commission shall prepare an interim report with proposed electoral district boundaries for review by the public and discussion at public hearings;
The commission shall establish a website or other publicly accessible mechanism(s), in addition to public hearings, to receive submissions on the existing and/or proposed boundaries;
All submissions to the commission shall be considered public documents;
Simultaneous translation of official languages shall be available at public hearings where the use of an official language in a particular community or region is sizable enough to warrant the employ of translation services;
If the commission is not in a position to accomplish its mandate within the existing budget allocated, it may return to the Legislative Assembly for additional funds;
The final report of the commission, complete with recommendations, shall be submitted in English and in French to the Speaker and the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly no later than seven months after the Commission is struck; and
The Chief Electoral Officer shall serve as secretary to the commission.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. Item 18, first reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in Committee of Whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 64-17(3), Northwest Territories Capital Estimates 2013-2014, with Mrs. Groenewegen in the chair.
Okay, I’d like to call Committee of the Whole to order. What’s the wish of the committee? Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Is committee agreed?
Agreed.
Thank you. We will commence with that after a short break.
---SHORT RECESS
I’d like to call Committee of the Whole back to order. The Capital Estimates 2013-2014 is the tabled document before us today in Committee of the Whole. I would like to ask Minister Miltenberger if he would like to bring witnesses into the Chamber.
Yes, Madam Chair.
Agreed?
Agreed.
Thank you. I’ll ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.
Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Madam Chair. At the witness table we have deputy ministers Mike Aumond, Finance; and Mr. Paul Guy, Public Works and Services.
I’m here to present the 2013-14 Capital Estimates of the Government of the Northwest Territories.
The estimates outline appropriations for government and community infrastructure investments of $123 million for the 2013-14 fiscal year. This amount includes $75 million for GNWT capital projects, $12 million for projects funded through the federal government’s Building Canada Plan, $28 million for contributions towards community infrastructure projects, and $8 million to continue the GNWT’s Deferred Maintenance and Capital Asset Retrofit Program.
The estimates do not include appropriations for housing infrastructure proposed by the NWT Housing Corporation in 2013-2014, totalling $14.5 million. The appropriation for these investments will be sought during committee’s review of the draft 2013-2014 Main Estimates in January 2013. The NWT Housing Corporation’s proposed 2013-2014 Capital Plan, however, has been included in the estimates document as an information item.
Including the proposed housing investment, the total planned infrastructure investment in 2013-2014 will be $137.8 million. Although the 2013-2014 Capital Estimates are the second year of reduced capital spending, the estimates still provide a stable source of funding for community governments and permit the completion of many of the projects begun during the 16th Assembly.
As Members are aware, this level of funding will not address the GNWT’s growing infrastructure deficit, which is currently estimated at $3 billion over the next five years. This does not include deficits also accruing in our municipal and housing infrastructure needs.
However, the increase to our borrowing limit and adherence to our fiscal strategy will provide us with an opportunity to start addressing this deficit by planning to increase the GNWT’s share of capital investment from $75 million to $125 million for two years, starting in 2014-2015.
The short-term increase in our capital spending will provide the GNWT the opportunity to make investments to improve our territory’s essential infrastructure base to deliver programs and services and to allow the GNWT to participate in future federal infrastructure programs.
The increase, however, is not sustainable without new revenues from devolution or further expenditure constraints or reductions.
Major highlights of these estimates include:
$29.6 million for facility replacements and renovations, including funding for the upfront planning for the upgrades that will be required at Stanton Territorial Hospital;
$28 million to continue to contribute to the community infrastructure needs;
$23.3 million for highways and other winter roads across the NWT;
$12 million for small capital projects across all departments;
$5 million to continue the GNWT’s Deferred Maintenance Program;
$4.4 million for information technology projects;
$2.1 million for improvements to NWT parks; and
$1.2 million to continue the Capital Asset Retrofit Program for energy efficiency upgrades to existing GNWT buildings.
I am prepared to review the details of the 2013-2014 Capital Estimates.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Would you like to join your witnesses at the witness table? I will now turn to Regular Members to see if anyone has general comments. Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I’m pleased to review the infrastructure capital estimates for next year, but I do want to share a few concerns.
I know that we moved to doing our infrastructure for the next fiscal year early, but I’m still finding that in my region we’re tendering out capital projects in July and August. The reason that we did it almost six months earlier is so that it would avoid those circumstances. When that happens, especially with highway chipsealing or construction, then we end up constructing in the fall season. I don’t think that’s how we should be utilizing all the time that we’ve given ourselves there. I don’t know if the Minister wants to answer why that practice is still happening. I think even with housing, I was just recently in Fort Liard, as well, and they’re starting the base construction of a home. It behooves me to see why we’re still doing that practice. Maybe the Finance Minister can find out more, or track it, or maybe government isn’t aware of it. I think it’s becoming more of a practice again that we’re tendering out stuff later and later in the year and it impacts the construction season if they’re doing it wet, when it’s raining and snowing. That’s one of my concerns there.
The other one is, of course, I’m speaking about Fort Liard, Highway No. 7 has always been quite high on my agenda. I do have to say that because we’ve had an exceptionally dry year, the Liard Highway has been very good this year. I’m sure that the tourism numbers will be up. I haven’t had confirmation of that. That’s something that we always want to see in the long term. Like I said, I’ve always said that Mr. Ted Grant, who owns Simpson Air, has always been a strong advocate of tourism in the Northwest Territories, and he always advises me that he does get calls from Europe about tourists that want to drive on Highway No. 7. They ask him the conditions and he has to be honest with them. In the years when it’s bad, he has to tell them it’s bad and don’t send people up Highway No. 7. I continue to advocate that we still need more resources for Highway No. 7. I will note that certainly there are contributions towards Highway No. 7 that I’m pleased to see in the capital estimates; however, I still make the case that it needs more and more resources as we move along.
As well as the chipsealing. Another goal of mine is to chipseal all the way from Providence junction to Fort Simpson. I’d like to see that work done. Also, the residents of Fort Liard often feel that they’re forgotten in the corner of the Northwest Territories, but the reality is that the road is their life there as well. They actually do a lot of work and travel between Fort Liard and the BC border. I’ve always advocated that that’s got to be chipsealed. It was chipsealed at one point, and unfortunately, it deteriorated within months. With the investments that we’ve had over the past seven years, I think we’ve had a good 20 or 22 kilometres reconstructed. We still need another 200 to be reconstructed. We’ve got a long ways to go there. The good sections are reconstructed. I’d certainly like to urge the department to chipseal that and make life a little bit easier. I think that’s one of our roles as legislators, is to make life a little bit easier for all our residents. We always strive towards that.
Other capital needs in my region, I’ve got many small communities and every time I visit them or I bring Ministers there, they constantly raise the need for schools. In the community like Trout Lake, their original school burned down and they’re actually in the community hall. I’ve always made that case. The department refuses to acknowledge that, but the original school had burned down. Residents of Trout Lake have always said it is a temporary thing and put them in the community hall, but now they’re actually calling that the Charles Tetcho School, but it actually wasn’t designed as a school. So I’ll continue to advocate for them. Many of our large schools have been, you know, we completed one in Inuvik. Great for Inuvik. That’s a huge capital expenditure. In our small communities it won’t be that expensive to build. I think it’s time to turn our attention to the small communities in that regard.
Also, while we’re on general comments, I just want to touch a bit on devolution. I think that when it comes to capital planning and devolution, is that many of our small communities… Like Fort Simpson is the regional centre and I’ve been telling everybody that my role as MLA, when we’re looking at devolution, is to see if we can get some of those jobs over to the community, but we’re limited by the amount of office space, the amount of – I don’t want to call it staff housing, but housing for staff. I think government really has to turn their attention about how do we develop that infrastructure so that we can benefit from devolution. Because decentralization should be part of devolution, I believe. So we have to focus and see if we can transfer some of those jobs to the regions and to the communities. Just an overall statement. I think that’s what we should be focusing on in the future.
As well, I think in my Member’s statement here today, like in the community of Nahanni Butte, who wants to really pay serious attention about relocating a community like that will be expensive. That’s a long-term plan and I believe we should start that planning now. It’s not about moving the whole community today or tomorrow, but we should address that reality, that the community was built in a flood plain and it just may happen again. It might not be 50 years, it might be next year, because climate change is upon us. We’ve really have to look at that.
With that, I thank you for the opportunity for those opening comments. If I can get some certainty about why we’re still tendering out the capital projects in July/August.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. I believe the Minister is going to keep a note of some of these issues and speak to them at the end of the general comments. Thank you that most of your remarks were general comments. It’s general comments, not general questions. Let’s move on to Ms. Bisaro now, please.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I do have a number of comments I want to make with regard to the budget. They’re in no particular order. At the outset I want to say that I do support the fiscal policy that we are currently following. I do agree with the government that we have to kind of keep things down to a dull roar.
With that said, there is a real concern on the part of myself and many other Members that we are leaving ourselves open to increasing our deferred maintenance to increasing our infrastructure deficit. It’s entirely possible that we will be struggling if we don’t increase our capital budget in the near future. I hear from the Minister that yes, in another year or two years’ time there will be an increase to our capital budget, but I think there are many things that are lacking and I’m going to outline a few of them.
One of the things that I think has been a positive in the last couple of years has been a reduction in the dollar value of the carry-overs that we’ve had from one year to the next. I think that’s a really good move. We did take on a huge infrastructure budget because we were taking advantage of the stimulus funding from the federal government. I think that was a good thing to do but it did leave us, I think, a bit under the gun and I think our staff had a bit of a difficult time in getting all the projects out and enabling us to get contractors to get the work done. I’m glad to see that our carry-over has gone down and I hope that it’s going to go down even more.
I think the ideal would be that we have projects identified in our capital budget earlier, as was mentioned by Mr. Menicoche, so that we can get the projects out and get them done, and I would hope that we’d get down to 5 or 10 percent carry-overs from where we are now. I think that would be optimum.
I note that the Minister talked about $5 million in deferred maintenance. I agree with that. I think that’s absolutely the way to go. We have been spending a great deal of money on deferred maintenance and our buildings, and our infrastructure is such that it’s definitely needed. I fully support that, and if we could, I would increase the amount of money that we spend on deferred maintenance.
There are a couple of projects which are not in the budget which are of concern to me. In the last Assembly there was an indication that we needed, and the department had proven was needed, a facility for girls and women; a new facility for girls and women, for correctional purposes, that was intended to be built in Fort Smith to replace the current women’s facility. That project is nowhere on the timeline of this budget. From what we’ve been told by the Minister and the department, it’s not going to be anywhere on the timeline for another couple of years. That concerns me. The current facility is very badly in need of replacement. Again, our limited capital budget doesn’t allow for us to get that project on the go.
Another area that concerns me, as well, is infrastructure within Education, Culture and Employment. Particularly in Yellowknife, we have two schools that have a need. One for upgrading and renovation, and that’s Sissons. It’s been on the books and then off the books for probably four years now. That is one school that is badly in need of renovation and I don’t see it anywhere on the timeline either. That concerns me. Mildred Hall School is one that still has some work that needs to be done to finish off their renovation project from a number of years ago. Aurora College, the need for a stand-alone campus for Aurora College is a huge issue for me. The Minister has talked about it a bit and the Department of Education has talked about it a bit but it’s nowhere on the radar.
I am particularly concerned that this budget doesn’t have anything in it that references the Inuvik-Tuk highway. This is a project which this government has committed to. As a Caucus we said it was a priority. We’ve put money into it already. It seems to be a project that we are forging ahead on, and yet in year 2013 we have no indication of capital costs for that project.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. We have some time left on the clock. We can come back to you after. For general comments next on my list I have Mr. Blake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Within the plans for 2013 year I was very shocked to see the lack of spending within the Mackenzie Delta riding. Over the last year we’ve noticed a lot of residents moving back to our communities of the Mackenzie Delta. Whether it’s lack of work either in Inuvik or a lot of students coming back from school in the south, we’ve seen a huge increase of students coming back to the communities. With that, we’ve seen a big demand for housing within the regions. I was hoping that we could plan for this coming year to put more infrastructure into the communities.
Also, to do with Public Works, Moose Kerr School in Aklavik was built in 1968. The school there is 44 years old and I do not see any plans within the next couple of years here to have a new one built. The school is really in need of replacement, yet there’s no room on the red flag list.
Also, as a colleague mentioned, the Inuvik-Tuk highway; as many people know, there’s very little work in Inuvik at this time and the residents of Inuvik could really use some work this winter. I’m hoping that this government could put in place a good portion of the highway to be started within this year, if possible.
Also on our highway, as one of my colleagues mentioned earlier, the condition of our highway. There is a lot of work that has been done on the Dempster Highway, Highway No. 8, over the last number of years, and I commend the government for doing the widening project, but the maintenance part of things has kind of fallen apart. There’s actually less maintenance that is being done to our highway system even though our highway has increased. I know a lot of our residents would like to see that section of the highway chipsealed in the near future, which would attract a lot of tourists. We’re seeing a lot of tourists that aren’t coming to our region mainly because of the situation of the Dempster Highway. I’m hoping that we could address that issue over the coming years. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Blake. I’d like to ask Ms. Bisaro, would you like us to return to you for the conclusion of your comments? She said in a bit. Mr. Dolynny.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Welcome to the finance delegation here today in the committee. I do commend the department for a prudent fiscal strategy in terms of tightening the belt for the upcoming year. I do have some concerns in areas such as health. Those are areas in which we’ve got to be a little bit more careful in terms of the term “tightening.”
I think health is one of those areas where you have to make investments ongoing, otherwise you fall behind, I guess, the total plan of healing people. Making the proper investments in the community in terms of all types of infrastructure, I think, are critical for the health and well-being of the Northwest Territories.
That said, I think we’ve also heard from some of the Members here, some of the concerns with population migration and changes in migration patterns for the people of the Northwest Territories. When we get to the area of MACA, and when we do funding formulas, that will be something I know we’ll bring up again, but I just wanted to say from a global perspective, a number of Members are concerned that population changes may have not been factored as effectively as we planned in the 2013 budget. This repopulation exercise would help, I guess, in the re-profiling of I know what the government uses as a needs assessment. I think this has a true reflection of the population. I know the NWTAC has been very supportive of that action as well. I just wanted to put that on the record, Madam Chair.
As the Member for Frame Lake indicated, we’ve seen less carry-over from the federal funding from years past because of a large increase in the year before, and I commend the department for becoming a bit more aggressive on that. I know it’s a lot of work to look at matching federal funds to current funding and then to have enough people to deploy the much needed projects around the Territories, but I do commend them for bringing that number down.
That said, the highways, as mentioned, you know, our colleague from Nahendeh, Highway No. 7 is near and dear to his heart, and I think through attrition it’s near and dear to everybody’s heart here, only because we do feel for the Member and the people of that area. That said, we also have many other highways across the Northwest Territories which are in fairly dire situations or dire needs, and I think the current strategy is really not keeping up with what I think the people of the Northwest Territories are expecting. I’m talking about a safety issue as well as the trickling down effect to tourism as well.
I’m hoping that, as indicated, and we’ve heard from senior management here in the Department of Transportation, of a Highway Strategy. We really need to encourage and foster that environment, because without a strategy it would be very, very difficult to start adding more infrastructure strategy or dollars without that fundamental in place.
As mentioned by some of my other colleagues, the Inuvik-Tuk highway expansion program is one in which I think has been looked at, and again, many of us do support the principle of the highway for many reasons, and I’m one of them, but I’m also very concerned about the funding and how we’re going to afford it. I think the more we talk about it as a government, the more we are able to discuss this with the people of the Northwest Territories, the more we can understand the financial impact of what this will have on everybody. I think it’s a prudent exercise and I know there was probably a good reason for omitting it here in the capital plan, but we know it’s going to come back this year and many Members are just hoping that it would be part of the overall picture.
Lastly, we are very encouraged to see devolution or the components of devolution well underway. Many Members here have great faith in our Premier and his delegation team and we’re very happy to have a number of recent organizations come on board, and I think we see a true value moving forward. The concern I think I have as a Member is with devolution will trigger decentralization, which will go hand in hand, which would include also the planning for tomorrow, and that includes infrastructure for putting these people in communities and infrastructure projects, and I’m not sure if this budget is truly planning for the number of jobs that we’ll be seeing going to the communities in a way in which, I think, would provide that comfort level. I think, you know, I speak not just from Yellowknife’s perspective but I think from all communities, having a very clear plan of action as devolution is on a very good platform and a very good timeline, but 2013 should trigger some of this decentralization to start occurring and I’m hoping that we can get some comments to that.
Madam Chair, I’ll leave it at that. I do have more specifics as we get into the detail. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Next for general comments I have Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The fiscal situation in our budget is we have been going through this, I should say I have been here for a bit and we’ve been going through this and all our needs in our communities are very high. We only have a certain amount of money and we need to look at each capital infrastructure in here. We did have a good run at it when the federal government put the federal stimulus money into our communities.
I want to, through the details, ask the Minister what type of initiatives that could look at a partnership with the communities either in bridge work or some of the capital infrastructure that could be built in our communities and our regions and where the government sees that it makes more sense to work with the communities on a partnership, or have the communities come to some solution on building either a bridge or building, and where they can save money and provide opportunities for the communities.
The Minister has travelled a good portion of the North. The Minister has talked to good people down the Mackenzie Valley, in our communities down the south end of the lake here, to ask about our budget and talk about our priorities, and it has been duly noted that our needs are far greater than what we have to satisfy some of our constituents in our ridings on the infrastructure. For example, we talk about roads and I certainly hope that this government here advances the roads into the Sahtu region. I appreciate the forwarding of this project on the new wellness centre in Norman Wells. There is other dearly needed infrastructure in other communities that we are looking forward to advancing with this budget here.
The smaller wins for us: I spoke about earlier in the House on some of the smaller projects such as Colville Lake’s washrooms at the health centre and in the school. For that community that is a big win. It may seem insignificant on the larger, grander scale of these millions of dollars that go into many of the projects around the North, but for that community it is a big win for them after many years of not having that basic infrastructure.
That is what I sort of look at in the budget. What is some of the basic infrastructure? Some of the communities I do not represent do not have them yet. I look forward to that in the budget. I know there is a fine balance because there are other communities we could say that are far more advanced in projects, such as my community of Colville Lake, or Good Hope, or Deline versus the other centres. That is what we are looking at, a balance.
I want to thank the Minister and the staff because it is a very delicate job what you guys are doing and how do you spread the money out, deficiencies in our aging infrastructure. We have some numbers that we desperately need to look at some of these assets that we have in our communities that are 50, 60 and 70 years old that need some attention. There are also other areas in the North that people in the ridings want to see improved.
I want to first of all look at this budget to see where it improves lives in my region. I also want to see where within government it makes sense to allow the communities to develop their own solutions. There is some bridge work that I think the communities can do at a good value. It doesn’t always have to go to a tendering process or the department has control over it. That is where I look for this government, through this budget, where the communities can be involved. It makes more sense. These dollars are going to be dwindling, unless we get some significant movement in the devolution area of coming to some resolution. There we still have our work cut out for us.
I think that the road leading to Tuktoyaktuk should be completed. It needs to be completed. We started and we need to continue building new infrastructure outside where there is desperate need for infrastructure.
We always need to look at how we bring down the cost of living. If some communities like Deline want to extend their runway, we should be able to talk to them and work with them and see if that is a possibility. We have done that with Fort Good Hope. They have put in a significant amount of money when they extended their runway. We need to look at that from a government’s point of view and see where we can do some cost sharing around the communities for infrastructure so that we can stretch our dollars, so to speak.
These are my comments to the Minister. It is a tough job. We need to come back, also, to the basics of certain infrastructure in our communities. Like I have mentioned again, the community of Colville Lake has taken nine years to put basic washroom facilities in that school. These are the things that make a big difference in our communities, and washrooms in the health centre in Colville Lake. I am hoping that some of the infrastructure that we need to put in our communities doesn’t take quite that long, but I understand from the Minister, in some previous comments, that it sometimes takes longer for some infrastructure to go into some of the communities. I guess for ourselves, with the amount of money that we have and the amount of weeks that we are looking at our regions and our communities, what makes sense and what can we put off so that other communities can catch up on their basic infrastructure. Otherwise, we will have have-not regions and have-regions in the Northwest Territories.
I just want to say these few things to the Minister. I look forward to going through detail. I want to thank the Minister for what he put before us and have a lively debate on some of the issues when we go through the infrastructure. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Next on my list I have Mr. Nadli.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to thank the Minister and the staff for being here in terms of giving us some overview of what the plans are for 2013-14.
I am somewhat optimistic and looking forward to the health centre that will be constructed in Fort Providence. As it may be known, the health centre that is presently there is common to those communities in the North. It is an aging infrastructure that perhaps is beyond its years. The community is looking forward to the construction stage of the health centre. Also, at the same time, I think there is a degree of anticipation in terms of community involvement in terms of the design of the structure and also perhaps just the construction stage as well. With great anticipation, the community looks forward to this project to take shape and form at some point.
While that is a positive new beginning of sorts, there are still some needs in the riding that I represent. For example, in Enterprise they have made a strong case of trying to be independent in terms of having their own water supply and ensuring that they provide that service to their citizens. So I encourage this government to be open, to be receptive, and to work with the leadership there to ensure that at some point that that responsibility in their independence is forged and that there’s a working relationship that’s established with the community of Enterprise.
Similarly for Kakisa as well. They’ve indicated, again, their aspirations to be independent of trucked water service that’s delivered from Hay River. They have again made a strong case in terms of some cost advantages of ensuring that they have their own capacity to have their own water treatment plant in their home community to deliver water services to the citizens of Kakisa.
We’re seeing at this point, within a month or so, the dawning of a reality perhaps we didn’t quite expect, but, I mean, that’s the biggest infrastructure that we’ve ever seen in this part of the North. It’s a symbol of what we can accomplish here in the Northwest Territories, and that’s the bridge. It’s going to be completed. The community, of course, has been part of that whole initiative. We look forward to its completion and its opening, but at the same time, there are initiatives that I feel the community would like to at least be involved with. One of them is I know the marketing of the Deh Cho Bridge would be something that could be maximized in terms of drawing in tourists. It could be perhaps compared to the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. Not perhaps in that colour, but the point is that the community would likely continue to be involved in terms of operation and maintenance once the bridge is operational and we see 24-hour traffic going through the community.
Those are three major points that I wanted to highlight, but also at the same time there are still some existing opportunities, I think. For one, I think this government has made great strides in terms of the biomass initiative. I understand that there are some discussions with the community in terms of forest management agreements. There could more likely be sustainable projects that will create not only employment but business opportunities for the district or the region that I serve, especially the communities. So we look forward to that.
Then again, there’s also the potential to maximize on tourism. I think there are some initiatives in the works. We look forward to it, especially at the community level so that it complements the strength of communities, and that’s basically people that have the skills to hunt and fish and trap and know the land that would like to bring tours out into the bush and teach them this in terms of how we live up here in the Northwest Territories.
In the community that I come from, Fort Providence, there have been some issues in regard to the swimming pool that was constructed several years back. It’s unfortunate that it sat this year without being open and we had our kids swimming at the dock. Hopefully at some point there will be a solution arrived at so that the swimming pool becomes operational.
Again, there’s the recent expression of a desire to perhaps look at an emergency runway, because with the dawning of the bridge, with it being in operation, in Kakisa the community has expressed a desire to see if there are measures that could be taken to look at establishing an emergency runway in the community. Not only for the community of Enterprise, but at least on the south side of the bridge where you have at least a contingency to measure if you need to medevac someone, perhaps, if there is an accident and there’s a community response. You need to have a critical link to Yellowknife and one of the ways is by airplane. So the community has proposed to see if there’s a way that that effort can be realized.
Of course, the other matter that I raise at this time is just with the cellular service. I’ve brought that up on several occasions, and again, with the bridge and the 24-hour traffic, it is going to become a necessity. It could be a vital link in terms of having real-time communications to major centres, especially first aid services that could be very critical if perhaps we experience a major traffic accident on the highway and it’s a must at this point. I think if Fort Providence and the area would see an establishment of cellular services, it will bring us one step closer to the concept of ensuring that we have all the major points in the Northwest Territories covered and that we look at at least laying the foundation for a 911 call centre. That could be very possible.
The other point that I wanted to touch on is there are still issues with housing within the constituency in terms of how it is that some empty homes could still exist in the communities, and how it is that there’s a basic need and some houses sit empty in communities. Of course, people become envious when they see a house that’s just sitting there unoccupied.
There’s a lot of discussion in terms of devolution. I’d like to see perhaps more discussion in terms of decentralization. There’s a real need to ensure that the communities survive and we look at perhaps opportunities and positions being transferred to the communities so we at least spread and share the wealth of all this massive institution that we establish.
So those are just some of the key points that I wanted to highlight in terms of what it is that we’re discussing at this time. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Next I have Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My first question, really, if you don’t mind, Madam Chair, I’ll throw that out for the Minister’s wrap-up comments, but I’ve heard a couple of comments about carry-over and we haven’t actually read anything about carry-over. So if I could get clarification on what the carry-over was last year. I’m just looking at the numbers provided today and I see that our main estimates were $124 million last year, actuals or revised are almost double that: $240 million. I’m wondering if much of that – obviously Housing Corp might have 10 or 15 million dollars in there – but it seems like there would be $100 million in carry-over. So I’m not sure what progress has been made on that. So I’d appreciate some clarification on that.
I recognize the Minister has worked hard here to stick to our fiscal strategy, and it’s a matter of competing priorities, and much discussion and debate and weighing of value and so on. Some of my concern over the infrastructure we will be working on is that it’s not part of the budget here today; it’s being left out to the later supps. I’m thinking of, for example, the Inuvik-Tuk highway and the energy infrastructure initiatives. That’s something we seem to be falling into the habit of and I don’t think it’s a good practice. So I just want to make that point.
Another concern is that we are having a lot of infrastructure deficit concerns. I think it’s peaking or profiling the highest point with the Department of Transportation. I think maybe we’re holding the line a bit generally, but Transportation certainly is going in the wrong direction, and the committee, I know, has tried to profile this with Cabinet and we will continue to try. It seems to be a challenge to penetrate that. The barrier is there for communication.
Persistent long-term needs that still are not in the budget. There are a number of these. Certainly for me, the Detah road remains absent. Again, I had a constituency meeting the other night and residents are still flabbergasted that there is not a plan in place to complete that project. It’s been done with tail ends of other projects and so on. Not a real respectful approach there. That’s still missing.
Stanton, again, I think we’re still behind on that. We are moving and I think it’s well recognized the needs there, but I believe we have really fallen down on that one. Not just this Assembly. I see a major deficit there.
Certainly educational facilities in Yellowknife, Mildred Hall, Sissons, the need for an Aurora Yellowknife Campus. Of course, outside of Yellowknife, the women’s correctional facility, which has been mentioned. Sort of glaring gaps there that have been known for a considerable amount of time still not being addressed.
I am happy to see the energy efficiency upgrades that are being proposed and enabled by the Capital Asset Retrofit Fund. I think that will continue to build and is proving a good value. My compliments to Cabinet for following up on that.
Lastly, I wanted to mention that I see real opportunities for how we design and schedule infrastructure projects so they stimulate local contracts and high labour and local labour and local contract participation from the communities in which they occur. I do see major opportunities. We’ve talked about that at committee and perhaps even as a large group in Caucus. I don’t think we’re doing a good job yet at following up on those opportunities. It does take some work. It means we need to break down projects. We need to design projects with that in mind so that they are appropriately scaled and so on, to the sorts of resources that the community that they’re being built in have. It may be a little bit challenging to do, but I think it’s time for some really comprehensive thinking. The benefits from such an approach would be huge in many, many, many ways that address many of our broad government goals. I continue to push that and look forward to the Minister’s comments.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. General comments. Mr. Bouchard.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Like my colleagues, I am fairly supportive of the projects that are in the capital budget. It’s probably one of our lighter budgets, but I do have some concerns in the area of timelines, in the areas of highways and buildings being constructed and the fact that the government has decided to look at these in the fall time in order to be able to put them into operation in the summertime. Somewhere down the road, no pun intended, these are getting farther and farther down the line so we’re beginning projects in July and August and getting into the rainy seasons in the August-September time. I do have some concerns with timelines.
I think another thing that some people have mentioned that is not in the budget is the Tuk to Inuvik highway. I think we need to keep moving this project forward and at least assessing, getting the assessment completed and see what the next level of funding requirement is, and at some point deciding how far in we are. It is something that is an integral part of economic development in that region, so we need to continue to move forward on it.
The capital budget also discusses the infrastructure money or the deferred maintenance money. It’s good to see that the numbers are going down but I don’t know if the department really has any kind of plan to get rid of deferred maintenance or is this just an anomaly year where it’s reduced and other years we’re going to increase. My concern with deferred maintenance was brought up last year when I first became an MLA. If it’s deferred maintenance and we just continue to be behind on it, then you might as well just rename it as regular maintenance because now we’re just way behind. Deferred means, in my opinion, that we’re actually going to crawl out of this hole that we’re in, and I don’t know if the government really has a plan to do that.
The other area in the capital budget process is the consultation with the communities, the public consultation. I understand some of these two have links together where there’s capital, where there’s O and M, but I think it is interesting to go to the communities and hear their voices, but I think time-wise it should also include the MLAs. I happened to have the opportunity to go into my community, but most MLAs didn’t.
I think that’s all my comments for right now. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much, Mr. Bouchard. Next I have Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank the staff for coming in and listening to all the concerns that Members have today. I do understand that under the certain fiscal restraints, you do the best job that you can throughout the Northwest Territories. Looking at our list of work that needs to be done in the regions and small communities. Even here in Yellowknife with a lot of issues that are facing.
I guess I just want to begin with, up in Inuvik we have a pretty bad situation that we’re facing in terms of infrastructure, kind of going along the same lines as possibly a disaster like what happened in Nahanni Butte and all the infrastructure that had occurred over the summer with the devastating floods that happened there. Up in Inuvik we have a gas situation in which we were told that the community has less than a year left on natural gas. As some results that came out in the news, Inuvik Gas started running on some synthetic gas, some incidents happened, and as a result for the last two weeks to a month, I’m not sure, they’ve been doing tests around the community, meaning that the community had to go back on natural gas and use up some of its resources in that amount of time, and then when it was safe, certain units, certain areas of the community went back on synthetic gas. The main concern is that in a time when they could have been using synthetic gas they’re using some of our resources from our inventory that’s already been there. We were told before, that was longer. We were told two years, a year and a half. Now we’re down to a year. Now this year we’re not even sure what can happen. In terms of the synthetic gas being used in the community on all the units, which 85 percent of our residents are on natural gas as well as a bunch of business owners, depending on the load demands and if we have any outages in the community, anything like that that might use up some more of our fuel, and in terms of when it does get a lot colder, the synthetic gas, the effectiveness and efficiency of that fuel being able to work efficiently in the homes or in the community without having a heat trace on the houses or insulating the pipes, that can result in a lot of damaged infrastructure in the community. Whether I know a lot of our government buildings are going on synthetic gas to continue the natural gas inventory for the community, but should that happen during this winter when our natural gas, if it should happen to run out and if the synthetic gas is not working efficiently, there’s going to be a lot of buildings that can result in long-term damage. That’s just the scenario that I want to put out there and something that as I listen to concerns from the Members here in the House, that’s something that we need to take into sight as we move forward and possibly look at the funding that’s going into infrastructure.
Another big project that kind of concerned me, and I know concerned some of our contractors back home, was the Inuvik-Tuk highway. I was very glad to hear a lot of support from Members on this side of the House in terms of the Inuvik-Tuk highway being a priority for this 17th Legislative Assembly and moving forward that should we make a decision when our reports come in that we can start building as soon as possible so that we can get work in Inuvik, we don’t lose months on the building season, and that project, should the Assembly go ahead and approve it, that we can get started right away. I know that’s a concern for Members of our region and my community as well.
Some highlights: I’m really glad to see the funding in terms of deferred maintenance. I know it’s a big list there but we’re putting a dent in it with this money that’s getting spent in there and looking at some of our infrastructure that really needs the help.
Along those lines we do have some Aurora College units in Inuvik that needed some upgrades and they’re very needed when it comes to families from out of Inuvik coming into the community to attend Aurora College. To put them into a home that’s not very up to code is a concern. We want to have healthy families so they can be educated and become part of society.
Another concern was with devolution. It’s been a discussion that I’ve had ongoing with various members of a bunch of different communities, really, and making sure that this government does have proper infrastructure, whether it’s government building space, housing, so that when we do decentralize a lot of these departments or jobs to the communities and regions, that we have infrastructure in place so that we can start doing the jobs. There’s no excuse to have more jobs here in Yellowknife when today you’ve heard around the table that we need the infrastructure in the communities so that when we do start decentralization, moving jobs and departments into the communities, that it wasn’t overlooked and we discussed it ahead of time. We should definitely be putting a plan in place so that when those jobs do come, that our communities do benefit.
All the other concerns were a lot of concerns that were brought and raised by other Members, but I just wanted to raise and reiterate some of those.
Thank you very much, Mr. Moses. I’d like to now go back for our conclusion of general comments to Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for your indulgence. I’ll try and see if I can finish this. Just a couple more things that I wanted to mention.
It’s been mentioned already, but I think I also need to mention it from my perspective as a resident of Yellowknife, and that’s the first section of Highway No. 3 from Yellowknife to Behchoko. It’s a concern by many residents. The fact that we have to keep working on that highway is a bit of downer, but it needs to be done. I’m glad to see that it’s in the budget, but I am concerned whether or not there’s enough money in the budget to actually finish that project.
Stanton’s been mentioned, as well, and I note from the Minister’s comments that we are doing planning for upgrades required at Stanton Territorial Hospital. That concerns me. I would hope that we are doing planning for a new facility. I will have some questions when we come to that section of the budget, because I’m not sure whether we’re throwing good money after bad if we’re spending money on upgrades at this point.
Lastly, I wanted to just make a comment on the infrastructure contribution under the Department of Education, Culture and Employment which apparently is being made to a non-government organization. I will have some questions to the Minister when we come to that. It seems to be out of character of what we do as a government and I am a little concerned about the process that was used to get that project into the budget. It’s a valid project, but I am concerned that we’re setting a precedent and I will have some questions when we come to that section. That’s all I have.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Any further general comments? If not, I’ll go to Mr. Miltenberger now, if he would like to respond.
Thank you, Madam Chair. What I will do is speak to the broad issues. There were a considerable number of very specific program areas that will be able to be addressed in detail with the Ministers coming to the table with their deputies on health, education, housing, environment, whatever the issue may be, but I will touch on as many of the big items as I can.
In regard to late tendering, once again, Madam Chair, we’re interested in the specifics, but overall, if when you ask the departments and you ask the government, we’ll tell you that we think this has been a distinct improvement, that we have, I think, a fairly high success rate in terms of getting projects out the door a lot sooner than we did with the old process where we were always a year behind and never passed our budget until springtime and sometimes later. We are interested in improving wherever we can, and there are clearly going to be circumstances where we didn’t hit the timelines that we wanted to, so be it highways or housing or whatever the issues are, we would be very interested in having that kind of discussion.
The issue of decentralization and devolution, we are very committed to both those key priorities. We have reviewed with committee and the Members the plan on decentralization. Basically, there are a number of phases. The first phase, as we’ve shown and laid out for you in this current business plan coming before the House here this winter, is to look at opportunities that now exist. Basically the low-hanging fruit, as it were, of some possible moves to those communities that are in a position to readily accept new positions and have the infrastructure to do that. That part of the ongoing work tied to devolution is going to come up with the organizational design and then work collectively with the second and third phases of moving those positions out that are deemed to be appropriate, hopefully, and functioning units so that they can operate effectively outside of Yellowknife.
Tied to that, on a peripheral note, Madam Chair, of course, is the benefit of having the fibre optic line up and down the valley is that regardless of where we go in the North, then every community, especially larger centres as regional centres will have the same type of infrastructure and IT capacity and capability that Yellowknife has or that some of the southern communities have, which will make it that much easier to, in fact, be able to move positions and programs.
The carry-overs I will ask Mr. Aumond just to touch on briefly to give you some of the numbers that we have with us here today in terms of percentages going back over the years. Madam Chair, if I could ask for your indulgence.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Aumond.
Thank you, Madam Chair. For information purposes, the carry-over amount that was approved by the Assembly for ’11-12 was $92.455 million, which is the lowest amount of carry-over on an aggregate basis in the last five years. Since 2007-08, we’ve made considerable improvement percentage wise. In 2007-08, we carried over 42.86 percent of the budget. In 2010-11, we knocked that down to 26.6 percent on a $454 million budget where we spent $332 million. In 2011-12, as I said, we carried over $92.455 million or 35 percent of the budget, and really, that was a result, for the most part, as an anomaly under the Department of Transportation, who generally would carry over a lot less than they normally did, but that contributed to the carry-overs we have. But as I said, Madam Chair, it’s the lowest number we’ve had in the last five years. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Madam Chair. In regard to the concern about deferred maintenance, what has happened over the years, at least that I’ve been in this Legislature and yourself, Madam Chair, is whenever there were fiscal pressures and reductions in the past, capital was cut, often because it was the least painful. It didn’t require layoffs and you could hit some of the targets and protect programs and services.
In addition, just a general financial condition that we operate in, for example, since 2008 with the recession, money has been a lot tighter. So will we ever get completely out of deferred maintenance? I would suggest it’s going to be a multi-year process to do that. It’s a large number and we will continue to work at it. In addition, to look at the other new infrastructure that is there. But it’s a commitment that we cannot give up on. Otherwise, deferred maintenance then becomes critical crisis intervention if it’s deferred too long. We need to approach all these different areas on an ongoing basis.
To speak to that issue, we are going to invest the money we can and we do our reviews and we prioritize and we try to keep all these processes going forward, and it will be enhanced once we start adding some money in ’14-15 going forward.
The Tuk-Inuvik highway, if I could just lay out the chronology and process as we know it and as we’ve agreed to. There is a current request coming to this House for the final $2 million to conclude the environmental engineering detailed work that we need to be able to pull together a package by this winter that we can put on the table to the federal government that will lay out the results of all the work in terms of the feasibility, the firmer estimate, the timelines, and to have the discussions with the federal government about the money that they do have and is there requirement for further federal money. The Premier has already raised the issue, as he’s indicated, with the Prime Minister, and the Prime Minister is aware of the concern and indicated that he is waiting, as well, for that information and that we are engaged with him on the number.
The money we have booked is for all this preparatory work, this front-end work, so that we can have enough information to come back to this House, as we committed to last winter, that when we have that work then we will come back to the House and when we know what the number is, the amount of money, what our actual commitment is to the Tuk-Inuvik highway, then we have a project that we can put on the table with cost-shared dollars and make a final determination. That there would be no deal signed, there would be no commitments made except by going through that process to fully involve this Legislature. We have not reached that point yet. There is no approved project, and while we have put money aside in our fiscal framework, there is no formal approved Tuk-Inuvik project except for all the preliminary technical work, engineering work, environmental work that has to be done to determine the road design, route, costs, availability of granular material and those types of things.
The Members are aware that we’ve booked this money and once we have that decision in this House, then it will absolutely appear as a formally approved project with a dollar figure attached to it. That will be the decision of this Legislature to do that.
Madam Chair, as I quickly go through my list, there was one concern raised about population changes, and we know that there are migration patterns, there is a lot of migration from smaller communities to the larger centres and into Yellowknife. While we do not do all our budgeting on a per capita basis, we do try to track and recognize those pressures. Magnet communities, for example, as has been raised by some of the Members, in particular, the largest one being Yellowknife. We are clearly factoring that criteria in as well.
The Member for Sahtu talked about partnerships. In his statement today he indicated, for example, of Colville Lake, the community wanted to get the government’s foot off their neck. As similar sentiment, I think, that every level of government has with the senior levels of government that they may have above them as we, for example, negotiate our way to devolution to take over decision-making. Are we interested in partnerships and what examples are there? Yes, we are interested in partnerships. I think what’s being proposed where there’s cost-shared dollars. The Tuk-Inuvik highway is an example. The fibre optic line that we are going to be building down the valley is going to be a classic example of a northern, hopefully, northern financed, owned and operated major piece of infrastructure that will involve all the Aboriginal governments and the territorial government in giving benefit to every man, woman and child almost without exception up and down the valley.
Another one, we talked about warehousing and partnering up in the community with Housing and Public Works and Services. I have had discussions with Deline, for example, interested in looking at all their infrastructure as well. In a smaller community it makes very good sense to have those discussions. Meet with band councils, community governments to see how we can put our scarce, small amounts of resources together and share 25, 10 cent, 50 cent dollars as opposed to doing it all ourselves. We believe that there are plenty of opportunities. In addition, the $28 million that we flow to communities, the new Ndilo that is going to be under review, will all provide an opportunity to enhance that type of relationship.
I am just quickly going through my list, if you will bear with me. There are many individual program concerns. The Minister of HR will be coming here right behind us, as well, followed by the Minister of MACA to have those discussions.
Mr. Bromley indicated a broad issue of the design and scheduling of projects for maximum community benefit. I agree. As we look at devolution, tight monies, self-government, the things we just talked about with Member Yakeleya, I think there is an opportunity for that type of policy discussion. We have been working for years; 17, going on 18 years I have been here, we have been trying to fine-tune and improve the capital process the whole time. It has been based on those types of discussions.
The other point I would like to make is in terms of the pressures, the red flag projects. While they are not all for 2014-15, as we go forward and start the planning, as soon as we conclude this process and the budget process for the main estimates, the work on the capital for 2014-15 is already underway, predicated on the assumption of the additional funds and the red flag projects which are those projects that have gone through the rigorous scrutiny and are determined to be next in line will be there for consideration, including the projects like the women’s correctional centre. Stanton is basically a megaproject. They are all geared towards both the upgrades and renovations to end up at the end of the day of that cycle to have a fully refurbished acute care facility in the Northwest Territories. It has been in the works for many years, as Mr. Bromley has pointed out. There is going to be a considerable amount of dollars attached to that. We have, once again, money booked in anticipation of that to get this project well started. I believe we have an opportunity for that type of policy discussion.
The gas situation in Inuvik is a unique, critical issue that has drawn together the private sector, the community and the government. We have invested, and are going to continue to invest, considerable time and resources collectively to make sure we manage our way through this. There are the immediate pressures of the upcoming winter. There are the longer term pressures of a more guaranteed energy source, be it liquid natural gas, that gives the opportunity to tie into the potential of six or so megawatts of wind power as Diavik did. We can use it to offset some of our costs. That work has yet to be done.
In regard to a concern raised by the Member for Hay River North, the consultation with communities, we agree that next year we are going to make sure we do our timing in such a way that a number of things are improved on; three to be exact. There are some concerns about the information that the community members have raised that they would like more of. We will work out very clearly in advance with the MLAs to make sure that we do this in a way that MLAs are available to accompany us and to be part of the process. We are going to work earlier with the association, the communities, to make sure we get representatives from all the small communities to come into the regional centres so they are there to take advantage of that opportunity to discuss with us about the budget consultation.
That, I believe, covers broadly some of the government-wide issues. As I indicated, the Ministers and the deputies will be here to discuss in as much detail as committee likes, or requests the specific program areas. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Does the committee agree to move on to detail?
Agreed.
