Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. I welcome back Ms. DeLancey and Mr. Elkin into the House. Question we have on the floor here, which I will allow maybe Mr. Bromley just a quick recap regarding the Stanton Hospital funding. I will turn it over to Mr. Bromley to repeat the last question briefly, please. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I ask apology for jumping the gun there. We are in our sixth year of planning that I am aware of for this facility, the Stanton Territorial Hospital. It is a keystone part of our NWT’s health care system. We have known for a long time that there are major renovations needed to bring this up to par. Our delivery is suffering without that renovation. What is the status of our planning? What planning have we completed? What is this planning about for 2013-14? Are there yet more planning years to come before we start putting boots on the ground with regard to getting these renovations done? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Beaulieu.
Mr. Chair, perhaps the best way to respond to this is to provide the House with the next steps on the planning. I would like to ask the assistant deputy minister, Mr. Elkin, to do that.
Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Mr. Elkin.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To date we have completed the technical evaluation, working with DPW, on the facility and the operational clinical program. The money in 2013-14 is to complete the schematic design. We are currently in what is called block planning. Over the next eight months, we will be completing a Class C schematic design. We will have a full planning study completed next spring to take forward for consideration in next fall’s capital plan.
Thank you, Mr. Elkin. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So we completed the technical and operational. We are now in block planning. I am not familiar with that term, but I am assuming it has something to do with the layout of where particular aspects of medical care are delivered that are related to each other and so on in the hospital. Was it a Class B design? I missed the letter on the class of design where we are at. I understand we are looking for a Class B estimate. Maybe they are different before we go ahead.
The last part that I am a little bit unsure of is the intent for the following year to actually start renovations. Is that what I heard? That would be 2014-15, I believe. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Beaulieu.
Mr. Chair, we will proceed after a Class C estimate. We would go through the capital planning process back to the House. Block planning is where we would look at occupancy planning. It includes activity such as furniture and equipment details, word process development, program engagement for schematic planning and business planning. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. I believe there was a third part of that question regarding next year’s plans. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will just have the deputy minister provide detail on next year’s planning.
Ms. DeLancey.
Mr. Chair, as the Minister indicated, the block planning will be completed in the spring of 2013. That will result in a Class C estimate, which will give us the information that we need to seek funding through the capital planning process. We would then be in a position to come back in the capital plan for 2014-15 with funding to begin the project. When funding is approved, then the renovation project should be able to begin.
Thank you, Ms. DeLancey. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It sounds like, obviously, it is a very modest amount of work that we are planning for 2013-14 here, a modest budget compared to the need we have. I just want to try and nail down whether or not we are actually going to be starting renovations in 2014-15. The Class C design typically is a start towards seeking funding, but a Class D estimate is needed to achieve funding. How long does the Minister think we will need to convert this Class C design estimate – achievable, I believe, in the spring of 2013 – into actual renovations? If I can just leave it at that and get a response. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. During ’13-14, we will complete the planning to a Class C estimate. The money that’s in the capital plan here for ’13-14 should take us to the stage where we’re in here requesting money. The first bit of capital work to start on ’14-15. That’s the plan. That’s where we’re headed to.
That’s good. I think I’m finally seeing some light here. Does the Minister have any idea what the first bit of capital construction, what size of project we’re talking about here for ’14-15?
We don’t know the overall size of the capital project but part of the planning was a process development of the plan. We’re anticipating that the capital planning will be done over a fairly extended period of time.
As I indicated in the last couple of days, we’re not anticipating that all of the work will happen over a very short period, because the Stanton Hospital will have to remain operational throughout the construction stage. We are expecting this to be a longer period and as the areas get completed, we will move to another area and utilize the hospital as it renews. With that, I would hate to guess what we would be doing until all the planning has occurred, but I would suspect that it would be over a longer period of time rather than a shorter period.
I don’t want to take up too much time with this, but it sounds like a briefing would be useful. I’m not a member of Social Programs, or I’m an alternate member, but I wonder if the Minister would be prepared to do a briefing of where we’re at with Stanton so we could spend a little time on it. Thank you.
The department has no problem providing a briefing on the plan for Stanton.
Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Final supplementary, Mr. Bromley.
That’s it. I appreciate the Minister’s offer. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Moving on with questioning, I have the Member for Hay River North, Mr. Bouchard.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I had a question for the Minister about the upgrade being done in Inuvik, the patient…(inaudible)… management system in Inuvik. Can the Minister maybe just elaborate on that system that’s being upgraded?
Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Minister Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll have the assistant deputy minister provide a detailed response on that.
Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Mr. Elkin.
Thank you. The patient elopement system in the long-term care unit in Inuvik is sometimes referred by a trade name, WanderGuard, which protects patients with Alzheimer’s who may wander outside the facility. It has a warning system that prevents them from leaving the units.
Thank you, Mr. Elkin. Mr. Bouchard.
Alright. My next question is about the long-term facility in Norman Wells. I’m just wondering, has there been any construction started on this facility.
Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Minister Beaulieu.
As per the schedule, the construction is scheduled to start in 2013.
My other question would be about the facility in Hay River, the health centre in Hay River. How long has that been on the budget of the Government of the Northwest Territories in the planning, and how long has it been on the budget as far as the planning of that facility?
We don’t have the history of when the planning originally started. We have the amount of money that was spent prior to this upcoming capital year that we are discussing. That is the detail we have. The building is scheduled to be completed in ’15-16.
The Minister obviously knows my concerns about the 10 long-term beds being removed from the current facility and not being replaced in the new facility, and I understand the department’s justification for that. My question is: Were the beds originally in the facility plans? Do they know that?
We moved from a Class C estimate in 2009-10, and there were no extended beds in that estimate as well.
I am looking for information from the department on when these 10 beds were removed from Hay River, basically. That’s why I was wanting to know when the budget was originally put in and if they were originally in the budget.
Currently, we’re going to be short 10 long-term beds in the community of Hay River. The two questions I had earlier talked about long-term beds. I’m just wondering about the department’s plans and how they plan to fix the issue of long-term beds, from what I see is a mistake in the department’s planning when they planned to build this facility. They didn’t plan to do any upgrades to the existing long-term facility when they cut it from the department. I’m just wondering if the Minister could elaborate on future plans for those long-term beds in Hay River.
We are looking at the long-term care. Actually, there’s not a removal of long-term care beds from the Hay River hospital but, rather, the removal of extended care beds. I think what’s happening is there is some mix-up between long-term care and extended care beds. One of the solutions that we discussed was to actually provide more long-term care beds in the existing facility.
As a department, we’re looking at what we are referring to as a continuum of care for seniors. Within that, we’re looking at all of the beds that are available now, including the 10 long-term care beds and making sure that we have accommodations for everyone that’s in the extended care facility in the H.H. Williams Hospital. By the time that hospital is discontinued as a use for a health facility, we will have accommodated the people in extended care that are currently existing in there now.
My question, along those lines, is the accommodation of those individuals. Does that mean moving them to other communities where the services are being provided? Would they be moving to Norman Wells? Would they be moving to Inuvik? Would they be moving to other places where there are obviously long-term care facilities being planned on the budget? What is the plan, I guess, for those long-term care people?
Our philosophy is to try to house the people as close to home as possible, so that the facility that’s being built in Norman Wells really is designed and built to accommodate the Sahtu region and new long-term care expansion in Behchoko is designed to accommodate the Tlicho citizens. So along that philosophy, our intention would be to provide long-term care or extended care as close to home as possible.
So the people from the H.H. Williams that are in extended care, if they are eligible for long-term care as opposed to extended care, they will end up, first priority would be the extended care or the long-term care facility in Hay River. In the very worst case scenario, where there’s nowhere else to house them nearby, they could end up in another facility on an interim basis or a short-term basis, but the intention is to house the seniors as close to their home as possible.
Thank you. I guess the question that I’m trying to get from the Minister is how are we dealing with this shortcoming of 10 long-term beds, acute beds, whatever you want to call it, that are currently in Hay River?
The facility is being built in the community of Hay River right now and the department has been selling, through communications, through press, that this is a facility for 50 years for the community of Hay River, but it doesn’t meet current needs in Hay River. Obviously, the new health care centre will, but they’re removing 10 beds from Hay River and there has never been any plans in the budget to add those, which seems to be a mistake for me, and from my thinking of the department that as soon as they decided to remove them, there should have been a line item on this budget, one of these capital budgets that included an expansion to the current facilities that are in Hay River to add those 10 beds somewhere else. So I’m just wondering where the department is going to come up with that plan.
The Department is willing to come back to the House to try to provide long-term care beds in Hay River to pick up the needs that are going to be created by closing down long-term care beds in H.H. Williams.
Right now we have an expansion to a facility, the closest facility that’s being expanded is Fort Smith. However, it is likely that those beds will all be used up by Fort Smith citizens, but it’s quite possible that we could use that as an overflow, if the beds were not available in Hay River. But the intention would be to make the beds available in Hay River if that was at all possible.
Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bouchard.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, I’m not getting a straight answer from the Minister. My concern is that he talks to me about every other community – Norman Wells, Sahtu, Fort Smith – but my concern is obviously with the concern of this facility that it’s not meeting all of the needs of the community of Hay River right now and I’m looking for a when.
This facility is going to be completed around ‘14-15. I’m wondering when I am going to see a line item on the budget of the territorial government that these 10 long-term care beds are going to be replaced in the community of Hay River, the second largest community in the Northwest Territories.
We’re talking and we keep being referred to Behchoko, Fort Smith, Norman Wells. So all these other communities are talking about their facilities, long-term care facilities; however, we’re not being included in the planning, and they keep telling us that they want to put us as close as they can, but I want to know when from the Minister that we’re going to be seeing a line item in Hay River that replaces those long-term beds that are being removed from the community.
Thank you. What we have available in Hay River, if we’re not talking about any other communities, would be the current long-term care beds at H.H. Williams, and unless we’re able to come back to the Legislative Assembly to get long-term care beds added to the long-term care facility of Woodland Manor, then we would keep the long-term care beds at H.H. Williams open until that addition, I guess, would be added to Woodland. It’s just that if we are not to use any facilities outside of Hay River to house the people that are in long-term care beds, then we would have no option but to keep that facility open until something new was built in Hay River.
Also, I think that a few of the people in extended care or long-term care in the hospital in Hay River are from outside, and at least one individual from Behchoko would go back to Behchoko. I’m not sure about some of the others. I think there’s someone that may be actually from Fort Smith there as well. But I don’t have the details, so it’s difficult to get that type of detail provided to me, because we need to have consent from families. So in order for me to get that kind of detail of who is actually in there… But if you’re just looking at the beds and where the people are currently located – and we can’t talk about anything outside of Hay River – our only option would be to keep that wing of the H.H. Williams open until Woodland had an addition or something was built near there that could accommodate people coming out of long-term care in H.H. Williams.
Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Mr. Bouchard, your time is up. If you want to come back on the list, just let me know. Moving on we have the Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Blake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to comment on what isn’t in the budget. As I’ve mentioned numerous times, there’s a big demand for a long-term care facility in the Mackenzie Delta, yet I don’t see anything in the budget to accommodate that. I just want to stress the importance of having our elders in our communities. We owe a lot to our elders and I think we should be treating them with the respect they deserve.
In the future years I’d like to see a health care facility within the region, within the communities like Aklavik or Fort McPherson, for example. Not everybody is very comfortable moving to Inuvik to a long-term care facility. I just wanted to stress that. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister Beaulieu.
