No, the Department of Transportation takes very seriously the safety of our roads and the Member may be… When we were there, maybe it was the Corridors for Canada III proposal where we do have money for all highways in the Northwest Territories on a go-forward basis. We are anticipating we will be getting some success with that proposal and we’ll have the ability to address concerns from around the territory, including Highway No. 8. Thank you.
My memory recalls very clearly that it was during our business planning process. I’m just surprised the Minister is falling back on his word. I’ll just leave it at that. Thank you.
Last year may have been the remnants of the BCP funding. We don’t have any BCP funding this year; hence, we have no dollars for Highway No. 8. Again, I can’t, you know, reiterate enough how important it is that we are successful with our Corridors for Canada III proposal to the federal government. We need this investment in our infrastructure across the territory. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Mr. Blake, are you concluded?
That’s fine. Thanks.
Thank you, Mr. Blake. Moving on, we’ll go to Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to speak a bit about the structures and chipsealing. Rehabilitation and replacement are of concern. A few of my colleagues have shared the concern about kilometre 187 on Highway No. 1, which is the Providence junction and all the chipseal that is there to about 216. It’s been identified by my colleagues as a priority. There’s some good chipsealing there and it’s deteriorating. In my opinion, I think we should save that. We’ve got a bit of a budget here for next fiscal year and I’m going to propose we make this a priority for 2014. Perhaps firstly I can ask the Minister what is the plan for this section.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. With that, we’ll go to Mr. Neudorf.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Member is referring to the section of Highway No. 1 that would go from Fort Providence junction, kilometre 187, to Checkpoint, kilometre 411. We have had funding in our capital plan for that up until this fiscal year to do reconstruction and, as part of that, do some chipsealing. That was funded under the Building Canada Plan from the federal government. We have chipsealed the first portion from kilometre 187 to 216 or so and we are reconstructing from kilometre 395 to 411. With some money that will be carried over this year, we will get a chipseal on that 16 kilometre stretch from kilometre 395 to kilometre 411.
There is no money in the capital plan to go forward specifically for Highway No. 1 reconstruction. We do have various chipseal, culvert and bridge rehabilitation programs and we use that to maintain, rehabilitate, replace structure and chipseal surfaces as the needs warrant. It’s very, very important for us to have that program and to ensure that it’s properly funded so we can maintain the integrity of our system, so we have a way to replace, rehabilitate infrastructure as it comes to the end of its lifecycle or fails prematurely.
We do have a general plan for where we expect to be doing chipseal and culverts and bridges next year. We always wait until the spring of the year, though, to finalize the plan so we can see what the exact conditions are and then decisions about where to best allocate the funding that we have. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Neudorf. Mr. Menicoche.
I’d like to thank the deputy minister for that explanation of that line item. Just with that, and without getting into further debate, I do have a committee motion here that I would like to move, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Just give a second to circulate the motion. Mr. Menicoche, you can actually read your motion to the House.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I move that this committee strongly recommends that the government place a high priority on the chipsealing and rehabilitation on Highway No. 1 between kilometre 187 and kilometre 216 beginning in the fiscal year 2014-15. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Again, we’ll just take a second to circulate that motion.
Motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think it’s important to state early on here that it’s not asking for any money to be included in the budget, but it only asks that the department place priority on this almost 30 kilometres of chipseal that’s been deteriorating over the years. I didn’t hear any competence in the Minister’s answer that they do plan to do it next year, and I feel that if we leave it past the 2014 season that we’re going to lose almost half of it because it’s all patches, gravel and chipseal. It’s got little painted lines; it’s actually quite tricky to navigate as it is today. To see us lose it all by another year of letting it sit would be a shame. I feel that it would be good expenditures of dollars, because it’s just rehabilitating what’s there in patches and to save the infrastructure that we have there.
For a section of highway that’s listed on the National Transportation Strategy, Highway No. 1, it’s kind of a shame to see it patched up here and there, particularly this fall. On the gravel sections that got exposed, there are holes and it’s almost unsafe. It’s when the weather affects it that badly.
I’m just asking my colleagues to support me in directing the Department of Transportation to make this section part of their priority as we move forward for rehabilitation of chipsealing next fiscal year, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. To the motion. Mr. Nadli.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I, too, speak in favour of the motion. I think it was publicly stated through reports that tourism is on the rise, more so and particularly in the Trout River part. There’s been an increased level of interest in terms of people using that facility. At the same time, we have an increase in tourists travelling up north. I believe that section of highway, if at least chipsealed and properly maintained, would be a celebration for tourists that are travelling from down south coming up north. It’s integral in terms of giving people a reprieve of a smooth ride into particularly this part of the North.
I support this motion and I’m sure that this deserves priority. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Nadli. To the motion.
Question.
Question has been called.
---Carried
Committee, again, we are on section 9-10. Continuing on with questions, I have Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. My questions to Minister Ramsay are on the planning of the infrastructure of the Mackenzie Valley winter road. It is in regard to the amount of traffic that could be there this coming winter. With the amount that we’ve seen or heard of last year, 2,200 trucks coming up from Wrigley to Tulita and then up to Norman Wells and across to the oilfields, I want to state that I was somewhat disappointed when I read the capital infrastructure and didn’t see any type of infrastructure to protect the people and the safety. There’s going to be a lot of trucks on that road and some of them will be carrying some pretty dangerous chemicals, hauling in and hauling out. The Minister has experienced this and I appreciate the Minister for coming with me last year on the winter road from Fort Good Hope to Fort Simpson. He got a firsthand account of the style of road that we have and the continuous improvement that we do need here. I don’t think we’re quite up to the standards that we want to have for safety.
We were in North Dakota and we did see some pictures of their paved roads where there were grooves in their paved roads because of the amount of trucks that were passing through the county there, and that’s no different than the ice paving project that we have on the winter roads where the grooves are pretty well dug into the road there.
I want to see if the Minister would look again to see if there is any type of funding that would help with some of the road infrastructure as to clearing out some spots, lining up some of the areas that we need to work on. I know there is some bridge work going on there. That was given last year. We certainly appreciate that, but we need some more in regard to some of the areas that are quite tricky to maneuver around some of these spots.
I ask the Minister, other than what he told me earlier on today in regard to safety, we need to put some money into those roads. Again, I’m not quite convinced that because the development is happening in the Sahtu, the Minister mentioned the amount of $90 million and we’re not seeing any type of infrastructure. It doesn’t make sense. I mean, what else do we need to do to put dollars into those winter roads? Right now it doesn’t show anything. That’s where the activity is.
What type of business case is the government operating in terms of putting money into our winter roads to show them that they support development? They might not like that in the region. They might say, well, they’re not showing any type of support for us on the Mackenzie Valley winter road. Maybe development is not looked upon as a favourable economic booster in the GNWT. So maybe we’ll take our time and we might have other thoughts to the hydraulic fracking, because they’re certainly not seeing the type of support we need on the winter road. The Minister will know from the amount of phone calls last year that we took, he understood about the conditions of our winter road. I think we need to really look at this again. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A couple of things. First of all, we do firmly believe in the economic future of the Sahtu region, central Mackenzie Valley and the importance of not only having a winter road down the Mackenzie Valley but also advancing, at every turn, an all-weather road down the Mackenzie Valley. You need to look at the Corridors for Canada III proposal to see that we’re serious about investing in a big way into the Sahtu. We’re looking at the Bear River Bridge, the Oscar Creek Bridge, Bosworth Creek Bridge, and I’ve mentioned it before, but my goal is to envision to have a winter road all the way down the valley, and I think we’re getting close. There is money in Corridors for Canada III to enable us to do that, to have a road from Fort Good Hope, a winter road from Fort Good Hope to the Dempster. We need to keep moving in a positive direction. I really do believe that we are moving in that direction.
Just so the Member knows, we haven’t finished negotiating with industry on what support they’re going to approve the government with to help us maintain and enhance the winter road this coming season. Earlier today I spoke to the Member about some of the enhancements we’ve done in terms of looking at more manpower in the region for enforcement and safety.
We’ve done a lot of work on mapping the route and we’re going to try to ensure that there’s an orientation for drivers going up the winter road. They can get a map. We can ensure that they’re well prepared, especially if they’re new drivers. We’re doing everything we can to ensure that it’s going to be a successful winter season on that winter road. We haven’t got to the stage where we know exactly what we’re going to be getting from industry, and hopefully it is equivalent to what we’ve received in the past, but again, those negotiations aren’t concluded.
We also will be looking at the completion of more bridges this coming winter, and I know the Member and I spent some time on the winter road last winter. We saw those areas of concern, and especially with Bob’s and Strawberry, those are going to be completed this coming season, so that’s going to improve the safety of the road. Again, I mentioned earlier the other crossings. We are continuing to move in the right direction, and again, in this year, in a perfect world we’d have money for everything right now, but we’re working with what we’ve got, the best that we can, and we have a plan for the future and it requires a substantial amount of funding. I mean, everybody talks about the infrastructure deficit that we face here, and we really need to get a plan like Corridors for Canada off the ground so we can continue to invest in our infrastructure so that we can grow the economy here in the NWT.
The Minister outlined several areas that certainly bring interest to me. However, I do have a motion I want to read in this section here, so if I could.
Yes. Go ahead, Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that this committee strongly recommends that the government take immediate action to identify appropriate and ongoing levels of funding to support the development and expansion of the Mackenzie Valley winter road system beginning the fiscal year 2014-2015.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. We’re just going to circulate the motion quickly.
Committee, the motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The motion speaks to the support that’s needed in the Mackenzie Valley winter road system. Looking at the infrastructure and hearing the Minister talk, I appreciate his continuous effort to negotiate with the oil and gas industry and seeing what they’re going to do to support their operations. It’s in their best interest to seek the most advantageous road system going up from Wrigley to Norman Wells. Sometimes I wonder if the oil industry wasn’t there, then we wouldn’t have much additional dollars here. I’m wondering if this here is we’re relying on the oil company to help us out in this area here, and sometimes that’s not too good because we’re waiting for them, because in here we really have nothing. If the oil industry walks away and says sorry, we’re not going to negotiate as much as you think and they can give you whatever reason. But we are relying on the oil and gas industry to help us with the infrastructure. It should be ours. This is a public winter road system that we should be able to put money in to help with the road.
I do know that they’re hoping that the federal government would approve the Corridors for Canada III for future funding, and the Bear River, the Oscar and Bosworth are bridges that certainly need attention. The Bear River is close to $7 million. Oscar needs to be rejigged and put back in to its proper place. The Minister and I drove past that bridge last year and it’s a bridge certainly sitting there doing nothing. If you want to look at efficiency of the government’s and taxpayers’ dollars, it’s just sitting there while we have to go around. We want to really look at those types of situations. The Bosworth is just outside the roads of Norman Wells.
Again, I ask for support because there are going to be a lot of trucks on the winter road. Safety is number one. There were a lot of close calls on the winter road last year. The Minister outlined some provisions to have some safety mechanisms in place. It’s good in theory, but in practicality, when you drive that winter road, you drive it, actually, for dear life. The government needs to put some infrastructure and straighten out those roads, straighten out those bends, and look at those hills. It has to be done. It’s no different than any other road in the Northwest Territories. I think my people in the Sahtu, their lives are worth it. I’m asking this motion here to ask the government to reconsider, and I would appreciate the support from all Members. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. To the motion. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will be supporting the motion here. I appreciate my colleague bringing this forward. This relying on industry…(inaudible)…policy, as we heard during our tour in the Bakken from just about everybody not to rely on industry, don’t be controlled by them. In fact, take control and make them participate and so on. We heard a lot of horror stories last winter, and I know the Minister and the Member for the Sahtu described some of the close calls they actually witnessed, and we’ve all heard stories from people who drove the highway and observed people or truck drivers and their trucks falling down hills, and in one case even abandoning the truck when it started to slide down the hill. These sorts of accidents.
We know that industry ignored the rules and the regulations for the use of the ice road and were ignorant about that, and I know the department’s been working on that, and I think maybe late in the game we did try to get some enforcement going out there, but this is pretty classic stuff. Now we are talking about moving into a season where we are actually going to be moving toxic hazardous materials over the road in large quantities with large, wieldy pieces of equipment, so the costs are going up. The stakes are much higher.
During our tour, again, we heard from the medical emergency people that the sorts of accidents that you see with this sort of activity are, as they described in their words, grotesque, horrific, like a war zone. These are big, awkward pieces of equipment, often with hazardous materials and it’s not pretty. In fact, like a war zone, they said. They were having to treat more and more people for emergency medical providers with post-traumatic stress syndrome as a result of attending these accidents. I think we are treating this pretty lightly. I appreciate, again, the attention that my colleague Mr. Yakeleya is bringing with this motion, to try and learn from the lessons of others and get ahead of the game here. I know the Minister is also aware of this information. It was his tour that we were on when we heard this information. I appreciated that opportunity. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. To the motion.
Question.
Question has been called.
---Carried
We will continue on with activity 9-10. I have Mr. Nadli.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to make reference to the matter in terms of how it is that priorities are set in terms of the highways and construction and, of course, the maintenance.
How does the department deal with the various winter roads across the North? Some perhaps could be a higher priority than other areas. Some could be abandoned. What is the position of the Department of Transportation?
Thank you, Mr. Nadli. For that I’ll go to Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We would, of course, look at the winter roads and the provision of services on those winter roads. We try to treat them all the same, but in the case of an area like the Sahtu with all the activity that is going on there, obviously we have had to do more in that area because of the number of trucks going across the winter road.
I’m not sure if the Member has a specific question. We would be more than happy to try to answer it. We maintain. We build I think it is close to 1,500 kilometres of winter roads in this territory every winter. Thank you.
Mr. Chair, the question that I wanted to ask is whether the department will continue the maintenance of the winter road access, previously the winter crossing west of the Deh Cho Bridge in Fort Providence. Thank you.
Mr. Chair, yes. We have a priority to maintain the main highway system here in the NWT. I’m aware of the Member’s request for the department to maintain that access that was previously there prior to the construction and opening of the Deh Cho Bridge last November. We have a letter that is going to be coming to the Member, suggesting that the community look at opportunities through the funding that they have, the Community Opportunities Fund that’s funded on an annual basis by the GNWT, and I had a chance to discuss that letter earlier with the Member.
I will go back to the department and see if there is a way. I’m not sure exactly what it would cost to maintain that portion of road, but that’s something we will take a look at. Thank you.
Mr. Chair, I am encouraged by the Minister’s reply. The other area that I was interested in is the proposed pullout between I believe it’s Paradise Gardens and Enterprise. What is the project scope, the details, the schedules in terms of seeing it realized? Perhaps before the summer?
Thank you, Mr. Nadli. For that we’ll go to Mr. Neudorf.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We, with some funding this year already and then with some additional funding next year, want to construct a pullout on Highway No. 2, kilometre 18, a place where trucks can be pulled over for inspection purposes, or if we have to close the highway because of a wide load, then we can use that as a place to hold other traffic that might be travelling on the road.
We have a site selected. We are going through the design. We will purchase materials this year and then actually construct that pullout, including chipsealing the surface next year. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Neudorf. Mr. Nadli.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Has the department initiated any discussions with the community of Enterprise or even the neighbouring community of the reserve in terms of the project scope and how they can be involved? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Nadli. For that we’ll go to Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don’t believe we’ve had any discussions with the neighbouring communities, but that’s something we could certainly undertake. Thank you.
That’s all. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Nadli. We are moving on with questions on this activity. Mr. Blake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just back to highways. I mentioned a number of times that the community of Aklavik would like to see a project to Willow River to their access source. I just wanted to raise that and hopefully we could see that in the budget before our term ends. Thank you.
