Can I get confirmation that the Minister said the department will be developing a policy for non-government organizations’ infrastructure that we would consider contributing to? Not just to a Children First sort of structure but an NGO structure.
When I speak of this policy, of course, I can only speak from my departmental perspective. The early childhood development framework, that has to pertain to that. If Members are alluding to overall GNWT initiatives, that’s an area that we need to discuss further. Involvement of NGOs, their input, of course, will be invaluable towards this policy because it is for their pursuance down the road when they seek funds through the GNWT. We will be working with them, as well, and also the standing committee of the Regular MLAs as we move forward on this particular piece of work.
I mentioned earlier that I’m a big supporter of early childhood development and the social aspects of child care. I think this government should provide universal child care. The Minister is making steps in that direction. Can I assume that the department supports universal child care in the Northwest Territories?
In my language will be [English translation not provided], meaning that we have to take certain steps towards this. It is in the works with the Early Childhood Development Framework. That is the start for us. We’re thinking long-term universal, and that could be the end goal, but we have to take baby steps, as well, towards this framework that’s before us. We need to finalize that with the input across the Northwest Territories. We’re going to be consulting with stakeholders and we will be listening to those experts on how we can start implementing this framework. We are working towards that as a long-term initiative.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Moving on with questions I have from Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a comment and a couple of questions here.
I want to follow up to discuss the project for the Children First Society, the early childhood care and education facility in Inuvik. Like other Members, I fully support this project, it’s needed, and I give full credit to the members of the Children First Society, who did a great job of raising funds and have done an excellent job to get themselves the facility that they know they need.
My concern with this particular project is the process that was used to get it to the capital budget. We have apparently, according to the Finance Minister, have and have had a red-flag list, and I think the Finance Minister said earlier last week that the red-flag list is projects that are next in line. So one therefore assumes that projects will be on the red-flag list, then, as capital budgets go by, they will move from the red-flag list into the capital budget. This item was not anywhere near the red-flag list. This item wasn’t on anybody’s capital list until about a year ago. Probably not even that long ago.
In my mind, the problem is that we are funding a facility which the GNWT will not own. I appreciate that it is an NGO. I appreciate that they’ve done good work. But we are, as the Minister has said, setting a precedent.
I don’t think it was well thought out what precedent we were setting. I don’t think it was well thought out the implications that it would have for every other NGO in the NWT who is struggling for funds and would love to have a million dollars of infrastructure funding. The project itself is great, but the way that we got it to this capital budget, in my mind, was not the right way to do it and I don’t think it was well thought out.
We do need a policy, and the Minister has said he’s looking at a policy just for his department, and I want the Minister and all of the Cabinet to know that the policy that we need is not one just for Education. We need a policy that will cover every department, every NGO in the territory, so that we have a policy that when an NGO asks for infrastructure funding, no matter from what corner of the NWT they come, or what corner of the budget they’re coming from, that we have a policy that we can lean on and that will guide us in making a decision to fund them or not to fund them. The policy should not refer just to either Education or to early childhood development. It needs to be one that applies across the board of the whole of government.
That said, I’ll just leave that at that. The Minister has spoken to this project already. I don’t really need a response. I guess I do need a response. I would like a confirmation, and if the Minister can’t give it, then I think Members on this side of the House would like it from the Premier or Cabinet that the policy that is going to be developed will be one that applies across government and not just to the Department of Education.
The other thing that I wanted to mention, there are a couple of things that are not in the budget. I mentioned these in my opening remarks but I do need to mention them here again. There are several educational facilities which, again, are not on the budget. Sissons School is one. It’s well past its time for renovation and it was on the capital budget a number of years ago. It is no longer anywhere to be seen on the capital budget. I think that’s wrong. I’ve been advised that it’s in the works. I can’t see it on a piece of paper, so that concerns me.
Mildred Hall School is another one which has had renovations a number of years ago but there’s a certain portion of those renovations which were not completed, and again, there’s no money in any budget that I can see now or in the future that will allow for Mildred Hall to finish those renovations, the ones that weren’t done.
Thirdly, and again this has been mentioned a number of times, but there is no indication in the budget for any funding anywhere that I can see in the future for a stand-alone campus for Aurora College in Yellowknife. I know the Minister has responded and said, you know, it’s being worked on and so on, but it needs to be into the capital budget. As I said, I don’t see it anywhere and that really concerns me.
In terms of these three facilities, I guess my question to the Minister is: Why are they not in the budget? If not for the 2013-2014 capital year, why are they not in future years? Why do we not have an indication that they are on the radar soon and that these three facilities are going to be getting the money that they need to start their planning to do their renovations or to do their building within the next couple of years?
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. I agree with the Member that this particular project is badly needed in Inuvik and her concern is also noted. I’ve already alerted her to our next step. It is, again, 90-plus students or children that will be in the facility. We may not own the building, but it is part of the empowerment. It is part of the partnership that we talk about partnership in this House even at the federal level. We don’t even own the dementia that’s in Yellowknife. It goes on and on, but we need to do this for the community of Inuvik.
The policy may not be just for ECE. It could be for overall GNWT. I need to talk to my Cabinet colleagues if we need to develop an overall policy. When it first came down it was more specifically geared toward ECE, so we are talking about, okay, it will be part of the Early Childhood Development Framework. That policy will be reflecting on that, and I will be sharing that with my Cabinet colleagues as we move forward to develop, if it’s going to be an overall GNWT policy per se.
With respect to the various infrastructures that the Member indicated, there are plans in place, as well, with J.H. Sissons. My department is working with the school district. We’re in the process of completing an education plan and also a planning study. We have to do this before a major infrastructure renovation could happen. It is beginning in November 2012. I can share this information with the Members as well. Following that will be the planning study that will be scheduled for completion in fall of 2013.
Mildred Hall is another area that we’ve done some major renovations. Some of the outstanding work has been identified through the capital needs assessment, and also includes renovation of the gymnasium and upgrading of the exterior walls and windows. That’s an area that has been worked on, as well, and my department will bring the project forward for consideration during the 2014-2015 capital planning process. It may not show on here but we are moving forward on those matters.
The college stand-alone, we’ve extended our lease for three years and potentially five years. It all depends on our consultation with PWS and my department with a potential investor or contractor organization that we’ve been in touch with on how it’s going to look. We are discussing those matters. It may not show up on this year’s capital planning process, but we are discussing it seriously. My counterpart Mr. Glen Abernethy and myself have been in discussion on this and working with various private sectors as we move forward. Definitely, we would like to see something down the road within a short period.
Just a couple of comments to the Minister. I do believe that the Dementia Centre is owned by the government. There was a great deal of consternation when that happened, so I’m pretty sure that it’s owned by the government.
With regard to Mildred Hall and J.H. Sissons not appearing in the capital plan, the budget document that’s been tabled doesn’t show future years, but I’m very pleased to hear the Minister say that Mildred Hall and J.H. Sissons will be in ’14-15, because that’s not the information that we were given at committee. I’m very glad to hear the Minister say that on record, because now we can amend those other documents, hopefully.
I don’t have any other questions, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to make those comments. Thank you.
I’ll take those as comments. Would the Minister care to reply to those?
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. When I referred to the ’14-15 capital planning process, that’s for Mildred Hall. The other one is still in the planning stages with a study and also an education plan. We will be taking forward those plans, once it’s completed, for the capital planning process.
Thank you, Minister Lafferty, for clarification. Next on my list I have Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to, of course, continue my dialogue and actually ask a library question, as well, in my dialogue about replacing the school in Trout Lake. I know that government, we do have a 20-year needs assessment, so maybe I can ask the Minister if he can show me that list and show me where the Trout Lake school is on the 20-year needs assessment, and maybe we can start that dialogue there and if he can make a commitment that we can meet sometime this week to look at exactly where the Trout Lake school is on the capital needs assessment.
We had a good debate in the House here today. I don’t have to go on at length about the needs of the community of Trout Lake and some of the reasoning that they have given me, which I have spoken about. I know that the department has their own assessment of the school in Trout Lake. But I think, overall, the point I’ve been trying to make, it’s a classroom in the community hall and it’s not a replacement school, which was promised to the community of Trout Lake many, many years ago. If the Minister could provide that information, like I said, I would be happy to meet with him at another point in time.
Changing the topic just briefly, it was about trying to get the library issue addressed, as well, in the community of Fort Simpson. I know that I haven’t had an opportunity for an update in Fort Simpson, but the needs are still there for a stand-alone library as well. I’d like to work towards it. I know that we’ve got some money in the capital budget but it’s meant for minor repairs and replacement and things like that, but I’d certainly like to continue to pursue the library needs in Fort Simpson.
Speaking about the library budget, I know that in our capital substantiation there seems to be a year skipped. There’s money put aside this year for ’13-14. It seems to be absent. I just thought I’d double check that. We’re skipping a year, so we’re getting funding for this coming fiscal year. The following one there’s no money in the budget, and then the third year we’re getting a contribution for the library. I’m just curious why that is there, Mr. Chair. Thanks.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Minister Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. We did have a lively debate earlier on Trout Lake, and I do understand where the Member’s coming from and I’m seriously looking into this, as well, with my department. I’ve already indicated to my deputy that there are certain schools that we may have to seriously look at. There’s been an increase in enrolment. History shows us that the enrolment has been increasing, so that’s an area that we can definitely look at and start planning, conduct a planning process for the Charles Tetcho School in Trout Lake. I will be committing to working with the Members and also the standing committee to make this part of the priority for this government, as well, along with other schools in the Northwest Territories.
The 20-year plan, unfortunately, is not general public information so I won’t be able to share that information at this point. Again, I’m committed to working with the Members on the school itself.
With respect to the community library, in the past we’ve worked with the town council to try and identify a location. It’s been a struggle. It’s been a challenge. But at the same time, I’m of the opinion that we need to discuss that further and again open up our discussion. I understand there are some new council members as well. We will be going to the community of Nahendeh and we will be visiting Fort Simpson. I’d like for my team to look into the library area again, because I have my new deputy as well. She will be visiting all or most of the communities. I’m making a commitment to the Member that I will be visiting and we can discuss it further from there.
I’m pleased that the Minister is taking these concerns very seriously, and I certainly look forward to travelling with him in my riding in the future. With that, I have no further questions.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Moving on with questions, I have the Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In this particular case, I’d like to thank Member Bisaro for asking the questions I was going to pursue, but I’m not going to necessarily let them slide without getting some clear emphasis on that.
The Minister did make a commitment. Now I’m trying to understand what the commitment was for both Mildred Hall and Sissons. This Minister has a horrible history of saying we do discussions and we have to have meetings, but there always seems to be a lack of detail about commitment on that. So maybe the Minister could elaborate on what Members can expect coming into the next fiscal budget year calendar and what it means. Quite often I’ll hear we’re working on that, we’re talking on that. With all due respect, it means nothing to anybody.
I’d like to know in this House today, right now, what does he mean by there will be a commitment in the 2014-15 budget to help address the problems both at Mildred Hall and Sissons schools.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. If we don’t talk, nothing happens. So that’s where we are.
With respect to the J.H. Sissons and also Mildred Hall, I’ve already answered that question. We are planning with the school district, for J.H. Sissons, an education plan and planning study. There is a timeline schedule; November 2012 is when it’s going to begin, the education plan. Also 2013, in the fall, the planning study is to be completed. From there we will be putting forward for the next capital planning project at that time to be considered by this government.
With respect to Mildred Hall, again I indicated 2014-2015, that’s when we’re going to bring forward a submission. So I’m not sure how clear I can be, Mr. Chair, but that is part of the plan. Mahsi.
That’s not what he said to Member Bisaro. Member Bisaro just confirmed that with me. Unless we’re hearing something different through these ear pieces, I’m not sure what language they’re speaking over there. I know he spoke English because I did recognize a few words.
What I’m looking for to make sure we’re all on the same page is a page of information that the Minister can provide to both me and other Members, whether all Regular Members, that’s fine. It doesn’t matter to me. I certainly know Ms. Bisaro and Mr. Bromley, as well as probably you, Mr. Chair, would be interested in this particular information as to what exactly they will be committing.
I am glad to hear, although reluctant, but glad to hear there’s a planning study that would be starting in November 2012. That’s the most I’ve ever heard out of asking this type of a question for years. At least that’s something.
As far as Mildred Hall goes, I have to admit I didn’t really hear what was coming forward. Mildred Hall already had a plan as to what capital needs they had. I know they approached the former DM on a number of occasions through the school board to get the renovations that had been left out of the last retrofit it had back in 2003 and 2004, in that era. They are still waiting for completion. I’m starting to feel like a resident of Trout Lake. You get promised something and, of course, they walk away from their promise.
So I can tell you that school and school board are quite frustrated by the lack of attention Mildred Hall has received on finishing its agreed upon renovations. So maybe the Minister can talk in detail about what we can expect for the 2014-15 budget year that will specifically target the needs of Mildred Hall. Thank you.
The department will bring forward the project for Mildred Hall for consideration during the 2014-2015 capital planning process. The outstanding work that’s been in play with the previous major renovation that was undertaken, some of the work hasn’t been completed. So those are some of the areas that could be identified through this capital planning process. I will get my director, Mr. Devitt, to elaborate more on the technicality of the process. Mahsi.
Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Mr. Devitt.
Mr. Chair, the capital planning process for major projects in this government goes in stages. The first stage, in terms of the school, is to complete an education plan to look at the future requirements for facilities to operate the education program. The next stage, which I think is common to all major projects, is to complete a planning study which actually includes the preliminary design of the building so that the scope of the building and the actual cost of the building can be estimated. At that point a project can be considered by the government for inclusion in the capital plan. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Devitt. Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to make sure we’re all on the same page, what does the Department of Education view as deficiencies at the Mildred Hall School that’s been left over since the 2003-2004 half renovation?
Mildred Hall was renovated. When it was renovated, we took down the 1965 wing and we also did renovations to some of the newer sections of the building. But we did that with the idea that we would come back probably about 10 years later, which would be in the next, probably, five years, and look at renovating the other parts, which includes the gymnasium. Right now the school is in fairly good condition, so we don’t see any major deficiencies. Thank you.
At least we got the gym on the agenda here for discussion. As I understood it, there was roofing as well as window replacements that needed to still be done, as well as some areas of flooring, if I understand correctly. Does that jog anyone’s memory from the department? Thank you.
When we did the assessment of the building, there were parts of the building – and I believe the Member is correct – windows and other things that were considered in usable condition. They did a cost-benefit analysis and they decided at that point the windows did not need replacing. Thank you.
YK1 has, for a number of years, been requesting the completion of the renovation and upgrade of that older building. I’m glad it was put on record. That the 1964/5 wing – I couldn’t remember what year it was – but it was part of that old design. How much has been the requested submission through the YK1 board to finish and complete the renovation project that had started? I thought it was in the range of $1.5 million. Maybe someone can clarify the request that’s been outstanding probably for the best part of eight years. Thank you.
I don’t have the exact number, but we did do some renovations, I believe, that were the amount the Member mentioned, in 2009 to address some of the upgrades that weren’t captured in the original renovation. So that might be the number he’s referring to. Thank you.
Would the department provide me with the latest information submitted to the Department of Education provided by Yellowknife Education School Board No. 1, including its budget as well as the scope? I would rather not an edited package, if I could request it.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. We will be more than willing to share that with the committee members. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final supplementary question, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At the same time, I’d like to request some information on Sissons. As I understand it, there are, I’m going to say, code violations, although I’m not sure that’s the right phrase. So I stress I don’t want to cause any alarms, but if I understand it, there were some violations that were important upgrades. Whether it be the fire alarm system or things of that nature, I don’t recall them at this particular second, but there was an assessment on short-term needs at Sissons, and I’m wondering if I can get a briefing note that reflects the immediate and medium-term Sissons’ needs done as an upgrade until we get to the larger updating of the school. Can I request a copy of that information? Thank you.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Yes, we will be providing more detailed information to the Members. We have been working with Public Works and Services on providing an update on the technical status evaluation in March of 2011 on the actual building. But if there are deficiencies that we should be aware of, certain areas that are not up to code, then we should be aware of it. We haven’t been notified in that area, but we will be providing the latest status that we have. Mahsi.
Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Moving on to the second round of questioning I have Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’d like to ask a question about the Kaw Tay Whee School. I know the Minister was able to get some work done on that school, but obviously our enrolment is increasing quite a bit. There’s some very good leading taking place there, but they’re finding it more and more challenging in the space available, to the point where the community has gone to private enterprise and sought help in building an appropriate school facility. It just seems a little bit piecemeal and, obviously, that should be the responsibility of public funds. Can the Minister give me an update on where we’re at with the Kaw Tay Whee School and getting it renovated to the point it needs to be at, given the soaring enrollment there? Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. In 2012-2013 for the Kaw Tay Whee School there’s been a request for interior works, $286,000. The DEA has requested additional time for raising external funding for this particular project. So in an effort to increase the scope to include the classroom addition that the Member is referring to, the funding will be carried over to fiscal year 2013-2014. So we are working with the DEA on this particular school and we need to respect their wishes, as well, but we’ll do what we can to complete that project as well. Mahsi.
Thank you. I’m wondering if this is a new policy that leaves the provision of public facilities to communities to work with private enterprise and seek funding arrangements for public facilities. Is that a new policy that Education is embarking on, and should our community schools be out there seeking funding partners other than the government for this responsibility?
Mahsi. It’s been standard within our department that we need to work with the DEA, as well, and especially when it comes to school additions or renovations or retrofits. In the past the school boards have contributed in certain areas of their own investment for expansion. So we need to be mindful of that, where they play a key role as well. There’s been an increase in funding as well. I’m just reading over the document that’s been provided to us. So, again, the DEA wrote to our department offering a contribution of $64,000 to increase the scope of work to include the classroom addition. So we are, again, working with them. We have done so in the past with other DEAs and DECs as well. So we’ll continue to make that work. Mahsi.
Thank you for that information and I appreciate the Minister’s comments there. I wonder if he could provide committee with the policy that you have on this sort of business where we seek resources or permit or partner with DEAs such as those going out to private enterprise for support for public infrastructure.
We’ll provide the information. Again, the information item for Members is: September 2012, of course, the DEA, Kaw Tay Whee School added Grade 7 and also plans to add a Grade 8 in September 2013. So those are the discussions that we are having with the school board and I just wanted to give an update to the Members as well. Mahsi.
That’s also good information to have. Obviously, it’s in my riding and I’d be interested in maybe a briefing from the Minister on where we’re at with that school and what the vision is of the department for that facility and the role they see for the DEA and other partners. Thank you.
We can provide a detailed briefing or briefing materials to the Member if that is the wish. Mahsi.
Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Committee, we are on page 8-7, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, education and culture, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $2.329 million.
Agreed.
Thank you. If I can get Members to turn back to 8-2, Education, Culture and Employment, department summary. Mr. Bromley.
