Thank you, committee. I’d like to thank our guests here this afternoon, Mr. Heath, Ms. DeLancey. Thank you for joining us here in the Chamber, and, of course, the Minister. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could please escort the witnesses out of the House.
Committee, I’ll get your attention on the Department of Justice in your capital estimates, page 47. With that, we’ll turn it over to the Minister responsible to see if he has any witnesses he’d like to bring into the House. Minister Ramsay.
Yes, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.
Minister Ramsay, if you’d be kind enough to introduce your witnesses to the Chamber this afternoon.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my right is Sylvia Haener, deputy minister, Department of Justice; and to my left is Ms. Kim Schofield, director of finance, Department of Justice.
Thank you. Ms. Schofield, Ms. Haener, welcome to the Chamber again. Committee, as we indicated earlier, we are foregoing any opening comments. We are going to go directly to general comments. Again, general comments. Does committee agree that if there are no general comments we can proceed to detail?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. We are going to forego page 47 until we’ve been done consideration of detail. I’d ask committee to turn to page 48, Justice, corrections, infrastructure investments, $17.166 million. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Page 50, court services, infrastructure investments, $620,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. I’ll get you to return to page 47 for total infrastructure consideration. Justice, infrastructure investments, total infrastructure investments, $17.786 million. Does committee agree? Mr. Yakeleya.
Mr. Chair, I want to register my comments, I guess, on this one here. It has to do with the North Slave Correctional Centre, the security fencing. The justification for this versus some of our own communities’ needs of correction in the small communities and the types of situations where our justice programs and services, things that we want to do in our small communities are always falling off the table because of no money or we just don’t do it this year, and we have a facility that’s here that the department wants to, for their reasons and their own justifications, put a $2 million fence to keep the inmates in the correctional facility. So you have them in the building, you have them locked up, now you’re going to put a $2 million fence around it to keep them in their further.
We have communities in the Sahtu that looked at integration of inmates. Our inmates in the centres are 90, maybe – the Minister can give me the correct number of Aboriginal inmates – and we want to look at the programs that we would like to see as infrastructure we would like to see in our communities. The Minister knows; he is well aware. He did the tour in the Sahtu and he heard people. I’m hoping to have some infrastructure for justice camps that some people are asking for. The department always says, well, we don’t do the infrastructure but we will consider, providing that they fall within the guidelines of operations and maintenance. However, you community members look for the infrastructure. Go to the Minister of ITI, maybe, do a business proposal or go to the land corps, but you have to find the money.
We have a number of examples across the North here where organizations had received infrastructure money but also received O and M budgets. I know that we’re going to, under this budget here, spend $2 million next to a residential lot because they’re building there. I question if the lot developers are going to build close to a correctional institution in the North here, that’s a territorial, almost like a federal institution where there are inmates in there that need more rehabilitation, need more work to come out and be a contributing member to society. Well, that’s their way of doing business, but the one I’m talking about is the justice healing camps that do it in the Aboriginal context that they can have camps within the Northwest Territories. There are reasons why some people just need to be locked up, and I get that, but a lot of our people who are in these facilities have gone through it because of alcohol abuse, and I’ve seen that. I’ve seen a lot of people who are in these facilitates are because of the abuse with alcohol or drugs. It’s just plain stupid, getting drunk and doing things. Once they’re sober, they’re pretty good people. They’ve got to be worked on, but the place for that type of situation needs to be dealt with on the land with our own elders to work with them.
So I question the $2 million. Again, the Justice department would give a good case why it needs to build it there. It’s gone through the process; this is not just talking of it. The capital planning process is a process, and I understand that, but again, the lot developer could have thought about this to say, hey, I’m building next to a territorial correctional institution. I’m going to put trailers, I’m going to put houses there, whatever, I’m going to build that lot. To have a sense of security maybe I’ll put a fence up, but maybe that’s not what the requirements are. Then maybe the GNWT now, hey GNWT, I’m going to put some houses up, what are you guys going to do? I mean, I guess if this was done in any of our small communities, I don’t know if this would happen; I’m not too sure. But I’m saying you don’t need to do that. You need to invest in infrastructure for on-the-land programs. Put some money into the buildings. There’s existing camps. There are people who want to get these camps going, but the structure isn’t there to support them. People are not rich in Good Hope or Tulita or Deline. Look at our unemployment rate; look at the economies there.
So, Minister, I’m just voicing my concern over it. Minister, I get the sense that this budget is going to go through, but I want to voice my concerns for the record. I’m not very pleased with these expenditures and you will definitely give me your reasons, the department’s reason. I’m not a happy camper sitting over here on this one because I don’t see much improvement for on-the-land programs up and down the valley. You know what? We went to the Beaufort-Delta and we went on the river and we went to visit the Inuvik shelter. They’ve got a beautiful facility, a log building in McPherson and Inuvik. They had it, nothing. We have to start giving credence to the Aboriginal culture and their type of restitution, Aboriginal concept of how do we heal our people, otherwise you’re going to keep sending them back here, back in and back out.
So, Minister, I’m speaking as an Aboriginal person coming from a small Aboriginal community. I know there are some people that are just really, really hard and so they keep coming back in. But I know that when people are out on the land, it’s healing, it’s refreshing and there are a lot of things you can do out there for the person. That’s what the elder in Colville Lake has said, Mrs. Kochon. That’s what Colville Lake wants to do, put a program there. We have to clean them out again. Coming from that facility, we have to clean them out when they come back to our community. So I don’t know if the department gets it on the Aboriginal concept of healing and reconciliation, especially with this type of process to have to go through just like cattle. I’m thinking that we could use this $2 million in a better sense and I’m going to leave it at that. I appreciate the Minister hearing me venting and I’d like to see somewhere in the upcoming infrastructure that programs are more supported in the community on the land, because spending $2 million on this program on a fence, you know, this is a fence and that’s a crying shame that we can’t do that in the community. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I certainly appreciate the Member’s concerns and questions regarding the $2 million on the security fences at the North Slave Correctional Centre. I want the Member to know that initially when I saw that number, I had a number of questions, as well, for the department. Once I had a look at the reasons why we needed to construct a security fence and a perimeter fence at North Slave Correctional Centre, the cost can be justified. It is something that we need to move forward with.
I’m glad you brought up the spiritual and cultural component of on-the-land type of programming. Really what building a fence at North Slave Correctional Centre is going to do is allow us to have the inmates get out to our spiritual and cultural area at the facility so that they can get the programming that’s taking place out there. Hopefully they won’t end up coming back into the facility and will get the help that they need.
The perimeter fence, the timing is right for us to move on both the security fence and the perimeter fence because of the housing development that is being constructed next door. We have an in-kind contribution from the developer of that lot to help us build the perimeter fence. The interior security fence will be corrections grade, it will have lighting, it will have the closed-circuit television, it will be connected to the facility’s other security systems. So when you look at the proximity of the facility to 150 new homes, it is important that we have both a security fence and also a perimeter fence not only to keep the inmates in but also to – you know, there’s going to be a lot of young children in the area – keep people out. Also, it certainly will help with contraband getting into the facility as well.
So when you look at all of these things, we really do need to move forward with getting this project completed. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Committee, we’re on page 47, Justice, total infrastructure investments, $17.786 million. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Does committee agree we’ve concluded consideration of the Department of Justice?
Agreed.
Thank you very much. I’d like to thank our witnesses here today. Ms. Schofield, Ms. Haener, thanks for joining us and, of course, to the Minister. Sergeant-at-Arms, would you please escort our witnesses out of the Chamber, please. Thank you.
Committee, we are going to continue on with the NWT capital estimates with Industry, Tourism and Investment. With that, we will turn it over to the Minister responsible to see if he has any witnesses he would like to bring into the House. Minister Ramsay.
Yes, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Thank you.
Mr. Ramsay, if you would be kind enough to introduce your witnesses to the House, please.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. To my right I have Ms. Kelly Kaylo, assistant deputy minister, economic development, with Industry, Tourism and Investment, and to my left I have Mr. Peter Vician, deputy minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Ms. Kaylo, Mr. Vician, welcome back to the House. Committee, as we agreed earlier, there will be no opening comments. We are going to proceed directly to general comments. Does committee agree that we forego general comments and go straight to detail?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. We are on page 41 and we’re going to defer that until we deal with the activity. With that, I will ask committee to turn to page 42, which is for information. Are there any questions?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Page 44, Industry, Tourism and Investment, tourism and parks, infrastructure investments, $2.575 million. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. If I can get you to return to page 41, Industry, Tourism and Investment, total infrastructure. Mr. Yakeleya.
Mr. Chair, I just want to make a comment to the Minister. When I met with the Colville Lake leadership and they talked about the Fur Program, they are very pleased. Just before the opening of this Assembly, I contacted Colville Lake and I met some of them in Norman Wells and they are really excited. It was just like Christmastime because the snow was coming and they were getting ready and will be going out to the traplines and setting them up, and they said there’s a lot of excitement in the air. That attests to what the Minister says and what the department is saying about the furs that the Colville Lake trappers get.
Along with the other programs that the department has, is there an analysis as to what does it cost to have a trapper get his stuff ready and go out? There are different numbers they have. Some say $5,000, some say $10,000, depending on the length, depending on how far they’re going. That’s a small business, and the Colville Lake people certainly enjoy their business, and certainly the Genuine Mackenzie Fur Program is an ace in the hat there. It’s good. It’s good for them. They wanted to know, other than the land corps and the CHAP program and the programs you have, because gas is quite expensive there and getting stuff ready is quite expensive and there’s not too much work there, so they rely on it. But they’re very proud people; they’ll do it anyway.
I want to ask the Minister on just some of this…(inaudible)…they can get later on, if he has some of an idea as to what message. We do it as a business. What does it cost to run a business? We do all the numbers. What about trapping?
The other part of this is the trappers asked me to ask the Minister when the furs are being brought down to the States or somewhere in southern Canada, is it possible for one or two of them to go there to witness the auction and sales to see how the international buyers look at the Northwest Territories furs and the furs from Colville Lake? We say about this to each other in the House and Colville furs are quite sought after in the North, so they are very keen and interested to witness it themselves.
Those are my comments for ITI and I am really okay with that.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to thank the Member for his comments and just a brief comment back if I could. Some of the best trappers in the Northwest Territories come from the Member’s region, and Colville Lake is a highly regarded trapping area in the Northwest Territories, so we’re happy to continue to support trapping in the Member’s riding and in the territory. When we design programs, we do go in and do an analysis of what it is and what things cost and how we can best help trappers get out on the land pursuing their trade. I don’t have that information with me right now, but I’d be happy to go back to the department and we can try to pull some of that information together on how we design the programs that we have in place today to help support the trapping industry here in the Northwest Territories.
I’m very happy to hear that folks are anxious to get back out on the land trapping. It’s very good to see. I like to think that ITI and the Government of the Northwest Territories have had a lot to do with the success that we’ve seen lately with trapping. Thank you.
There are also other trappers in the North, you know, waiting for the snow to come. I guess they’re in the same situation as Colville Lake.
I just want to ask the Minister if he will give any consideration to the invitation to trappers from Colville Lake to go down to visit an auction type of sale that goes on when they have that event. Thank you.
I should also mention the support that ITI gets from ENR, as well, on this as we support trappers around the Northwest Territories.
As for the Member’s suggestion that we look at taking a couple of top trappers, maybe we could look at the top trapper having an award or… We can look at that. I think it is a good suggestion and something that, I think, if the trapper gets a chance to go to an auction and see how it all plays itself out from trapline to auction floor, I think that is a good experience for them to have and something that we will certainly consider. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Committee, again we are on page 41, Industry, Tourism and Investment, total infrastructure investments, $2.575 million. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Does committee agree we have concluded consideration of the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. I would like to thank our witnesses, our guests here this evening. Ms. Kaylo, Mr. Vician, thanks again for joining us this evening, and, of course, Minister Ramsay. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort our witnesses out of the Chamber. Thank you.
Committee, we will turn it over to Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that we report progress.
---Carried
Good evening. Can I have the report of Committee of the Whole, Mr. Dolynny?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your committee has been considering Tabled Document 115-17(5), Northwest Territories Capital Estimates 2015-2016, and would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Do I have a seconder to the motion? Mr. Miltenberger.
---Carried
Orders of the day for Monday, October 27, 2014, at 1:30 p.m.:
Prayer
Ministers’ Statements
Members’ Statements
Returns to Oral Questions
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Acknowledgements
Oral Questions
Written Questions
Returns to Written Questions
Replies to Opening Address
Petitions
Reports of Standing and Special Committees
Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
Tabling of Documents
Notices of Motion
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
Motions
Motion 29-17(5), Extended Care Facilities
First Reading of Bills
Bill 33, An Act to Amend the Elections and Plebiscites Act, No. 2
Second Reading of Bills
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bill 25, An Act to Amend the Education Act
Bill 27, Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment Act, 2014
Bill 29, Human Tissue Donation Act
Bill 30, An Act to Amend the Public Service Act
Bill 32, An Act to Amend the Pharmacy Act
Committee Report 7-17(5), Report on the Development of the Economic Opportunities and Mineral Development Strategies
Tabled Document 115-17(5), Northwest Territories Capital Estimates 2015-2016
Report of Committee of the Whole
Third Reading of Bills
Orders of the Day
