Thank you, Mr. Moses. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Over the last three years with Inuvik’s troubles with their gas wells taking on water and the issue of using propane, between the Power Corp and the government, we’ve put in about $8 million to make sure we’ve tried to cushion the blow of the loss of the gas. We’ve switched the Power Corp initially to diesel; we switched our buildings back to diesel to make sure we freed up much cheaper gas to the people of Inuvik. On top of that we have a lot of programs for conservation, energy efficiencies, appliances, insulation, windows, which reduce your energy requirements. But as the Premier indicated, we’re talking about it through the Energy Charrette and the focus on generation looking at spending tens upon tens of millions of dollars to assist communities to deal with generation issues. For example, in Inuvik we’ve been monitoring the wind at Storm Hills between Inuvik and Tuk, and we know that there’s a capacity there that we could put in eight or nine megawatt wind generators that would cut reliance on diesel in Inuvik and probably Tuk by half. That’s about a 30 to 40 million dollar price tag. Those are the kind of investments, rather than subsidies, that we think would be of much bigger benefit, would minimize our reliance on diesel, cut all those greenhouse gases and lower the cost to communities.
One of the challenges on the power side is that the residential rates are pegged to the Yellowknife rate. Unfortunately, the business rates are not. They pay the fully burdened cost. So that, as well, is an issue we have to look at as we look at rate structures across the Northwest Territories, especially when it comes to essential services like food. Thank you.
Thank you. We’ve had this discussion throughout the elected Assembly with the issue going on in Inuvik with the LNG fuel shortage, all those concerns brought up before. My question was specific to the homeowner and small business operator and that they can actually get subsidized, so at the end of the day they have a few dollars in their pocket so they can get the essential services, such as food, that the Minister mentioned in his response.
Once again I’d like to ask the Minister, is he looking at some type of subsidy for the homeowner so that at the end of the day they’re not paying the full costs, as well as the small business operator who is paying the full cost? Is there a subsidy to them so that at the end of the day they have a few dollars in their pocket so they can get the essential services? The homeowner and the small business operator. Thank you.
As I indicated, we are looking at trying to minimize the reliance on diesel. We’re looking at a whole host of ways to do that. So no, there is no subsidy for heating fuel being considered. If we did it we’d have to do it for every thermal community, we’d have to do it across the Northwest Territories. It would be tremendously expensive and at the end of the day I don’t think it would do much over the long term to minimize reliance and encourage people to look at other alternatives other than diesel. Thank you.
I understand that if you do it for all thermal communities that it would get to a high cost burden on government. However, this year alone, ’14-15, we’re subsidizing heating fuel for public housing, affordable housing units in the Northwest Territories to the tune of $9 million. You add to that electrical power, water and sanitation, this year we’re subsidizing all communities to the amount of $25 million, almost $26 million, and that’s not even including any supplementary appropriations that we might see come before committee at some point. So, we’re doing it right now for public housing units.
Why can’t we do it for some communities to our homeowners who are paying high costs and having a hard time making it by? Why can’t we do that? Thank you.
Thank you. That’s part of the $200 million that the Premier referenced that we’re paying in subsidies, and if we’re going to do that for every homeowner and every business in the Northwest Territories, then I would suggest that even the hydro community folks would be there demanding that they have to pay heating fuel as well. I think it would truly beggar this government and would be very counterproductive if we just subsidized the cost of fuel. There would be no incentive for business to drop the prices.
As the world price goes down, they know that whatever they charge we will pay. We’re far better off, the people are far better off if you get off diesel, you put in pellets, you cut your energy costs, you do the things you need to do to get off this substance that’s driving you bankrupt. So that’s the issue that we’re looking at as a government. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister is correct in looking at alternative energy sources. A lot of those in past budgets, committee on this side had to do a lot of fighting to get some of those into the operating budgets.
We’ve got about 80 homes for sale in Inuvik. That means people are leaving and wanting to leave. They can’t pay their heating bills or their power bills because it’s too high. That’s 80 homes. That’s a lot of people leaving the community.
I’m not asking for a subsidy throughout the whole Northwest Territories. My Member’s statement and my questions today are specific to Inuvik because of the high cost of living.
Would he look at the community of Inuvik and look at the homeowner and look at the small business operator, which is getting fewer and fewer every year, every month? Would he look just specifically at the community of Inuvik and see what he could do to help the homeowner and to help the small business operator? Thank you.
We, as a government, have mapped out our next steps, now that we know the transmission project is prohibitively expensive to look at generation in all the communities. That is the plan where we believe there is the ability to seriously affect the cost of living.
The Member would know, as a Member of this Legislative Assembly, while from Inuvik, to look at all the needs of people in the Northwest Territories, that it would not be possible just to look at Inuvik as a stand-alone community for some special subsidy when you listen to the cost of living in McPherson and Tsiigehtchic and Sachs and Paulatuk and Ulukhaktok and Aklavik that we could not in good conscience just look at Inuvik. We are back to the issue of what is the long-term benefit. Are we just enabling and are we better off to do the planning to get people off diesel rather than just keep subsidizing and putting more money in the pockets of the oil companies and the big energy companies? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m going to take a break from asking questions about the cost of living. My questions today are just for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. I want to follow up to a motion passed in this House in March which referenced the need for AEDs and defibrillators in our public buildings.
I would like to thank the Minister for the response to the motion that was passed in March. The response by the Minister was tabled by the Minister on the 16th of October. In the response it references some of the work that has been done to date. I appreciate that we have done some work to date. There is a plan that is suggested in that response and one of the things that it mentions is it talks about a lot of partnerships, but one partnership is to partner with the federal government who has free money for us for AEDs.
I would like to first ask the Minister, what progress has been made by MACA to apply to Canada for funding available for AEDs for NWT public buildings? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister for Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m not quite sure of the status of the application right now. I can tell the Member that we have met with the NWT Fire Chiefs Association, the NWTAC and the Heart and Stroke Foundation to partner up to access this national application-based funding. So, we’ve started the work with them. We also started the project plan. We have initiated project plans, and stakeholders will be surveying all the communities to determine their needs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thanks to the Minister. As in the response that was tabled a couple of weeks ago, I hear a lot of the tense of the verbs is in the future. I would hope that we are going to be soon present tense and doing work as opposed to we will be doing work.
The federal program is a four-year program that started in 2013, so we are already one year in.
I would like to ask the Minister, in terms of the applications for money to get AEDs for free, are we going to make the deadline of the four-year program? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, I’m not quite sure of the status of the application. I will follow up with the department and provide a response to the Member. I did say we did meet with our partner organizations to start the application process. I’m not quite sure where that’s at right now. I will find out and I will respond to the Member. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thanks to the Minister. I do appreciate that there is work going on, I’m just a little nervous that in three years’ time we are going to get to the end of the road of the federal money and we won’t have anything in hand.
The Minister has mentioned twice now that he’s working with partners and developing partnerships and so on. One of them is the Heart and Stroke Foundation.
I would like to ask the Minister if he’s aware of an offer from the St. John Ambulance organization, who is offering to assist GNWT with the program, and if yes, has he contacted the St. John Ambulance? Thank you.
We are partnering with the Heart and Stroke Foundation in trying to develop some of our curriculum through the School of Community Government as to training on the AEDs and the maintenance of them. As far as the St. John Ambulance, I’m not quite sure of that one in particular. Again, I will follow up.
Any partnership that we can form to help us train first responders or people in the communities on using these particular types of equipment would be more than welcome. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final, short supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.
Thanks, Mr. Speaker. Thanks to the Minister. I am happy to provide him with a copy of the letter. I will do that immediately after session.
I would like to ask the Minister, he is talking about doing a survey of communities for needs. I presume that means the number of public buildings and the number of AEDs that they would need.
Can he give me any idea of when we can expect the survey results so that we will know our needs and can get going on further applying for money? Thanks.
[Microphone turned off] …question number four is when. I will find out for the Member. We would like to start the work as soon as possible. There are other ways the community can access some money to pay for these through the money that we provide for them. There is also some money through the ground ambulance funding that we provide to get a particular type and model that’s available to use in vehicles of first responders.
We started the work. The work is underway, and once we get the results of all the work and the survey, we will be sure to share that information with Members of the Legislative Assembly and members of the committee. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions will be directed towards the Premier. In my Member’s statement I talked about the northern residents tax deduction.
My question would be to the Premier as such, which is: When is the last time this government or any recent previous government has requested an increase to the northern tax deduction, and if there has been one in recent years, would he have anything to substantiate that so we could see what type of letter or correspondence on the particular issue has been done and certainly what work has been made on this particular issue that can help the working poor and certainly make a big difference in the everyday family’s bottom line? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Premier, Mr. McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On January 1, 2008, the northern residents deduction was increased 10 percent, from $5,475 to $6,022.50, the first increase since 1991. Our government has been working with the governments of Nunavut and Yukon to look at requesting an increase in the northern resident deduction. Three territorial Finance Ministers reviewed this, and on October 31, 2012, the Finance Ministers reported to the Northern Premiers’ Forum and also outlined a possible work plan.
Their report noted that increasing the northern resident deduction would decrease personal income tax revenues for federal, territorial and some provincial governments. It would not benefit low-income families and would only benefit high-income northern taxpayers. In addition, we would require the support of six provinces whose northern residents also receive the northern resident deduction would need to be reconfirmed. At the time, we decided it was not in the best interest of our low-income families to pursue this. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, what analysis really is broken out of this low-income factor? The Premier is right; it’s more than one jurisdiction. As a matter of fact, there is the A-base and there is the B-base, and the A-base, for sake of illustration, is the three territories. The B-base, which is a lesser tax deduction, affects places like northern Alberta, northern Saskatchewan and works its way across Canada. But with that illustration, we should be really asking ourselves, how do we encourage people to live here in the Northwest Territories, and by waving off those folks for whom this could make a difference is certainly staring down the situation in the wrong way.
What analysis do we really know? What type of impact? Would our government be prepared to do that type of analysis to find out would it still benefit all Northerners at large? If you don’t have a paycheque, it doesn’t matter what the tax deduction is. It’s the working poor and those people trying to continue to find the North still attractive. That analysis is critical. I look forward to the Premier’s answer on that particular effort. Thank you.
The tax collection agreement between the Northwest Territories and Canada requires that both jurisdictions use the same definition of taxable income. A northern resident deduction increase would reduce federal and territorial personal income tax revenue. In our forensic review, the 2008 increase in the northern resident deduction raised the maximum deduction to $6,022.50. At the highest combined federal and territorial tax rate of 43.5 percent, the $547.50 increase would provide annual savings of $235 for tax filers claiming the maximum $6,022.50. The Government of the Northwest Territories’ annual costs for this federal tax measure is about $800,000 per year.
Undoubtedly, a northern resident deduction increase would provide an incentive for people to stay in the North, but we’ve looked at the numbers. Say we wanted to get the federal government to increase the northern resident deduction by $700 a year. Let’s say we go from $6,022.50 to $6,728. The estimated cost to our government is $720,000. Let’s say we want to increase it even further from $6,022.50 to $8,500. It’s going to cost our government an extra $2.46 million a year.
I’m a little confused on the particular part about it actually particularly causing our government grief, if not financial, on the money on the bottom line. Maybe the Premier can illustrate why it actually costs us money when it’s a federal tax credit. That’s the area we should be arguing for. At the same time, this could be what starts to underpin successful growth in our territorial population, because right now we have very little.
The Premier, I think, said earlier today that we subsidize to the tune of $190 million. In that range. I mean, the exact number is not so important at this second, but the point is that we’re trying to find ways to grow our population. This is certainly one that would help those who can certainly make some money. Has the Premier considered that? We don’t need the permission of the other six provinces. We need Ottawa’s permission on this type of initiative.
The reason it costs us money is it reduces the amount of personal income tax that we collect. For example, the 2008 increase, since the claimed amount must be the lesser of the maximum allowable of $6,022.50 and 20 percent of net income, taxpayers with net income of less than $30,115 will not benefit from a northern resident deduction increase.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the answer from the Premier. I mean, it certainly goes a long way of appreciating the complexity of this issue. The bottom line is, how are we putting more money in Northerners’ pockets? It had been frozen at approximately $5,400 for decades and finally migrated by 10 percent to just above $6,000 in 2008. The bottom line is, how do we get money in Northerners’ pockets, because we know more money in a family’s pocket is really going out into the community to buy that Klik, my colleague from the Sahtu had said, whether it’s buying gasoline for their skidoos, or buying their children presents and helping to pay that costly rent and stuff. It’s initiatives like this the Government of the Northwest Territories can shelter the cost of it a little better by letting working people keep some of their working money.
Would the Premier re-examine it from that analysis, that if we can get more money in Northerners’ pockets, no doubt they’ll be spending it in our economy where it’s exactly where we would be doing it anyway?
That is our objective and we want to get more money in Northerners’ pockets. We’re always being very vigilant in this area as well as looking in other areas such as reducing energy costs, so the Energy Charrette, we expect, will go a long ways to that end as well.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Nadli.
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I wanted to talk about a dream that I always had, and one day that dream will become a reality. That dream is the idea of a potato farm. We can make it happen. I’d like to pose a question to the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment.
I want to know how responsive the Minister and this Cabinet and this government is to people out in the communities, because when you travel into the communities, people know some of the solutions to the problems that we face and the challenges that we have to meet every day that we live in communities.
The potato, of course, people know of the history of the people that came up North, and they grew their own gardens. One of the durable products that I’ve come to know is the potato. We have the right soil. In Fort Providence it’s a durable staple. Plus, at the same time, we’re situated right in the hub of the transportation where we have the river system and we have the highway system. It wouldn’t take much if there was an idea of planting an area of potatoes and building a processing facility to sell and market them and lessen the cost of living.
The question that I have is for the Minister of ITI. Does the Minister agree that this is a good idea and can be done and that this will probably curb the cost of goods in the North?
Thank you, Mr. Nadli. The Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We’ve made great strides when it comes to developing an agricultural industry here in the Northwest Territories. The Member has a good idea. I was with the Member recently this summer and we traveled down the river and there were farms historically near the community of Fort Providence. We’d certainly like to see some of that agricultural initiative renewed, and we have programs in place at ITI, working through our South Slave office, to support individuals in the Member’s community that want to get involved with agriculture. We’ve seen success stories around the Northwest Territories when you look at communities like Norman Wells, Gameti recently. If you can get somebody in the community and identify a real community leader to take on that initiative, that would be a good start.
Of course, we have the Northern Farm Training Institute that just recently received some federal funding, and hopefully some folks from Fort Providence can attend that training institute and bring those skills back to the community of Fort Providence.
I take that the Minister does, in fact, agree and support the idea of a potato farm.
With that, what is his department prepared to do to assist individuals or groups that want to grow products such as potatoes or even community gardens in their home community?
Yes, we do support the development of agriculture in the Member’s riding and all ridings across the Northwest Territories. I’d encourage anybody from the Member’s communities, if they are interested in pursuing initiatives, to contact us at our South Slave office in Hay River and we’d be more than happy to help them out.
Why can’t we make this work? This is a very practical, doable idea, and what is stopping this Minister and this Cabinet and this government of addressing a very practical need in communities? These are ideas that come from people in the communities. They know. If it was a person from the average community, you would want to know. Why can’t this be done now?
The success that we’ve seen in some other communities around the Northwest Territories has been initiated by a real community leader, somebody that is very interested in seeing that project advance. That’s why, as I mention earlier, the Farm Training Institute is so important, so that people can go to Hay River, get some training, go back to their communities and be real community leaders when it comes to developing agriculture in the communities.
Again, I’d ask the Member, if he’s got somebody in his community that is interested, we are here to help. We’d be more than happy to help community leaders and community members develop agriculture products in the communities to help offset the high cost of food in our communities.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Nadli.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will give the Minister a last chance.
Does he agree and support the idea of a potato farm in Fort Providence? Yes or no.
I prefer my potatoes with mushrooms. Yes, if we can advance that idea, I would certainly support that idea.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we embark on what appears to be another fact-finding Energy Charrette, the second one in as little as two years, the residents of NWT are again waiting for real, affordable solutions to lower their energy costs. With the cost of living the hallmark of concern, many believe this Energy Charrette will be added to a long list of productions already archived on dusty shelves. With very little given to the public or Members as to its mandate, I will have questions today for the man of the hour, the Premier of the Northwest Territories.
As mentioned, we are about to embark on what is about to be our second Energy Charrette in less than two years. Can the Premier clearly articulate what is the specific mandate for this upcoming charrette? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Honourable Premier, Mr. McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we’ve said several times, the Energy Charrette is to move us away from transmission to generation and dealing with the potential of having to live with low water going forward. So we expect to see the outcomes that will show us how to go forward in terms of empowering energy users, so that we can help find a way to become more independent in power generation and also to find cheaper ways of producing power. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
