Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Continuing on with general comments, I have Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Just in terms of the capital infrastructure that’s planned for next year. Of course, I’m certainly pleased to see the investment into Highway No. 7, the resources that are going there. It’s something that has been high on my agenda and will continue to be so. It’s $3 million a year, and certainly, it will help with that highway. Because I’ve always said, as part of our tourism plan, as well as to have a good solid highway, we can truly continue to sell the Deh Cho Trail which means coming in through Alberta and exiting through BC, or vice versa. It will be a boon to our economy.
I noted in transportation, as well, that we’ve got some chipsealing program, and residents of Fort Simpson and Fort Liard are very pleased to see additional chipsealing happening at about almost 20 kilometres per year, and we’d certainly like to see more, but I’ll continue to press for that and hopefully the department and Cabinet is in concurrence.
As well, when I speak about highways and the Highway No. 1 investment is also in the budget and I’d like to push that highway north of Fort Simpson towards Wrigley be included in some of the upgrades and investments. That’s another road, too, that definitely needs attention.
A couple of things that are sitting with P and P committee reviewing the infrastructure investment, it’s certainly missing in the short term, the Fort Simpson Health Centre. It’s slated for ’22-23, but it was certainly bandied about that it would be in the ’17-18 capital project. This whole term I have been speaking about it and it was red flagged and imminently being put in the capital plan along with the planning study. I kept asking every six months where the planning study was at. It’s the government’s own engineer’s report that said this building is over 40 years old and needs to be replaced. I just don’t see how we can continue to put it off. That is something that is high on my agenda. Hopefully we will get the planning study concluded. In fact, Mr. Chair, with your assistance we found documentation that said that the planning study was indeed completed. Now they are saying it’s not, but certainly I know we have lots of major infrastructure planned in the 18th Assembly. I believe and know that due to public interest this older hospital has to be completed, much like a priority of the government to do the Stanton. This one is a priority, so we will have a discussion at the appropriate time, but I would certainly like to see that moved up to ’17-18 where it used to be.
I am also pleased to see the investment and Trout Lake’s concurrence about retrofitting the Trout Lake School expansion and make full use of the building for the schooling needs. This is one of the few communities in the North with a growing population. There are a lot of young people moving back with young children. In fact, I think there are 18 to 21 students in Trout Lake. It definitely needs expansion of the school. You can’t do it in a one-room schoolhouse. With their concurrence about renovating the existing school, they are going to lose their community centre. That is a focal point to Trout Lake. It is used six days a week. I would like to speak about that. You are going to need a replacement community hall.
As well, there is a much needed seniors home built in Fort Liard this year. I know it was supposed to be completed this year, but they had a late start. I don’t know if the Minister can comment on that. We will see the completion in 2016 definitely.
Another way that our capital projects help our communities is with Cabinet’s concurrence and agreement with negotiated contracts with proximity communities and local businesses. I’m glad we do have this policy. It’s really, really needed. I’m glad that Cabinet continues to work with that to develop our local base, our local capacity and the merging small businesses in the small communities that do need the type of support of a negotiated contact, with the concurrence of our current leadership meeting the bands and municipalities. It is beneficial to the communities when the work can be local and we are generating income. I have made the case in the past where we have given contracts to BC companies and they were bringing in their own fuel, bringing in their own men and we generated revenue through taxation. If these people aren’t living and working in the North, then we’re not generating revenue from giving it to a southern company. I’m a strong supporter of the negotiated contract. Our capital investment is stimulating our economy and I’m supportive of it and urge Cabinet to continue to do that.
Those are my comments, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. For a reply, we’ll go to Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just note and thank the Member for his comments and evidencing his pleasure and being pleased with Highway No. 7, Trout Lake chipsealing, Highway No. 1 north of Wrigley needing work but still thankful for the work on Highway No. 1 and Trout Lake and the fact that he likes the way that contracts can be used to stimulate the economy.
With regard to the community hall, that’s a possible gas tax project the community could look at where they have capital money.
The seniors home is a housing issue. I don’t have detail to speak to that, but I would assume the intent would be to get it done. If they started late, they want to finish strong next year.
With regard to the Fort Simpson Health Centre, there’s been a lot of work underway. There are studies that have been done and they have sorted out the land and making sure… I will maybe ask Mr. Guy to talk about the land issue. There were burial sites, but there’s been work that’s been agreed to. We are looking at the whole process being done by fall 2016, which would allow us to then determine specifically if it can be reasserted into the red flag process.
Mr. Chairman, if I could just ask the deputy to talk to the land issue. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. I will go to Deputy Minister Guy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As we had proceeded with this project, there were challenges finding a site. We had looked at the location of the existing health centre and other sites in the community until we were able to come to agreement on the Deh Cho Hall site, which is what we are proceeding with now.
As part of that work, we have done the ground penetrating radar study and confirmed the locations of any potential gravesites and working with the community to address those through the planning study process.
In terms of the planning study, lots of work has occurred over July and August. The first phase of the planning study will be completed by February 2016, which is the needs assessment, operational plan, functional program. That’s going to build on all the work that was previously done in 2011-12 to bring it up to the current standard based on the work that was done on a number of other health centres and work planned since then.
The schematic design and full phase 2 of the planning study will be completed by the fall of 2016, so the project can be brought forward by the department for consideration in the future capital plans. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Guy. Mr. Menicoche, you have a few minutes left on the clock. I will let you have that opportunity.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. The construction of the Fort Simpson Health Centre is certainly a priority for the community. The department is right; acquisition of the land was of primary importance. I do concur it did take some time. I know the red flag is a priority of the government, and like I said, I’m upset it was bumped up five years as opposed to including it into the capital plan sooner, like they were just talking about. Having it in 2022-23 doesn’t give me any comfort. Sometimes when they put plans in black and white they get stuck there without somebody following up on it. Let’s take this document and put it in ’17-18. Just to do that would be a big win and create lots of certainty in the residents of Fort Simpson replacing our aging infrastructure. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. I will treat that as a final comment. You can talk more about it when we get into the activity structure. Continuing on with general comments, I have Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. My comments are similar to those of my colleagues, but I’d like to make a number of comments on this budget. I think I have to start with the Stanton Hospital Project. I look at the Minister’s opening comments and he talks about funding for the renovation of the Stanton Territorial Hospital Project. According to the newspaper a week or so ago, it’s a brand new building and I thought I heard the Minister, in response to Mr. Bromley, state that we’re going to have a new hospital. So, I’m totally confused now.
I’m thoroughly looking forward to the briefing, which the Minister said we’re having at the rise of the House. I look forward to finding out whether or not we are again getting information through the paper that we should be getting through the Minister. But I’d appreciate a confirmation as to whether this project is a new stand-alone building or a renovation of the old building. I think the Minister mentioned that the old building might be used for Aurora College. so we have conflicting messages big time here.
I also want to state, and I’ve expressed these to the Minister in a couple of messages, but this Stanton project is a P3 project and it has the potential to run off the rails and to put us into a greater financial hole to that than which we think we are in already, and I would like to state that I fervently hope that this project goes well, but I keep being advised from constituents of projects across the country that are P3 projects, especially health P3 projects, hospitals or health centres, which are fraught with all kinds of pitfalls. You know, we keep getting assured that we have this in place, we have that in place, we’ve got a policy, we’re doing this, we’re doing that, but we still end up with financial overruns, financial expenditures which are not expected, and this project, I think it’s been labeled the largest project that this government has ever done or is going to do. It’s one that’s going to require extreme monitoring, and I just hope that we are not just saying yeah, yeah, yeah, we know about the possibilities for error, but that we are seriously expecting and monitoring for errors and ensuring that they don’t happen. It’s one thing to say yes, it might happen, but it’s another to really look at it and make sure that we do everything properly so that we don’t get ourselves into hot water.
I am disappointed in the capital budget. The community infrastructure listed in the budget is $28 million. It’s been $28 million for probably as many years as I’ve been here, and in that time communities have accepted and taken on more and more community infrastructure, and yet the funding for them to either build new infrastructure or keep the old infrastructure running has stayed the same and it’s well beyond the time that community infrastructure funding increased. I keep hearing that, yes, maybe there’s been a study and maybe it’s going to increase, but there’s no evidence of that in the ‘16-17 Capital Budget and the government needs to seriously think about an increase in infrastructure funding for communities in the ‘17-18 Capital Budget.
I am very pleased to see the planning study money for the two schools in Yellowknife. I’m very pleased to hear the Minister confirm that in his opening remarks, but in general, I support Mr. Bromley’s position that the capital funding for education infrastructure has been woefully inadequate over many years and we have schools everywhere that either need replacement and/or need refurbishing; they need a mid-life retrofit and they’re just not in the capital plan. We struggled big time to get these two projects and get planning money in the budget for these two projects and yet these two schools have been both kicking around the capital plan for about 10 years and there are many other schools in other communities that are in the same boat. They’re looking for a replacement; they’re looking for a retrofit and they’re not there. So, the government has to do a better job of analyzing the education infrastructure needs and making sure it gets into the capital plan.
I am pleased to see that there is money in the budget for an extended care facility. It’s not going to be in the hospital. So, I’m very pleased to see that we are planning to provide some kind of a facility for extended care. I’m given to understand that it is possible with the Aven’s proposal that the department, Health and Social Services, will be talking to Avens about potentially combining with Avens to run an extended care facility, and that’s great news. I think if that can work, it’s certainly going to assist Avens with their proposal for their expansion project, and Lord knows we need more rooms for seniors. We definitely need more capacity for seniors, whether it’s assisted living or extended care or just supported living.
I’m concerned about housing. I know that we’re not approving an expense in this budget, but the proposed housing expenditures are listed in this capital budget and there is a need to look again at the housing that we provide in all of our communities, but particularly in Yellowknife. We don’t have enough public housing units across our territory. I realize that the federal money is decreasing, but we have a population that is struggling and it goes to the cost of living, among other things, and this government somehow has to start recognizing that we need more public housing units or we need to assist people with their housing costs somehow. We’ve made a few steps in that direction, but it’s not enough and there needs to be an analysis of the housing units that we are providing, how it fits with the needs in each and every community. I think that’s done quite regularly, but we don’t see any change in the number of units in each community and we have to increase the housing units in every community in the territory. But again, more specifically for me, in Yellowknife.
I find that this capital plan has too much of an emphasis in the Transportation department and I realize that that has to do with the Build Canada Plan, but there are other opportunities in the Build Canada Plan for different projects. The government has chosen to put all of the Building Canada Plan funding into transportation and into roads and we have to make a change to that. There’s an opportunity to use Build Canada Plan funds for energy projects, and the government is choosing not to do that, even though Members have stated the need for energy projects for quite some time.
I am disappointed that this budget has not got any concrete expenditure for a power project. Our power costs are admittedly high, and everybody you talk to says the power costs are the biggest expense that we have, the biggest impact on our cost of living, and yet in the eight years that I’ve been here we have not had a project that will effectively reduce the cost of power over the long term. We have lots of subsidies, but subsidies run out and we need to start putting projects into our capital plan that are going to affect our power production and our power costs to the individual.
Lastly, I just want to make a comment on a couple of health centres. The Simpson Health Centre, I support the need for the Simpson Health Centre to be brought back onto a decent timeline. The information that we received in our presentation was that it was scheduled for the year ’22-23, when a planning study was mostly done last year and it was scheduled for ’17-18 in the information from our capital plan last year, this current capital plan. Same thing with the Tulita health centre. Apparently the planning was mostly done and it also, in this capital plan, has been punted to the year ’22-23. Both of these projects need to be brought back to fiscal year ’17-18 and the next capital plan. We need some commitment from the government that the next capital plan will include these two projects.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. I’ll allow Minister Miltenberger a reply.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In regards to Stanton, the plan, as we will lay out tonight in detail, is going to be for a new hospital with the old hospital being designated for some other use in the coming years.
In regard to the $28 million for communities, what we have done is protected that money from any reductions, recognizing that it is a critical need and that as we manage our money and look at balancing our expenditures and revenues, that’s one area that was deemed to be in need of protection. I appreciate the Member’s comments both about the planning studies and the extended care facility planned for somewhere in Yellowknife.
In regards to the schools in the list, or the better job on schools, in my recollection, in my time there have been cycles where there have been years of schools being fixed and now we’re in a health centre renovation phase, plus trying to do housing, plus trying to do some schools, and we have, as I would remind Members, a $3 billion infrastructure deficit and the total budget this year, I think, with carry-overs and such was $300 million. So, we’re all challenged to try to meet the demand as best we can. The challenge for housing, of course, as Minister McLeod has pointed out numerous times, I think they’ve taken out over $6 million so far out of the CMHC funding and that number’s going to get bigger faster in the coming years.
With the issue of too much emphasis on roads, we pointed out, I think, when we’ve met previously, that there are options being looked at as a way to free up more cash in the capital plan through the Build Canada and deal with the roads differently where a lot of the work is basic ongoing maintenance and upgrades. So, we’ve touched on that with committee and will continue to have that discussion.
The cost of power is too high, we appreciate that. That was one of the big reasons we put the $29 million down, that we didn’t want to see an additional 20-something percent increase. We agree, as well, that we in Yellowknife need to pick up our distribution capacity, which is one of the reasons why we’re looking at an expression of interest for one megawatt, five megawatts and 10 megawatts of wind and/or solar in Yellowknife in the Snare system. We’re also doing a resiliency study and we’re revisiting some of our transmission options just to see if there are any other opportunities and we’re going to continue to invest in the thermal communities, as well, to look at the price of power. Once again, that’s going to require strategic investments and the borrowing of money in a manageable, carefully thought out way to allow us to address some of those pressing issues.
The issue of the support for the Simpson Health Centre, I appreciate the Member’s comments as I am sure does the Member for Nahendeh. So, that would conclude my response. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Continuing on with the general comments, I have Mr. Nadli.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a few comments, nothing in particular, just mostly some internal thoughts. For the most part, I think going forward a lot of the projects that have been identified in some respects have materialized over the course of the last couple of years and I think it’s clear that lacking major natural resource development projects, aside from the mines that we have, this government has to try in some way to invigorate the economy and that’s in investments and infrastructure. So, with that, at the community level there have been some efforts in terms of trying to empower local governments to come up with at least their own finance, and there have been transfers of more monetary tools in terms of the gas tax. So it enables communities to try to at least put more effort into local planning and also incentives to try and identify some projects down the road, but it also creates the opportunity for collaboration between local governments and also the territorial government. But, in some respects, too, I think we all need to be reminded that even though there’s always momentum to download and empower communities, we cannot lose the thought that the government’s still responsible to provide services and programs to local communities, especially residents. So, we need to remind ourselves that once in a while communities will want to partnership, but at the same time government still has an obligation to provide those services.
I think the thing that strikes me the most is just the cost of living and how it is that we’re trying to address that fundamental challenge that’s making life, in terms of community living, very challenging for families, single parents, students, elderly and disabled persons. The high cost of living is a big challenge. It’s amazing how our local people can endure the challenges of being unemployed. We have 50 percent unemployment rates in the communities and it’s a big challenge, so this government has to, in some respects a lot of the time, step up and assist people.
For the most part, I think there are opportunities. One opportunity that we experienced this summer was a natural phenomenon. We saw the forest fires basically decimate some areas in the NWT, and then almost as a residual effect we had the growth of mushrooms. These wild little plants created opportunities for employment, opportunities for some commercial enterprise. But it exemplifies how such a small little vegetable plant could have a big impact on government, especially for opportunities. It’s something that’s renewable and sustainable. It’s very, very complementary to the subsistence economy that we have in communities, so it worked in some respects. Some people call it a lot of hype, but in the final analysis it was something good that happened and we need to try and learn from that.
Next to that is tourism. I think there have been a lot of efforts in terms of promoting tourism. It’s important for us to maintain the facilities, especially the campgrounds that we have locally in some communities and to ensure that the highways are very good so that tourists do keep coming back up north and spending their money up here in the NWT.
Closely related to that, of course, is we have in the riding, at least in the South Slave, the potential of a wood pellet mill that is dawning and it’s getting closer to reality. It’s cause for excitement. It’s cause for hope and optimism. I would like to ensure that local communities continue to be involved. There are some communities that are standing by with their forest management agreement. They’re trying to make this work and trying to make this successful. I think government needs to be involved with that. Whether this government is going to continue with the Biomass Strategy is something that has yet to be determined. Perhaps we could be informed in terms of whether it’s going to continue.
The other thing that kind of strikes me is there was a decision to close down the treatment centre, and we realized that this government is doing all it can to try and provide a service to people who are struggling with alcohol and substance abuse and we send them down south when in fact we need to build capacities and we need to revisit that idea that we need to house our own treatment centre up here in the NWT and ensure that we also assist people.
Those are just some comments that I wanted to share. Going forward, I think this government needs to continue in terms of ensuring that there’s work along with communities to cooperate on infrastructure projects.
Thank you, Mr. Nadli. We’ll go to Minister Miltenberger for a reply.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We fully agree with the Member about the need for the government, especially in the smaller communities but across the economy as a whole, the territory as a whole, especially given the fact that we’re now into a second recession in the last eight years, to use our infrastructure dollars to help stimulate the economy. We did that in 2007. We borrowed to our limit to make sure that we had as much infrastructure go into the ground as possible, and I think we did over a million dollars in a few years. We still see that as a critical way forward, especially infrastructure that is going to help create the conditions for economic growth. We are very aware of the concern and appreciate the Member’s reminder about not just downloading if you are going to work with communities, but make sure that they have the resources to do the job. This whole Assembly has been built on the issue of trying to deal with the cost of living. We’ve been able to make some inroads, but there are still a lot of things to do, especially on the energy side.
Morel mushrooms, I agree; for a little piece of fungus, they are like gold. Changes to the Forest Management Act are coming up. ITI has done a very fine job on the promotion side and managing working with the communities and the folks who want to get into the business, so I think that’s been a very good success story.
The tourism promotion was raised, as well, in the House earlier by Mr. Moses. We’ve seen a growth in tourism and the need to pay close attention to that. On wood pellets, we’ve spent millions of dollars ourselves and the federal government working with Mr. Mapes and communities to get this to the point where it’s at. They now have the land sorted out and the actual mill should be starting construction before winter.
We fully intend, as a government, to continue with the Biomass Strategy. It’s a long-term energy plan that should have a long, long future. It’s a renewable energy source, so it should have a long future in the North.
With regard to the treatment centre, we don’t have a lot of notes on that one, but the Minister of Health will be able to have that discussion when he comes to the table here in the next few days. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. I will turn it over to Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that we report progress.
---Carried
I will ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort our witnesses out of the Chamber. I will now rise and report progress. Thank you, committee.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 281-17(5), Capital Estimates, 2016-2017, and would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Do I have a seconder? Mr. Beaulieu.
---Carried
Orders of the day for Wednesday, September 30, 2015, at 1:30 p.m.:
Prayer
Ministers’ Statements
Members’ Statements
Returns to Oral Questions
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Acknowledgements
Oral Questions
Written Questions
Returns to Written Questions
Replies to Opening Address
Petitions
Reports of Standing and Special Committees
Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
Tabling of Documents
Notices of Motion
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
Motions
First Reading of Bills
Bill 48, An Act to Amend the Mental Health Act
Second Reading of Bills
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Minister’s Statement 221-17(5), Sessional Statement
Tabled Document 281-17(5), Capital Estimates, 2016-2017
Report of Committee of the Whole
Third Reading of Bills
Orders of the Day
Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Wednesday, September 30th, at 1:30 p.m.
---ADJOURNMENT
The House adjourned at 5:29 p.m.
