In Mr. Moses’ first question he indicated that poverty is a real issue here in the Northwest Territories and poverty has a direct result on crime. We know that poverty is an issue. We know that alcoholism is an issue. We know substance abuse is an issue. This government is doing progressive work to try and deal with those things. One of those things that we’re doing is an Anti-Poverty Strategy, which Mr. Moses talked about. We’re going to continue to do those things as a government and if we can reduce some of these root causes, we should see a reduction in the number of people that are entering our facilities.
At the same time we are doing a number of things. Diversions at the RCMP level, at the front end over the last number of years, have really plummeted and we’ve been working with the RCMP to get that number of diversions at the front end up. We’re also looking at alternative courts. We’re looking at a wellness court or some other model, as supported by MLAs when we get to that point, to help address some of those individuals as they’re coming into the system to keep them out of our jails.
Within our facilities we have a significant number of programs, that I mentioned earlier today, to help people rehabilitate so that they don’t reoffend. A lot of work is required to change some of these root causes and as a government we’re starting to make progress there.
I appreciate the answer from the Minister because I was going to ask about diversion techniques. Has the department studied the diversion techniques? As I understand it, diversion techniques are sometimes necessary for the potential person who has been arrested and charged with a crime, to actually go and appear before a court to get a direction rather than maybe a sentence. That’s the type of thing I’m saying, that in some cases it probably makes more sense. Has the Department of Justice considered and studied things like rehabilitation, based on proper direction and diversion techniques?
Diversions can happen at many different levels. We have front-line diversions that are actually being conducted by the RCMP. As I’ve indicated previously, our numbers here in the Territories have dropped significantly since 2003, but in the last year and a half or two years we’ve seen a sharp spike, which I think what everybody wants to see is more front-end work done on that end. We’re also doing diversions with our community justice committees depending on different levels of crime where youth, as an example, are engaging with the community justice committees to find alternatives to sentencing which are also rehabilitative. So there’s a large range of diversions, including if we move forward with alternative courts. It’s another form of diversion. We’ve done a lot of work around diversions, exploring options and opportunities, we looked at what other jurisdictions are doing, and we’re trying to find ways to help people rehabilitate and stay out of the system.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Has the department studied diversion techniques in the sense of their success rates? What I’m talking about is how people may reoffend. In other words, if we’ve given people an opportunity to not go to jail, which in certain circumstances makes complete sense. In other cases, they need to go to jail because of the balance of what they’ve been charged and found guilty of. Has the department found any diversion techniques that make sense? Because if our present population, on average, is 88 percent, that tells me it’s significantly high, and I’m trying to understand how this department is working to get this number down and to be reflective, truly, of what’s considered reasonable and representative of the population, not 88 percent, which is significantly high.
As I’ve indicated earlier, diversion is just one tool in our arsenal, and it is proving to be effective in many ways. We’ve got statistics from other jurisdictions that have done some analysis on recidivism and they’re seeing positive responses there. As far as what we have as an actual analysis of diversion only, I don’t have that information, but I will commit to looking at the department getting some information on recidivism with respect to diversions that we’ve done.
But I have to say, once again, we have to deal with the root causes of crime in the Northwest Territories, and as I indicated earlier in my Ministerial statement, poverty is truly an issue here in the Northwest Territories that is driving crime rates. We need to work as an Assembly, and as all people in the Northwest Territories, to battle and combat poverty, which means we have to find jobs, we have to deal with housing, we have to deal with health, we have to deal with mental health and addictions. We, as a government, both sides of this House, are doing that work, and we need to continue to do that work to help reduce crime rates here in the Northwest Territories.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to follow up on Minister Ramsay’s statement today on the Alcohol Ignition Interlock Program. This is something that I had pursued awhile back on behalf of a constituent. I’m just a bit curious about something. The idea of an Ignition Interlock Program and system on vehicles the Minister says will make our roads safer. I’m assuming that these devices would be available to people who would otherwise have their licences suspended and wouldn’t be driving on the road at all. I’m curious about this, because, well, some people in our society and in our communities feel that when people have their driver’s licence suspended for abusing alcohol while behind the wheel, or drinking to over the limit and then getting behind the wheel of a vehicle, should be punished. How does this make our roads safer? That’s what I want to know.
Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The Minister of Transportation, Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a proven program across the country. Any time you can keep somebody from getting behind the wheel that has been drinking, it’s a step in the right direction. As I mentioned in my Minister’s statement, the Northwest Territories and the Yukon have the highest incidence of drunk driving across the country, so it’s a step in the right direction. It’s not going to keep every drunk driver off the road but it will improve our statistics.
People that would be eligible to have these devices on their vehicle are people who have been charged with impaired driving who would otherwise be banned from driving, but now they can drive as long as they have this device on there. It’s a convenience for them?
It would be a way for them to get their licence back a little bit early, and it would be very beneficial for somebody whose livelihood depended on them driving. It’s been used in work vehicles that allow somebody to get back to work if they’re supporting a family. That’s what it’s intended to do.
The cost per month, $125 per month, I’d like to know, does that cost per device per person using it per vehicle, $125 a month, is that the entire cost of administering this program by our government? Is that intended to recover the cost?
That cost is an individual’s cost on a per month basis. It’s $125. I committed to getting all the costs associated with establishing the program here in the Northwest Territories to MLA Bouchard, and I will share that with other Members of the House.
I think it would be good if whatever the cost is for having this device to allow people to drive when they’ve been already charged with impaired driving, I think that it should be full cost recovery on this. As a taxpayer, I’m not really interested in subsidizing my tax dollars to enable people to drive when they’ve been charged with impaired driving.
These devices need to be calibrated, monitored, installed. There are all kinds of mechanical aspects associated with them. Where does the Minister propose those services be procured?
We’re working with some service providers here in the Northwest Territories that have the knowledge and the expertise to service the equipment, and we hope to move forward with a contract to allow them to work on the Ignition Interlock System here in the Northwest Territories, and they will be from the Northwest Territories.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise here today to congratulate the Minister of Transportation on his Alcohol Ignition Interlock Program. I have some questions around this program. In just doing a quick search on the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety, which is a Canadian site, it cites some of the workplaces that should look at and help those who are definitely dealing with a substance issue. As the Minister cited, it is an effort to make our roads safer. Has the department looked at actually installing these devices in some of our own Department of Transportation vehicles?
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. The Minister of Transportation, Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ve had that very discussion with our staff and, yes, we have given that some consideration.
I’m encouraged by what I’m hearing here today. Can the Minister elaborate if there’s going to be a test pilot of this program in the near future?
The program will start being piloted in Yellowknife and in Hay River.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The Member for the Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the research I’ve been given in regard to the alcohol that’s been increasing in the Sahtu, I want to just ask the Minister of Health and Social Services. In Norman Wells, the percentage of alcohol-related calls for service – and this is by the Department of Justice – in 2009 was 23 percent; in 2012 it was 52 percent. In Tulita it was 20 percent in 2009; 2012, it was 47 percent.
You see the increase of alcohol because of a number of factors. I think, myself, we believe that the Norman Wells liquor store has lifted the unrestricted sales of liquor there. I want to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services, how do we start working to deal with this issue. We have the information from the RCMP in regard to community wellness plans and getting that on the ground. Are we providing them with sufficient support and resources to get these plans off the ground and on the land?
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The Minister of Health, Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The plan for the Sahtu, in as far as the extra workload given to or, I guess, distributed to the alcohol workers and also even the medical staff, the nurses and that, has been, at this time, for the CEO out of Norman Wells to work with those two communities specifically, and also monitoring the other communities, was to monitor those two communities closely, and if at any time there was a requirement for additional health personnel like clinicians or any mental wellness personnel, I guess, community wellness workers, then there would be a call for it. Then we would go work with, and as we, I mean the Department of Health and Social Services will work with the Sahtu Health and Social Services to provide assistance to the communities if they are overloaded as a result of the extra alcohol going into the communities.
Mr. Speaker, again, going back to the numbers I have been given, in Fort Good Hope the alcohol-related occurrences in 2009 was 238. In Fort Good Hope in 2012 it was 681, and Deline was 23 in 2009 and 319 in 2012. In regard to the increase of the alcohol occurrences by the RCMP, people are drinking quite a lot and they get more calls.
With the Minister’s support and his leadership, will the he start looking at some solid programs, working with the Department of Justice and other agencies, to say that we have a problem here, Houston? What do we need to do to get the money into our communities to start dealing with our communities? Is that somewhere in his plans in this year’s budget?
Mr. Speaker, yes, it is in our plans to try to address the issues that are stemming from addictions in all of the communities right across the territory. That is built into our Mental Health and Addictions Action Plan. It’s part of the mandate of the Minister’s Forum on Addictions and Community Wellness. As they travel around, they are to get enough information and ideas from the communities to be able to develop a solution. By May 1st we are hoping that we can have the report completed. We’re looking to address this probably region by region and even community by community. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, while I was at the Sahtu Dene Council annual general meeting, people were asking me. We need to have some solid programs on the land in the Sahtu. Because of the increase of the alcohol in the Sahtu and the lifting of the Norman Wells liquor store to unrestricted sales, I have been personally told that people are buying more than they’re allowed to once they come into our communities.
Because the Nats’ejee K’eh is at a 40 percent occupancy rate, we have some money. Can the Minister look at that budget and say we are going to shift some of that money to help our people elsewhere where there is an increase in alcohol?
Mr. Speaker, earlier as I was responding to another Member, I had indicated that the department had put in about $850,000 over the last couple fiscal years to try to address the issues. Also, the department continues to allow communities to access on-the-land programs. What has happened is several of the communities have taken advantage of the program. Deline and Tulita are two of the communities that took advantage of the on-the-land program and put proposals in for and utilize their full budget of $25,000 in both communities and did some on-the-land work. We are hoping to expand that program and increase the amount that goes to the communities. We are anticipating that, because each time we talk informally to the Minister’s Forum members, they speak of on-the-land program as one of the things that comes up constantly at the community level. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.
Mr. Speaker, once again I ask the Minister that, because of the occupancy rate is at 46 percent level at Nats’ejee K’eh, there are some dollars, I believe, left. Given that the report will be done some time next year, I think that the implementation of those recommendations that are rolled out later on, can the Minister look at communities down the Mackenzie Valley to say, yes, we have these additional dollars? We appreciate the money that is going into the Sahtu. We would like a little more to really help our people. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the Member is correct; we are spending $2.2 million in Nats’ejee K’eh and we are operating at a bit below 50 percent occupancy. We want to look at Nats’ejee K’eh as part of a spectrum of treatment opportunities or treatment options that will be provided to the people of the NWT.
Having said that, what we are doing with the one treatment centre that we do have in place is we are again removing Nats’ejee K’eh from Deh Cho Health and Social Services. We are going to have some discussions with the reserve, of course, where Nats’ejee K’eh sits. That will be directly run through the Department of Health and Social Services to try to improve the amount of people or the rate that individuals that are going in there to try to increase the capacity and change it so that we’re trying to provide more of an educational portion to the treatment centre so, like I said, it becomes part of the overall spectrum of treatment. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you for noticing there, Mr. Speaker. My questions once again will be to the Minister of Justice. Earlier today my colleague Mr. Moses had asked, are treatment programs such as alcohol and drug treatment programs mandatory. I believe his answer was no. I am going to turn the question around and say, what would it take for the Department of Justice to make treatment programs such as alcohol and drug treatment mandatory.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister of Justice, Mr. Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated previously, what we’re interested in doing is working with inmates and people in the Northwest Territories who are ready. If an inmate isn’t ready for healing, if they aren’t ready to go through treatment, forcing treatment on them will have no results.
We have great case workers. We have a great case management team who will sit down with our inmates when they come into the facility, identify their needs and will work with them to encourage them to take the program, to take that healing journey, if you will. To force them is not going to work. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, that’s a bold statement by saying forcing them will not work. Maybe the Minister of Justice can clarify for the House where that reference and where the strength of that statement comes from. He must have some information reference expert that says, when you are locked up for two years less a day, of course, and you have nothing to do, that forced alcohol treatment… I’m talking about court-ordered treatment, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, if it’s court ordered, then it would be required, but to force an inmate who hasn’t had a direct order to participate in alcohol and drug treatment programming would be against the Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms, so we would not be forcing people to do something that they are unwilling to do unless it was court ordered. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I guess the notwithstanding clause does not apply to us on this one. I can tell you first hand, when I worked in the correction centre as a corrections officer and certainly in many roles that I had worked there, a lot of inmates had mental health problems. What type of options, treatments and assessments are provided to inmates who are incarcerated? Furthermore, is there any follow-up provided to these particular inmates or are they simply just let go once they’re free? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, I have already listed off a significant number of the programs that are available to our inmates, including the programs in some of our specific facilities. We have the facility in Fort Smith for adult males, which is actually set up for individuals who are having or experiencing cognitive challenges or other addictions issues. There is some specific programming there. We have specific programming at SMCC, which I listed earlier, as well, which was a result of good work done by the committee with us to put in that programming in Hay River. There are a number of programs there.
As far as transition, as an inmate completes their term or their sentence, they are dealing with a one-on-one case manager who is helping identify the programming needs that they have. As they are transitioning out, we have a program that works with probation officers outside in their home communities or in their home regions that will help with the transition. It will identify programs that are available to them within the region or community that they happen to live, at which point probation will take over that file and work with them to make sure that they’re meeting the terms and conditions of the probation and getting the programming that has been identified for them. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. How often is court-ordered treatment offered to inmates is not necessarily but as a direction that go to prison? Thank you.
Thank you. I’m not certain how often it is actually ordered within the justice system by a judge, who is a separate branch or arm of government. But I will go to the department and I will try to get that information for the Member. Thank you.
