All departments on all initiatives we consult and consult and consult with the residents of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.
I don’t believe that that is so, and that was said, of course, for eons about consulting with Aboriginal people. Fortunately, there’s good law for Aboriginal people and we are now finally responding in a responsible way to capture the input of Aboriginal residents. Unfortunately, we don’t have that same law, although we have the same obligation for those who are not Aboriginal residents.
So, would the Premier take this on to establish a division or some equivalent mechanism to ensure that we do, in fact, fulfill our moral obligations in the absence of a law to consult with the residents of the Northwest Territories, which we are not doing now? Mahsi.
I’d like to remind the Member that this is the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and we do, in my mind, consult on a regular basis with non-Aboriginal people and we fulfill all of the requirements of this government in that regard. Thank you.
I’ll equally remind the Premier that this is the business of public government, which is the business of all residents of the Northwest Territories.
My second question has to do with the direction, I believe the division leads the development and review of negotiating mandates that guide GNWT negotiating teams at all land, resources and self-government negotiations, according to the document. We have a couple of unsettled land claim areas where we don’t seem to be making progress, and that has been true for quite a while, at least very minimal progress. I know the Premier would like to see advancement in those areas, as we all would.
What is being done to try and deal with those sorts of things in new and innovative ways if we’re not able to make any progress with our current approach? Is there any room for creative thinking there, or is it just such a fundamental brick wall that we have to wait until there’s a little crumbling in that brick wall before we can make any progress? Thank you.
Thank you. We have tried to find new and innovative ways to break down some of those walls. We’ve tried bilateral negotiations, for example, with the Dehcho First Nations where we had a working group of senior officials to try to resolve some very long-outstanding land issues. We thought that we had made good progress because the senior officials were able to resolve almost all of the outstanding issues, but at the 11th hour they were all rejected out of hand. But I think at least we’ve had some good dialogue and I think a much better understanding between both governments. We’ve also kept the Government of Canada in the loop and we were looking to try something similar with the Akaitcho Government. We’ve had some initial discussions, but they haven’t advanced as far as we were able to go with the Dehcho First Nations where our Senior Officials Working Group met on a regular basis for almost two years to allow us to have a better understanding from both governments. Thank you.
Thanks to the Premier. I really don’t have any more questions. I’m not suggesting that that’s an easy one to make progress on. I’ve got almost a lifetime of experience watching the difficult issues trying to be resolved, and yet, unsuccessfully. I think it’s good every once in a while to have that discussion and see where we’re at and see if there’s anything else we can do. I’ll leave it at that. Thank you.
HON. BOB MCLEOD:
Thank you, Premier McLeod. Next on my list is Mr. Nadli.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a couple of general comments, but more likely leading up to some questions as well. But for the most part I think the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs might understand where I might be coming from today, because we had such a large group today. Just touching base with some of the leaders, there’s some renewed optimism that things could be salvaged, things could be made possible in terms of at least realizing a dream for some of us, the conclusion of land claims and self-government arrangements, especially with the regions that haven’t settled yet, including the Dehcho First Nations and Akaitcho.
But before I get there, I am kind of reminded of our responsibility for working with the GNWT, plus the working relationship with the federal government and just the long history of First Nations’ rights in the NWT. I think the leadership of the day, back in the ‘60s, the ‘50s, had a large part in defining Aboriginal rights through the treaty entitlement across Canada and it continues today. There have been legal precedents and, at the same time, jurisprudence on First Nations’ rights and especially harvesting rights. It’s very clear in terms of how it is defined through the federal courts plus the provincial and territorial courts.
My question is: What is this department doing in terms of trying to heed? I know we’ve come a long ways in working to establish a very good constructive working relationship with First Nations, yet with the increased responsibility of devolution, this government has to have a clear mandate in terms of regulating. Plus, in terms of its policy, in terms of the general laws of application, that despite perhaps one group’s clear defined rights within the federal Constitution of Canada there are still policies and regulations that need to be applied. I’m speaking in terms of harvesting rights, in terms of wildlife, whether it’s wildlife in terms of caribou, or else harvesting rights and whether it pertains to forestry and a person has to go in the bush and cut some wood to heat their homes or to put food on the table. Perhaps it would be beyond the scope of the Minister to comment but, I mean, I would like to understand how it is that we’re trying to make the best of possible situations and go forward and be constructive and try to at least maintain good, positive working relationships but, at the same time, ensuring that things are done in a constructive manner.
Basically, what I’m getting at is: Has this government taken on a policy shift in light of devolution, or are we still maintaining perhaps the status quo of trying to at least maintain a good working relationship with First Nations? Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Premier McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. In my estimation, there’s been no policy shift. We continue to work at having good working relationships with Aboriginal governments. If anything, we’ve taken on additional responsibilities in a number of areas. I think also some of the recent court decisions with regards to Aboriginal treaty rights and harvesting certainly have clarified a lot of the case law in those areas. I think the best example I can use is the development of the legislation for the Wildlife Act, where we shared with all of the Aboriginal governments to make sure all of the provisions of their land claims and treaties were followed. I still feel the Northwest Territories shows the rest of Canada the way in all these areas when it comes to recognizing Aboriginal and treaty rights when it comes to harvesting and the right to hunt for food. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I think this government has a long history of a very good written relationship with First Nations. Recent efforts to try to move forward are really commendable in terms of some of the leaps and bounds we have made thus far. My hope is there could be greater efforts to at least bring on board the remaining outstanding regions that have unsettled land claims. That’s the Tlicho and Dehcho First Nations.
I understand the Premier has committed to meeting with the Dehcho First Nations. He stated recent offers between DFN and the GNWT have been rejected. I’m inclined to ask why those offers were rejected, but I think from here on I am hoping that dialogue will continue and all efforts will be exhausted to try to bring all parties back to the table and a greater effort in trying to reach some creative solutions.
I know it’s challenging. We’ve been at the table before. It’s ensuring the leaders of the day have clear direction given to their staff and the staff follow up to ensure what the leaders envision as agreements are realized. I’m hoping the few days we have before us will be very constructive. Just a comment, but the Premier might want to respond. Mahsi.
That’s our hope too. We have 280 days left in our mandate and certainly that would be something we are aspiring to, if we can reach some sort of agreement before the end of our term, the 17th Legislative Assembly. That’s what we aspire to. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Next on my list I have Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a couple of comments. First of all, the contribution of dollars going into the Indspire Awards. I think it’s a very beneficial program and one way that this government supports non-government organizations that recognizes our Aboriginal Northerners that are doing great work in the North and even across the country. We have had some Northerners that were recognized under this program.
Also, I just want to acknowledge the ongoing support for the Women’s Advisory, which we just witnessed here last week with the Campaign School. I think that was something that this government is supporting these non-government organizations to do good work on behalf of government. I’ve mentioned in this House before about working with non-government organizations to do this.
That leads me into my only question in this area. We see one of the highlights proposed in these estimates is $25,000 in forced growth to increase the level of core funding provided to the Status of Women Council and the Native Women’s Association, and I think this is the first time I’ve ever seen one where it’s highlighted that we’re increasing core funding for a non-government organization. Is this a common practice with this government across all departments, that we work with non-government organizations, and if it is, how many times or how often do we go through the review process? How many years before we look at the forced growth to offset it?
I had questions earlier today about daycare facilities and 2007 was the last time we looked at revising that funding policy. Sure enough, in time, over the eight years, there has to be some forced growth. I just want to know how often this is reviewed and if it’s going to be a common practice within this government, because we do have a lot of great non-government organizations that do excellent work on behalf of government for the people of the Northwest Territories. Is this a common practice across government and is this something we can expect to see as we move forward with all departments?
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Premier McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The government has what they call the Third-Party Accountability Framework where they review the funding, which is, generally, there are three categories of NGOs that they deal with. In this case, I’d say this is more of like a one-off situation because, from what I could see, the Status of Women Council and the Native Women’s Association of the Northwest Territories had never received any increase for a long period of time. I’ll ask, through you, Mr. Chair, Mr. Robertson to give a little more detail as to how we were able to come up with $25,000 in this difficult financial period.
Thank you, Premier McLeod. Director Robertson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As the Premier stated, through the Third-Party Accountability Framework we applied that against the core funding that these two organizations actually rely heavily on government to maintain their operations. This money goes towards covering their operating costs as well as their core group of employees. The forced growth was focused more on the salary equivalency. If they hadn’t received any changes in their compensation of benefit budgets for, I believe, three years, this was actually just to try to give them some level of growth to be able to attract and retain their employees. The breakdown was $15,000 to the Status of Women Council and $10,000 goes towards the Native Women’s Association.
Thank you, Mr. Robertson. Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just following up on that, who initiates the practice? Is it the department that goes to these organizations and seeks this information and whether or not we have to increase the salaries or the core funding to this group, or is it a request brought forth by the non-government organization to initiate the process and that review and make the necessary changes?
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Premier McLeod.
Thank you. The Third-Party Accountability Framework is a government policy framework, and generally it’s up to individual departments to apply it. In this way there is consistency across the government, and if there is an NGO, I guess they deal with individual departments.
Just more of kind of like an education awareness little dialogue here. It’s good to know, because we do, as Members, get approached by a lot of NGOs about core funding, about operations, about salaries, things of that nature. So in terms of how it’s being developed, I know looking at the avenues moving forward. Just more of a comment and I’m glad to see that this department has increased the forced growth for these two organizations, because as NGOs it is pretty tough to do business out there sometimes. I’m glad to see that this department has taken that initiative and worked with these two groups that are doing really good work.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. I’ll take that as a comment. Next on my list I have Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to first of all congratulate the department here for actively taking, as it says in the last bullet, a prominent role on the national front on some very important issues to people in the Northwest Territories and certainly to people in my riding, and that the Government of the Northwest Territories, through the Minister here, is taking on the national spotlight as to the issues that we have to deal with and we have been partners across Canada. I want to say congratulations. Even though we are considered a small government, we carry a big punch sometimes, and that’s good because that’s the uniqueness, as the Minister says. We’re a very unique style of government. When you look through the jurisdictions across Canada, with 40-some thousand people, 42,000 with a budget of $1.8 billion, it’s not very much when you look at it compared to BC’s or Ontario’s budgets. Their transportation budgets beat ours how many times over, and Alberta. Yet, we’re very unique. I want to say congratulations to the Minister and his staff on this important role that he is going to play with the working group and that we’re bringing that uniqueness, and that I want to say that guidance, to what needs to be happening.
The Premier was just talking to my colleague Mr. Moses, and the budget for the Status of Women and the Native Women’s Association is shocking to hear that it’s been three years without them having any type of increase. That’s not good. We need to support these two organizations that have to deal with the role that the Premier is going to be playing on the national front. I look at the budget and I know we can’t increase the budget. I think it should be more than what you guys had in there. It’s not my job though. Your department is very specific in terms of its very uniqueness. It’s a unique department because it deals with Aboriginal rights set by the Constitution of Canada. You’re negotiating new treaties or implementing new treaty clauses in the Northwest Territories. It’s very unique. And that’s all you’re asking for with the amount of work that you’re doing? This is the Aboriginal…(inaudible)… This is big time here. I’m shocked, because what you’re saying here, the bilateral agreements, the cooperation agreements, we have in Canada special rights for Aboriginal people based on history. You can do a history course if you want, but it’s in the Northwest Territories.
My question is in regard to the Intergovernmental Council, the forum, and the unique interests and challenges that we have with Aboriginal governments. These are written, living documents. We write our documents. This Intergovernmental Forum, is this something that the Premier foresees will be continued on in the new government in this forum here? For myself, what are the unique interests that we have and the challenges for Aboriginal governments to come into force? I want to ask that question.
The other one is: Do we have the support from this department here to work with all the other departments on – it says on page 1 of 2, the second bullet – the appropriate leadership to support as available to all the departments in fulfilling the Government of the Northwest Territories’ objective to strengthen and maintain the relationship. Do we have it, if we were to support the Department of Transportation, ENR and suffer because of negotiations? Some are being negotiated and some of the negotiations are completed and working on implementation. I don’t know how many staff members you have for $9 million that’s in the budget here. But I’m thinking that it’s because you have a big department, and I’m supporting this department if you get it now. I’m supporting the department and I’m saying that it’s really important, really important.
You know what, Mr. Chair? From where the Aboriginal people have been in the past to where they are now, it’s incredible if you look at how far they have advanced their cause and their assertion to their rightful place in Canada and the uniqueness of being in with the Government of the Northwest Territories and in trying to fit in the mosaic of the Canadian Constitution. We had several court cases that ruled in favour of the Aboriginal people. I even asked some of the Ministers what does it mean because of these court cases. That’s what I’m saying.
I just wanted to let the Minister know that do we feel comfortable that, yes, the other departments are getting the support they need from this department here. Are we running thin or are we okay? Are we doing justice to our Aboriginal governments in the Northwest Territories? I want to let the Minister know that the work that’s being done in our communities, I’ve been receiving updates on the quarterly reports from the negotiations that have been happening in the Sahtu in regards to what’s happening with our claim and our new treaty.
I just wanted to say in closing with the time that I have, that one leader in Tulita was a good reminder. That leader in Tulita that told me that we can’t always be fighting the territorial government. That’s what he told me. He said that we have to work with them. As the elders have said in the past, we have to work with the government. We could agree to disagree, but we still need to work. I wanted to say that’s what we have to keep telling our young.
With the Aboriginal Affairs, are you working closely with the education system or Aboriginal governments in bringing in living treaties now that are called land claims into our education system and is part of their core curriculum?
I want to leave it at that in giving the Minister and staff kudos, because you have a very important department. It’s with another nation of government and they’re building that nation of government. I think I will leave it at that.
As Mr. Moses said, I think that the Indspire Awards should be looked at also in the Northwest Territories. Not just on a national front but we should look at it territorially again as a discussion, because we would do it. Let’s look at something ahead that we can use to inspire our young people to do good things for everybody in the North here. Mahsi cho.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Premier McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just some of the comments that were raised, the Intergovernmental Council we see as a very important forum for the Government of the Northwest Territories to work with Aboriginal governments that have signed on to devolution and that have their own land, so it allows us to collaborate and coordinate.
The land claims are part of our curriculum in the high schools. The Indspire Awards are very inspirational to see successful Aboriginal people in all walks of life. The Aboriginal relations and consultation division is something that used to be housed in Justice and has now been moved to Aboriginal Affairs. I think we’ve expanded it. We just completed staffing the unit and we think it will be very helpful for dealing with coordinating Aboriginal rights and treaty rights, working with all of the departments.
Through you, Mr. Chair, I would like to ask Mr. Goldney to go into a little more detail about that division. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Premier McLeod. Deputy Minister Goldney.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Premier mentioned the new division that is reflected in the budget. We are calling it Aboriginal consultation and relations division. One of the primary functions for this division, not only will it support our ongoing intergovernmental work in relationship building and the task that we have to strengthen relations with Aboriginal governments and formalize those relations but it will also help – and we see it helping – coordinate some of the work across departments internally.
The Member asked how well we are supported to do that work. Many of the departments engage with Aboriginal governments in their subject matters directly and have people on their staff tasked with doing some of that engagement. We see an opportunity here to build a bit of a community of practice among our personnel across our departments. This will be coordinated through the work of this director, so we are very much looking forward to continuing to strengthen those relationships and build those ties, not just externally but internally across our organization as well.
Thank you, deputy minister. Next on my list I have Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a couple of questions here. Mr. Moses has already referenced the increase to the Native Women’s Association and to the Status of Women Council of the NWT. I’m glad to see that a couple of organizations which do work outside of government have been given an increase. I gather that it’s up to each organization within each department to kind of scream and holler for money, and that’s unfortunate. I would urge the Minister, as Premier, to look across government and maybe set something in place so that organizations are evaluated more often than every five years and that increases for all NGOs or all non-profit groups are looked at every two years, say, and increases granted if they are justified.
I wanted to just ask in regards to the women’s advisory unit hard on the heels of the very successful Women’s Campaign School this past weekend. I suspect it’s not in this budget, but I wonder if there’s any inclination on the part of government to fund, whether it is Status of Women Council or another organization, specifically a campaign school on an annual basis. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Premier McLeod.
Thank you. When I floated the idea over the past couple of months, there was very little support for it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I guess I’d like to know from the Minister who the idea was floated with and how far and wide did he ask. Thank you.
It was floated by all of the MLAs, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair, I guess I missed that conversation. I don’t remember being asked what I thought. I guess I would suggest to the Minister that we need to go a little further afield than just MLAs when we’re getting input on whether or not a campaign school should be held more often.
My second question has to do with page 34 where it references a review of negotiating mandates. One of the things that have concerned me for a while is the position of the federal government with regard to funding of not negotiations, but funding of the agreements. They have a policy called Fiscal Harmonization Initiative. I would like to know from the Premier whether there has been any determination by the federal government. Is this something that is in place now or is the federal government still sitting and waiting? If this is in place, how is it impacting us and how do we fund agreements once they’re reached? Thank you.
This is a concern to us. We have been modelling the self-government agreements. Potentially if all of the seven self-government agreements were in place, we anticipate there would be a very severe shortfall to pay for self-government. Obviously, the Government of Canada has a different point of view. They see self-government as reducing their costs and we have pointed out to them where we expect there is a significant shortfall. They have indicated they are reviewing it and they’ve been reviewing it for some time now without any substantial change in their policies. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to the Minister for that. I’m glad the government is continuing to fight against the federal government on this particular situation. It is going to have a very large impact on our finances if we don’t get some solution to where the federal government wants to go and where we feel we need to go. Just a comment. I urge the Minister and his department to keep fighting the federal government on this Fiscal Harmonization Initiative. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Premier McLeod, any comment?
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are going to continue to push on this one. We are also making sure the Aboriginal governments are aware of it, to see if we can, together, push on this very important matter. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Premier McLeod. No further comments, Ms. Bisaro?
Thank you. We are on page 35, corporate management, operations expenditure summary, $4.018 million.
Agreed.
Page 36, corporate management, grants, contributions and transfers, total grants and contributions, $1.205 million.
Agreed.
Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to get a breakdown just to confirm the core funding to the Metis locals. Can I get a breakdown on what exactly the Metis councils are getting?
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Premier McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. They get $13,000 a year in core funding, Mr. Chair. Sorry, Mr. Chair. Since then, we’ve done a review and increased it to $20,000 in core funding for Metis locals.
