Thank you, Madam Chair. The contracts in Yellowknife don’t come into effect until September, so we won’t see any actuals until probably the end of the fiscal year by the time they go into business and we start seeing what the numbers true up to be.
I appreciate the information that this was effective September. I’m assuming September of 2014, I would assume, and it’s not in effect now? Or is it in effect in 2015?
It’s September 2015. This coming September.
Again, the confusion on this file in terms of when these are going to be activating from private to consignment. To my question which still remains, there is going to be a significant shift happening in September of 2015, in terms of the overall model, 50 percent of our population, 50 percent of our inventory goes from private to consignment. What will the department do in order to make this seamless so that they can at least communicate that change to Members?
We’ve been working extensively on this. There is projected to be some savings to the consumers in Yellowknife, and we’ll track all the liquor that goes through and all the money that’s made and we’ll be prepared to report back to committee after September when things kick into gear and we start getting some actuals to look at.
I just want to make sure that I don’t mask savings with responsibility of accounting. I want to make sure that the accounting does make sense. I represent one of those liquor stores in my riding that is gravely affected by this change. I want to make sure that there is no disruption in service. I want to make sure that this business is duly protected under this new model and that I don’t want to see any undue hardship, financial or otherwise, being put on this business and including the business in the downtown. Again, I received a commitment that there will be some information sharing and I’m hoping that the department works closely and unilaterally with the proponents who are going to have a significant change to their business model.
Again, to the question, what is the government doing to help shepherd these businesses through this change over the next couple months?
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Kalgutkar.
Thank you, Madam Chair. One of the reasons we’re delaying the implementation to September is to exactly do that. We’re working with both stores to make sure a very smooth transition to the consignment store model. As the Member could likely guess, if the transition is run poorly, the first folks that we’ll hear from are the public in Yellowknife.
Because this is a completely different change of business model, should there be a dispute arising with respect to the transformation and change forthcoming to the businesses in question, does the government have any type of dispute system, third-party adjudicator or any type of arbitrator that would be used in the event that there is an issue in this transformation?
If the dispute is between the actual implementation of the contract, then I would assume that it would be our procurement services unit that would help address any issues that we had with the interpretation of that contract. In terms of the actual transition from the private store model to the consignment store model, it would be the Liquor Commission that handles that process.
The government has used, in the past, tools such as the Fairness Commissioner to help mitigate very significant RFPs and most recently the issue with the medevac program. What safeguards do we have for these businesses that we’ll have a degree of fairness? Again, they’re working with big brother, they’re dealing with big brother and they’re at the mercy of big brother. What tools do they have to make sure that big brother is playing nice in the sandbox?
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Minister Miltenberger.
I’m not sure what type of problems the Member is anticipating. We shifted over fuel operations. This is a fairly routine piece of business. Contracts have been let. We’re in the process of changing to a consignment model and Mr. Kalgutkar has laid out the process. If there is something dramatic that happens that is totally unanticipated, we’ll deal with it. Fairness commissioners, adjudicators, gives this a level far in excess of something of this nature would justify.
If I can be as bold as saying it may be routine for the government to do these types of transformations, this is not routine for well-established businesses, businesses that have been in business for not just a couple of years but for, in some cases, a decade or two. I just want to make sure there’s fairness built in, there’s transparency built in and there’s the ability that if there is a dispute that we do have the mechanisms and the measures in place that these businesses can and have access to other than an MLA knocking on the door of Finance.
I guess my last question is: Even though we don’t anticipate any disputes, is the department prepared to have some form of dispute resolution in place in the event that it would be challenged? Again, routine is only subject to the subject matter. In this case here, we have two businesses in question that are completely and utterly changing their business model 100 percent. So, I want to make sure that they’re well taken care of. There are employees there and I want to make sure they’re taken care of, and I want to make sure it is also seamless for the people that product line serves. Will the government at least grant some form of comfort, knowing that there’s something there other than it should be fine and it’s routine as usual? Thank you.
My understanding is the successful proponents in both of these cases could be run under the consignment model and they are reverting to a model that they have long experience with. We have consignment stores running across the land. Once again, we believe we have the capacity, where the systems are set up, with enough checks and balances and accountability to address the issues that the Member has raised. The issue or the concerns that should something go wrong that is totally unanticipated in all the processes and structures and consignment models that we now run, we have the ability to sort those through should the need arise in these two cases. Thank you.
Madam Chair, I have no further questions.
Thank you. Next I have Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Madam Chair. If I can just get one question in, if the Minister would provide me some detail on. Hard copy would be fine. I wanted to ask about the gross profits from the sale of the liquor, on page 176. It’s a good business. I wanted to ask, from this number here, have they seen an increase again in the Sahtu region with the gross sale? That’s the only question I have.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Aumond.
Thank you, Madam Chair. In the Sahtu, we are actually projecting for the coming year to have a slight decrease in the amount of sales from the previous year. While we did see an increase from ‘12-13 to ‘13-14, we are looking at our projection based upon what we’ve seeing in ‘14-15, this current year, a 6 percent decrease in sales from ‘13-14 to ‘14-15. Thank you.
Thank you. Page 176, Liquor Revolving Fund, information item. Agreed?
Agreed.
Thank you. Liquor Revolving Fund, active positions, information item. Any questions?
Agreed.
None. Could we please return back to page 147, Finance, total department, $211.262 million. Mr. Dolynny.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I will be brief. This question was brought up in my general comments. Unfortunately, it didn’t get a response to this. There was a significant change in the amount of expenditures from what this process incurred back in the fall to what we see today. Again, without being able to table a number or share a number, that change is just over 2 percent. So there were significant changes in the amount of expenditure line in the Department of Finance in a very short period of time between what was discussed in committee and what was tabled here just recently.
Can the department indicate if this is a common occurrence where we would see such a fluctuation in terms of when this committee did our due diligence on this a few months ago to what was being tabled? I find that to be quite a significant departure. Again, I’m being very careful. I know the other numbers aren’t before the House, but they were before committee and they are significant changes. If I can maybe get a rationalization. What didn’t we know back then to what we know now?
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Kalgutkar.
Thank you, Madam Chair. One of the biggest changes that happened between business plans and the finalization of the main estimates is we actually got some more certain numbers of what our resource revenues were going to be. Because we had a better understanding what our resource revenues were going to be, we were actually able to determine what the net fiscal benefit was going to be. One of the major adjustments that we made between that time was the $7.3 million increase to the Heritage Fund, which is really driving some of that increase that the Member is talking about. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Kalgutkar. Department of Finance, department total, $211.262 million.
Agreed.
Agreed. Thank you. Does committee agree that consideration of the Department of Finance is now completed?
Agreed.
Agreed. Thank you. I would like to thank Minister Miltenberger and his witnesses. I will ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort them from the Chamber.
I will now recognize the clock and rise and report progress. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your committee has been considering Tabled Document 188-17(5), NWT Main Estimates 2015-2016, and would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you. Do we have a seconder to the motion? Mr. Ramsay.
---Carried
Orders of the day for Tuesday, February 17, 2015, at 1:30 p.m.:
Prayer
Ministers’ Statements
Members’ Statements
Returns to Oral Questions
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Acknowledgements
Oral Questions
Written Questions
Returns to Written Questions
Replies to Opening Address
Replies to Budget Address
Petitions
Reports of Standing and Special Committees
Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
Tabling of Documents
Notices of Motion
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
Motions
Motion 34-17(5), Workplace Safety at Stanton Territorial Hospital
First Reading of Bills
Second Reading of Bills
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bill 38, An Act to Amend the Jury Act
Bill 41, An Act to Amend the Partnership Act
Tabled Document 188-17(5), NWT Main Estimates 2015-2016
Committee Report 10-17(5), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the 2013-2014 Annual Report of the Information and Privacy Commissioner of the Northwest Territories
Report of Committee of the Whole
Third Reading of Bills
Orders of the Day
Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Tuesday, February 17th, at 1:30 p.m.
---ADJOURNMENT
The House adjourned at 6:04 p.m.
