Thank you, Mr. Speaker. New legislation would be required to establish a lobbyist registry. In other jurisdictions where lobbyist legislation exists, the responsibility for managing a lobbyist registry is usually assigned in that legislation to an offer of the Legislature. For example, in Alberta, the lobbyist registry falls under the purview of the Ethics Councillor; the Government of Canada has a Commissioner of Lobbying.
We certainly agree that transparency is important and there’s no reason why the public should not know with whom Ministers are meeting and why. That information is available now upon request. There is nothing to hide. To date, we have not received any such requests. Ministers meet regularly with representatives of all sectors. I can state with certainty that we met with representatives of Aboriginal governments and non-government organizations far more frequently than we do with paid lobbyists. In fact, the number of paid lobbyists active in the Northwest Territories that would meet the definition of lobbyist in federal and most provincial legislation can be counted on the fingers of one hand. The old adage of making a mountain out of a molehill comes to mind.
Nevertheless, this government is not opposed to exploring the question of whether or not a lobbyist registry should be established. However, given the small number of paid lobbyists in the Northwest Territories, the infrequency of their meetings with Ministers and the lack of time remaining in the term to develop new legislation and identify resources to establish the registry, we suggest that this matter be referred to the next Assembly for their consideration.
The government will be abstaining from voting on the motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. To the motion. Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First off, it’s often tradition that we thank the mover and the seconder. I think it certainly deserves that in these circumstances. How they came up with the idea of a lobbyist registry I don’t know, but I think it’s a good one and certainly one that deserves exploring.
Just because we wouldn’t use it often doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be important, and just because you wouldn’t use it often doesn’t mean it couldn’t have a large impact. We’ve often heard about how the influences of lobbyists play on big contracts getting opportunities that most folks don’t know. We don’t know if that’s the case here. I’m not implying that’s the case in any way. I’m just saying we have always heard about these things. You see the mess in the United States, Canada and across the world about what lobbyists can and cannot do and you wonder: Will the Northwest Territories ever come to a time where these are the types of problems we will have to face?
I do strongly believe there is a role for lobbyists in the world. Some organizations, both big and small, just don’t have the skills, abilities, time and knowledge of where to take your particular matter. Sometimes matters are so important they know that they’re not the right person to sell it. It’s an idea of importance, great importance, but it’s important that the idea gets out there and gets to the right doorsteps to be heard.
We’ve seen this building and we have to be honest with ourselves that we’ve seen people leave this building and have had unprecedented access with respect to bringing forward ideas and issues, Mr. Speaker. What influence have they had on the results? We just don’t know and it would be difficult to characterize it other than a question.
Some people still play a role on the future of this government and the future, future governments. Where does that role start? Where does it end? It has been already said, and I fully agree, that transparency and fairness is really what this is all about. In my opinion, honestly, it doesn’t go far enough. I think every Member should be accountable to this particular principle, so I would say even MLAs. No one should be exempt from this. Would it be used often? That shouldn’t be the question. It should be about how it’s used.
I may never be lobbied by a paid lobbyist group but I would be more than willing to come clean if anyone ever asked me. To date, I have not been lobbied by a lobby group that I am aware of at least.
I would rightly put this on the shoulders of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner. Who better to understand these types of issues and conflicts than the present Conflict of Interest Commissioner?
For the facts, honesty, and let’s get this out there, Members cannot receive a gift more than $400 and we must report that. That’s the type of scrutiny that we’re presently under, but that doesn’t preclude how many times we have been invited to particular events to participate. That doesn’t include how many dinners have been bought. There are many gaps in the process of accountability. I believe one further step should be considered when I say things don’t go far enough.
While I welcome what the Premier said and like what he said about if anyone requests a copy of the Ministers’ calendars, it would be provided. I think he said no one, to date, has said that. That’s testament to people’s trust in the government, but at the same time I think sometimes people don’t know about their rights as well. We must find a balanced approach. When I say I don’t think it goes far enough, we should find a way to balance that with Ministers’ schedules and who they meet with to be publicized in a reasonable way; protecting those who are bringing forward proper issues, but recognizing what types of issues there are, how many times they are being brought forward by people and for what reason.
At the end of the day, I don’t know how many lobbyists there are in the Northwest Territories. The Premier has characterized it by saying the number could fit on one hand. I don’t know any of them personally, Mr. Speaker, and if I do they’ve never told me they are paid lobbyists.
I don’t know how many southern lobbyists come to the North to express their opinion and I’d be surprised, if not shocked, to find out if we had any at all.
At the end of the day, I support this initiative and I think it’s a great idea. Just because you don’t use it often doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be a pillar of the way we do business. We must be responsible in all accounts. This adds transparency and accountability. It’s not asking too much. In this world today, the public demands a higher level of scrutiny than they have ever before and that scrutiny and expectation of accountability will only grow every day going forward. So asking for this type of accountability I don’t think is asking too much. It’s being honest with our constituents on why we are doing particular business. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. I will allow the mover of the motion to have closing remarks. Mr. Dolynny.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank Mr. Nadli for seconding and allowing debate on this motion before the House. I would also like to thank my colleagues for their support and point of view, although I disagree. I don’t think we are making a mountain out of a molehill.
It has been some time since we have had a debate of this nature, so it’s refreshing to get back on the saddle. I would like to thank my colleagues.
There were some excellent points being brought forward during this debate. I hope these points provide the framework of investigation being asked. Again, this motion does not compel the legislation for a lobbyist registry but merely suggests the feasibility on the best way to implement this publicly, nothing more.
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. The Member is seeking a recorded vote. All those in favour, please stand.
Mr. Dolynny, Mr. Bouchard, Mr. Nadli, Mr. Hawkins, Ms. Bisaro, Mr. Moses, Mr. Bromley, Mr. Menicoche, Mr. Blake, Mrs. Groenewegen.
All those opposed, please stand. All those abstaining, please stand.
Mr. Yakeleya, Mr. Beaulieu, Mr. Abernethy, Mr. Miltenberger, Mr. McLeod – Yellowknife South, Mr. Lafferty, Mr. Ramsay, Mr. McLeod – Inuvik Twin Lakes.
All those in favour, 10; all those opposed, zero; abstentions, eight. The motion is carried.
---Carried
Item 18, first reading of bills. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to return to item 6 on the Order Paper, recognition of visitors in the gallery.
---Unanimous consent granted
It has come to my attention that Weledeh resident Mr. Kevin Hynes is in the gallery today, president of the Yellowknife Association of Firefighters. I’d like to welcome him here.
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Kam Lake, that Bill 45, An Act to Amend the Workers’ Compensation Act, be read for the second time.
This bill amends the Workers’ Compensation Act to replace the definition of listed disease in Section 14. (1) in order to add five additional forms of cancer and to clarify the French version.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill.
Question.
Question has been called. The motion is carried.
---Carried
Bill 45 has had second reading and is referred to standing committee.
Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Bill 38, An Act to Amend the Jury Act; Bill 41, An Act to Amend the Partnership Act; Committee Report 10-17(5), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the 2013-2014 Annual Report of the Information and Privacy Commissioner of the Northwest Territories; and Tabled Document 188-17(5), Northwest Territories Main Estimates 2015-2016, with Mrs. Groenewegen in the chair.
I’d like to call Committee of the Whole to order again today. I’d like to ask, what is the wish of the committee? Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We wish to continue with TD 188-17(5), Northwest Territories Main Estimates 2015-2016. We will continue with the Department of Health and Social Services and, time permitting, the Department of Transportation.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. We’ll commence with that after a brief break.
---SHORT RECESS
Minister Abernethy, if you’d be kind enough to introduce your witnesses back into the House.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. On my left is Jeannie Mathison who is the director of finance and on my right is Debbie DeLancey who is the deputy minister.
Thank you, Minister Abernethy, Ms. DeLancey, Ms. Mathison. Again, welcome back to the House.
Committee, we last left this activity on page 203, community social programs, operations expenditure summary, $28.199 million. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It’s my understanding that we are approaching the conclusion of the department. Have we reached that point yet?
Mr. Hawkins, we are currently on page 203 under community social programs. We do have a couple of activities left to do before we do a conclusion. Mr. Hawkins.
No, Mr. Chairman, I was just double checking that we haven’t reached the point of conclusion. Thank you.
No, Mr. Hawkins, we’re continuing on with activities. Do you have any questions on this activity page?
No, I’m good. Thank you.
Thank you. Committee, again, page 203, community social programs, operations expenditure summary, $28.199 million. Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to make a couple comments here. The first one is with the day shelters here in Yellowknife and Inuvik. I just want to talk about the importance of having these in place, especially during the winter months, and that funding. I know funding in Inuvik was supposed to go to the Day Shelter. That money was resituated so that it could into an emergency shelter in the evenings. I know, speaking with some of the board members, they talked about the importance of doing a day shelter now, so we’re looking at both emergency shelters and day shelters.
With the day shelters I think the funding would be fully utilized in terms of getting counsellors, people that can go and speak to clients that would access the day shelters and not just have a place where you go and warm up. There’s got to be something that goes along with it. Counselling services, resume writing, you know, just basic life skills could be taught at these day shelters and I think that’s something that needs to be looked at when we’re funding some of these organizations to run it. It’s got to be put into a contract saying that the day shelters, when they have them open, they can also be providing services to the clientele.
The other one is just in terms of, you know, my pitch for death review committees again. We looked here under the family violence programs offer protection, assistance and shelter services, just more support in that area and looking at possibly the department working with the Department of Justice to look into the feasibility of having a death review committee and the importance of having that kind of committee in place when we’re dealing with family violence.
I know we’re going through the Child and Family Services Act as well as the action plan that’s coming out. I did some research into some work that’s also been done. The Saskatchewan Welfare Review of 2010 had some really good recommendations in it and it actually focussed on mental health, substance abuse and family violence in the home and how to provide services and having access to efficient counselling and programs for people that are in those three areas. They all intertwine and one kind of feeds off the other and they’re all related. I feel that we have the same situations up here in the North and, I think, looking at that model and those recommendations, we’ve got to look at how we can do that here in the Northwest Territories as well.
Those are just three areas of more just general comments, that I wanted to put out there, just give some ideas, get the department thinking about how we can utilize our day shelters effectively with programs and services for our clientele and not just giving them a place to warm up. I know some of them won’t take it on, but there’s some out there that might need to learn how to write a resume or, you know, might want to take in some counselling and have someone to talk to. So, when we’re funding these day shelters I think that’s got to be taken into account.
Like I said, it would be nice if the department can work with the Department of Justice about this family violence and possibly looking at death review committees and the feasibility of that. So, just comments, and as I said, I just wanted to get the Minister and his staff thinking about, you know, when we fund these organizations, what can we do more and support them more or ask them to do work that would benefit residents and also benefit us as we’re giving them dollars. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank the Member for the comments. I agree with the Member on the need for programs to at least be available to the day shelters, maybe not permanently located in there, but with the Day Shelter in Yellowknife there is space for staff from different departments to actually go in on a regular basis, or as requested, to meet with individuals in the Day Shelter. I agree; I think that’s important. I also know that the proponent is intending to deliver some of their own programs out of there as well. So it is good and I agree fully with the Member.
I will ask the department to work with the Department of Justice to explore the concept of the death review committee. I’m not as familiar with it as maybe the Member is, but I will ask the department to work with the Department of Justice.
I would like to say that when it comes to the Day Shelter in Yellowknife, by way of example, we’ve had a lot of really wonderful partnerships. The city has stepped up quite impressively. They recognize that this is a Yellowknife issue as well as a territorial issue and they’ve been an active partner since day one and we really appreciate them coming to the table. But I should also say that the Department of Justice has actually come to the table for ‘14-15 and has provided some financial support for the Day Shelter, as well, as well as ECE. So we do have a number of departments who have recognized the importance of this institution, this shelter, and have come to the table. So, thank you.
I’m kind of intrigued in how the Department of Justice and Department of ECE both contributed to the Day Shelter here in Yellowknife. I believe there’s only one other Day Shelter in the Northwest Territories and that’s in Inuvik, and whether or not the department would work with the other departments in looking at accessing those funds, as well, because the cost of doing business further up north is a lot higher. So, I’m intrigued and wouldn’t mind getting more information on that, and I’ll ask the Ministers when it does become time to review this. Thank you, Mr. Chair. More of a comment.
Thank you, Mr. Moses, but I know the Minister would like to reply. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Recognizing the increased cost of providing the Day Shelter here in Yellowknife, I did send letters to a number of different organizations, including government departments, and the Department of Justice and the Department of Education responded positively for ’14-15, one-time funding of $20,000 each to help cover the costs in the ’14-15 fiscal year. There’s no ongoing funding.
Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Continuing on, questions on community social programs, I have Mr. Yakeleya.
Mr. Chair, thank you. I’d like to ask the Minister how many children, if he can possibly be able to provide me with a breakdown of the Aboriginal children in foster care in the Northwest Territories. There might be different levels of care for the children, if he could somehow get that information to me.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The department does have that data but we don’t have it at our fingertips, so I will commit to getting that information to the Member and committee.
I’ll look forward to that information. Thank you. That’s all for my questions.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Committee, again we’re on page 203, community social programs, operations expenditure summary, $28.199 million. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
