Agreed.
Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.
Thank you. Minister, could you please start by introducing your witnesses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. To my right is Russell Neudorf, deputy minister, Department of Transportation; to my left, Daniel Auger, assistant deputy minister, Department of Transportation; and to my far right, Jim Martin, director of corporate services, Department of Transportation.
Thank you, Minister. Committee, we are on general comments for the Department of Transportation. First on my list I have Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. This is one of the departments that I deal with extensively because we’ve got almost 25 percent of the roads in the Nahendeh riding and airport infrastructure as well. We had good exchange in the House earlier with the Minister with regard to Highway No. 7, the strategy and what the department has planned to upgrade and reconstruct that road, given the impending Canadian Zinc Mine expansion plans as well as constituents have always told me the importance of Highway No. 7 when it comes to tourism.
I think I have said it in the House before, that Ted Grant actually gets phone calls from Europe when tourists are coming north and asking specifically about how is Highway No. 7. He’s a good man; he’s honest and he tells them, if it’s in very, very poor condition, don’t even try to drive up this way. The tourism stops in northern BC also let tourists know what the condition is of the highway.
For me, we have to continue working on Highway No. 7. We’ve got to get on it early to prevent a blow-up like we did about four years ago when small vehicles were actually getting stuck in the highway. That just removes a lot of income potential from tourism and people bringing their freight through Highway No. 7 to and from Fort Liard as well. So, it has an economic impact and loss of economic benefits as well. So, that’s interest in Highway No. 7.
Another big, important aspect of transportation in the past few years was the construction of the new 3,500 airstrip in Trout Lake. I am very pleased the Minister of Transportation was able to go through there in December. We viewed it, it was completed, we landed on it and it was an absolutely wonderful piece of infrastructure. One thing missing is – I’m glad it was blowing cold – there is no terminal there. I’d like to ask the Minister what the plans are to get that terminal into Trout Lake.
As well, the members of the community raised the concern about how the airport was constructed and there may be some issues come spring thaw with settling and that kind of stuff. They remained concerned about that, so I convey that to the Minister as well. I’d like to know what their plan is, should there be a failure on that runway, Mr. Chair.
Also, Trout Lake has always been requesting a snow blower to help them clean their runways. I think, in this case, a request for a snow blower even makes more sense. It’s a much larger airport, it has a much larger apron and it will take a lot of work. I know they have done the work with the grader in the past, but I don’t believe it’s as effective as a snow blower will be. So I continue to trust the matter and ask the Minister if they can come up with a plan to look at getting a snow blower for the community of Trout Lake.
Some of the other highway sections are between Fort Simpson and Wrigley. I know they did some work last year. I’d like to ask the Minister what the continued plan is for strengthening the Wrigley section. As we talk about the Mackenzie Valley Highway extension, I believe we have to continue strengthening that road. They’ve done wonderful work between Fort Simpson and Nduli ferry. So, they have to continue that same level of upgrading and grade lifts between the Nduli ferry and the community of Wrigley. There are some soft spots there as well. I’d like to know what the plans are for investing in that section. I am going to put it in as a request, but highway reports keep indicating that section is in poor condition. That’s the department’s own report. So it’s time to review the situation and say, how are we going to upgrade the report to the point where we don’t have to concentrate on it when we develop our expansion plans for the Mackenzie Valley Highway north?
We have had some great investments in continuing the chipsealing between Providence junction and Checkpoint. Constituents are quite excited that in our lifetime we might actually see that whole 240 kilometres chipsealed. I would like to know what the plan is moving forward with that. It’s always great to see men with equipment working on that, upgrading and making it wider. That’s an old highway, as well, so it’s great to see the investment there, only because the future of the North can get busy with the development of future economic development in the Sahtu region not only while they travel on a planned Mackenzie Valley extension but also on their existing infrastructure like Highway No. 7 and Highway No. 1. That’s the importance of that, strengthening and continuing a chipseal program as we move forward. With that, I conclude my comments. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are maintaining Highway No. 7. We’re hoping that all of the areas that were identified as very bad spots are going to be attended to sooner rather than later, although our concentration is going to be in around fixing that highway and finishing the chipseal to Liard from BC, from Liard over to Nahanni, and there will be lots of BCP money going in there.
Other areas where there are soft spots – and it was a major concern when we were in Fort Liard, where it’s very bad and we’re aware of it – the guys and the department from Simpson seem very aware of it so we will be paying attention to that.
The Trout Lake Airport, the ATB is something we had initially planned in the process. It was part of the planning process, but the airport construction consumed all of the budget and we had to find additional funds just to finish the airport work itself.
The ATB, I do believe we had budgeted about $400,000. So that is something we are doing. We are looking internally now as we move money into that area to finish the airstrip itself, we’re looking for money internally to do some work so something can be done this summer, some of the work. Otherwise, we are also, as a backup, going through the process to re-enter it into the capital planning process, although it’s been through there once already.
As far as a snow blower goes, so far for strips this size we haven’t provided snow blowers. They are expensive pieces of equipment, but what we’ve agreed to do is monitor it through the full winter season and see how it went. If there were issues with the equipment they have, if it caused any deals or issues with planes landing and so on after this construction season, if the problems were there, then we would certainly consider maybe an alternative solution. I don’t know if that would be a snow blower or better equipment, but we will monitor that for that reason.
The Wrigley/Simpson highway, right now we’re maintaining the highway, maintenance only. There’s not a lot of capital money going into that. It’s mostly and all to do with volume of traffic. During the winter months when the highway is open to Norman Wells, Good Hope and so on, when the highway opens to the Sahtu the volume goes up when the highway is frozen. So it doesn’t have the type of impact that it would when driving it in the summertime. Then in the summertime the volume is low. Those are things we consider when we consider spending capital on highways. We will continue to monitor that. As the Mackenzie Highway comes closer to construction, then we would be upgrading that portion and it would be unwise not to upgrade the first section of the new highway going into Norman Wells.
Thank you, Minister. I’ll go to the deputy minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In terms of the plans for Highway No. 1, it is a project that we’re putting forward under the Building Canada Plan. We are looking at the stretch between Fort Providence junction and Checkpoint. We will put more chipseal on, so we’ll get to kilometre 395. Over the next two or three years we hope to reconstruct and chipseal another 20 kilometres, so we’ll get to kilometre 397 which is the junction of the Jean Marie access road. Then if there’s some funding left after that under the Building Canada Plan, we’ll be working from both ends towards the middle so that over the next five to 10 years we hope we can considerably expand the amount of chipseal. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister Neudorf. Next on my list I have Mr. Yakeleya.
Mr. Chair, in the organization chart I did a little creative drawing and I put in a little box that says superintendent for the Sahtu. It’s really simple, Mr. Chair. Again, just to ask the department to keep that in mind, to consider being creative with that type of thinking.
I do want to say, in all seriousness, my appreciation for the winter roads we have open and the contractors this winter. The contractors have done an excellent job, despite the amount of money that they need. I think all the contractors on our winter roads in the North do a really good job. We have probably the best heavy equipment operators in the North here. We have given them so much money and they do what they have to do with it. So I want to thank them first of all and then thank the department for the region – I come from the Sahtu – with regards to listening to the people on the additional Arctic paving program that the Minister has done some work with the staff to get some of the dollars into the roads. He and I heard, when we took a trip to Tulita and to Fort Good Hope, about the driving conditions that we subject our drivers to go through each day for the next couple months when the winter roads are open. I want to thank the Minister for taking the trip with me.
I also want to mention to the Minister about some of the approaches for the winter road. From time to time we get written observation reports, we get verbal reports on different sections of the winter roads that need additional care and need additional work, and sometimes the approaches to the bridges need to be looked at. I want to tell the Minister that there’s one bridge, called the Oscar Creek Bridge, that is really out in nowhere and it’s been sitting there for a couple years and it’s quite embarrassing for the department and ourselves to see this bridge here. Even though it’s been on the books, we really haven’t moved on that bridge and we keep putting it off every year. We all seem to put that bridge off and find other priorities that jump the queue, so to speak, and they’ve just moved this bridge back. I’m not sure of the rationale behind that type of thinking on our infrastructure.
I want to let the Minister know about the airports, the terminal, and Deline is very, very small, especially when they have a lot of traffic. People are quite crowded in that terminal building in Deline. I look forward to seeing some work being done to see what they can do to increase that terminal building similar to what they’ve done in Fort Good Hope in regards to that piece of infrastructure.
I want to talk about the marine. I look forward to the Minister meeting with his federal counterpart to look at dredging of the waterway systems in the Mackenzie River. I know Hay River has talked about dredging around their area. There are also areas along the Mackenzie River that have been identified. There are some areas that are not high on the ranking of dredging, but we did listen to the mayor of Norman Wells talk about the dredging around the dock areas and we certainly heard the people in Fort Good Hope talk about the low waters and the difficulties they had getting their supplies into that community.
The proposal for the Mackenzie Valley Highway, we look forward to that being reviewed by the federal government and seeing how we can move on that proposal. It’s much needed infrastructure in our region. People in Tulita and the Sahtu area talk about this next big proposal for the Northwest Territories. In saying that, inside the Mackenzie Valley proposal there are two areas I want to talk about. The Norman Wells Canol Creek proposal that the Minister talked about is a living document; it’s on his desk. This is to look at getting some work done prior to the big Mackenzie Valley Highway proposal. It’s part and parcel to the work there.
The people in Tulita said the Bear River Bridge was off and is now back on again. The Bear River Bridge is on the radar to make sure this infrastructure is something that they want to move on.
I do want to close off by saying thank you to the Minister for the continued support on the very valuable Community Access Roads Program. It’s a program that’s really appreciated by the people who can take advantage of it in our small communities. If you link that Access Roads Program to the unemployment, you’ll see it makes sense. We don’t have activity like there is in some of the communities or regions. Some of our communities or regions look forward to that type of program the government can offer and the government does support. So from a small community perspective, I want to say thank you for maintaining that funding level. That was a very smart move to continue to move this and I want to thank you, Mr. Minister.
The last part I want to say is I will continue working with you on the road licensing issues. I know your department and myself had discussions and we were trying to figure out ways to deal with some of the unique issues we have to deal with in our small communities, the way the licence system is worked out there. I look forward to seeing some kind of licence driving programs in our small communities such as the Department of Education, Culture and Employment bringing those programs into our high schools or even to the Aurora College centres so people can take advantage of these types of skill development and programs offered by the Department of Transportation. That’s all for my comments, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I agree with the Member. The contractors in the Sahtu that build the winter roads do a good job, a good job of maintaining it. Some years, depending on the volumes of snowfall largely determines some of the conditions. There is heavy snowfall at times, so the grading that is scheduled inside the contracts can’t keep up. On the other hand, sometimes there is a minimal amount of snowfall and that causes some of the road to be rough. We have to work with the conditions, do an estimate on what we think the standard is. We pretty well know. For example, last year people weren’t sure how much snow came. People said there wasn’t a lot of snow, but there was about 90 percent of what was normal in the NWT, so the other issues related to that were not directly because of snow volumes. That is an issue, but we had agreed, where we had talked to industry, and we have added some money to it and that we would also be looking to add money in our base in order to improve the winter road.
Oscar Creek is a long-standing issue. Right now we have the winter road running by it. Aside from the fact that it looks very odd, we are not using it and we are going around it. For sure, before there is any permanent highway built that bridge has to be placed… Either the entry, the ramps up to the bridge have to be built or the bridge has to be moved, one of the two. We are looking at that. We have recently drove by it and the department sent us some pictures to take a look at it from the air to see all the water that’s around that area, so you get a feel for what type of work would be needed on that bridge once we have to move it and place it in a permanent place.
The ATB in Deline is something that we will be working on this summer. There is going to be an expansion to that. It is very small, and for a community of 650 to 700, they have a very small building and we recognize that. In fact, sometimes there are three flights in there if there’s a charter or something and it gets pretty crowded there. We recognize that so we will be doing some work on that.
On the dredging, when we wrote a letter to address the issues around Hay River, it also included all of the waterway that would need dredging. The comments that we made to the federal Minister was about the whole Mackenzie River. So that’s something we are hoping we are going to get engaged with the federal government on in the near future.
The Mackenzie Valley Highway, Canyon Creek, we’re seeing the first bit of money coming from CanNor. We are very close to getting that money from the federal government, not the full amount for the project, which is a $22 million project, but an amount to get started and do the planning on it.
There is a lot of discussion in the community of Tulita plus Norman Wells, plus anybody who I think wants the Mackenzie Valley built from Wrigley to Norman Wells, a priority might be a Bear River Bridge. It seemed to be something that was very valuable for the actual construction of the highway itself. There is access to a gravel pit on the other side of the river where there was very little access, or I think the access was about 40 kilometres away from Tulita going south. Whereas, if the bridge was in first when the construction started, if and when the construction of the Mackenzie Valley started, it appears as though Bear River Bridge may be something we want to do soon in the project as opposed to later on in the project. That’s something that we recognize.
Access Roads Program – thank you, Member – it’s a very valuable program. It goes into the small communities. A few years ago we had some of the members of the Rural and Remote Communities, which most of the Members from the small communities sit on, had that increased to $1 million per year and we have maintained that.
On the road licensing, it is a very tough one to deal with. You have people wishing to have a standard Class 5 licence in the small communities. For the department, we can go in there and do a restricted licence because there is no traffic volume in these communities, so it’s like giving someone a licence when you haven’t tested them in traffic. One of the things we are asking is when individuals come to Yellowknife, is to get a licence, because without being tested in traffic… With a regular Class 5 licence you can drive anywhere in the country, anywhere in the world actually. So, to put somebody that’s got a driver’s licence where they went through the whole test without encountering any traffic lights, any volume of traffic at all and then sending them down to Edmonton and putting them behind the wheel would not be something that the department wishes to do and would not be a wise thing to do. What we need to do is we need to get the people tested in Yellowknife, if possible, and if there is a way to do the training anywhere, like we have talked with some Members about doing it at the school to get all the basics there, giving them an increased chance of success when they do run the standard test in Yellowknife, Hay River, Fort Smith, or Inuvik, for that matter. We also issue full licences there. I think in Simpson as well. We like to stay with that because we think that anything else will be unsafe. If we find a safe way where we can issue those licences, then that’s what we’ll do. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Next on my list I have Mr. Dolynny.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to welcome the Department of Transportation here today and specifically Mr. Auger for joining us for his last tour. He will be missed, for sure.
Mr. Chair, really in no particular order, there will be a number of things I will be bringing up in general comments and some of those I will be re-emphasizing in detail.
To the Minister’s opening comments: what caught my attention in terms of something that I applaud as being noble, but when I look at the expenditure and what they are spending money on, I had to question the validity; and that is the $163,000 to increase services and information in French. That in itself is noble. I heard that part of this will be to install signs in French. If that means road signs in French, I would have to question the validity of spending that money. I don’t think constitutionally it is a requirement. I have yet to see road signs in French when I’m travelling in other western provinces. So again, if we are going to be spending money in French services, it should be more accessible to online narratives, those types of things. But if it is indeed to make signs French, I would probably question the spending of that in the communities and on the road access ways.
Ever since being a Member here, I have been fairly vocal on the area of emergency preparedness in our communities and on our highways. I know that there has been some work done behind the scenes, the highway emergency alerting protocol, HEAP for short, in conjunction with MACA. Some work has been done in the past. I know there was a discussion paper that was provided. But when you look at the seriousness and the geopolitical scope and landscape that we have here, we run the risk of putting our residents in grave danger on our highway systems. I’m a bit perplexed, given the nature and what I think is the severity of the cause. I see a budget before us that is relatively quiet, almost silent to the issue of emergency preparedness on highways. Again, we can dive more into detail when we get to the directorate part of it, but for someone who has been a champion of the cause, I am a little bit disappointed that we are not putting that higher on our awareness level.
I do have to applaud the department on its road licensing and safety. More particularly with all the technology that we’ve seen come on board in the last year with online accessibility to abstracts and things of that nature. Again, I encourage that expenditure and I see the fruits of our labour in action and I think the residents of the Northwest Territories want to thank the forward-thinking in that area.
That being said, I know I’ve spoken in the House; I know the Member for Sahtu has spoken in the House and the Minister has commented as well today on getting our young people to get their driver’s licence in our smaller communities. This was a very problematic issue that came to our attention about a year or two ago, where a lot of our students who are graduating Grade 12 couldn’t apply for some of our jobs and some of our mining opportunities as a result of not having a driver’s licence, and I found that to be quite problematic and prevalent. I know I’ve heard that they’re trying to work with ECE to try to do proper protocols and put programs in place in our schools, but I don’t think we’re there yet and I strongly encourage a more sweeping approach, a more targeted approach to make sure that we’re getting drivers’ licences into the schools, incorporating schools that don’t have a road licensing safety office in that community. Let’s open up the doors of opportunity and that starts with a driver’s licence.
I know myself and I’m sure everyone here who got their first driver’s licence, you are pretty proud when you have one. Not only are you able to drive a vehicle but sometimes it’s your first piece of real I.D. with your picture on it. So there’s a sense of pride behind that, as well, when you’re travelling abroad going, I’ve got a driver’s licence.
So it is an accomplishment, and if we’re trying to foster an environment of trying to make people feel positive, I think it starts with our kids. It starts with the schools, and I encourage the department to reach out with the departments of ECE and MACA to see if they can formulate a more formal process and let’s put the money in those types of projects.
I will have a more detailed piece when you talk about airports in general. The Minister is very much aware of my enthusiasm on looking at changes to the Yellowknife Airport governance program in a way that we are able to leverage our assets and provide better tools and a better economic landscape with our Yellowknife Airport. Again, I’ll leave that for later and I don’t expect the Minister to comment until we get to that detail.
I wouldn’t be doing my job if I didn’t talk about the tolls at the Deh Cho Bridge for a second. I know the Member for Hay River North brought it up yesterday in general comments. My take on it is quite simple. I believe that we’re penalizing, to some degree, the small business owner who has a four-by-four truck, a half-ton truck, a three-quarter-ton truck, those types of vehicles. These commercial vehicles easily reach over that 4,500 kilogram threshold the moment they pull a trailer, the moment they pull a boat, the moment they pull a holiday trailer. A lot of times these businesses have to maintain separate accounting records for CRA, for taxation if they’re using that vehicle for personal use, but we don’t differentiate behind that at all. The moment a commercial truck goes northbound on that bridge, according to the new regulations it will be a $95 toll. I think if we’re trying to foster an environment of fairness, we’re trying to lower our cost of living. I think we’ve got to be fair to the small business owner. Because I know these regulations are under review, I’m going to strongly encourage, once again, that we look at eliminating that lesser threshold. I don’t believe it’s a cash grab that’s making the department a lot of money, but it’s an irritant, pure and simple, a complete irritant to the business community and those that are in and around that bridge area. I basically sympathize with them, including Yellowknifers who have to go northbound on that highway and pay that toll, especially for those categories I indicated.
It’s going to be in the not-too-distant future that the issue of NWT fires are going to be problematic again. We know we’re headed into another dry season and I do have to applaud the department for coordinating quite efficiently with ENR during our fire season of 2014. I know that there were bumps in the road. We know that the communication aspect of highway closures improved during the summer and I think the use of social media and social networking were definitely testaments to that improvement.
That being said, I can honestly say, as well, that there was also opportunity, and I’m hoping that we learned from our past in terms of how we can make things better for our residents. As I said, a lot of those closures were due to visibility. But unfortunately, when I say the word “visibility,” I was almost skeptical that the visibility seemed to be very problematic during the hours of 5:00 p.m. and 8:00 a.m. but during the daytime visibility was okay. So I know the manpower and people power is an issue if we didn’t have enough people to man roadblocks or at least go up and down the highways or get aerial views of the road conditions. But I can’t count how many closures there were, especially on Highway No. 3 going into the capital city last year. I can attest, though, being someone who actually travelled those roads during closures and basically travelling on these roads when they were open immediately after and actually immediately closed, the conditions were fine. Yes, there was smoke, there was smoke everywhere in the Northwest Territories, but I don’t believe that they were to that level of liability and safety that I would consider it being an impediment. But I do have to indicate the fact that they were closed during certain periods of time, which begs to ask, did we have enough manpower or people power to actually make that decision. I’ll leave it up to the department to respond to that one.
Again, optics were definitely paramount. This is definitely the buzzword; the whisper around people waiting on both sides of the roads going, okay, why can’t we go through? Because it appeared it was fine. Again, I know the department is worried about safety, and for all intents and purposes I always err on the caution side, but I had to put that out there and this is my venue for doing so.
Last but not least, I know it’s a capital issue and I’ll talk about it a little bit more when we get into the highways. I know the Highway No. 4 bypass and all the rigours of some of the liabilities, the fact that it’s probably not complete. I’m really concerned about the liability, a contractor still not being paid. So I’ll leave that to when we get to that detail line. I know it’s an operational budget, but I need to get some update on that highway as well.
So, just a few things, Mr. Chair, and I’d like to thank the department again. I appreciate it. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Minister Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The French language services, the signs were put up for safety reasons. Anywhere where we felt there were potential safety-related issues we put up signs in both languages to ensure that it was understood by all the travelling public. The majority of that money, we provide French services, as well, in addition to that, and that was salary and a little bit of travel. So we thought it was well spent.
Highway emergency learning protocol is something that we work with the departments of Municipal and Community Affairs and Health and Social Services. We’re going to continue to work on that. We know that it’s not a simple solution, covering the highway, emergency services on the highway. It might seem simple; however, who covers which area from which community and who pays for the ongoing services inside that community? So the emergency, like an ambulance, for example, that sits in the community of Behchoko is used within the community of Behchoko. If they respond to something on the highway, who pays for it? Like, those types of things. So we’re working with, like I said, the two other departments, to try to come up with the correct protocol on how to address emergency services on the highways.
Drivers’ licences, I’ve always felt was a good idea that drivers’ licences be part of the school curriculum. Everything the Member said about that is true. Still today you get 25-year-old guys who are applying for a job and they can do the actual job, but one of the requirements is a driver’s licence, and that’s something I think everyone should have. If we have a better system of issuing drivers’ licences, full drivers’ licences to people who meet all the qualifications, we’re all for that. The driver’s licence is very well used. I use that instead of my passport to travel all over within Canada. It’s a good document that’s recognized by the travel industry, for sure, and so on. It’s something I wish anybody who can achieve it at the right age could get it.
We’ll talk a bit about the governance of the ATB in Yellowknife when we get to that detail.
The Deh Cho tolls, we tried to answer that in various ways. Individuals who don’t want to be penalized for hauling their personal boat or pulling their personal trailer should just buy a regular licence plate as opposed to a commercial licence plate and that will avoid having to pay for commercial-type tolls.
The NWT fires, it’s an interesting point of view from the Member, but it is a fact that winds do die down at night. Along with the Department of Environment and Natural Resources, we’ve had 24-hour coverage during the heavy fire season. We were talking about a very long highway that was in jeopardy, 200 kilometres. We didn’t want to send people down the highway and one hour later they were in the middle of 200 kilometres of highway and if there is a fire on each end, what do we do? We had to use escorts and we had to make sure when we did open it, it was very safe. So we did what we did. We’ll pick up some knowledge from the fires last year. I know the Department of Environment and Natural Resources does a debriefing on fires, so maybe this year we could have some of our DOT people from highways join them. I will have a discussion on that with the Minister, or maybe you have already. It’s already happened? That’s good.
Again, I look forward to having an exchange on Highway No. 4 when we get to the detail.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Next on my list I have Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a few comments. First of all I just want to make some comments on the ferry operations in Inuvik this past winter. The first year was definitely a learning experience. The way it was developed and operated this year was excellent. I know all the guys working on it and some people making comments said it was really well done this year. Moving forward, it’s going to be a very efficient practice getting that up and running.
I also want to just make a comment about the Aviation Career Development Program. I am pretty sure that scholarship is fully utilized every year and maybe we need to increase the funding into that. I have a constituent who’s received that scholarship twice and he’s excelling in the aviation field and he appreciates the support the department is giving him.
Once again, the investment into the Inuvik-Tuk highway, the department is staying on top of that in terms of getting that road up and running. Like I said, it’s an investment into the region and getting a lot of people working. The Minister made a statement saying there were 600 people employed, which is great with the economy we are seeing right now in the Beaufort-Delta region.
A few things of concern and an idea I will throw out there as well. I know the Minister has made trips up to Inuvik, and almost on a yearly basis the access road into Inuvik from the airport always seems to need some type of maintenance. I think last year we had some funding put in there that worked on certain sections, but I think that continues to need to be addressed.
The department also knows my concern with the runway in Inuvik. The last time we had a briefing, there was a study going on to look into that. I wanted to know where the plan is moving forward on the runway.
There’s not a whole lot that hasn’t already been said by my colleagues, but we are building this Inuvik to Tuk highway to the Beaufort Sea and we’re also getting a lot more vessels through the Northwest Passage. I wonder if it’s feasible for this government to look at possibly putting in a deep water port in the Beaufort Sea where we can start getting things shipped up there and shipping it down the valley from there. It might be a possibility. Whether the department has that on the books, I’m not sure.
So, really not much more other than that. The ferry operations were great last year.
Also, the Canada Building Fund, I know we’re waiting to hear the details on that and what’s going on. I know we will be building big infrastructure projects if that funding is approved. Maybe if we could get an update or a possible timeline when that will be updated for Members, that would be appreciated. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We agree that the ferry operations in the Beaufort-Delta went very well this year. I do believe traffic was closed for one day only. I’m sorry, I had an understanding it was only closed for one day for regular traffic. The deputy minister tells me it was actually eight days. I don’t know if that was heavy traffic. I guess on average we were closed for eight days.
The aviation scholarship is something that people do benefit from. We do have a reduction in that scholarship this year, but we’re also re-examining how we can use that scholarship money.
Investment in the Inuvik-Tuk highway has gone very well, no question about that. We are on schedule and maybe even slightly ahead of schedule. The money we anticipated spending for that highway is something we will spend. We’re going to get an opportunity for Members of this House to look at it firsthand on March 16th and 17th as we travel up there with the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Infrastructure.
The Inuvik airport road is in the plan for the Building Canada Plan. I can’t remember the exact amount we put in there, $10 million to fix the dips and try to fix it permanently. They will patch it or fill it and it will sink again, so they’ve come up with a more permanent solution. So we have some money in there for that.
The Inuvik runway, I’m going to have the deputy minister talk about this one because there was some research and stuff that went on there. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Deputy Minister Neudorf.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We did have a depression in the runway appear quite suddenly about a year ago. We did an immediate emergency repair to it and that’s working fine. In the meantime, we have engineers engaged to determine what the exact mechanism was that was causing that. That work is still ongoing, but we do have money that we hope to carry it forward to next year so that we can undertake a permanent repair next summer. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, deputy minister. Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just another comment about the feasibility of maybe looking at a deep water port for the Beaufort Sea in terms of the vessels going through the Northwest Passage on a more recurring basis and it might be an opportunity for various things in terms of getting our resources out to market and bringing supplies in for the coastal communities, those kinds of things. So I’d like to know if that’s something that the department is looking into. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The community of Tuktoyaktuk has been looking at this deep water port for some time. Of course, as the highway to Tuktoyaktuk is getting close to completion, there’s more interest in a deep water port. It’s another viable transportation method, so that’s certainly something we would participate in.
In as far as what we can do from using our highway and so on, deep water ports are a federal responsibility and that’s where it will probably remain for now. However, whatever we can do as a department to assist, we’ll be there.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Next on my list I have Mr. Blake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a few comments and concerns here. Under the Community Access Program there are a lot of great projects that fall under there, but one of the ones that I wanted to touch on was Willow River. Recently we purchased a bridge just this past year here and we were hoping to have that bridge in place this season. We are drawing near to the end of the season here. There’s less than two months to go. I presume there are no funds secured for that at this point and I’d like to hear something positive on that.
Also, I did do a statement in November, I believe, with regards to the ice crossing at Tsiigehtchic. This winter, for the winter season, a lot of progress has been made. People are saying it’s even faster than the service in the summer, which is good news to hear. I’ve been on it a few times and I think we’ve worked out all the kinks, and I look forward to seeing that continue in the future.
Under the Building Canada Plan, it hasn’t been approved in the House yet, but there’s a lot of concern in my riding about the continued work on the Dempster Highway. Just in the one year, this past year, there wasn’t any work. That was a big impact on the community with 30 to 50 jobs that were lost. It would be nice to see this continuing this summer. I’m not sure if we can have a positive response on that at this point.
Also under the same Building Canada Plan, I’m kind of concerned at seeing the change from Wrigley to Norman Wells. I believe when we first brought this up it was from Wrigley to Inuvik. As a Member from the Beaufort-Delta, I’d like to see that highway actually go right to Inuvik in my lifetime here, just because of all the goods that we see coming from the Yukon that could actually be coming through our territory. You know, you think of all the tolls and weight bans and all the expenses that can be staying here in our territory. Hopefully, one day we could see this project completed all the way up to Inuvik, connecting up to Tuk one day.
Also, under marine, under ferry contracts, I have a number of concerns from my riding. They’d like to see this contract actually being managed out of the communities in the coming year here, and the contract is coming to an end. Once we work on that, hopefully we can resolve that issue.
Also under Transportation, I recently did a statement on the overflow areas, specifically by Tsiigehtchic. It’s affecting residents that actually live on that part of the land here. They chose to live a traditional lifestyle and it’s being affected on a daily basis every winter with overflow and it’s very challenging for them. Moving forward I hope we can adopt the practice that’s in the Yukon that they do to address the overflow, which is to install a heat trace line in culverts. Whenever there’s an issue, all they do is bring a generator there and plug it in. All you have to do is fill up the generator, check the oil. That actually eliminates that issue of overflow. It just passes through the culvert.
Those are about the only comments I have right now. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Blake. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Recently, the Member and I spoke to the mayor of Aklavik on the Willow River Bridge. Three-quarters of the bridge is in Inuvik and a quarter of that bridge is still sitting in Fort St. John. The plan is, of course, to bring that bridge and place it over the river, bridge the river with it. That’s what we’re hoping to do and that’s what the community wants to do to have that access road to the gravel source.
Right now, since we’ve had the discussion, our people in the Beaufort-Delta, DOT people have been talking to the community and we’re finding we’re getting more… Right now we kind of have a verbal idea from them on what is needed, so we’re just trying to get the written proposal right now. Once we’re able to get that, we’re… I mean, we want to fund that. We bought the bridge so we want to be able to put it in. It’s something we all want to do.
The Tsiigehtchic ferry or the ferry that crosses at Tsiigehtchic was actually faster in the wintertime because it didn’t have to stop in Tsiigehtchic. It just went straight across. It was a straight line across, so it did go across faster. So that’s true.
On the Dempster Highway, it was a shame that there was no capital available this past summer, but we’re hoping to get going again this summer. We’ve put in our supplementary portion, our GNWT portion, supplementary appropriation from the Building Canada and GNWT money together for the work on the Dempster. What we’re thinking is that it’s going to be about $4 million to $4.5 million, most likely $4.5 million worth of work in there each summer. In this first package that we presented, the first bundle, I guess, we presented to the federal government was for four years.
We wanted to make sure that our proposal was successful at the federal level. We felt that putting a proposal in from Wrigley to Norman Wells, we had the greatest change of success than putting something in that went all the way to the Dempster, or even, for that matter, a proposal that went to Fort Good Hope, because to Norman Wells alone was a $700 million proposal and that $700 million proposal is not approved yet. We imagine that if we had put a $2 billion proposal in front of the federal government asking for a highway to be built to connect to the Dempster, it would be even longer in the approval process. We know that we have to start building the Mackenzie Valley Highway somewhere, and we felt that… This was a decision that was taken to Cabinet and it was felt that our best chance of success would be to take the highway from Wrigley to Norman Wells. That’s why that proposal is in. Of course, we all want to see the Mackenzie Valley Highway join the Dempster in the future. That’s something that would be very positive for the whole North.
The ferry contract, we are in the middle of determining a new relationship with people that are going to run the ferry. Right now the contract is due. We’ve had some discussion, our people in Inuvik have had some discussion with a Gwich’in organization. I’ve had some discussion with local organizations in both McPherson and Tsiigehtchic. We have had some discussion with Grizzly Marine, an individual company that is currently running the ferry for us. They have moved their manager to Fort McPherson, so that is something, trying to move some of the manager positions out of Inuvik and closer to where the action is. We are continuing with that, those negotiations, and we will keep the Member informed as we get closer to signing a new contract.
With the members on the other side of the Arctic Red River that are enduring some flooding problems, I would like to have the deputy minister respond to give some background. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Deputy minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It’s about kilometre 140 where we have overflow problems with the Dempster Highway. That has been there since the highway was built that we have known about those problems. An individual moved into that area and started to experience some difficulties with the overflow. This kind of came to a head about eight years ago when DOT along with Housing Corporation paid to move the individual out of the area to recognize the challenges that are there. I guess in the years that followed, the individual has chosen to move back.
In terms of heat trace, that is done, we use that in the springtime, but the water needs to be warm enough so that it keeps the culvert open once it starts to flow. It is the actual flow of the water that opens up the culvert. So that is more appropriate for getting culverts open in the springtime. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, deputy minister. Next I have on my list Mr. Nadli.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a couple of comments. The first one is on the winter crossing access road that leaves from Fort Providence. Formally it is the whole winter road section from the bridge to the peninsulas that jut out into the main river system. They are still there and there is interests by the people that reside in that area to try to upkeep and maintain that section of the road just for accessibility in terms of whether they might experience, hopefully not, an emergency situation and they have to drive into the community, either to the health centre or else perhaps dispatch maybe a fire truck out there for any reason if it’s needed.
For those purposes, on several occasions it has been noted that it would be nice to maintain that section of road, but at the same time, in the summertime we have a very high interest in terms of its accessibility by tourists that travel to the area at the winter crossing. They practically live out there. They’re not supposed to camp out there; it is day use areas, and they are basically out there to fish. It has become very interesting because, at the same time, it’s a highly valued area. I just wanted to see if the Minister would reassure the community that the community access programs that exist within the department will continue and that the community at some point will be able to access such a program like that.
Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Minister Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We agree that’s the right program to do exactly what the Member is requesting. We encourage the community to put in an access road proposal to pay to keep that road open. We can have the local guys talk to the leadership over there, wherever we are going to receive a proposal from, to see if they could obtain that proposal from them for using the access road money to keep that road open.
Just some other points. I think my colleague touched on the ongoing system to come up with at least a unit of some kind that could be available for people that travel on the highway. I know that this has been ongoing. I think the Department of Transportation and two other departments have been part of this exercise. They are trying to at least forge a semblance of unity in terms of trying to come up with an emergency system if it’s ever needed. I have heard the discussion in terms of the community fire departments are confined to communities, and if ever they are called upon to deal with a situation on the highway, there is always a question in terms of liability, costs, and so that is ongoing. This effort has been, at least from my understanding, for the past two years or so and it has been ongoing. I think at some point a decision has to be made in terms of ensuring the wellness and safety of the public and that this government will come up with at least a very clear system so that they can respond to emergency situations on the highway.
In that same light, basically it has been very exciting for small communities to be finally on the information highway. This is the expansion of the cellular coverage and it’s good. It has really enhanced communications. A lot of people are very active on social media. Young people are very tech savvy and are enthusiastically embracing the introduction of this technology into small communities.
Of course, there are some shortfalls. One of them is in cellular coverage, again in an emergency situation. There has been some discussions perhaps with NorthwesTel or with some other bodies that are able to provide those services, but if for example you have to have a high degree of traffic from Yellowknife all the way down to High Level, in between those communities sometimes you have blackouts and you don’t have a communications system. If something happens and you need to communicate with someone, timing and getting a response sometimes is critical. So if perhaps this government could encourage companies like NorthwesTel to see if they could expand and enhance their cellular coverage. If you drive down to Fort Providence, you should be able to at least link up to the cellular system at Blue Fish Creek and as you drive by the community and maybe as far south as Dory Point. So at least a person, if you have to, can walk to those points and make a call either to the RCMP or else the health centre to try and get some help. So if the department or government could encourage companies like that to try to, at least in the public interest, enhance cellular services.
Other points of course my colleagues have raised were the forest fires, the interruptions it caused in terms of people’s travelling, the roads being closed. This past summer was a very big experience. I think we learned a lot from it. People were practically stranded. People were stranded in their vehicles for perhaps maybe five days, seven days and these people have kids it was very hot during that time too. Hopefully we’ve learned so that perhaps this summer we will have a contingency plan in terms of how we’re going to be responding in the interest of public safety, of course, and at the same time in the interest of the travelling public.
The other thing, too, is that because of the burnt areas we’re going to have a high number of people that are picking mushrooms, a lot of activity in those areas. So, the department should have an understanding of how they’re going to deal with a situation like that.
The other point is the multi-modal strategy. I understand that’s ongoing. I think they’ve mentioned the idea of a rail expansion, but whether it’s in the works or maybe perhaps discussion.
Another idea is the marine transportation. There’s been discussion of perhaps dredging to make the barges more accessible to the communities, and we have to realize that the big lake is frozen right until about the middle of June. The Mackenzie River is free of ice through mid-May and it just makes sense that perhaps a port of some kind or a marine transportation hub perhaps, be imported to Fort Providence. I think that should be discussed at some point.
The other point I wanted to make is in terms of the tolls for private vehicles. I think we try not to create any disincentives for people that are in the small business sector. We need to be in a supportive capacity. Becoming a hindrance to small business growth should not be the role of government. We should be encouraging them. For those reasons, we should seriously consider how it is that we collect tolls on private vehicles that cross the bridge, in some instances.
The other thing is that I think we need to do a concerted effort to ensure that young people get their licences, you know, simultaneously when they graduate from high school and not wait until they’re about 26 or 30 years old to get their licences. It should just be a logical step. If you graduate, you should have your licence to drive. Mahsi.
Again, I can reiterate the fact that we will continue to work with MACA and HSS to develop some sort of emergency highway coverage. We’re working with the highway emergency and learning protocol, like I’ve indicated previously. We think it’s needed. It’s a matter of figuring out the logistics of how, how to do it. So, I mean, once the three departments are able to determine whose responsibility this would lie under. Right now it’s shared. The responsibility appears to be shared. We’re responsible for the highway, MACA is responsible for the municipal service that has the emergency vehicle, and potentially Health is responsible for the people that could end up injured and maybe who own the ambulances and so on. Now in the city of Yellowknife, for example, the city owns the ambulances.
So, all of those types of details must be worked out. I will have a discussion with my colleagues, maybe, to put some sort of timelines together for us to come up with something. I think we have dragged this on for a long time between the departments, so maybe it’s time for us to put some timelines together to see what we can do and determine when we can do it.
As a department, we encourage larger areas for cellular coverage. We recognize that once you drive around in Alberta you always have coverage. We know that. We do have the dead spots. You leave here, 25 to 30 kilometres from here you lose your cell service, pick it up before Rae, it drops off the other side of Behchoko and so on and so forth. If we could open the coverage completely that would be ideal. We’re not responsible for communication towers as a department, but we do encourage that they put them along the highway so that the coverage can be there.
The fires, we’re hoping that we’ve learned. We can’t help the individuals that were stranded. I mean, we couldn’t help that they were stranded. We recognize all of the work that the people in Fort Providence did to make lives a little easier for individuals that were stranded in Providence, and many people commented on people bringing food, water, blankets, whatever to the people that were stranded. We certainly appreciate that. As a government we thought that the community did a real good job of trying to support. I think the same type of thing would have happened had there been a lot of traffic near other communities, but we certainly heard about that in Fort Providence and that’s something we were happy that occurred.
Right now the rail service to Hay River is something that, as you know, we’ve talked about quite a bit. A recent announcement, or a recent upcoming announcement I suppose, I could say by the federal government to put maybe more infrastructure money into the railhead. So we’re hoping that at least the rail is improved to Hay River. Now, getting any rail out into Fort Providence I think could be a difficult thing. It would be a major federal project for sure by the federal government, a real major project for them to put rail out there. It’s an interesting thing on the marine because Cooper, a company out of BC does operate out of Fort Simpson and they’re able to move things on the Mackenzie River fairly quickly as a result of what the Member indicated, the Mackenzie River opens and they’re able to travel from Simpson up a lot sooner. It’s an NTCL decision whether or not they think they should have an operation out of Fort Providence, so it’s not something that the Department of Transportation would involve itself in. We would, as a government, utilize the service for sure if they were using NTCL out of Fort Providence. We utilize the service out of Hay River now. So I guess that’s something that the Member would have to discuss with that company.
I wasn’t 100 percent clear on the Deh Cho Bridge tolls. All I can say is that the people with private plates don’t pay tolls and people with commercial plates that are hauling and in vehicles over 4,500 kilograms are paying tolls. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Next on my list I have Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do have a few things I want to mention here with Transportation. The first is an observation that there was a 60 percent increase or variance from the budget we passed about this time last year for Transportation and the budget we look like we are ending up with. So, obviously a lot of changes to the budget during the year with the appropriations and so on.
Most of that was Vote 4 dollars, but $9 million of the $60 million increase, a $56 million increase was Vote 1 dollars. This was at a time when we’ve had a 50 percent reduction in net fiscal benefits. We had over $100 million in unanticipated and unplanned climate-related expenses and many other issues to face.
I am just wondering: would the Minister be able to forecast a little bit of where he anticipates this budget to be ending up and how much of that will be revenues and what we might be looking on down the line for Vote 1 dollars and Transportation’s budget, whether it’s going to be anything like the current year which is not all said and done yet.
There are a couple of projects that are eight-year projects for me so far. I’ve been through a number of Ministers of Transportation. It’s still unresolved and little progress, and important to the safety of my constituents. The first is the Detah road. Several years ago we finally had 4.5 kilometres reconstructed. That highway was never constructed. It was slapped together, as you know, and is in desperate need of reconstruction. So, I’m wondering when we will complete reconstruction of the Detah access road. I think we’d love to have an access road even in the condition of the Inuvik one.
The second one is the highway crossing between Niven Lake and the four-way stop entering Yellowknife. Again, this is now the eighth year of watching people walk along that highway, on the very edge of that highway, as we saw this morning and every morning, and this can sometimes be kids, strollers in the summertime and so on. It’s a serious issue. I appreciated quite a number of years ago when the Minister of Transportation finally put in some street lighting to help with that. Drivers have complained as much as pedestrians because it’s so dangerous and they know it. They’ve narrowly missed hitting people. Again, this has fallen through the cracks because it’s a city issue, it’s a GNWT issue, it’s your issue, it’s not my issue and so on. Meanwhile, the safety of our residents is compromised. For me, it’s disgusting. I’d like to see someone finally take an accountable role and get that resolved.
I heard about the Inuvik study. The money was budgeted for a study on that situation for the Inuvik Airport. I also believe I heard that money was being carried over. I want to know why that work wasn’t done, when it’s going to be done, and I’d like to know what other carry-overs we can expect from this department for work that hasn’t been completed or you are anticipating not being able to complete. That’s all I have, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m going to have the deputy minister or the director respond on the variance and the net fiscal benefit information and the Vote 1 revenues.
For the Detah road, we have all of the money in place now to reconstruct the Detah road completely.
We have some money in capital that we’ve spent and then the rest of it we’ve put in year one of the Building Canada Plan. This year when we did our first bundle, that’s work that’s going to be done under Building Canada Plan. The entire amount to finish that road, 100 percent, is in year one, so we’re pleased with that.
The Niven road, it was difficult to come up with a solution. The people would cross the road at Niven. Realistically the only safe way is an overpass or underpass, but at some point they can’t stay on the Niven side because if they keep staying on the Niven side as they get to the Explorer Hotel they’d come to a rock face and it’s additionally unsafe there. So they do have to cross and, unfortunately, in order to safely walk towards town, they do have to cross right at Niven. I guess we could come up with a solution. Like I said, we’d build something over top of the road, but it would be a very expensive solution. We know that the traffic has been slowed down to the other side, so at one point you were able to pick up speed again as we corner towards Niven, but now the speed sign has… You can only pick up speed, from 45 kilometres to 60, on the other side of Niven. Plus, we put in better lighting. Those are the things we were able to do that were feasible to do at that point. Certainly, there has to be a solution, but it’s expensive, and if we had to build a walking path from there all the way into the city on the other side of the Explorer, it would be another very expensive solution.
I’m going to, I guess, ask the deputy to speak on the variances and fiscal benefit Vote 1 and also why we’re asking for the Inuvik Airport. Actually, I’ll just briefly touch on it. It actually had to do with trying to come up with what we think is a good solution that’s going to work. But with that, I’ll ask the deputy minister to respond to some of the Member’s questions.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Deputy Minister Neudorf.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I certainly didn’t follow the Member’s details in terms of the variance, so if he’s got more details, we can certainly answer any specific questions there.
I would note that our main estimates from last fiscal year to proposed ’15-16 are proposed to go down by $6.7 million. The majority of that, $5.7 million, is due to amortization, so it’s not real cash, but our budget is in fact going down from last year to proposed for next year.
Overall, on the capital side of course we did ask for and receive $40 million for the Inuvik-Tuk highway so that we could…but it was just a cash flow adjustment. It was advancing the cash flow in order to reflect the progress that the contractor was expecting to make.
In terms of the Inuvik Airport dip repair, it did take time to come up with the right answer so that the engineers were comfortable that the solution we came up with would actually address the problem. We do think that there’s water moving underneath the runway and that has caused some material to be eroded away from underneath the runway, so that’s what we want to repair. That repair was started last fall, so we’re creating a cut-off ditch to divert the water away from the runway so that doesn’t occur again. Then the plan is, if the funding is carried over, that we will undertake to put a permanent repair of the runway next summer. Really, it’s just making sure that we had maximized the benefit of the resources that were allocated to the project. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, deputy minister. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks for those responses. It’s good to hear about the Detah road.
Might I suggest a flashing yellow light would not be very expensive for the highway between Niven Lake and the four-way stop?
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We will look at that solution. We will have our engineers… I suppose it will have to do with the city, also. The engineers and the city will take a look at that, the flashing light.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Committee, noting the time, I will rise and report progress. Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Thank you, witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber.
