The planning work is going on and has been going on now since the end of the fire season. We will have a compilation of all the feedback and responses and recommendations on a go forward basis by the end of March. That work is being done and funded through the forest division and the staff we have on our payroll. With an internal exercise, as well, we’ve been going out to the regions. I’d ask the deputy if he would want to add a bit more information about the work that’s been in done in anticipation of wrapping up last year and lessons learned for next year.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Deputy Minister Campbell.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Over the past number of months after the 2014 fire season we’ve been doing a lot of assessing of some of the challenges that we faced in 2014. Some of it is doable, no doubt to make some changes going forward for this season, but most of it, because of the business planning processes, we will have to come in with the next cycle in some of the areas where we’re challenged with fiscal resources, et cetera. But as I mentioned yesterday, we did an internal review shortly after the season and it landed on half a dozen themes that we felt needed a closer look at. Over the last short while here continuing over into the end of this month we are doing, of course, the public engagement in the regional centres, and some of the things, again, we’re hearing is aligning with some of the themes that we looked at internally. We are going to be working back from the end of March with a report that will hopefully address those challenges that we faced and just identify some of the items that we looked at internally and some of the stuff that we’re hearing from the community engagement.
Of course, we’re looking at the safety aspect. We recognize we need a safety management plan on reporting and tracking of incidents, et cetera. The work, the rest, the guidelines, we need to have proper procedures in place. Some of the human resource challenges that we were faced with, some of the financial challenges and practices, some of the stakeholder engagement and communications. We absolutely have to look and review our Wildland Fire Protection Policy. Although we do recognize it is a sound policy, we will look at that as well and, of course, the overall operations of the fire programs looked at.
The public feedback we’re hearing, and I had mentioned some of the stuff, is aligning. It’s in relation to improved communications before, during and post-fire events, emergency response, planning, working with other departments, governments in that area, the values at risk on the landscape approaches to protecting values at risk, the human and financial resource allocation again, and of course the big part on communication, educating all the homeowners on fire smart practices, et cetera. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and the deputy minister for that. It sounds like a very comprehensive look. It would have been very nice, of course, to have had that in hand as we review this budget and as the department develop the budget. I understand that the Minister will bring this to committee at the end of March. I guess I want to confirm that.
Is that the intent, that committee will hear about that at the end of March and discuss any budget implications at that time?
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Miltenberger.
Yes, Mr. Chairman, that’s the intent. Thank you.
Thank you. I look forward to that. Will we see some policy gaps being identified, and if they have, will we be seeing some proposals to address them?
Yes, we want to identify if there are gaps, be it in policy or procedures or standard operating procedures as well as any broader structural issues, equipment issues. This is a very comprehensive review, so we will be seeking to address those in anticipation of being ready for the upcoming season. Thank you.
I’d like to ask the Minister if he’s aware of a policy gap associated with the compensation for fire losses only being available to trappers and not to others that live on the land and make their living off the land and through important roles in remote locations.
We have one specifically designated pot of money. The maximum is, I believe, about $30,000 for trappers’ cabins. We have no compensation fund or policy for any folks that choose to live in the hinterland. It could be a policy decision. If that’s going to be the role of government to compensate everybody that lives out on the land, then we need to have a very careful look at that because I’m assuming it would be very expensive. Is that our role? It’s been identified because of some of the occurrences last fire season, but clearly, as a government, we’re not in a position nor do we have a fund that will allow us to do more than provide very modest compensation that is now available to those folks that are trapping. Thank you.
Would the Minister commit to doing an inventory of the number of people that live out on the land? I don’t recall suggesting that the compensation would need to be more than a trapper receives, although perhaps there would be consideration for that since trappers don’t typically live on the land these days. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, yes, we’ll look at talking to our colleagues from Lands and such. We can probably get a number of folks that live outside community boundaries. Thank you.
Mr. Chair, we’re not talking about people that live outside community boundaries; we’re talking about people that live on the land away from civilization and make their living on the land. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, we’ll see what numbers we can get, how specific a listing we can get from recreational cabins, I suppose, to a full… I’ll see if we have the information on full-time inhabitants that live outside of community boundaries full time in abodes in the hinterland and those that do it full time and commute into work or those at full time living off the land. I’m not quite sure the designation that the Member is asking for. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Bromley, your time has expired. If you need to come back, just let the chair know. Continuing on with forest management, I have Mr. Blake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Under community protection research, last year one of the communities wanted to do some fire protection in the community and put a fireguard around the community, which is Fort McPherson, but because the season got so busy here, they never did get around to that work. Also, Tsiigehtchic is really at risk because we live right close to the forest there. If we ever had a large fire in these areas with a big south wind, these communities would be at risk.
I’d like to know if the department is going to be working with these communities here over the spring to make sure we have this in place and also possibly do a back burn before it gets too dry. I think that it’s better to be prepared in case anything happens. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As part of the review process from last fire season, as we go into the communities and into the regions, that discussion is taking place. We don’t have a big pot of money set aside. We would work with communities. We would work with individuals. We would look at putting the fire crews to work, for example, if they’re not otherwise occupied in communities, to help doing some of that work. Once again, we are encouraging individuals to fire smart all their own properties and whatever resources that communities may have, as well, to add to that. We will work with communities on looking at how we can collectively move ahead on those fire smart plans in the communities. Thank you.
Mr. Chair, over this past summer here we spent in the neighbourhood of $60 million, so I think we should have, as a department, put more funds into this. We know the dry season is upon us. I think that we should have budgeted for that. To spend, whether it’s $100,000 to get all the communities in the NWT prepared, I think that’s good planning. That should be undertaken this spring. Thank you.
As far as I’m aware, all the communities have their fire protection plans, and it’s just an issue now between the communities and ENR and individuals in looking at implementing them. Once again, we are fiscally challenged, as well, so we don’t have a big, significant amount of money put aside that’s going to allow us to go and take on that full cost of going to every community in the boreal forest on our own as an ENR initiative. Thank you.
Many times we always hear that we don’t have funds, but when an emergency arises, all of a sudden, whether its $2 million, $10 million or $60 million it just seems to pop out of nowhere. I think it’s very important we set aside… You know, it’s not a large amount of money. Fifty to 100 thousand dollars is a small price to pay to have these communities up to speed and prepared. That’s the main thing that we have to be for this coming season. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Blake. For that we’ll go to the deputy minister, Mr. Campbell.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We have a small amount at this point. My understanding is it’s around $30,000 that’s available to work with communities on fire smarting their communities. Of course, we have to partner, so it’s a limited amount.
We did do a program review in 2010 which identified this area as a gap. Again, of course, there are fiscal challenges. It is something that’s come up again as part of our internal review and our public engagement, and we definitely have to look at creative ways here to increase and use our resources to mitigate risk to communities to fire. But at this point, again because of the business planning process, we’re going to work with our existing dollars and try to maximize those resources. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Just one more thing there. The lookout tower at Shiltee Rock, is the department going to work with the community to ensure that it’s built and in place before the fire season?
It is on the capital plan for this year to build that tower. We want to work with the community. Absolutely, we will be following up. We did put out a tender recently. There were no takers. Again, we’re going to go back and work with the Gwich’in to see if we can land on an approach going forward so the tower is built in the upcoming season. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I know last year the community was very interested in negotiating this, so is the Minister willing to either sole source it to the community or negotiate with the community to ensure this is in place before this spring season? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister Miltenberger.
Mr. Chair, as the deputy pointed out, there were no takers last go around, so we will go back in and see if there’s any interest at the community level to get this tower built. Thank you.
I will be willing to work with the Minister and also the community. I know they have shown interest in getting this work and making sure that it’s done and in place, whether it’s early June. If the department is willing, we’ll make sure that happens. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Blake. I believe that was more of a comment, unless the Minister wants to conclude. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to the Member for his offer of working with us in the community. We will be following up. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Committee, we are on forest management. Continuing on with questions, we have Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The first question I have for the Minister and department is just in terms of the fire suppression budget. The actuals in 2013-14 were about $20 million, and the revised for last year was $54 million. In a news article that was in one of last week’s papers, the Minister said that funding for the wildland fire management is based on a 10-year average of suppression expenses. With these numbers that are in place, especially with the revised estimates coming in this year, you would think the budget for the ’15-16 year would be increased if he’s, in fact, going by the 10-year average.
Can I ask the Minister, based on his funding formula, why hasn’t this budget increased for fire suppression? In fact, it went down by about $118,000. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Maybe I wasn’t quite as clear as I could have been, but the intent is to move to a 10-year moving average. We haven’t done that yet. That says when we move into next year’s budget that’s what we’re going to be looking at doing as we come forward with the budget plans.
In regards to the $118,000, I’ll ask the deputy to clarify that one particular issue. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Deputy Minister Campbell.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The reduction of just over $100,000 in the suppression budget is a result of ENR working with Public Works and Services on procurement shared services. We, over the decades, had a system in place where we utilized six individuals at our Fire Centre to undertake different aspects of the procurement area for fire suppression. So, the dollars are still in fire suppression, but instead of moving a PY out of ENR to Public Works, we provided the funding under the suppression budget to cover that. They have committed. That resource will be working in our facility during fire suppression times, the fire season, and working on procurement shared services with that. So, the reduction of that $118,000 is a result of that process. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Moses.
Thank you for the explanation. Also, I know that discussions have already been going on in the communities. Just referring back, because we don’t have the report in front of us so we have to go by what has been quoted in some of the papers, it talks about some of our experts who have been in the field a long time, stating that in some of the cases a personal opinion is that this is going to be a fairly dry season, if not drier than last year. As I mentioned in briefings before, I’ve talked to people in the fire suppression division and they’re saying the same things.
It’s also mentioned here that usually drought cycles are, on average, about three years. It was mentioned that last year was their first year, so we can be expecting two more summers of something similar. I think that needs to be taken into account when we’re passing a budget, instead of having to come back to committee with these special warrants to get funding to fund our fire suppression crews, especially when it’s also noted that there were a lot of fires but a lot of severe fires that I think put about seven communities at risk last year.
There have been some really good questions from Members during this exchange here. I’m glad to hear that we’re going to be getting a report and maybe a debrief in March and that will be going to committee and that were about a half dozen themes that were discussed. It will be interesting to see what those are.
I know, from last year, the department was actually putting call-outs for people to come and volunteer to fight fires. You know, when we have management and guys that need to be on the fire line and yet we’re getting people off the streets to come and fight fires, there’s a significant amount of training to protect the safety of these emergency firefighters, as they’re known.
Would the department look at creating some type of emergency firefighter training at the beginning of the season and creating a database from that so that at the end of the year we’re not grabbing people off the streets and that we can have a database that we can rely on, rather than, I wouldn’t say frantically looking for people to come jump on the fire lines, but it would be a good planning tool for another dry season that we’re looking at. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We’re in year four of drought, and cycles could go four to five years. So I agree with the Member, I’ve been making the same observations based on just what we’ve seen from lack of major fall rains to the snow pack this year and the fact that we’re in such deep drought, it will take a significant amount of snow to affect that and we anticipate it could be a long, hot summer.
We learned last fire season, which was by far and away the biggest we’ve ever had, on the need to recruit internally in the Northwest Territories. We can’t rely on southern resources because they, as well, are facing extreme weather events. So we have learned from last year, we’ve put those lessons into play and I’ll ask the deputy to lay out what we’ve done and it in fact addresses the issue that the Member is talking about.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Deputy Minister Campbell.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to touch briefly on the drought conditions and some of the folks that are looking at what we’re facing over the winter here and some predictions. We, of course, have our snow monitoring stations in the Northwest Territories. We also work with NTPC, work with Environment Canada, and those surveys, the big survey anyway of that data, the collection of that data is in late March. However, we’re monitoring the snow conditions, of course, at some of the airports in the Northwest Territories and I’ve got to say at this point, at the initial glance at that information, that we’re looking at snowfall at this point equivalent to the total snowfall we received last year. So we’re a little ahead, but still we’re in drought condition and we need a lot of snow from here on in to have an impact on the drought conditions.
Regarding emergency firefighter training, the commitment is there to start early this year training emergency firefighters. We did a lot of training last summer. I mentioned yesterday we were close to training 600 firefighters over and above our crews. So we do and have always had a database on emergency firefighters, certified firefighters and we do use that database. We did use it again last year. So, again, we’ve built it up considerably after last year. However, we are going to continue training this year and we are committed to starting the training early. Thank you
Thank you, Deputy Minister Campbell. Mr. Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m glad to hear that that database does exist and now we’ve increased it by about 600 new emergency firefighters and that we’re still looking at starting that training early on in the season.
It was mentioned earlier about compensation for equipment lost to hunters and trappers, or even property, cabins. I’m not sure how many cabins or property were damaged during the last fire season, but rather than looking at increasing that budget and providing compensation to those that live on the land or those that keep their equipment on the land for hunting and trapping I think the department would be better suited moving forward in terms of creating an awareness campaign.
Based on last year, everybody knows what happened last year in the Northwest Territories and if they had a list in terms of how many properties were damaged, how many people lost equipment and that, putting, not a call-out, but just awareness of the people who live on the land or do their harvesting on the land, that they should start taking precautions early on in the season of their own so that should a fire spark next to their property that they’re not rushing out there to try to do some clearing or do some saving of property and putting other lives in danger. I think the department could be projective on this and create awareness before the dry season. Has that been discussed? Is the department looking at doing something like that early in the fire season? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is one of the issues that have come up during the ensuing discussions post-fire season, and it’s one of the themes in terms of the education, prevention and preparation. Yes, we are following up on it. We do it as a matter of course, but there’s added emphasis on it now this year, both in the communities getting individuals to fire smart, take their matters that they can into their own hands, and then we will try to be there as well. So, yes, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Committee, we are on page 105, forest management, operations. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I ran out of time there as the Minister was wondering about how to define people who live in situations that I was trying to describe. I just thought I’d make the offer to work with him on that. Some of the things that come to mind is they get most of their food off the land from hunting and gathering. If they have children, the children are either home schooled or they have to leave home to go to school because schools are not accessible on a daily basis. The residents themselves rarely get into town and that sort of thing.
Again, I offer to help the Minister to help the Minister on that definition. Thank you.
