Agreed.
Okay, so we will pass by the page which has the bill number and the title and go to the clauses. Bill 43, An Act to Amend the Borrowing Authorization Act, clause 1.
---Clauses 1 and 2 approved
Thank you. Bill 43, An Act to Amend the Borrowing Authorization Act, as a whole.
Agreed.
Thank you. Does committee agree that Bill 43, An Act to Amend the Borrowing Authorization Act, is now ready for third reading?
Agreed.
Agreed. Thank you. Bill 43 is now deemed ready for third reading. Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Thank you, senior officials. I will now ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses from the Chamber.
We will now return to our main estimates. We were working on the Department of Environment and Natural Resources. I’d like to ask Minister Miltenberger if he’d like to bring witnesses into the Chamber.
Yes, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Agreed. I will ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort ENR witnesses to the table.
Minister Miltenberger, again for the record today, could you please introduce your witnesses.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I have with me Ernie Campbell, deputy minister; and Susan Craig, director of finance and administration for ENR. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. When we adjourned yesterday, we were on page 105, forest management, operations expenditure summary, $32.632 million.
Agreed.
Agreed. Thank you. Page 106, forest management, grants, contributions and transfers, total grants and contributions, $210,000.
Agreed.
Agreed. Thank you. Forest management, active positions, information item. Any questions?
Agreed.
Agreed. Thank you. Page 109, water resources, operations expenditure summary, $11.562 million.
Agreed.
Agreed. Thank you. Water resources, grants, contributions and transfers, total contributions, $1.1 million.
Agreed.
Agreed. Thank you. Water resources, active positions, information item. Any questions?
Agreed.
Thank you. Page 113, wildlife, operations expenditure summary… We’ll go back to page 111, water resources, active positions, information item. Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to ask about one position in the Sahtu that deals with the water quality. The application by Imperial Oil and 10-year renewal licence for their operation indicated that they are going to use a lot of water from the Mackenzie River over the 10-year period. The big issue for me is I believe it’s downstream from the Imperial Oil at Fort Good Hope where the quality of water has been questioned. Imperial Oil is using not millions but billions of litres of water that’s going to be used for their operation and they’re going to be pumping a lot of water back into the river after it’s recycled through the plant.
I want to ask the Minister on this one position in the Sahtu for the water operations, is this person hearing the concerns of the people in Good Hope as to the quantity or the quality of the water that’s been flowing downstream? Because they use the water from the Mackenzie River for their personal use for drinking and bathing and all the other good stuff. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Madam Chair. This position is currently in the process of being staffed. I understand they have a successful candidate and hopefully, in the next few weeks, will be operational and up and running. Thank you.
I’m so happy, Madam Chair, because I know the people in Fort Good Hope will be happy because, again, the application by Imperial Oil is to take out billions of litres of water and use it for their operations and half of those billions are going back into the Mackenzie River and flowing down towards Fort Good Hope and Tsiigehtchic and down to the Arctic Ocean. So this person is going to be a key person to work with the community of Fort Good Hope.
My understanding again, and I appreciate the Minister’s response, is this person then going to be available to help the residents of Fort Good Hope, because they have some major concerns about this situation here and this is a real concern for the people in Fort Good Hope. This has been going on for many, many years, since the early ‘20s, and this is a long time, you know, and so this should be on everybody’s radar, especially in our region.
Am I correct in my understanding that this person in the Sahtu region is going to be looking at this type of situation in regards to the water quality in the Mackenzie River as per our Sahtu Land Claim Agreement? Thank you.
The Member is correct; this individual will be part of a broader water team that exists in the Government of the Northwest Territories. We’ve invested, over the last five years or so, millions of dollars in setting up community-based water monitoring initiatives and stations and in the Member’s constituency as well. Where the testing is going on, results are being collected. To address some of the issues the Member has talked about, we’re very aware of the concerns of the folks in Good Hope, for example, and this person will be an added resource to work with all the other resources we have that deal with water and effects on the environment. Thank you.
Just a short question as to if the Minister can provide me the number of water testing sites, I believe, along the Mackenzie that fall within the jurisdictions of the Sahtu region.
We’ll provide that information. In fact, we’ll commit to provide the information for all the sites across the territory so people can see the length and breadth of the network and the coverage it provides. Thank you.
I appreciate that. Is this person able to help the communities, and I’m looking mostly at Fort Good Hope and maybe even Tulita, as to translating the language of a licence like Imperial Oil with all the chemicals and scientific jargon and technical wording into plain English so our people can understand what Imperial Oil is reporting? They do give a report but it’s a very highly technical, engineering, scientific report so we need a person that then can translate, saying this is what they’re saying, these are the chemicals that Imperial Oil is using, this is what’s been processed through the plant, coming out of the plant to go back into the Mackenzie River.
Again, there are billions of litres of water going back once it’s pumped out of the Mackenzie River. Have there been any impacts, you know, and this is what’s flowing down 140-some-odd kilometres to Fort Good Hope. What’s the impact? Because Fort Good Hope has a water plant down below the community that pumps the water out of there and into their water reservoir which gets pumped into people’s homes. So this is what they’re saying. This is an issue that’s been on the radar for the community for the last couple of years, more so because we’re starting to realize that over the years Imperial Oil has sort of been getting a free ride on the use of the Mackenzie River and the amount of water coming out for their operations and now people are starting to realize that these licences are for 10 years. It’s not a few million litres of water; it’s billions that are being pumped out and about billions being pumped back into the Mackenzie. So I just want to know if the scope of the personnel in the Sahtu are bringing some workshops or some meetings for the people on these technical reports that government or Imperial submit for public hearings or applications. Thank you.
I want to reassure the Member that this position would be able to provide some support in that area. There also is in Sahtu a fairly sophisticated, I think, well-versed, well-experienced group of people that work in the communities and the various boards that are there. So, between us all, we will be looking to make sure that we understand clearly the technical nature of all the applications that are submitted, and this water person will be one of the folks that are key in that regard. Thank you.
I do take that to heart and I do agree with the Minister that they’re very capable people working in various boards and governments and that they can work together. I just wanted to make sure that we have a coordinated approach because we need to know that what’s being tested for in the Mackenzie River and what’s not being tested for is so important. So we need to know for sure that this information comes out in our own language when we explain this to the community. So I’ll take that as a good response from the Minister and I’ll leave it at that and appreciate what he’s telling me this afternoon. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. I’ll take that as a final comment. Committee, we’re on page 111. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’d just like to follow up on my colleague. That was a very interesting discussion. I know people in the Sahtu, and certainly in all of the Northwest Territories were shocked with the national survey of spills to find that Imperial Oil as the highest culprit, so to speak, and the consequences had been minimal to nothing. But mostly, even local people were shocked by the information. Again, I appreciate my colleague bringing this up.
I’d just ask the Minister, will this position ensure that that sort of information is not a surprise, that people are well informed about it? While I’m at it, would this person also contribute to good information on which to base the new protocol on generating income for water licences that reflects the true value of the water being used, the billions of gallons, billions of litres that are being used and put into this…(inaudible)… Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This position which came over with part of the devolution transfer is going to have a key role in the region. It’s going to give us a specialized person on water for the first time in the region. The issue of tracking, understanding and helping with plain language, trying to keep track of all the things that are happening in the region in terms of compliance and spills would be one of the functions. But what I would ask, Mr. Chairman, with your indulgence, is the deputy to speak a bit further to some of the specifics in terms of the job requirements.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Campbell.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. This position will also help with the partnerships, the community-based monitoring in particular. Part of that process includes communities in the Sahtu as well. We know that with Imperial Oil that water licence renewal process is a federal process and it’s in the hands of the federal Minister at this point; however, through the partnerships we work with our federal agencies and, of course, with the communities, and do the assessments, the monitoring, the testing, and along, again, with our community-based monitors and, as well, we do have scientists, experts in headquarters that work with the communities as well. The answer is yes, it is definitely part of the mix here in working with the communities in the Sahtu.
Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Continuing on with questions, I have Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have one other question. An interesting point that the renewal of the licence is in the federal government’s hands and the federal government is part owner of Imperial Oil oilfield. That leads to other questions. Anyhow, I’m not going to belabour on that point here.
My other question I have for the Minister has probably to do also with the federal government, is the Great Bear Lake area where I think it was 700,000 tonnes of material that was dumped into the lake. I know that they are going through a process of that remediation cleanup and it has to do with the water. I might be out of sync here as to the question. I’m just saying because it’s a water issue and the Deline community has been working closely with the federal government on the recommendations, but it has to do with water and I’m just trying to sneak that in, I guess, as to where the territorial government is in regard to the issue of cleaning up the amount that was quoted to me by the report that was 700,000 tonnes from the mining industry that was dumped into Great Bear Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. I will continue on with this water question. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m just assuming Great Bear. We’re talking Port Radium? We’ll commit to get back to the Member on the issue of remediated sites, waste sites. I’m thinking, but I don’t have the list before me, that that might be one of the ones that the federal government still has responsibility for. But we’ll double check that and we’ll get that information back to the Member.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Committee, we’re on page 111, water resources, active positions, information item. Any questions?
Agreed.
Committee, page 113, wildlife, operations expenditure summary, $15.096 million. Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. My questions have to do with a letter that was sent to the Minister on November 19th. I’m not too sure if the Minister wants to see a copy. It is from the Sahtu Renewable Resources Board, signed by the interim chair of the board, Paul Latour, and Chief Leonard Kenny. It was addressed to the Minister and it talked about the request for the feedback on the issues considering the harvesters for caribou, allocations for the Bluenose-East caribou. In there, they’ve made seven points, addressed seven points of consensus presented to the department, and they want to know the feedback on these seven points from this department. I could share the letter with the Minister or go on memory there.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Miltenberger.
