Debates of March 3, 2015 (day 69)

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I have a question here in regards to the opening comments from the Minister. The last page of his opening comments talks about decentralizing nine positions into regional centres. I look at the figures on this page and compare them to 2014-15, also on this page, and I don’t see where the changes are. There’s an additional nine positions. But I guess if we’re decentralizing positions, are we adding positions or are we decentralizing positions that exist already? If I can get an explanation of what these nine positions are, that would be my first question. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. The nine positions that are going out to regional centres is one registrar of appeals; two linguists, Aboriginal Languages Secretariat; one registrar, teacher certification; and also five service officers that I have highlighted earlier. That’s nine in total going out to the regional centres. Mahsi.

Thanks to the Minister. Are they all new positions? There’s an increase of nine positions from 2014-15 to 2015-16. Thank you.

Mr. Chair, there are nine positions. Five are new and four are from the existing pool that we have within Education, Culture and Employment. Mahsi.

Thanks to the Minister. We have four current positions but there is an increase of nine. So there are five service officers. I understand that. The other four new positions, where are they going? What positions are they? Thank you.

Mr. Chair, we have three positions going to Hay River, one to Beaufort-Delta. The three positions going to Hay River area linguist, Aboriginal language services; a registrar, teacher certification in South Slave; a registrar of appeals in the South Slave, as well, so those three in Hay River and one linguist, Aboriginal languages in the Beaufort-Delta, so those are the four positions that are going to regions. Mahsi.

I don’t think the Minister understood what I was asking. There was an increase of nine positions from last budget year to this one. Five of them are service officers. The other four are new positions. What are they? Thank you.

Mr. Chair, there are five positions, employment service officers, and one employment service officer for a PY in Behchoko is recorded as North Slave. There’s also an assistant deputy minister position that is added to the aid and review of supervision of corporate services. That’s Mr. Lovely here. Three French language translators are responsible for the implementation of the department’s French language operating plan. Mahsi.

Mr. Chair, just to confirm, that’s three translators and an assistant deputy minister. Are they the four new positions in addition to the service officers? Thank you.

Mr. Chair, yes, that’s correct.

Thanks to the Minister. So, there are five new positions that are being decentralized, the service officers. The other four positions that he’s mentioned, the two linguists and the two registrars, I guess, are those positions filled at the moment? Thank you.

At this point they’re not filled yet. Mahsi.

I guess I would like to know from the Minister, if these positions are not filled, will they be decentralized first and then filled, or will they be filled and then decentralized? Thank you.

Mr. Chair, part of the plan is to decentralize these positions and then fill the positions from there. Mahsi.

That’s good. Thanks, Mr. Chair. I’m done.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Committee, we’re on page 59, active position summary, information item. Any questions?

Speaker: SOME HON. MEMBERS

Agreed.

Thank you, committee. Page 61, corporate management. Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a few questions here. I see the department or this activity includes the overall development, design and planning of capital infrastructure projects. As we know, there’s been a real paucity of infrastructure for the Department of Education over the last three years in the order of 2 or 3 percent of the infrastructure budget. I’m wondering, given the many requests the Minister has heard, at least for the region I’m in, can we expect that there will be significant proposals coming forward to address some of the infrastructure deficiencies we see in, for example, some of the schools in Yellowknife and other areas. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. We’ll go to Mr. Lovely.

Speaker: MR. LOVELY

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There is a capital planning process where we identify our needs and the risks associated with each one of those needs and put them forward through with all other GNWT needs as well. Those are ranked according to priority in terms of the highest risks and then it goes through that process and the end result is the capital plan that comes forward to standing committee. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Lovely. Mr. Bromley.

Thank you. I understand the theory there. Of course, there’s a record of us going through that process and then having them fall off that list. I’m just wondering: is the Minister planning on pushing for some capital infrastructure projects that are significant and above the 2 or 3 percent of government infrastructure projects for 2015-16? Oh, I guess we’ve already proved that. Maybe I better make it the next year. How many years? Oh, my gosh. We have so many years of little to no infrastructure investment by this department, one of our biggest…our second biggest department, I think. Let’s look forward a little bit, and maybe this is what it takes is this sort of lead time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. As you are probably aware, over the years we had a number of major infrastructures in the past. Now that we’re going through another process of infrastructure debates these coming few months, obviously those high priorities will be brought forward. At the end of the day, the decision will be made by the committee that’s been established to deal with the capital infrastructure. We as the department bring forward our priority that we feel should be addressed within the schools or at the community level. We’ll continue to push that forward as part of the process. Like I said, at the end of the day, the decision has to come down from the capital planning, the committee that decides on the process itself.

Thanks to the Minister for that response. I appreciate, I guess, that I now know I am dealing with this in a timely way, given that this will be discussed in the next few months. So, I guess I would ask the Minister, is he prepared to push for school projects to finally be addressed in Yellowknife and including Aurora College to try and get them on the capital as soon as possible as a priority of this department?

There is, obviously, a 20-year plan for schools, Yellowknife and also across the Northwest Territories. Based on that, if there is a need for a retrofit or a renovation or replacement of schools, those are discussions that we need to have, my department and the PWS, and put into the hopper of the capital planning process. I don’t have that information in front of me. We will be debating that. We will be putting forward a proposal on the infrastructure that will be coming forward. What the Member is referring to, obviously the Yellowknife area, if there is going to be any infrastructure coming down the hopper, those are decisions that we need to have as a department and we need to have discussion. It is coming forward as part of the planning process.

I guess I’ll have to leave it at that. Again, I’m not encouraged. This Minister has absolutely failed our education infrastructure in this area and the need just accumulates year after year, as he well knows.

The second area I want to talk about is the reform and innovation section that leads major innovation and reform initiatives. I’d like to talk a little bit about the possibility of a guaranteed basic income initiative. Would the Minister consider looking at that concept, looking at the research that’s been done, looking at the Dauphin study and the gains that were achieved and lasted for 13 years, and considering how it might be tested as an innovative way to address some of our income assistance needs and so on in one of our regions, and I don’t have a druthers on which region.

I think there is considerable interest in this tool across the country and internationally, and I think partly because of the clear evidence of the Dauphin study. They found that even those families, and this was a top-up of basic income, so for many families they didn’t get any dollars. It was just that they had the assurance that if their income fell below a certain amount they would get topped up. Simply that assurance, that security had almost the same effect. Higher graduation rates. Women chose to have children in later years. They delayed having children for a few years. Health benefits and so on. Absolutely amazing benefits, the sort of benefits that we are looking for. I’m serious when I ask the Minister if he would look into it and consider a test case in the Northwest Territories. I don’t think it would be any more expensive than our rapidly increasing income assistance budget, but perhaps an assessment could look at that.

I just want to reflect back on, obviously, the infrastructure. Obviously, we have not failed as a department. We spend millions on infrastructure such as Inuvik’s East Three School, the Tulita school, brand new schools. We shouldn’t be using those terms when we’ve done so much as a department. We will continue to push that forward. We’re at the end of our Assembly. Usually when the capital infrastructure such as a huge initiative that is coming forward, obviously, it is the beginning of a new term.

At the same time, if there is a request, I would consider looking at a guaranteed income support for clientele. We have been working through a Labour Market Development Agreement that we have. There is flexibility there where having a focus on individuals that can pursue workforce placements. I will continue to push that forward because it’s part of the Canada Job Fund and provided flexibility for our department to focus on those individuals that fall through the cracks, individuals that are employable. To have another area of initiative where a guaranteed income support for all people of the Northwest Territories, we can look at it and see where that takes us, how much it’s going to cost us at the initial stage.

There was an example in Manitoba, $17 million in 1974, 1,000 people. If we’re looking at 1,000 people at today’s number, that’s very substantial to guarantee income. But we offset income, as well, through the Labour Market Agreement. We’re doing that already. Maybe there is room for improvement. Obviously, that’s an area that my department will certainly explore. Having those 3,100 cases of individual clientele, obviously, the number we like to see it go down. We like to see those numbers going to enter workforce development. Those will be my goals and objectives as the Minister responsible to make sure those individuals are ready with the tools that are required to enter the workforce.

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Committee, we’re on page 61, corporate management, operations expenditure summary. Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wanted to ask a question here with regard to the, I guess it’s the org chart for lack of a better way of putting it for the department, and I’m presuming corporate management is where this new assistant deputy minister positon is going. I see later on there’s an increase in one PY. Could I get, from the Minister, a bit of an outline of how many positions we have in upper management in the department? I thought we had quite a few assistants and a number of high-level management-type positions already. I’m wondering why we need another assistant manager. How many have we got and what are their functions?

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. We have a deputy minister. Today we have a deputy minister, we have an associate deputy minister, we have an assistant deputy minister, two of them. Now we have added Olin Lovely. We’re going to have Dana Heide soon to retire. Basically, Olin is taking over Dana Heide’s position. At the end of the day, it’s still the same numbers. It’s just a change of titles.

Mr. Chair, I got a little confused there. So we have deputy minister, we have an associate – I believe that’s Mr. Heide – and we have two assistant DMs. Mr. Heide is retiring soon, so we have three now, or we have four now, or we’re going back to three? I got lost there. Thanks.

We have three ADMs today. We have an associate deputy, so three deputies and an associate, but the associate term will be up in June. So instead of three, four, five, we’ll be back to four again, three associate deputy ministers and a deputy minister. Mahsi.

I think I got that. Thanks, Mr. Chair. That’s enough.

Thank you. Continuing on questions on page 61, I have Mr. Bromley.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Just a little bit of follow-up and then one more area. First of all, I want to correct the Minister. I didn’t say it was a failure across all regions; I said it was a failure in my region specifically in Yellowknife. If the Minister had been with us on our tour of Aurora College Yellowknife Campus, I probably wouldn’t have seen him because we had to squeeze single file through the areas, and if anybody stood up from a desk, that stopped our procession and you would have been out of sight. This has been a known situation for a long time now. Talk about sardines in a tin can. It was pretty amazing. We well know the issues at Mildred Hall, at Sissons and so on. So I just want to correct that.

I think the Minister has done a stellar job in the Beaufort-Delta for example – I didn’t say anything about that – and in the Sahtu and so on in terms of infrastructure, but for three years of a paltry $2 million or $3 million of education infrastructure across the whole Northwest Territories and letting issues drop off the plans that have been referred to, I’d say, yes, there’s a basis for my conclusion.

I want to express appreciation for the Minister being open to looking into the possibility of a guaranteed basic income, a form of that. I’m interested in learning more about how that relates to the labour force issue and how they offset income or supplement income somehow. But I think there’s more than one way to skin a cat, so I would be very open to learning more about that.

My last issue is the education system, generally with the large 10-year review or comprehensive review of the entire education system that’s being planned, and my reference earlier to the Finnish education system which I gave a Member’s statement on and had some questions for the Minister. He was interested and I know he’s explored that system and is aware of their success and their high stature because of that success around the world. I’m wondering, as we do this comprehensive education review, where is the Minister at in terms of looking at how we can adopt and adapt some of the Finnish approach, or is there a perspective already on where we are at with that?

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. I would like to thank the Member for addressing this particular area where it’s been addressed in the House as well. I did show interest a while ago, how the Finnish overhauled their education structure. This is an area that my department has been exploring and continues to do so because we have to learn from the best practices from other jurisdictions as well. If this is an area that will benefit the Northwest Territories, by all means, we will tackle that issue. It is at preliminary stages. We’re still compiling that information. It’s not only in that country, other countries are very successful that we are collecting information from as well. Mahsi.

I thank the Minister for that. I will leave it at that, I just wanted to raise that possibility. It sounds like a comprehensive review will take a bit of time. I am anxious to plant seeds, if possible, at the early stages of this. I appreciate the Minister’s response. That’s all I had on this page. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that we report progress.

---Carried

I will rise and report progress. I’d like to thank our witnesses here today. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you would please escort the witnesses out of the Chamber. Thank you.

Report of Committee of the Whole