Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess I’ll have one question about the Hay River Health and Social Services Pension Plan. My colleague was asking about rolling them into the GNWT. I guess the Department of Health is working on this. Do we have knowledge about what other departments, such as Finance, would be involved in the assessment of this, or are we using outside pension people to give us an estimate on what the cost will be?
Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Finance and Health will be working together on this issue. Thank you.
I will leave that point for now. My next question is adult and child care in the southern facilities, it seems we have this on an annual basis. I know it’s been talked about in the House, as well, but this is a very expensive cost to the GNWT. I am wondering what we are doing to repatriate some of these individuals or find specialists to come to the Northwest Territories so we can repatriate these individuals.
There are regular reviews done of the clients down south, both adults and children. The significant challenge is the multiple presenting problems, very, very complex, in many cases, presenting problems that require constant 24/7 supervision. There is such a wide array of special needs and requirements that it would be impossible, in the estimation of the government, to be able to bring back a facility worth 10 or 15 of these folks all with a wide array of problems, to try to put them all in one facility. When they are placed down south, we have the ability to be able to go and place them in specific facilities and have the critical mass and economies of scale to deal with the specific presenting problems that an individual child or adult may have. Mr. Chair, with your indulgence, I would ask the Minister if he would like to add anything further in terms of rationale.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don’t have too much to add. These are very similar questions that were asked during oral questions last week by the other Member for Hay River, Jane Groenewegen. We do an assessment of an individual biannually, so two times a year we’ll do individual assessments to determine if there is an opportunity to bring them back and what the current status is. Where we have an opportunity to repatriate, we do.
I also had an opportunity, during the previous budget session, to indicate that we are going to have our territorial services take a look at all the individuals down south to see if there is any opportunity to repatriate a block of individuals with like conditions. Unfortunately, as Minister Miltenberger said, we did that review and we didn’t find a group of individuals with like conditions that we could bring back and put in a territorial facility, but we will do that review every couple of years because the realities could change.
Where we stand today is there isn’t a block of individuals we can repatriate as a result of like conditions. We continue to do the biannual review of individuals and where we can repatriate, we do. These individuals have pretty complex conditions requiring extensive care and we haven’t been able to repatriate many of them at this point.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Mr. Bouchard.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. My only other question would be with these individuals, when we assess them… I’m looking for residency. If they are in a facility that is in the South for an extended period of time, do they ever become residents of that jurisdiction? That’s the main question. Do they stay NWT residents for the entire stay there? They could be there for life. We continue to pay from the NWT, but really they are residents of the jurisdiction. Would they be somehow put into a queue for that jurisdiction? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the past, there have been cases where it’s been a permanent placement where over time they become… In one case I can recollect in my time, they became a resident of Ontario. It depends on the length of the stay, but most jurisdictions now you have to have an understanding that this is a very specialized service that’s being purchased for our citizens, our residents. On that basis, you enter into those agreements. Otherwise it would be problematic for the receiving jurisdictions in terms of pressure on their system over time.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Continuing on with questions on Health and Social Services, I have Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to follow up on my colleague’s questions and he actually asked most of the questions I had. Would the Minister know how many adults and children we have in care and what the total costs are that this amount is supplementing?
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Aumond.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don’t have the numbers for the number of adults or children, but I know for adults the total projected cost in 2014-15 is about $14.42 million. The total expenses for children in 2014-15 are projected to be $7.86 million.
Thank you, Mr. Aumond. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks for that response. We’re looking at $27 million, Mr. Chair. I think it gets to the point in terms of investing in the personnel, the staff and whatnot in a facility in the North, this would be a very significant contribution to employment in the North as these amounts go up. I’m not hearing opportunities for it to go down. I would say it may be worth, given that we get tax returns and so on, at some point figuring out where does it become feasible to entertain a northern facility even with all the staff involved and so on. So, I just throw that out. I heard your discussion and I heard those responses. I appreciate the Department of Health and Social Services is always looking at this. I would say look at it with the big picture on what benefits and real costs and returns we would get from having a facility that could help out here in the North. I myself had a constituent returned from the South to a facility in Hay River, which has eased things for the family in my constituency. I know there is also the human side to this, of course. I will leave it at that.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As the Minister pointed out, we review this on an ongoing basis. What has also been helpful in the past, harkening back to my time as Health Minister, we went down a number of times with the Social Programs committee and toured the facilities. When you walk on the ground and go into the facilities and meet the clients, you get a very, very stark understanding of the challenges. Not to say it can’t be done, because we have built facilities in Fort Smith. We put in facilities in Hay River, Inuvik and Yellowknife over the years to pick up children and adults who were down south, but the flow does not seem to ebb.
So I appreciate the Member’s comments, but it is an issue where the Social Programs committee, it would be a valuable opportunity for them early on, say in the next government, to take a look and really appreciate the significant challenges. I can tell you the complexity of some of the presenting problems are stunning, in some cases, in terms of the challenge. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Committee, we are on page 6, Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, program delivery support, not previously authorized, $1.473 million. Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I certainly agree with the Minister that some of the specialized care needs to be in the South because we don’t have it in the Northwest Territories. Is there a critical mass in the North that could give warrant to discussion in this Assembly, saying maybe it’s time to consider? At this point right now, is it economic to continue to send our people down south for care?
I know there’s some discussion in the newspaper as to when residents in the North can maybe be seen as… Do we have the proper resources and facilities here in the North? I’m looking at one at the Stanton Hospital for a patient who may be considered moving down south for appropriate care. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Over the years the capacity of the Northwest Territories has increased in terms of the complexity of presenting problems and cases that you can work with, families and individuals who are very challenging. But there are still many that are beyond us.
It requires a regular review and oversight by Health and Social Services. As Mr. Bromley pointed out, for example, he had a constituent who they managed to get appropriate placement for. I’ve had experiences in my constituency, as well, and they’ve worked out very well. The case I have in mind is of an individual who was down south literally for decades and came back north and has been there ever since and has been integrated into services into the community. We just have to keep tracking and see what the needs and requirements are. Sometimes you may bring one or two, or you may hit a critical mass like we did in Hay River, where at that particular point in time there were enough people who could be repatriated that a facility was built in Hay River. All the child care facilities we have in the North, and for adults, were all built on that premise of bringing Northerners back home. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Committee, again, we’re on page 6, Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, program delivery support, not previously authorized, $1.473 million.
Agreed.
Health services programs, not previously authorized, $4.911 million. Community programs, not previously authorized, $4.676 million. Total department, not previously authorized, $11.060 million. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Page 7, Justice, operations expenditures, services to the government, not previously authorized, $80,000. Community justice and policing, not previously authorized, $316,000. Total department, not previously authorized, $396,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Page 8, Education, Culture and Employment, operations expenditures, education and culture, not previously authorized, negative $150,000. Total department, not previously authorized, negative $150,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Page 9, Transportation, operations expenditures, airports, not previously authorized, negative $624,000. Highways, not previously authorized, $140,000. Total department, not previously authorized, negative $484,000. Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a question of understanding a term here. The capital investment expenditures, we’re transferring funding to that pot, I guess, for lack of a better way of putting it. Where does this money go? What are the capital investment expenditures? Is that a general fund or is it a specific fund? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that we’ll go to Mr. Aumond.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The proposal here is funding for the Trout Lake Airport Relocation Project, so it’s just transferring money in the O and M budget to the capital budget for that asset. Thank you.
Thanks. Just to confirm, this is just simply transferring from the operations or O and M budget into capital. It’s not going into any particular… It’s just going as a lump sum of money into our capital budget. Thank you.
The money is proposed to be transferred from the O and M budget to the Department of Transportation’s capital budget for the Trout Lake Airport Relocation Project.
Thanks, Mr. Aumond, for the clarification. I guess the term that throws me off is “investment.” It suggests that we’re putting it somewhere and allowing it to grow, so I would maybe suggest to the Minister that the term should be amended for the next time around. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We’ve noted the Member’s suggestion. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just on the dollars for additional engineering studies related to drainage and permafrost studies on the Inuvik runway, how much have we spent so far on that project, and were these unanticipated dollars or are we just trying to move things forward in the future? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Aumond.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. In ’13-14 $650,000 was approved, and in ’14-15 $2.35 million was approved for the repair of the runway and for additional engineering studies. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Aumond. Mr. Bromley.
I understand that $234,000 would be added to the $2.35 million, so bringing it up to roughly $2.7 million for this current fiscal year. Will that resolve the issue, or are we anticipating more in the future on this? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This money is tied to a potential planned extension of the Inuvik runway. The Department of National Defence has requested this, so this money is federal money that’s offset. They’ve paid for this work. Thank you.
I think I understand the situation. This is not just to fix the issue that they had in the middle of the runway. This was also planning for the extension of the Inuvik runway. Have I got that right? Thank you.
The Member is correct; there were the two issues. Thank you.
