Yes. Based on past expenditures this is still higher than what we actually spent last year. If there's more uptake and more clients accessing the program, as a government we could always come back and look for more dollars.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the answer from the Minister. Was there any consultation with the NWT council for disabilities in this sort of change in the amount that we would expend under this agreement? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thanks, Mr. O'Reilly. Mr. Minister.
Yes. We are always working with our partners, NWT councils with disabilities but in terms of corresponding, in terms of the reductions, there was no consultation on that part. We looked at program services, when we had to go through the exercise and see where dollars weren't being utilized fully and thought that those would be areas that we can look into when we went through the reductions exercise. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. O'Reilly?
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I might contact the council myself, but like my colleague, Mr. Thompson, I wonder whether the issue here is really one of promoting the programs to ensure that there is stronger uptake, but I appreciate the answers from the Minister. That's it for me for now. Thanks.
Thanks, Mr. O'Reilly. Any further questions? Moving on, page 51, Education, Culture and Employment, active position summary, information item. Any questions? Mr. Thompson?
In regards to a notice of reduction in some of the positions, are these part of the reduction plans, or is it stuff that was something that you guys planned on doing before?
Thanks, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Minister.
Thank you. With some of the positions, they were in the reductions exercise that we went through. Some of the positions were also sunsets for certain programs. When we look at the position reductions, they are always difficult. We looked at options and wanted to make sure that when we did the reductions, that any work that was still left could be distributed among the remaining staff. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. There is a North Slave and a Tlicho. Can the Minister explain the difference in these two areas? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Minister.
Yes, the North Slave is here in Yellowknife, and Tlicho is in the Tlicho communities. Also, some of the other communities up here in the North Slave region. We do have an office here, and then Tlicho also have their TSCA and they take care of their communities.
Mr. Thompson.
The North Slave, what does that consist of? What communities? When he's talking about this for the North Slave, what communities are being served? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Minister.
Yes. That's Yellowknife, Detah, Ndilo and I believe Lutselk’e.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I notice that there was the reduction in the Dehcho by one position. Could the Minister explain what position was this? Was it sunsetted or was it part of the reduction process? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Minister.
It was the corporate services position.
Thanks, Mr. Minister. Mr. Thompson.
MR. THOMPSON: Was this reduction or sunset? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Minister.
It was a reduction and as mentioned before, when we went through the reduction exercises, you want to make sure that any work that the position was doing could be still done with the remaining staff within the department. Thank you.
Thanks, Mr. Minister. Mr. Thompson.
This position, was it filled or was it vacant?
Thanks, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Minister.
Yes, that position was filled.
Mr. Minister. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I also notice in the South Slave, they got an increase of two positions. If we are doing a reduction, could you please explain how we are getting an increase in positions? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Minister?
Yes. As part of the evolution, we do look at decentralizing positions out into the communities. With the South Slave, there were two identified positions that we're going to be going to the South Slave through decentralization and the devolution process. Thank you.
Thanks, Mr. Minister. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm kind of disappointed. I see that the small communities are getting hit again. I mean, bigger centers are now getting two more positions and we're taking a half position in a small community. I'm kind of disappointed so trying to understand the rationale with decentralization, why weren’t you looking at moving these positions into either the Sahtu or the Dehcho. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Minister.
Yes. It's part of a broader GNWT plan when you look at decentralization. In some cases, we also have to look at office space and resources in the communities as well, but this one was planned within the decentralization.
Mr. Minister. Mr. Thompson. Any further questions? Mr. O'Reilly then.
Mr. Chair, the questions just asked by my colleague made the case for some information I'd asked for earlier in the week. I'd asked our Minister of Finance if we could get a table that shows the changes that are going to happen throughout the budget. If we can get that table that sort of shows where those reductions are the result of actual program reductions versus sunsetting and whether those jobs are filled or not for each of the communities and regions in the Northwest Territories, that would be really helpful in understanding this.
I could probably start to put together a table, something like that, but it would take a heck of a lot of work. I'm sure you folks must have this information at your fingertips. Could the Minister undertake to work with his colleagues to get us that sort of a table so we can clearly see where the job losses are going to be and whether they're a result of sunsetting or program reductions and whether those positions are filled or not. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thanks, Mr. O'Reilly. Mr. Minister.
Yes. Definitely out of the department we can look at providing that information from a department, but working with my Cabinet colleagues to look at those as well, and as the Minister had mentioned, he can look into that and get back to the Member when it was a question in the House, but we definitely can.
Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, I know we are all working flat out to try to get this done, but if that information could be provided sooner than later, it would be really helpful, I think, as we start to go through the other departmental budgets, so just a heads up that it would be really helpful to get that information sooner than later. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Mr. O'Reilly. Mr. Minister.
Yes, as I said, from our department side of things, we could get that information. We don't know the full details with the other departments but that is something we can look into discussing, but our department can get those numbers to you.
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. O'Reilly. Moving on, Mr. Simpson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. One thing I have heard from some of my constituents is that they find ECE to be a topheavy department, and I was wondering, when you're looking at these reduction exercises, how exactly are they done? Who is it that decides what gets cut, who gets cut? Is it upper management looking down into the department? Because I know that universally accepted best practices for internal audits are you get someone from the outside or you get someone on the inside who is independent, who can talk to anyone, who can report to anyone. Is this someone from the outside looking in the way maybe a company would do it if they are trying to save money, or is this upper management seeing what they can cut? I will just ask that for now. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Mr. Minister.
Yes. As I stated, when we go through position reductions, it is always a difficult exercise, and any reductions we did make, we made sure that the program services were not going to be impacted, and that other staff can also participate in the workload. Generally, the process was that senior managers were asked to look at their operations and proposed options coming forward. There needed to be some balance between position reductions and other operating expenses like travel and other O and M and any other program changes. ECE is particularly challenged, because obviously, we don't want to touch the K to 12 system, and we don't want to touch income assistance, two big pots of our department. When we look at these positions, the proposals were then finalized and decisions were made at the Financial Management Board.
