Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister.
Yes, Mr. Chair, I can share that information. There currently 100 people on remand. That’s composed of 89 at NSCC, seven at the Fort Smith correctional centre for women, and four at the correctional centre for men in Fort Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Vanthuyne.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can the department maybe describe for us what the average length of stay is for an individual in remand? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister.
Mr. Chair, I’m not absolutely certain as to the average length of stay. I do know that the issue of remands across the country is an issue of quite a high percentage of inmates in our system, approximately 60 per cent are on remand, and I think that’s consistent with statistics across Canada. I do know, however, that we have one of the best records of getting people to court. Unlike in the south when there’s very often a very long delay and people spending a long, long period of time on remand that doesn’t tend to happen as much here. But, unfortunately, I do not have in front of me statistics as to what the average remand time is. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Vanthuyne.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. While it’s good to understand we have the best record, it certainly would be appreciated if information could be shared about what the average length of stay is, because there certainly have been complaints in the past that some of these stays have been exceptionally long. What steps is the department taking to actually get these people out of remand and into the court to have their day? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister.
Mr. Chair, of course, court schedules and everything are far beyond our control; that’s up to the judiciary. I know that the judiciary is very aware of the issue of people on remand; it’s an issue everywhere. As I say, we have the best or one of the best records of getting people to court so that they will spend the shortest period of time on remand. It’s an issue the judiciary and we are alive to, and I think we are doing far better than most jurisdictions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Vanthuyne.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, one of the ongoing complaints is that, and I will ask the department to please clarify this if, in fact, I am not correct, one of the complaints is that while individuals are in remand, and again, some are there for fairly lengthy periods, that the many good programs that were described earlier they do not have access to. The question is: is there an opportunity to have access to healing and personal reform programs while in remand? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister.
Mr. Chair, if I could assist with some statistics about the average length of custody; that information is now before me. For adult males the average remand time is apparently 53 days; adult females is 38 days; male youths is 53 days; and female youths is four days. Although there are a lot of people on remand, it would appear to me that the average remand length is quite short. With respect to those on remand, we have attempted over the last few years to allow them to avail themselves to as many programs as is possible. Clearly, they cannot likely take all of the programs because some of those require leaving the facility. That is a change that has been made over the last few years. I know it was a complaint and a genuine concern years ago, but we have alleviated the problem to a large extent. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. There is nothing further from Mr. Vanthuyne. Seeing no further comments or questions I’ll proceed to call the page: Justice, corrections, operations expenditure summary, total activity $37,610,000. Agreed?
Agreed.
We will now move on to Court Services. The total activities on page 271, so we will defer that until we discuss the detail on page 272. Page 272, court services, active positions. Comments or questions? Mr. O’Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Can the Minister or his staff describe the six positions that are being cut here? Talk a little bit about what those positions are and whether they’re vacant or not? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. O’Reilly. Minister.
Yes, Mr. Chair. The reductions are the court librarian position in Yellowknife, court officer in Inuvik, and... I’m sorry, four court positions in Inuvik, and manager of court registry, also in Inuvik. I understand that the manager’s position in Inuvik has been vacant as well as two of the court officer positions have been vacant for some period of time.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I don’t have any further questions on this page.
Thank you, Mr. O’Reilly, and just a reminder to let our audio techs know when you are done speaking so they can switch over the mics and we can proceed in a timely fashion. No further comments or questions on page 272. We’ll turn to page 271 court services, operations expenditure summary. Mr. O’Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I believe this is the page where the court library for the Northwest Territories has been cut, including the staff person there. I wanted to start by asking the Minister how the cut of the court library meets the mandate of the 18th Assembly, especially in this regard. Mandate item 4.4.3 reads, “we will seek to improve access to justice in the Northwest Territories by expanding legal outreach programs and expanding public education on programs and services.” I’m wondering if the Minister or his staff can explain how cutting the court library helps us achieve that part of our mandate. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. O’Reilly. Minister Sebert.
Mr. Chair, legal aid has expanded its operations in the area of outreach. There is now an individual that goes out to many of the smaller communities dealing with sometimes issues that cannot be dealt with, either by private lawyers or by the legal aid clinic lawyers, so there is an effort from legal aid to have actual individuals go out and help people, particularly in the smaller communities where access to justice is a large problem, there being no resident lawyers in most of those communities. With respect to the issue of the library, as I have mentioned earlier, the expense of continuing the library in view of the use was simply thought that this was not a good use of our resources. Some history on this is that originally, the library was set up in 1978, and there were libraries in many of the communities. The legal profession was far different in those days. There were no online services to be utilized. As time went on, that changed in the early 1990s. The satellite libraries were closed down in Inuvik, Hay River, and Fort Smith. Not too much time after that, the library in the courthouse in Yellowknife was reduced in size to about a third of its former size. Most lawyers now use online services, and in fact, if you go to a lawyer’s office now, large firm or small, you tend not to see a library that was once seen to be a great asset in a law firm. The outreach from legal aid has been increased, and the use of the library, the traditional resource of lawyers has fallen precipitously over the last ten or 15 years. Therefore, to be most effective in having legal outreach, we think we should concentrate our assets in such areas of having more legal aid outreach and reduce costs in other areas, specifically the library. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. O’Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the long explanation from the Minister. Probably don’t agree with it, but I’d like to ask the Minister, he said in the House yesterday that cutting the court library would save $467,000. When we were looking at this in the business plan, I understood the only cost savings would be from cutting the staff position that’s associated with the library. Can the Minister tell us how this figure of $467,000 was calculated?
Yes, Mr. Chair. The figure I gave was the figure, and referred to by Mr. O’Reilly was the cost of the library. Costs are made up not only of the librarian’s salary, but publications, particularly ongoing subscription publications are incredibly expensive. Much of this information could be obtained online. The cost savings will be twofold: the reduction in the position, but also, the cost, the very, very high cost of keeping up subscriptions.
I understood, though, that there was an internal restatement within the department where a number of costs that were associated with a library have now been apportioned to the court registries. Can the Minister or his staff confirm that? I think the figure was about $220,000. Can the Minister or his staff confirm that, please?
Mr. Chair, I’m certainly not aware of that. I do know that the costs of the library have been exceeding the budget costs by approximately that same amount, but I’m not aware of anything to do with the registries tying into the library.
I guess what I’m trying to figure out here is the costs that have been quoted by the Minister in the House yesterday, $467,000. We’ve got a part of a staff person or staff PY. I understood that that would save us about $50,000, that the $417,000, that’s really just publications, or does it actually include the costs that we would pay to rent that space within the building?
Mr. Chair, the $50,000 was going to be the money we would save immediately or this year, but perhaps Ms. Schofield can assist. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Ms. Schofield.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The departmental budget for the library is $223,000 annually. The amount that was given on the $467,000 is the actual expenditures for the library program, for 2015-16, so it’s actually overspending its appropriation by $244,000. When the Minister is indicating that the government would save, it would save the entire amount of what is actually being spent. The $50,000 that’s in the budget this year is just what would be saved this year. In June, there’s publications that are currently being purchased up until now. There is costs related to the GNWT staff retention policy, so the $50,000 is what would be saved in the appropriation for 201617. The entire savings on the budget side would be $223,000. However, the total savings would be $467,000, as we would no longer be over-expending the appropriation. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Ms. Schofield. Mr. O’Reilly.
Thanks Mr. Chair. That’s helpful information to have. Anything above $50,000 that we’re going to save with the staff person is being spent on publications? I’m trying to find out, I want to get a specific breakdown of this $467,000, and I don’t seem to be getting it from the department?
Yes, Mr. Chair. Perhaps Ms. Schofield can assist.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Of the appropriation for the library, the $223,000, it’s roughly, I don’t have the exact amount with me, about $100,000 for the salary and benefits of the librarian. With the savings for 201617 in the total library would only be $50,000 because there are expenditures that are happening in this fiscal year, and the total savings would not be achieved until the 201718 fiscal year. The remaining amount of that $223,000 is budgeted for materials and supplies which goes to the purchase of subscriptions, the purchase of additional volumes of books that go into the library, those type of items. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
That’s helpful in understanding this. Is any portion of the $467,000 that the Minister has stated in this House, is any of that related to cost of this space rental?
Thank you, Mr. O’Reilly. Your time has expired, but I will allow Ms. Schofield to answer.
No. No portion of that is related to the lease for the space.
Mr. Thompson.
Thank you. I’ll just build on Mr. O’Reilly’s questions here so I can better understand what’s being offered here. If I understand correctly, we have $100,000 for salary, then we have $367,000 which includes materials and supplies and volumes of books. Is this correct?
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.
Yes, Mr. Chair. That is correct. Thank you.
Okay, I’m just a little bit confused on why we would have this over expenditure of $244,000 every year. Is this related to just the subscriptions?
Yes, Mr. Chair, it is mostly related to the subscriptions, which are incredibly expensive, and probably have gone up in price over the years. In fact, I’m sure they’ve gone up in price over the years.
I thank the Minister for that answer. Just so I understand properly… Somebody said something. Now I have to catch it. Subscriptions are involved. Is it electronic or hard copy?
My understanding, Mr. Chair, is the vast majority of the cost is hard copies. What you find with the subscriptions is that loose-leaf service is most of them, so they have to be put in the books, but they come every quarter depending on changes in the law, and they are, I know from personal experience, incredibly expensive.
If we have these subscriptions, what… Are you not going to be using them anymore or is it not going to be out there? How is this going to be handled if we do not get these hard copies?
