Debates of October 17, 2016 (day 31)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I call Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of committee? Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, committee wishes to review Tabled Document 143-18(2), Capital Estimates for 2017-2018.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Does Committee agree?

Speaker: SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS

Agreed.

We will review the document after a brief recess. Thank you.

---SHORT RECESS

I now call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 143-18(2), Capital Estimates, 2017-2018. Does the Minister of Finance have any opening remarks?

Yes, I do, Mr. Chair. Proceed?

You may proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I am here to present the capital estimates 2017-2018. The capital estimates 2017-2018 totals $266 million, which includes $28 million for community infrastructure investments. As in previous years, the capital estimates 2017-2018 do not include appropriations for housing infrastructure proposed by the NWT Housing Corporation.

The appropriation for these investments will be sought during the Legislative Assembly's review of the 2017-2018 Main Estimates. However, the NWT Housing Corporation's 2017-2018 xapital estimates, which total $24.3 million, is included in the capital estimates as an information item for review and comment.

Major highlights of the estimates include:

$93 million for health facility replacements and renovations, including funding required for the construction of the new Stanton Territorial Hospital project;

$76 million for highways, winter roads, bridges, and culverts across the NWT, this includes funding for the Inuvik to Tuktoyaktuk Highway and for highway projects submitted under the Building Canada Plan;

$28 million to continue to provide to community government for their infrastructure needs;

$23 million for new education facilities and renovation to existing facilities; and

$50 million to continue work on the new territorial female correctional centre in Fort Smith.

In addition, 2017-2018 community governments will also be receiving $15.3 million in gas tax funding and $28.9 million from the public transit infrastructure fund and the clean water and lake water fund. Included in the funding that is going to committee governments, total infrastructure spending in the NWT for 2017-2018 is therefore estimated to be approximately $331 million. That concludes my opening remarks, Mr. Chair. I would be pleased to answer any questions Members may have. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Are we agreed to begin with general comments? I apologize.

---Laughter.

It has been a while since I have been in the Chair. Thank you, Minister McLeod. We have agreed to begin with general comments. Would the Minister like to bring any witnesses into the Chamber?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would.

Thank you. Sergeant-At-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Would the Minister please introduce his witnesses.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, to my right, I have Mr. Paul Guy, who is the deputy minister of Public Works and Services. To my far right I have Jayleen Robertson, who is the assistant deputy minister of Public Works and Services. To my left, I have Mr. Sandy Kalgutkar, who is the deputy secretary to the Financial Management Board.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. I apologize. Minister?

Thank you. I would like to correct myself. Jayleen is actually the assistant deputy minister of the Department of Transportation. My apologies.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. As I have stated, we have agreed to begin with opening comments. Are there any opening comments on the capital estimates? Mr. O'Reilly.

Kevin O'Reilly

Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. This is the first capital budget for a number of us. There will probably be a little bit of learning as we go through it. I had three issues that I wanted to raise in my opening remarks if I can.

The first issue is with regard to the proposed Department of Infrastructure. At least the way that the capital estimates have been laid out, there is this department of infrastructure, which is the proposed amalgamation of Public Works and Services and the Department of Transportation.

I will confess, Mr. Chair, as I was reading this on the weekend, it was probably too late, but I was reading this, and all of a sudden, I come across this section in here that says infrastructure, and I thought it was a different category of capital spending or something. I didn't realize that the two departments had been jammed together into one section here.

As this is only a proposal, I think it is inappropriate that they are amalgamated in this fashion in the capital budget. That is causing me some concern. In any event, I look forward to hearing from the Minister about how they can separate those two budgets and get us back to where we should be.

The second issue that I wanted to raise, Mr. Chair, is found on page 5 of the capital estimates. This is where there are projections of capital investments for 2017-2018, 2018-2019, and 2019-2020. It's rather interesting that it's a declining projection of capital spending for the next three years. You know, this is not really what the Minister of Finance said was going to happen earlier, I should say last week in his fiscal update and through a series of questions. Certainly this MLA expected to see higher spending on capital projects over the next couple of years, because we've made the point that this $150 million reduction target; that is Cabinet's doing, that's not supported on this side of the House, was going to lead to greater capital spending. But that's not what these estimates show. In fact, it's a reduction of capital spending over the next three years. So that's really not consistent with what the Minister promised in the House last week.

I think that's probably it for now, Mr. Chair. I do have some more specific questions about some of the projects in here. I had given the Minister heads up that I'll have some questions about spending within the Department of Education, Culture and Employment for an Ecole Allain StCyr expansion.

I appreciate the fact that it's in here, but I have some questions about seeking some outside funding to help support that work. I'll also have some questions about the women's correctional centre that's being built in Fort Smith. That's it, Mr. Chair, for my opening remarks. Thank you.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. After each general comment, I'll allow time for the Minister to respond, and we'll proceed that way for the general comments. Once we get into the document more, we can have more of a back-and-forth discussion. Minister McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, in the Department of Infrastructure, we had given committee a heads up a couple of times that this was the direction that we were heading. This capital estimates that we're debating during this session does not take effect until April 1st, and then the main estimates, when we'll have a further discussion on this, does take effect until April 1st.

I'm not sure if Members are suggesting that we separate the two, even though there is ongoing discussion about amalgamating the two or it's planned to amalgamate the two, but this is not something that we're going to be implementing a week after the capital estimates are approved. These are capital estimates that are going to take effect April 1st. We still have to go through the main estimates debate during the February-March session and things may change there as well.

The second one is the money that the Member said that I promised. Again, we have to go through the capital planning process for any potential savings and it would be premature for me to say that the money has been approved because we still have to go through the main estimates in February-March, where some of the savings that we have identified in going ahead are going to be taking place. So we still have to get that approved by the Legislative Assembly. So rather than being premature, we will probably realize some of the savings as we debate the capital plans for 2018-2019. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Next on my list, I have Mr. Vanthuyne.

Cory Vanthuyne

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know that our government's capital spending is typically focused on transportation, and often a large project or two along with that. This current budget seems to fit that pattern and, as the Minister noted, the government proposes to spend about $80 million on transportation projects and a bit more than that on the Stanton Territorial Hospital. These are all important projects for a variety of reasons. For me, it is all about better services and opportunities for residents of the Northwest Territories, whether that is health, a safer airport, or a new road into a community.

The government proposes to spend just shy of $300 million on capital projects in 2017-2018, and I commend them for that. Besides being useful infrastructure, this spending creates jobs and business opportunities that are vital to a healthy economy and healthy communities. I'm not sure that every project meets the standard of delivering the biggest bang for our buck, but I will put comments on that aside until we deal with specific departments.

Another thing that concerns me is the lack of diversity in our capital spending. I would like to see our capital spending do more to help broaden our economy and reduce the future costs of living in the territory. Both of these goals are in the mandate we unanimously approved back in March. I would like to see our capital spending as closely aligned to the priorities in our mandate as possible in future.

Lastly, similar to my colleague, I am very concerned about one other thing. The capital estimates as they were tabled last week would have us consider investments for a department that does not exist. The Department of Infrastructure is proposed for next year as a merger of the Departments of Transportation and Public Works and Services. There is always a chance the merger will not happen. Until such time as it is approved in this House, we should be considering capital funding for existing departments. Those are my general comments. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Would the Minister like to respond, remembering that there will be plenty of time for in-depth discussion on this when we get further into it? Minister McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when you look at the projects that we've proposed for across the Northwest Territories, I believe every constituency and pretty well every community in the Northwest Territories is represented; $298 million in infrastructure spending would go a long way to helping the communities, especially the smaller communities.

To me, that fits within our mandate. Some of the other projects we would like to see go ahead, and these are discussions we are having with the federal government as to some of the hydro projects, where we could reduce the cost of living. We want to be in a position where we can put a good case forward and match any funding that we may have to match.

So pretty well all the projects we have, I think, fit within our mandate, so we'll continue to do that work. I take the Member's comment on the Department of Infrastructure. As I said to the Member from Frame Lake, these are estimates for consideration that take effect on April 1st and, if things change between now and then, or during our main estimates debate, then we will make the necessary adjustments. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone in the gallery for joining us for these proceedings. It's always nice to have an audience. Next on my list, I have Mr. Testart.

Kieron Testart

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My comments are similar to the previous two speakers. It's great to see a very healthy number here in capital spending. We talk about investment in our economy and our communities, making the North safer, creating real opportunities for business employment, infrastructure is a great way to go. This is a substantial investment in the Northwest Territories.

That being said, there are a number of issues with the long-term outlook of this investment. We've heard it before, that there will be more investment when time comes, and infrastructure investment is the best way to stimulate and develop the economy. Yet we do see a projected decline. Of course, we can debate that at the time, but it's important to consider the long-term plans of this government over our term. That's something that's keenly on my mind, and entirely relevant to the debate we're having today.

I also share concerns about the presentation of the Department of Infrastructure ahead of its approval, especially when there are significant questions around the proposed amalgamation, placing it together, as this does not give Members an accurate picture of the investment of the two existing departments and the reporting structure as it currently exists.

I, too, have a number of specific concerns that I'll raise in the later sections of this document. But I guess I'll say, you know, I do applaud the government for putting forward such a substantial investment. However, we need to ensure that this investment continues throughout the course of this government and that we are doing everything we can, opportunities for savings that this government is committed to achieving? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Would the Minister like to respond?

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. The Member said his comments were in line with the previous speaker's, and I take his comments and we're here to listen to all the comments. Of course, our goal at the end of the day is to make an investment into the Northwest Territories so we can put people to work and improve the services and access to services, reduce the cost of living. Everything the Member spoke of, this government is committed to doing. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Do we have any more general comments? Seeing no general comments, what is the wish of the committee, Mr. Beaulieu?

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, committee wishes to report progress at this time.

Carried

I will now rise and report progress.

Report of Committee of the Whole