Debates of October 25, 2016 (day 35)

Date
October
25
2016
Session
18th Assembly, 2nd Session
Day
35
Members Present
Hon. Glen Abernethy, Mr. Beaulieu, Mr. Blake, Hon. Caroline Cochrane, Ms. Green, Hon. Jackson Lafferty, Hon. Bob McLeod, Hon. Robert McLeod, Mr. McNeely, Hon. Alfred Moses, Mr. Nadli, Mr. Nakimayak, Mr. O’Reilly, Mr. Testart, Hon. Wally Schumann, Hon. Louis Sebert, Mr. Simpson, Mr. Thompson, Mr. Vanthuyne
Topics
Statements

Marci cho, Mr. Speaker.

The Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA), with more than 50 member legislatures, identifies benchmarks of good governance and best practices. It recommends that codes of conduct should “specify graduated sanctions and penalties for breaches of the code according to the seriousness of the effects of breaches on the functioning, reputation and legitimacy of the parliament.” The CPA’s Recommended Benchmarks for Codes of Conduct Applying to Members of Parliament also advises that codes should “specify that a Member convicted of a breach of the criminal law, may in addition be subject to a sanction or penalty if found to have breached the Code.”

There is no mention of sanctions or penalties in the Legislative Assembly’s Code of Conduct. However, the Conflict of Interest provisions of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act specify punishments when a Member is found guilty of contravening a section of those provisions. The potential punishments include:

a reprimand;

a fine not exceeding $25,000; an order requiring the Member to make restitution;

an order requiring the Member to pay compensation to any person for a loss sustained;

a suspension for a period not exceeding 30 sitting days;

a declaration that the seat of the Member is vacant; and,

an order that the Member pay costs in an amount to be determined.

It is vitally important to note that the Legislative Assembly’s authority to regulate its internal affairs and discipline its own Members for misconduct is unchallenged. These rights and powers, which fall under the banner of Parliamentary Privilege, are the peculiar rights enjoyed by each House collectively, and by Members individually, without which they could not carry out their duties and functions. These rights and privileges exceed those possessed by other bodies or individuals and are, to a certain extent, exempt from the general law. It is also vitally important to understand that this does not place the Assembly or its Members above the law. Court rulings have assisted in setting precedents to define the boundaries of Parliamentary Privilege and general law.

Examples of sanctions that can be imposed by the House and that go beyond the other sanctions already identified in statute include:

verbal warnings;

formal reprimands;

censure / severe rebukes / admonition;

naming and order to withdraw;

suspension from membership for a specified period;

revocation of appointments;

imprisonment;

expulsion / loss of seat.

The arsenal of penalties and sanctions is thus well-stocked. Analysis of codes of conduct elsewhere reveals varied approaches on whether it is advisable to formally identify clear sanctions for specific breaches, or whether it is better to address them case-by-case. The most important consideration is that any sanction should be reasonable and appropriate to the misconduct. Avenues for appeal or review should also be provided in instances where a Member is found guilty of misconduct.

There is a trend toward enforceable standards of conduct in both governmental and non-governmental organizations. Tougher rules do serve a preventive purpose, and while enforcement may ultimately be a deterrent, it is necessarily reactive to events. Prevention of such events must be part of our goal.

Promoting a culture of integrity within public life and the parliamentary context is fundamental to any effective ethics regime. Educational and training efforts can contribute to the effectiveness of an ethics regime by clarifying what constitutes misconduct and identifying ways of eliminating it. Ethical behaviours can be fostered when ethical standards are clearly known and people become attentive to identifying and discovering wrongdoing. People are often hesitant to commit an unethical act if they believe everyone else around them knows it is wrong, or if they are likely to get caught. These positive behaviours are more common in environments that emphasize ethical behaviour.Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to pass it back to the Chair, Mr. O'Reilly.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Masi. Member for Frame Lake.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Members of the Standing Committee on Rules and Procedures wish to engage the general public in a dialogue on the development and refinement of laws, Members’ conduct guidelines, and enforcement mechanisms in support of high ethical standards befitting the Northwest Territories Legislative Assembly.

Following this report, the committee will issue a discussion paper posing a series of questions on key issues to stimulate public consideration and feedback. The committee plans to conduct public hearings outside the capital in November and December, 2016. The meetings will be well-publicized; the committee invites everyone interested to attend, discuss the issues, and provide their advice. Written submissions are also welcome. The committee’s final report and recommendations will be tabled at the earliest opportunity in 2017. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Masi. Member for Frame Lake.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, that Committee Report 2-18(2) be received and adopted by this Assembly. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Masi. Motion is on the floor. Motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Frame Lake.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I really don't want to speak at any length about the report. It is an interim report as noted early on in the presentation and on the cover of the report. We do intend to do some further work in terms of engaging the public. But most importantly, I want to thank the members of the committee, Mr. Sebert, Ms. Green, Mr. Thompson, and Mr. Beaulieu for their hard work in putting this together. We look forward to the support of all Members moving forward. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Mahsi. To the motion.

Speaker: SOME HON. MEMBERS

Question

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Question has been called. Motion carried. Mahsi.

---Carried

---Applause

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Item 4, reports of standing and special committees. Item 5, returns to oral questions. Item 7, acknowledgements. Item 8, oral questions. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Sorry, Mr. Speaker, I would like to go back to Section Number 6 on the orders papers.

---Unanimous consent granted

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to recognize a couple people working in the building today. I'd like to first recognize the two interpreters from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh, Mary Rose Sundberg and Tommy Unka. They'll both be here for the remainder of the sitting. Also I understand that another young lady that's from YK Dene that works in the Members' office, Ora Williamson Mercredi. Thank you.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Masi. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I'd like to welcome Manuel Jorge who is here today with us. He's a great member of my constituency in Kam Lake, and the owner/operator of Energy Wall Building Systems. I'd also like to recognize Mr. Tony Whitford, former member for Kam Lake amongst many other things. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and welcome.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Masi. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and the same as my colleague and as yourself, as we know Mr. Whitford is a man of many titles and one he is also is a Yellowknife North resident, so I want to recognize him today and welcome him to the House. I also want to recognize a good friend and my former employer, Manuel Jorge. Thank you.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Masi. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Thebacha.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to recognize my wife, Anne Sebert, and her son Peter Reid in the audience.

Oral Questions

Question 378-18(2): Administration of Sports and Recreation Funding

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Department of Municipal and Community Affairs recently commissioned in the Sutcliffe Report to review MACA's mandate and goals in support of recreation and physical activities, and to make recommendations about how to manage lottery funds and operations in support of our revised mandate goals. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister please provide some information about who the Sutcliffe Group consulted in the development of their report and recommendations? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Masi. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Consultation to develop the Sutcliffe Report was actually done fairly comprehensive in my opinion, so it included two rounds of consultation with sports and rec groups and other stakeholders from across the Northwest Territories.

The first round of consultations consisted of 17 people in person and telephone interviews with representatives from Municipal and Community Affairs, sports, rec and youth division, territorial and regional sports organizations, the NWT Association of Communities and local government administrators of the NWT.

In addition, interviews with representatives from similar sports and rec divisions in the Yukon and Nunavut took place. The second round of consultations provided stakeholders with an opportunity to review and comment in writing on the set of draft recommendations and proposal developed by the Sutcliffe Group with several submissions that were received from that feedback. Finally, the consultant led an online webinar as well as a one-day policy workshop to support the development of the policy statement on recreation, sport and physical activity for the NWT. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the Minister for her answer. Mr. Speaker, one of the recommendations of the report was to establish an NWT sport recreation and physical activity/physical literacy policy. Has the department developed this policy? If so, what is it meant to do?

Yes, a draft NWT Sport Recreation and Physical Activity Policy has been developed that will be used to guide the funding and operational decision-making for the department. This policy is an internal document though and doesn't represent the whole NWT Sectorial Policy which we'll be looking at on a later date.

I again thank the Minister for her answer. Can the Minister explain how the department has been able to engage stakeholders, specifically Sports North, as a means forward with the implementation of the Sutcliffe recommendations and the development of an NWT physical activity/literacy strategy?

So moving forth with it and actually getting more consultation, we've actually already met with Sport North organization. We've talked to them about how we see their role. They've decided where they see their role as well. They'll be providing a business case to us within the next month or so.

As well as that, we've also committed to meeting all of the five sports organizations to come together, and so we can actually talk more broadly on what are the results in the Sutcliffe Report, where they see a policy going, some of the limitations and the assets of the current policy that we use for the funding and operations.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Masi. Oral Questions. Member for Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for her answer. The Sutcliffe Report had 18 recommendations and one of the recommendations was about the funding relationship. When will the department begin implementing recommendations as listed in the Sutcliffe Report? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

So the Sutcliffe Report was actually received in January 2016 and it was shared with the affected organizations for their comment on April 2016, so not that long ago. Between April and July, the department took a comprehensive review and analysis of the report. On August 19th, the former Minister of MACA announced that the department's modified approach to western Canada's lottery funding and the creation of a new NWT Sports Recreation and Physical Activity Funding Policy which will be used to guide our funding allocations and our operational components.

The department is also moving forward now to make the required legislative, contractual and human resources changes to bring the operations and revenue of the Western Canada Lottery Program inside the Governments of the Northwest Territories.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.

Question 378-18(2): Territorial Power Rates, Generation and Distribution Systems

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation. Mr. Speaker, communication to the public on power rates still appears unclear. The Minister indicated in his statement last week that, "the latest rate application will charge Yellowknife customers only 98 per cent of the cost of the service for 2016-2017."

Yet Northlands pointed to the rate application showing that it was charging Northlands 114 per cent. That's 14 per cent more than what it costs to produce power for Yellowknife. This is not open for interpretation and it can't be both ways. I would like to ask the Minister again which rate is correct? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Masi. Minister responsible for NWT Power Corporation.

Mr. Speaker, the Public Utilities Board sets rates for both NTPC and Northland Utilities. NTPC did apply for 114 per cent in 2013-2014 based on a calculation of revenue-to-cost coverage. The Public Utilities Board rejected this calculation and directed that NTPC bill electricity at 98 per cent which is where it remains to this day. Thank you.

Thank you to the Minister for that clarification. Another question, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister is, fundamentally, what would have to change for the government to consider opening talks with ATCO?

The government has initiated an energy strategy which the House heard about last week, and we will be inviting proponents to attend and discuss energy in the NWT. ATCO is one of the invitees.

Thank you to the Minister. Mr. Speaker, when it comes to reducing or stabilizing the cost of power to consumers, the GNWT has typically taken an approach that results in higher costs to government. That is only cycling taxpayers' dollars and placing the costs on future governments. How does the GNWT plan to reverse that trend?

The GNWT has been subsidizing the cost of power for NWT residents, most recently through the $44 million to offset low water in the North Slave. I certainly agree with the Member opposite that finding ways to make our energy system more sustainable is crucial, and the government is in the early stages of partnering to tie into the continental grid.

We have also been partnering with communities such as Colville Lake to introduce solar arrays and reduce our reliance on fossil fuels. I look forward to hearing what other ideas are out there and the results of the energy strategy that I referred to earlier.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Lastly, in the interests of open government and transparency, I would like to ask the Minister: how do residents get a say in whether the GNWT is our sole power provider or whether we look at other options, such as partnerships with private entities? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it is important when we're looking at this issue to look at the situation in Hay River. It was the municipal decision of the Town of Hay River and its people to seek proposals for power. NTPC was one of the bidders. ATCO was another. It was a town decision to go with that NTPC proposal. There have been no decisions made for Yellowknife, but it will be the city that decides whether or not to go out for proposals when the current franchise expires in 2020.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Hay River North.

Question 380-18(2): Remediation of Contaminated Sites on Northern Transportation Company Lands

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier I spoke about NTCL and their lots in Hay River. I have some questions for the Minister of Lands. When I brought this up before, the government didn't seem to be doing much, and so I was hoping they've been a bit more proactive.

Has the department done any inspections of NTCL's lands in Hay River or anywhere in the Territory to check for environmental and compliance issues, and what were the results of these inspections, if they occurred, and what future actions are they leading to? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Masi. Minister of Lands.

Mr. Speaker, this is a complex issue. The company is not yet bankrupt. They have a lease, and we need to wait for the CCAA process to proceed. However, the department has conducted inspections of lands that are leased to NTCL. This includes lands that are directly leased to the company by the GNWT, as well as those leased through head leases given to the Town of Hay River. No lease compliance issues have been identified. Lands will be working with other departments to identify areas of particular concern that would be in need of additional environmental assessment. Again, we must wait for the end of the CCAA bankruptcy procedure in court.

I'm glad to see that there have been some inspections. There are some sites that you don't really need to wait to see how things turn out. You know no one is going to buy them; you know no one wants them. So we can have plans in place for those lands, at least.

In the devolution agreement, there are clauses that absolve the Government of Canada of any responsibility to remediate sites. These are called released sites. Are there any released sites that the department has identified in Hay River or anywhere in the Territories?

There are no NTCL sites that fall into this category 10. Not all of the NTCL leases fall under the category of operating sites, and as such may be subject to provisions of the devolution agreement that allow us to assert to Canada that they have responsibilities for remediation of the sites. This assertion does not necessarily result in Canada's acceptance of a liability for the site, and there is a process laid out in the devolution agreement through which the GNWT would have to develop and provide evidence to support the assertion.