Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank the Minister for his answer. I've heard him. Unfortunately, I don't think he's hearing and listening to what the community is saying and the region is saying. This is a regional health centre. It's not a community health centre. This is regional. It's serving six communities and it needs to be built, so I'm hoping that, you know, when we're sitting here talking about a health centre and we're the last one, is it because Stanton Hospital was the one that was being built? I've heard it being said, "No," but this is the message it looks like out there, is that we're the ones that are suffering the consequences. The land was an issue. The land is not an issue anymore, so, Mr. Chair, I'm hoping the Minister understands I've heard him, I've heard him in the House, I've heard him in the communities, but it's important that this health centre, it needs to be built for the residents of the Nahendeh, which is six communities. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Would the Minister like to respond?
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I'm completely aware that this is a regional health centre, and I recognize without question the value in moving forward with this facility.
The Member has suggested maybe Stanton bumped this facility. I do have to point out that Stanton facility has been in discussions and negotiations for well over ten years, probably approaching 12 years. The first time that we had a conversation about the Fort Simpson is when we did some initial assessment on the pilings, which proved to be wrong, as a point, which was about 2012, so it's only been in the works for a couple of years.
But, as I've said before, you can't move any initiative forward like this until you've actually acquired the spot of land. If you're going to plan, your need to understand the ground you're building on, you need to understand its location so that you can incorporate plumbing and all of these things. It's all part of the planning study.
So, to be clear to the Member, we understand that this is a regional health centre, we understand the importance of this health centre, and we have been moving as quickly as we can, recognizing that you have to, you know, cross a few items on your check list before you can move forward. We've crossed those off, and we are moving forward as quickly as we can.
Unfortunately, as I've said before, the earliest we can expect to see this in the capital plan would be 20182019, and it will have to compete against all projects coming forward, and there are a lot of projects. I intend to push to get this onto the capital plan, but I think it's important for people to be aware of the realities. There are a lot of capital projects out there that need to get done.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank the Minister for his answer. Reality is reality, and I understand that. However, it seems that, when we were a hospital, the reality was we'll build a health centre and we're going to run it 24 hours. Now we're just going to rebuild you a new hospital and it isn't going to happen now. It has to compete because of land issues. I understand that, but the biggest problem is for the community. They're looking for a new health centre, the residents. I guess I'm hoping that it will be brought in here.
To move on from this topic is the Sambaa K’e Health Centre. My question in regards to that: who is responsible for this? Is this DPW, of the health centre? Because, when I talk to different people, some people say it's a Health issue, some people say it's a DPW issue, so the community is trying to figure out whom they have to work with to see if they can build it themselves or work on going to a stickbuilt or stuff like that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, when it comes to health centres, health clinics, health cabins, those types of things, the Department of Health and Social Services is essentially the client. We are identifying the program and the magnitude of programs and services that we need to be available through a facility, and the facility must be designed to meet those needs, but Public Works and Services is the builder.
Also, Public Works and Services, for Health and Social Services as for all other departments, has a responsibility for property management, which means they are managing leases, they're managing rent, they're doing all of those things on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories. So, when it comes to something like a health cottage, cabin, whatever you want to call it, in Sambaa K’e, we have identified a need we are putting into this capital plan so that we can, you know, put some money aside to acquire the facility.
I've been to the community myself. I've had an opportunity to talk to the chief, who has made it very clear that they would like to own and rent a new health cabin exactly like they do today. We're supportive of that. We're open to that as a possibility, but, at the end of the day, it's the procurement department that will be making those decisions based on what is affordable.
I know that staff was supposed to be in Sambaa K’e yesterday. The chief indicated he was not available on short notice and the meeting was cancelled. We have indicated to them that we're happy to go in there whenever the chief can be available to discuss options on how we can move together. That meeting would obviously be with Public Works and Services, the chief, but also staff from Health and Social Services because, at the end of the day, we want to make sure that whatever is built or whatever is acquired meets our clinical needs.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank the Minister for that answer. I'm actually thankful we're clearing this picture up and very satisfied that you're working with the community, and the community seems to be very happy. I know that they want to own it. Does the department I guess this would be more for DPW questions, so I'll have to wait for that. Again, I thank the Minister for his answer. I'm done with this page. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Next on my list, I have Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, one question: I would like to get an update on the status of the health centre in Lutselk'e. First, it appears on the 20year needs assessment for 20172018, but I know it's not in the plan. I was wondering if the Minister could advise me when it does appear in the plan?
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. I would just like to remind all the Members to just indicate when you're done speaking with a "thank you" or something like that so the sound techs know when to switch the mics. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just for clarity, have we finished the administrative and support services section, because all the questions seem to be related to community health programs?
No. We have not called this page yet. Would the Members like to hold their questions for the appropriate section? Mr. Beaulieu.
I'm okay with calling the page first.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. What I will do is call this page, and we can continue on to the next section. Health and Social Services, administrative and support services, infrastructure investments, $84,746,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
We will now turn to page 33, with information on page 34. Mr. Beaulieu, please continue.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the Minister will be prepared to answer the question I just asked. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the planning study for the Lutselk'e facility has been completed, and what it's proposing is a retrofit expansion for that facility. We are just waiting to find a way to get it into the queue when capital room is available.
It would be competing with Fort Simpson, assuming we get it done, which I anticipate we will, Tulita, Jean Marie River, and a number of other projects. We're trying to move all of these forward as quickly as we can.
The earliest that it would be in the budget would be 20182019, recognizing once again Tulita, Fort Simpson, Jean Marie River, and a number of other facilities and projects that we need to get done within the Department of Health and Social Services.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I'm satisfied with that response. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Further for this section? Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. There's a line item for 18 extended care beds in Yellowknife, and my understanding is some of those are going to Avens and some of those will be in the old Stanton Territorial Hospital facility. Do we have now a plan for the old facility, the old Stanton Hospital facility? That would be my question. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the old Stanton facility will be managed by Venture, I believe is the name of the company, as part of the P3 Project. They're the property manager. They are ultimately the ones who get to decide what they're going to put and what they're not going to put in that facility. We have sought permission from FMB and we're seeking permission from the Members today to re-profile some of the extended care dollars and pursue an opportunity to put the 18 extended beds that we were going to build in the old building.
So we can to make a case to Venture that that would be a logical inclusion within the old facility. In the savings, we're hoping to utilize to negotiate with AVENS towards the construction of long-term care facility here in Yellowknife on the AVEN compound. So we're taking the old extended care project, trying to re-profile a little bit to move forward with extended care in the hospital and long-term care.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do recall during the election there was lot of discussion about what to do with that facility and whether it would be extended care, whether it would be a treatment centre, those kind of options. So can we expect any further expenditure on the old facility or will that now rest with the P3 partners? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Once again, ultimately all the decisions on the old hospital are decisions that would be made by the P3 proponent in the property manager which is Venture. From my perspective, from the perspective of Health and Social Services, we see a great opportunity to work with Venture to, you know, hopefully obtain more space for possibly more long-term care space.
We will obviously be pursuing to see if there's a business case in that; we'll be working with committee if there is. We will certainly pursue more space in more space in Stanton recognizing that ultimately the decision is not ours, it is the property manager of that building. But we believe we can make a solid case. Looking forward to committee's support.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Has this information got out to the public that this is -- apart from today's proceedings, but has that announcement been made public so people have an awareness, a sense of what's happening at the old facility? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.
We haven't done too much in the way of getting that information out there at this point because we haven't actually had any budget approved indicating that we can actually, you know, conclude or move forward, and we haven't got a fully formulated plan on putting in long-term care or any of those types of things in that facility, and we're working on a development of a plan to accommodate 258 beds in the Northwest Territories and we're pursuing lots of different options and research that'll allow us to support the 250 beds across the Northwest Territories. It's many pieces of the puzzle until we have a better sense of what the full picture is. We haven't done too much communication with the public at this point.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Nothing further.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Do I have anything further? I see nothing further, I will call the section. Health and Social Services, community health programs, infrastructure investments, $10,725,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Will committee please return to page 30. Anything further? Last kick at the can. Seeing nothing, I will call the departmental total. Health and Social Services, total capital estimate, $95,471,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Thank you to the witnesses. Thank you, Minister. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber. Committee agrees that consideration of the Department of Health and Social Services is concluded. What is the wish of committee? Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move to report progress.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. There is a motion on the floor to report progress. The motion is in order and non-debatable. All those in favours? All those opposed?
---Carried
The motion is carried. I will now rise to report progress.
Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 143-18(2), Capital Estimates, 2017-2018. I would like to report progress, and, Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with.
Do I have a seconder? Member for Yellowknife North.
---Carried
