Thank you, committee. Does committee agree that that concludes the Legislative Assembly?
Agreed.
Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber. Thank you, committee. That concludes the Legislative Assembly. We will now return to Municipal and Community Affairs. Does the Minister have opening comments?
No opening comments.
Thank you. Does the Minister wish to bring witnesses into the House?
Yes, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Cochrane, thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Would the Minister please introduce her witness?
Thank you, Mr. Chair. On my right is Eleanor Young. She is the deputy minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.
Thank you, Minister. Committee, I will now open the floor to general comments. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a couple of questions about when we are likely to see investments in two areas that we have discussed previously. The first is whether there is a requirement for capital investment in the 911 service and, if so, when we will expect to see that in the capital estimates. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister.
Thank you. You will not see any capital investments in the 911 during this fiscal year. It will be coming within the next fiscal year. We are still doing the work that needs to take place, such as mapping out communities, figuring out receiving calls, receiving in the communities, et cetera. The actual investment in capital will be in the next fiscal year, if we need any at that time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the Office of the Auditor General reviewed the MACA operations and released a report earlier this year, and there were some recommendations that seemed to indicate increased investment, especially in fire safety. Could the Minister tell us whether there are any investments in this capital plan that address the recommendations in that report and, if not, when we are going to see them? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Cochrane.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. At this present moment we actually provide the funding to the communities, and then the communities are responsible for expending any capital in that regard at this time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Cochrane. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, it is my understanding that the Office of the Auditor General found that the investment was not adequate to the need, and so there is a need for increased investment. How is the Minister planning to respond to that recommendation? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Cochrane.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is just in the middle of developing a strategy that will be finalized in the fall of this year, and at that point we will identify areas that we need to move further on. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am not sure what strategy the Minister has in mind here, but the Office of the Auditor General was clear that the firefighting capacity in the communities was inadequate. At what point will investments be made in improving firefighting, that is to say residential or commercial firefighting, in the communities? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Cochrane.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. At this point, on the recommendations of the Auditor General, we are actually in the process of doing kind of an asset management strategy with all of the communities to assess what assets they have in regards to fire protection; identifying what they have, what they are missing, and the condition of each asset. Until that is done, then we will not know exactly what financial assistance each community will need to address the emergency fire services. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Cochrane. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I am not getting a sense of priority or urgency on this matter from the Minister. Of course, the Office of the Auditor General report was released about six months ago, and the department was well aware of the items that were in the report before it was released. I am looking for a concrete answer as to when the department is going to invest in additional firefighting capacity into the communities. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Ms. Young.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. With the action plan for the Office of the Auditor General, the work that we are doing with each community is to develop a fire protection strategy for each community. The investments that you would be speaking to would be in the communities, O and M and capital plans primarily, for investment in equipment. That would be either funded out of the funding we provide through here, as you see in the capital, or through other sources of funding that they would get for either infrastructure or O and M. As you are aware, we do have a funding gap that we are trying to address, and that is the strategy that the Minister mentioned earlier. That is part of the overall funding strategy that we are working on with our partners.
Thank you, Ms. Young. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the answer. The money ultimately has to come from somewhere, and as the deputy minister has already pointed out, there is a significant underfunding of the communities, which has been quantified and it is well understood. In addition to the strategy being developed and produced this fall, when might we see the investment to close that gap? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Cochrane.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The strategy to address the funding gap will be done in the fall of this year. However, it will take some time. In the meantime, we are trying to leverage capital infrastructure money for the communities through the federal investments in infrastructure. At that point, when we get that money, we are prioritizing the communities that have a deficit. We are trying to address it through that means, but we will not actually know a timeline and when it will totally be addressed until we have finished developing our plan to address the funding gap, which will be here this fall. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Cochrane. Ms. Green.
Those are all of my questions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Next, we have Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to talk more about this funding gap. Out of this $27 million contribution to infrastructure, what is missing? What does the gap represent for, I believe it is called, CPI? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Cochrane.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. At this time, it is approximately $23 million a year. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Cochrane. Mr. Testart.
Thank you. I just want to follow up on some of the line of questioning that my honourable friend from Yellowknife Centre made. The Minister made a comment that some of these emergency service needs, such as fire prevention, are going to be addressed by federal infrastructure programs. My understanding is that Infrastructure Canada does not have funding for emergency services infrastructure. Can the Minister address how that is being addressed if it is not through the federal funding programs? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Cochrane.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. At this point, we are still in the process of negotiating with the federal government for the new infrastructure money. Currently, the National Disaster Mitigation Program only funds for flood zones, but we are hoping that they will extend that into other areas of emergency services. At this point, until we finish negotiations with the federal government, we cannot say whether they will be looking at emergency equipment. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Cochrane. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. If they do not, what then? How do we support our communities that have been identified as being in need through the most recent Auditor General Report? If that does not work, what are we going to do? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Cochrane.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am hopeful that the federal government will understand that there are more emergency needs besides just flooding, but, if not, then it will be addressed when we look at our plan. Every community has to do a capital plan every year, and so, within that capital planning process, we try to assist them in identifying what their priorities are. When we finish the defining of all the assets, what they have, and their needs within their fire departments, then we will actually look at prioritizing on their capital asset planning process. At that time, then the communities would be responsible for putting aside the money or getting more revenues to purchase those equipment needs. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Cochrane. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just to comment on that approach, it is a prudent solution. However, there may be other infrastructure projects that local communities are focusing on, and, by the department encouraging them to prioritize certain things, it may take away from other stuff that is being planned. If there is any way we could provide the funding directly to them for this specific purpose, I think that would be a more equitable solution than potentially forcing communities to give up on other infrastructure projects that they have been planning for some time, but I will leave that with the Minister.
This funding gap, I have heard we are trying to address it. We have been trying to address it for a long time. The current estimates have flat funding for CPI, and I wonder if the Minister can let me know if the next capital planning cycle will see an increase to that, or are we going to maintain flat funding until this strategy is tabled? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Cochrane.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The difficulty for all departments, including Municipal and Community Affairs, is we are working within the fiscal framework and the economy is not that great. We have to make sure that all of the departments access the funding that they need to be able to provide critical services, so, at this point, we will not be addressing that at this current time.
Like I say, we are looking at the assets that each community has, where we will be trying to prioritize based on that assessment with the communities. It is really sad if communities do want to put in a skating rink or a swimming pool and they have to make a decision between a swimming pool and fire equipment. It is a hard choice to make, but I do believe that most communities make very educated decisions when they look at their capital planning process, and we support them in their decision making. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
