Thank you, committee. Does committee agree that this concludes our consideration of the Department of Finance?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Thank you to the Minister and your witness. SergeantatArms, you may escort the witness from the Chamber. Committee, we have agreed to next consider the Department of Justice, which begins on page 49 of the capital estimates. We will defer consideration of the departmental total until after consideration of the activities, but I will open up the floor to any general comments after I see if the Minister has any witnesses he would like to bring into the Chamber. Minister?
Yes, I would like to bring in witnesses, please.
Thank you, Minister. SergeantatArms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Minister, please introduce your witnesses for the record.
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. To my left is Mandi Bolstad, director of corporate services, and to my right, Martin Goldney, the deputy minister of Justice. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Opening comments on the Department of Justice? I see no opening comments from committee. We will begin consideration of the activities. The first activity is on page 51, corrections. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am sure the Minister can guess where I am going to go with this. We have two capital items here: North Slave Correctional Centre Zone 2, building security control system renovations; and North Slave Correctional Centre, building, security control system integration. Let's hear more about that. Can the Minister provide some detail about why these are required and if they are related to the security improvements that are required due to the incident report from last year? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. There are two major projects we are talking about in this area of security. One is to install fencing in response to the incident, the escape that took place in August of 2016, and the other is to mark the property line of the facility.
With respect to the critical incident response, if I can use that term, that is to secure the yard used for inmate programs. Again, it was obvious that security had to be enhanced after the escape in 2016, and my understanding is that, since that time, this portion of the facility has not been used. A budget was approved for this work, and we tendered the project. However, the bids received were far in excess of the allocated budget. At that point, what was done was that a revised approach to securing the yard is now being undertaken.
The other project was the perimeter fence. As I mentioned earlier today, the project closed on August 29th. The work is being conducted even as we speak and is expected to be completed by midOctober. This was a fence demarcating the facility boundary from the Homes North housing development. It was a 6foothigh fence, 220 metres along the west side of the property. As we mentioned, we did go out for tenders, tenders were received, and the work is proceeding. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for that, Minister. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the Minister for that detailed response. Unless I am not seeing this clearly, are these fence projects in this capital budget? The two items I spoke to were a security control system integration and building security control system renovations. Are the fences this control system renovations item, or are they the security integration? Am I missing something? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.
Yes, Mr. Chair, I wonder if I might defer that question to Ms. Bolstad. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Ms. Bolstad.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The two capital projects that the Member mentioned are actually enhancements to our security system at the facility that were planned as part of our conversion from an analoguebased system to a digitalbased system. They are unrelated to the inmate escape. They have been planned for several years and have phased in over 20172018, 20182019. The upgrades are to the camera and voice components as well as the door controls. Those are the two differences. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the official from the Department of Justice for that helpful clarification. With this fencing issue that has yet to be resolved, that the tender was not successful, what is the plan to deal with that? Is it to put more money into it so we can get it done, or is it to scale it down into something different? Can the Minister provide some more clarity about what this is going to look and where we will see it? Obviously, it is not in this budget, but where will this House consider that capital project, and how much is it going to cost? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.
Yes, Mr. Chair, I think we are looking at somewhat of a scaleddown project, but if I might defer to the deputy minister for details? Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Goldney.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The project is still within the budget and the funds that we have identified. The fact that the tenders came in well in excess of what was expected frankly forced us to go back and look at other options. I am a little constrained in getting into too much detail about some of the security features of the facility in a public setting.
However, perhaps generally what I can say is one of the difficulties with the first design is it would have involved much more extensive need for a concrete footing and placement. When we were frankly disappointed with the results of the previous tender, we asked our experts to reconsider other options. We had some structural engineers come in and look at options that could get the same result without requiring some of the more expensive components of the original plan and original design. I am happy to report that an option was identified with the benefit of that expert review with the engineers.
The other nice benefit is the new plan, because it has changed somewhat, does not run into the same issues around a construction window, with the absence of some of the footings that were there previously, so we do anticipate this tender going out as early as Monday or Tuesday and are hoping that we will get a favourable response. That would still allow construction to happen within this year and be completed over the late fall and early winter. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Nothing further.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. I have no further comments or questions on this section. I will call it. On page 51, Justice, corrections, infrastructure investments, $3,889,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. On to page 53, court services, with an additional information item on page 54. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I see that we are again paying to upgrade the Yellowknife courthouse. This is a leased building, and, over the years, I think we have spent a great deal of money reconfiguring and modifying this building, which is a shared judicial facility and an office building for the Department of Justice. That can be at cross purposes. Court facilities have higher security demands than, say, an office building, and oftentimes it is difficult for those two neighbouring purposes to share that space and adequately address the security needs of the building. I know this from personal experience. Furthermore, it is an office building that has been modified into a courthouse, so, again, there are a number of technical and security concerns.
I wonder if the Minister has a perspective on whether or not we should continue to invest millions of dollars in a building we do not own or whether or not we should move to a purposebuilt facility, a more modest facility than is currently on the books, so we can actually own this building, have it purpose built, have it safe and secured, and separate the judiciary away from the Department of Justice, which is something the judiciary has wanted for quite some time. Does the Minister have a plan to work on a project like that and actually get some not only judicial separation but a more effective structure for financing this important facility for the Northwest Territories? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.
Yes, Mr. Chair. This is now a 40-year-old building. It was initially built as a courthouse, but my understanding is that it always included office space housing the Department of Justice.
I realize that philosophically that creates some problems in that there should, of course, be a clear division between various branches of government and the judiciary. There have been efforts over the years to promote, if I can put it that way, a standalone courthouse, which would clearly be a good thing. I think we can all say that.
The problem is, as I understand, that years ago when this was looked at, the price was very high. You are quite correct that a lot of money has been put into the building over the years, and those leasehold improvements, as I understand it, have been paid for by the government. I believe our current lease is coming up in a few years.
I think at this point I can tell you that we will be discussing with the Department of Infrastructure this whole issue of our courthouse needs going forward into the future. I do realize that the building is no longer -- it's adequate, but it's probably not the best. This is a live issue with us and we will be discussing it with Infrastructure. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. That seems to be very good news. Can the Minister confirm when the lease is up? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.
My understanding is that the lease is up in 2021, but there's an option for a five-year extension to 2026, I assume. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Working with the Department of Infrastructure, as the Minister put it, is that work going to start now? Are we thinking post-2021 or is this still going to be a 10-year process of waiting the lease out? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.
I think the plan is, Mr. Chair, to start those discussions fairly soon with the Department of Infrastructure, perhaps in the next six months, by 2018.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm satisfied with that response. Nothing further.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I think it's been almost a year and a half now that we have the proud distinction of being the only jurisdiction in Canada without a court library and without any public access to it. The money in this portion of the justice budget for the courthouse structural upgrade, is any of that for this legendary public resource centre? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will give some brief outline about the resource centre/library, and then if I may defer to my deputy minister here.
Now, the old library on the first floor is still open to lawyers and others by appointment. I think they've only had one non-lawyer, one or two at most, seeking to get into the library. It's not as though there's nothing there. We are making plans for a resource centre.
Perhaps at this point I could turn the matter over to Mr. Goldney and he could provide some further information. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Goldney.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As the Minister mentioned, the previous space that was occupied by the library is now serving essentially as a scaled-down resource centre. Members of the bar, as the Minister mentioned, have access and continued 24/7 access with a fob. For members of the public, there's a notice there. Court staff can provide them access upon request, and so they wouldn't have to wait. They would just have to make that request. As the Minister has noted, there's been one person since we've closed the library doors and restricted access who has made such a request.
The plans were always to scale down the physical space itself, and it was tied to the renovations of the courthouse. That budget is there. The challenge that we ran into is that, when we were looking at changes in the lobby of the courthouse, it was quickly identified that there were some structural concerns and upgrades required before we could make the space to provide a more scaled-down physical space for that resource centre. That did, and does, require consideration of further investment, which is part of this budget. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. When can we expect this resource centre to actually open its doors to the public? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
As mentioned, the current library, of course, is open to the public. Opening a new resource centre will depend on the nature and type of renovations that we decide to do, if any. As has been mentioned, the issue of renovations appears much more complicated than we had originally anticipated. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
