Thank you. Next, we have Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I guess I would like to start by picking up one of my colleagues' questions about the Yellowknife Airport capital plan. The Minister mentioned that one of these committees that his deputy minister appoints, I think, is going to hold its first meeting in November. Can the Minister actually provide us the names of the individuals who were appointed to those three committees by his deputy minister? Can he commit to provide that information to us? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We cannot release those names publicly until after the first meeting, but we can let committee know the names of those people. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I am just trying to figure out: what is the rationale for not being able to provide the information to Members until after they have met? Surely, if you are going to put out a news release or something, you can at least provide us with the names in confidence? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. No, sorry, for the misunderstanding. That is not what I meant to the Member. We can give the committee the names here right away before even the first meeting. We are just not publicly releasing the names until after the first meeting. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Glad we were able to clear that up. I just want to go on to the Tlicho road. The allocation is $67 million. It is the largest single item in our budget, the capital budget. It really dwarfs almost everything else. I just have some questions about it. Can the Minister tell me, at a fairly high level, what is the $67 million actually going to do? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can I get some assurance that it is actually going to get spent this year? Because I think this project is still in an environmental assessment. There have been no contracts signed. Is the money actually going to get spent, and what is it for? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. To give you a high level on it, there is $67 million allocated for this road this year. We are still going through the environmental assessment process. We have to get the permits in place once that is done. Most of the cost is going to be around engineering and construction of this in the first year, depending on who is selected as the proponent to build this section of highway. Some people might escalate the speed of construction of road versus the others, and there are also some soft costs internally tied to it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I am not sure I am feeling terribly reassured about this. Maybe I will just change tack here a bit. I believe the names of the three firms, or groups or whatever, that were deemed to be qualified have been released. Can the Minister tell me whether any of those groups has any Tlicho companies? Are there any joint ventures or anything involved in any of that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. All three proponents that have been selected that are short-listed for this project are going to have Tlicho companies involved in the construction of this road. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. The three names that I have seen here, if I can find them again, are Aurora Access Partners, NAE Transportation Partners, North Star Infrastructure. The Minister is telling me that there are Tlicho companies or joint ventures of some sort that are in these three groupings? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. All three are believed to have Tlicho involvement, but when we do the evaluation of the three proponents when the bids come in, that will be part of the evaluation process. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Can the Minister, without breaching any confidence, tell us what are these Tlicho companies? Because that is not the information I have been provided with to date. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The details of this will be when they put in their full proposal to submit their bid. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. What we know now, though, the members of these groups, none of them are Tlicho companies. Can I confirm that with the Minister? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly. Ms. Robertson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Within the evaluation process of the request for qualifications, one of the components was Tlicho involvement and local involvement, and all of these three consortiums did score high in that area. Thank you.
Thank you for that. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. One of the three seems to have a Tlicho company. I am happy to get more information from the Minister if he wants to provide it, but that does not sound the sort of Northern content that is often been used to try to drive these quests for large capital road projects by our government. If the Minister wants to provide more information, I would be happy to get it.
I do have one other question. Surely to goodness by now we must have an estimate of what the O and M costs will be on an ongoing basis for that road once it is constructed, even if it is done as a P3. Does the department have any sort of an estimate of what that O and M cost might look like? We have had a lot of discussion here in the House today about the ongoing needs for other highways that are already built. What is the estimate of an O and M cost for this new project? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We have talked quite a bit about the O and M on this road. On a P3 project, though, that is part of the proponent's bid. Whoever the successful proponent is is going to have to build and construct this road, guarantee it for 25 years, and look after the O and M and capital costs of all the maintenance of that road going on for 25 years. It has nothing to do with us. It is just part of their bid package. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. That is helpful information to have, but surely to goodness we must have some sense of what the ongoing costs are going to be for O and M for this project and what it is going to cost taxpayers of the Northwest Territories. What is that estimate? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are not going to know what the costs associated with their bid on that is until they put their bid in. That is part of their total bid package. We have a cost estimate of what we think this road is going to cost us for the total amount over the 25 years, and the only thing that is going to cost the Government of the Northwest Territories over the life of the procurement of this P3 project is a payment we make on an annual basis. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. If the Minister does not want to tell me while the microphones are on, that is great, but can he provide in confidence, then, to Regular MLAs what the expected ongoing O and M or annual payments are going to have to be for the maintenance of this road once it is constructed? Can he commit to do that? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The department will have to have a look at this and see what we can share without jeopardizing the procurement process of this project. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I am not feeling really comfortable about where we are getting with this, and I know I have had constituents raising questions with me as well about how much this project is actually going to cost us. Maybe we could get a briefing or something from the Minister where he can more freely share information with us. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We will go back and have a look at that and see if there is an opportunity to be able to do that and what we can share with the Members in confidence. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. I have no one further on my list. I will call this activity. Oh, Mr. Vanthuyne.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a couple questions. Let us go back to Highway No. 3 just for a moment. I recognize that there are a number of issues with the road as it relates to permafrost degradation and settling issues. All of us know that, once upon a time, that road was a gravel road. Maybe it was a gravel road for a good reason.
If we know that we are going to have to sit and wait for this road to settle out for an undetermined time, has the department done any work as it relates to cost benefit versus chipsealing it or going back to gravel and managing dust control with calcium and packing? It would seem to me that operating and maintenance costs would be considerably less. You could get to parts of the road that have degradation much quicker and repair it. It just seems to me that we would be able to have a much smoother ride. Is there a reason why we would not be considering at least maybe even a section, the worst sections, going back to gravel? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Between the questions that I get in the House about this section of road and other pieces of section of the Northwest Territories that are challenging, and the conversations I have with the general public, I do not believe they would be very receptive to the idea of us going back to gravel.
Even though I believe what the Member is saying, that it would probably address some of that stuff in maybe a little different manner, the general public, I think, wants to see chipseal on this section of the highway. We have prioritized the most challenging areas, like we said, from 2015 to now and working our way forward, but that is something we can take under consideration. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Vanthuyne.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes. Nobody is trying to sling mud. It is about trying to get this road into as safe a situation as possible and make it a pleasant road to ride. I am not sure that folks are all that concerned whether it is chipseal or not. If the conditions overall would be improved if it were gravel, then I am sure they would be in favour of that.
Would the department give consideration to going back to a section and putting it under call it a pilot project, and take a 10 kilometre stretch and go back to gravel and monitor it for a period of time? That way, we can make some better decisions long-term for that section of highway. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
