Thank you, Ms. Green. Mr. Hagen.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Recreational Land Use Framework Agreement was going along at a reasonable pace, and then it collided a bit with the negotiations with the land claims with the Yellowknives, and they decided that they didn't want to support it and go forward until they either got close to resolving a land claim agreement or had a land claim agreement. We were instructed that land claims are the priority, and so we're holding off on it in hopes that there's some agreement in principal coming forth in this region. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Hagen. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I'd like to ask the witness how this information has been shared with people who have property on the Ingraham Trail, like I do. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Mr. Hagen.
Well, the process, of course, we hope to bring it to successful completion. It's going a little slower than we wish it to. We're hoping that any day, any month, we'll get some traction with the Yellowknives, whose traditional land we're dealing with. So we haven't made any announcements because it's still an ongoing process. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Hagen. Ms. Green.
That's everything. Thank you.
Any further questions from committee on pages 320 to 321? If not, I'll call the page. Operations expenditure summary, $10,758,000. Does the committee agree. Agreed? Thank you. Next, we have planning and coordination, operations expenditure summary, $6,991,000, from pages 322 to 326. Any questions? Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I understand this is the department in which I can ask the question about the money allocated to the agriculture strategy implementation. What role is the department playing in the implementation of the strategy with the $150,000 allocated? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Sebert.
The department, of course, and we have responsibility for the lands, we're looking at our approach for land tenures and the availability of land for agricultural purposes. The problem, which is somewhat related to some of the matters I spoke of earlier, is that land availability in the unsettled land claim areas is constrained, if I can put it that way, by existing land withdrawals. So we do want to go ahead. This is in the interest of the government as a whole, mainly driven by the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment and their agricultural strategy. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the Minister's answer, but it doesn't really answer the question. So how does this money help the unsettled land claims? I'm missing something. Could the Minister please clarify? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Sebert.
This money isn't to settle the land claims, but perhaps Mr. Hagen would elaborate a little more on how the money is being spent. I understand it's to develop policies and procedures for evaluating agricultural land lease applications, but he may have something to add.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Hagen.
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. So, like the Minister mentioned, the Department of ITI has developed an agricultural strategy for the Northwest Territories, and the aim of the strategy is to provide guidance and direction as to its resources and policies. We come in as Lands and do an examination of the land tenure and land availability for agricultural purposes. There's a wide range of possibilities rather than the traditional focus of leasing of arable land; recent advances in agricultural techniques; there's permaculture and greenhouse culture, which doesn't take a lot of land availability, and that's what we don't have. In the unsettled land claim regions where the best lands are available for agriculture, particularly Hay River, Fort Smith, Fort Resolution, all the lands are mostly withdrawn for land claim negotiations, and until those are settled there is very little land available for any large-scale agricultural farming. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Hagen. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, as I understand it, the idea is to look at alternatives to, sort of, open field agriculture in order to maximize the land that is available for agricultural purposes. Is that correct? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Sebert.
Perhaps Mr. Hagen can answer that.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Hagen.
Mr. Chair, yes, that's correct. ITI and our subs, we looked at the recent advances in agricultural techniques, as I mentioned, permaculture, greenhouse culture; and these present opportunities for sustainable agriculture production conducted in areas not previously considered feasible. Those areas were mostly outside the prime agricultural lands that are withdrawn for land claims. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Hagen, Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to the witnesses for their answers. Nothing further.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Next, we have Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm assuming this is where, the agricultural lands, this is the area we talk about them? So in my reply to the budget, there were some concerns that I heard from a number of residents in regard to leases and the cost to actually using these leases and that. Can the Minister tell us if agricultural lands have a different equity that they have to pay to get this, or is it similar to a tank farm? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister. Mr. Hagen.
You would fill out an application for an agricultural purpose and undergo the department's standard lease application and review process. That being said, with the interest in agricultural lands, the department has not received an application for an agricultural development at this time. It is all laid out in the commercial lease application that is submitted to the Department of Lands. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Hagen. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the deputy minister for that. Could we get clarification that the security needed for a greenhouse is similar to a tank farm? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Deputy Minister Hagen.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. A tank farm or a large-scale development would require a land use permit from the Mackenzie Valley Land and Water Board. In that process, they might also be sent to an environmental assessment. If they are successful in getting a land use permit for a tank farm or an agricultural or a large-scale greenhouse development, then the Land and Water Board would set the securities that they felt were needed to protect the environment and people. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Hagen. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Hagen for that answer. Just to clarify, it is not the Department of Lands that puts the security to it. It is another agency. Is that correct? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Deputy Minister Hagen.
Let's take a tank farm example where they require a lease. The Department of Lands would run a risk model and we would put forth security on the actual land lease. The developer would have to, like I mentioned, go to the Mackenzie Valley Land and Water Board or the Sahtu or the Tlicho to apply for a land use permit to apply for the actual development. On that development, the land and water boards would put on the security. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Hagen. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank Mr. Hagen for that answer. However, I am talking about agricultural land now. We are talking about greenhouses and that, and we are talking about security. Is it the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act that does it, or is it the Department of Lands that actually puts the security on it? I am trying to get to who actually puts security to making people put a security down. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Hagen.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I believe I just answered the Member's question. They have to get a lease if it is on territorial lands, which most of them will be. On that lease, the department, depending on the development, would run a model and put a security on just our lease to protect our lease. If it is a farm development that is above the threshold that requires a land use permit, and the threshold is very low, then they would go to the Mackenzie Valley or any other regional land and water boards and, if the permit is successful, they will put the securities on the actual physical development on that leased land. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Hagen. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank Mr. Hagen. You didn't answer my question before, but you did now because basically we were talking about tank farms and I was actually trying to find out about the agricultural land, so I thank you very much for that clarification. My challenge is that I have individuals who are wishing to develop greenhouses within my riding. They keep on coming back to it. When the department works with these people, do they actually walk them through the process of what they have to do in this area? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Hagen.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I believe we are talking about the Fort Simpson, Deh Cho region. We have an office in Fort Simpson with a superintendent and a few officers. Yes, anyone who wants to come to the office, they would gladly sit them down and walk them through the lease application and what is required to go forth with an actual development. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Hagen. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank Mr. Hagen. The staff in the region in Fort Simpson do a great job for Nahendeh. They do a really great job. I am just trying to get a better understanding of exactly what the process is, because I have had a number of people approach me with this. I thank Mr. Hagen for that. Now I have a clear understanding of what direction we need to go, and we can move forward on that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Next we have Mr. Vanthuyne.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just for clarification, I thought I heard the deputy minister indicate earlier that the department had not received to date any applications for agriculture leases. Is that correct? Can I get clarification? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
