Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Further comment, any further questions on pages 317 to 319? Mr. Vanthuyne.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Not necessarily a question but a comment. That is simply again that, as the chair, of course, of Economic Development and Environment, we found ourselves very supportive of the Western Arctic Centre for Geomatics. What we would encourage, certainly, is that the Department of Lands along with ITI and the Executive work towards having this positive development be very inclusive of our new mandate item, which is to develop the knowledge-based economy. So, maybe if the Minister could give any kind of comment to that regard as to: is there any undertaking or any effort to do that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister Sebert.
What I can say is that we are very happy that this is finally going ahead and reversing the phase 2 reduction. I think we do understand that the centre is a position to support the knowledge economy, which is very important. So, yes, we will be proceeding with this, of course, in a financial sense. We are hoping that it will lead to further development with ITI or Infrastructure, so yes. We will be working also with Aurora College so that the students will find this to be an area of interest in their studies and also, of course, with the federal government, so yes, we are excited about this initiative. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to follow up on my strong support for the NWT Centre for Geomatics, as well. The Minister just mentioned working with Aurora College, and I am just curious if he can elaborate on that point a little bit further. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Sebert.
Yes, I think that we see this as a real opportunity so that we can build awareness with students and the students will become interest in this area of study so that they will become more interested in the sciences and engineering, which appears to be where the growth will occur in the future. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Testart -- Minister Sebert. Mr. Testart. Sorry.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, for resolving that identity crisis. I get where the Minister is coming from, but is there any plan in place to develop that that he can share with us? I understand that there is potential there, but, more than just a comment, I mean is the department working to engage the college in developing some sort of strategy or working with the college in the foundational review? Like, is there anything concrete here, or is this just aspirational at this point? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Sebert.
As I understand it, the staff at the centre will be working with ECE and Aurora College on the development of a geomatics curriculum through kindergarten to grade 12 programming, and exploring opportunities to create post-secondary geomatics program development. So, yes, we are interested. We do see this as a potential area for growth in the future. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the Minister for that response. That is good news. Is there a cost to this program? Are there resources dedicated to it? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Sebert.
No, there is not a cost that we have ascertained currently. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, to clarify, this is something that the division is currently undertaking with their own staff resources, to develop this curriculum in conjunction with ECE? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Sebert.
Yes, I understand that is the case. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have nothing further, but I do think this is a step in the right direction for promoting knowledge economy initiatives. This centre is a key component of maximizing our benefits in the region, so I support the department on this. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Any further questions, committee? Seeing none, I will turn to page 317. Informatics shared service centre, operations expenditure summary, $6,754,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Agreed. Thank you, committee. Next we have operations expenditure summary, $10,758,000, from page 320 to 321. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So the Minister has spoken about the funding to address the long-standing issue of equity leases. I believe this is the appropriate section. Where can I see that funding in the main estimates? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Sebert.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. That comes under Commissioner's land administration, the amount set aside for that.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I see that is a substantial increase, from $1,764,000 to $2,388,000. I am just wondering if he can elaborate on how money is going to solve this problem? My understanding is that the current leases are administered by the staff, so what are these additional staff positions doing? Why is more staff time going to resolve equity leases? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Sebert.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. This issue of equity leases has been a long-standing problem. There are approximately 245 equity leases throughout the Northwest Territories. Only about a quarter, or 64, are in the settled regions, and 181 are within the unsettled areas. When I first heard about this issue, I think it might have been prior to my being elected; I might have heard it from clients; certainly, I heard from Members of my profession after I was elected, I had assumed that this would be fairly simple to straighten out, thinking that all of these leases would be at least similar. They are not, unfortunately. The ones within the settled regions are fairly straightforward, many of them, but within the unsettled regions, there are other issues involving possible Aboriginal claims or Aboriginal issues, and that is why additional staff is needed. Also, too, it is not merely in every case a question of simply transferring the title. There may be other issues that arise, such as having to resurvey the land or moving some buildings off the land if they are on two pieces of land, so those sorts of issues have to be resolved. We wanted to resolve this on a timely basis, and, as I say, it turned out to be more complicated than I had anticipated. Whenever I looked at a lease, I thought, "Oh, this one's different than the last one I'd seen." So the public very much wants to resolve this and have a certainty, by the public, I mean those who hold leases, so that they can have a path towards fee simple ownership. We thought it was of such importance that it was necessary to hire additional staff because there's going to be an awful lot of work involved in resolving this issue. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So the Minister resolves an issue for one of his problem areas by offering fee simple, I'm talking about the Cassidy Point deal that was honoured. So why aren't we just doing something similar? That seems simple enough for those residents, those lease holders. Why don't we offer that deal to everyone who's struggling with this issue? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Sebert.
Cassidy Point. Well, hard cases, in a way, make bad law, if I could put it that way. What happened there was that there was an undertaking by a senior member of the staff of the government some years ago that people would get fee simple in that area, at Cassidy Point, and the government felt obligated to come through with that promise, as I think is appropriate; but that promise was not made generally. So, we're going to have to take these more complicated steps to resolve these other 245 equity leases.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So in doing so, I believe the Minister, and I disagree with his position on this, but he calls it the "honour of the Crown." If the Minister has established a precedent by signing off on that deal and honouring that promise, and that precedent is in the mind of many members of the public who are concerned about these leases, so, again, I want to ask the Minister why we cannot offer the same deal to other lease holders who are expecting the same treatment? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Sebert.
Mr. Chair, the promise, as I understand it, was made specifically to those holders of property at Cassidy Point; it wasn't made to the general public. I also understand that, after that promise was made, if I have the dates right, the land-lease-only policy came into effect for those properties in unsettled areas. So I don't see it as a precedent. I did refer to the honour of the Crown, and I realize that's a term of art that often refers to government relations with Aboriginal groups; but it also, in my view, applies to our situation. A promise was made. People doubtless relied upon it at Cassidy Point, and therefore we fulfilled that promise. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, if I understand the Minister correctly, if he could confirm this for me, the reason we can't offer that deal to leases on unsettled land is because of a lease-only policy that was put into place. So the policy is preventing this government from offering a similar deal to those lease holders; is that correct? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Sebert.
Yes, in essence, that is true. However, I mentioned the honour of the Crown. One of the things we have to do in the unsettled areas is, of course, consult with the affected Aboriginal groups. So there are really two things coming into play there. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So the lease-only policy, is that a policy that this government can change? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Sebert.
Yes, I suppose we could change the policy, but the policy was put in place in anticipation of the settlement of land claims which, of course, has taken far longer than anticipated. Even if the policy was not in place, it seems to me we would likely have an obligation to consult those Aboriginal groups affected. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So just turning back to the original line of questioning around this exception that was made for Cassidy Point: is the land where those leases reside settled territory? Thank you.
