Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister McLeod.
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, my understanding is that we get enough applications that this program is fully utilized, and so all of the money goes out the door as far as the number of applications we get and the dollar figure that is attached to them. I do not really have that at my fingertips. I will check with the department, though, because that is an interesting question. I will check with the department to see what actual dollar value the requests come in at and whether it is close to the $75,000 or over. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Testart. No. Next, we have Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. In regard to contract services, I am assuming that is for the fire fighters and stuff like that. Can the Minister tell me how many fire crews are in my region and in which communities? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, in Fort Simpson, I believe there are 13 positions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess I should have been a little more specific. I mean, I represent six communities, so I am trying to see. I know Fort Simpson is there, but what about Fort Liard, Sambaa K'e, Jean Marie, Nahanni Butte, and Wrigley? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister McLeod.
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the 13 positions are in Fort Simpson. My understanding is in the other communities, the work is done by existing fire crews that we have on staff, but there are 13 positions in Fort Simpson in the Deh Cho region. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you. I appreciate the Minister's answer there. I guess I am looking at the crews and how many crews are out there, because I know, in some of the smaller communities, we do not have crews there. I think I have asked this question before to the Minister: Jean Marie and Nahanni Butte, I do not know if they have crews in there, so I am wondering if the department would be looking at putting crews there? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister McLeod.
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, my understanding is, in some of the smaller communities, we do send crews in as needed. As far as the community itself having their own crew, we have no contracts in place with any of the smaller communities to have a dedicated crew in that community. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know Sambaa K'e has a crew. They have a crew there. They actually are contracted out there. There is a crew there, but what I am looking for is some of the other communities. Would the department look at potentially putting some crews there so that, depending on the fitness level and all of that, the requirements, would they be willing to look at expanding, putting crews in these smaller communities? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Dr. Dragon.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know from time to time we have looked at putting crews into the smaller communities, depending on fire activity. We also train in those communities, depending, so that we have emergency firefighters. In certain instances where we have tried to do this in other communities, we have not been able to get up to the appropriate number of crew members, so our crews, what we changed in previous years from a five-man crew to a four-man crew, but it really depends on seasonal activity in those areas of whether or not it dictates to have a crew situated. In years where we have increased fire activity, we could look at providing an opportunity there if we are able to fully position those staff. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Dr. Dragon. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, and I appreciate the Minister and deputy minister's answer. I guess what I am looking for, then, maybe is: can the Minister provide me with a list of the breakdowns of how many times they have had crews in there or needed crews in the communities, and potentially look at speaking with the communities to come up with some -- even if it is emergency training and getting them prepared, plus the employment, but we have an issue of fires in our region, and it seems to be scary at some times of the year, especially with the smaller communities, because I know Jean Marie, the fire was right across the river, and it was pretty prevalent there. Can the Minister provide me with a break-down of the last couple of years of what we've been able to provide, if it's training or stuff like that, bringing crews in to those smaller communities? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, we can provide some information to the Member as he requested. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, and I appreciate the Minister and the department for being able to provide that. Does the department have a training plan that they look at training non-certified firefighters for each region? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, Mr. Chair; the answer is yes. We do have a training plan and we have the appropriate resources to carry out that plan. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Any further questions, committee? Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I have a couple of questions or lines of questioning here. The first one is: in the business plan, there are some reductions shown for a program, management and pre-suppression, reduce number of helicopters for pre-suppression. There's a reduction of $155,000 and then eliminate one helicopter contract for $469,000. Can someone explain what these reductions are all about and how that's going to affect our capacity to do pre-suppression work? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, we feel that it doesn't affect our capacity to deliver on our programs. On the $469,000, the re-election to eliminate one helicopter contract was based on historical fire behaviour, and the department proposed to reduce the rotary wing contract in one of the regions.
The $155,000 was decreasing the number of helicopters in pre-suppression to rotary wing contracts, which was to reduce the hours from 250 to 150. In addition, for the two contracts, it would reduce hours from 250 to 200. Should any additional rotary wing aircraft be required, they will be contracted on an as-and-when-needed basis. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. If we have to go and contract additional time on an as-required basis, presumably that would be a higher per-hour rate. Is that true? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister McLeod.
No, it's not true, Mr. Chair. My understanding is it's the same rate.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Maybe can the Minister elaborate a little bit more on the rationale for these cuts? I just want to understand. These are long-standing contracts. The time was never used before, so that's why the cuts are being made or what is the rationale? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Dr. Dragon.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. With the reduction of the one helicopter for $469,000, again, based on historical fire behaviour, we felt like that we didn't need that helicopter support in that region.
With the one that's for the $155,000, what we noticed was that we had the hours and they're actually being used more in the suppression area. That's why we've looked at moving that reduction so that if it happens, typically it's happening in the suppression area and not in the pre-suppression area. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Dr. Dragon. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I guess we'd just have to see how this rolls out. On the same page in the business plan, there's this ominous line that reads, "ENR to return to Financial Management Board with alternate reductions of $500,000 in each of 2018-2019 and 2019-2020." That seems to have been deferred back by a year. Can someone tell me what that is all about? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Ms. Craig.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. When we were developing our reduction options, we had anticipated that the operating costs for the 802s would be significantly less than the operating costs that we had for the 215s. Unfortunately, that did not materialize, so we went to the Financial Management Board to let them know that we would not be able to implement the savings that we had originally suggested in that area.
The decision was that in 2018-2019, we would not recognize any savings, but we would return to the 2019-2020 business planning process with other reduction options. We have yet to identify those options, but we will be looking within the department, not just within forest management to make those reductions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Ms. Craig. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, that's what I was most worried about. These reductions are not necessarily going to be confined to forest management. They might be made elsewhere within the department. Is that what I heard? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister McLeod.
We will look at forest management, but the Member is correct. They will look throughout the department. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, I'm quite concerned about further reductions in other parts of the department. I don't want to have to go back and re-live what happened with our discussion in corporate management and how I don't believe the department has the capacity to carry out what it's trying to do.
Look, does the Minister of Finance, as well? Is this something that he can take to the Financial Management Board and get them to just leave this extra $1 million reduction for ENR so that they can get the work done that's required? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I appreciate the Member not wanting to rehash the discussion we had under corporate management. As we start developing the next business plans, we'll come forward with some options we'll have prepared before committee. Committee will obviously make their concerns known, but we'll work on trying to come up with a solution that should work for all. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
