Debates of May 29, 2018 (day 31)

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, if I could, I would like to go to Minister Abernethy, the Minister of Health and Social Services. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Minister Abernethy, would you like to help out the Minister of Finance?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will try. We have already indicated in this House what our intention is of the old, existing Stanton building. We are intending to put extended care in there, long-term care, 72 beds, OT/PT, the Frame Lake clinic, as well as other functional services, like kitchens and those types of things, to support the services that will be provided out of the old building.

One of the reasons that the Extended Care Project is being deferred is that, once upon a time, we were actually looking at going with a standalone building, but as we have continued to do our work, it has become clear that there is better value for money in actually putting extended care in the old Stanton building.

Once we move into the new Stanton, then we will have to empty the old Stanton, which means we will have to find a temporary home for extended care while we conduct the renovations on the old Stanton to allow us to bring in those new services. We are intending and hoping, as the Minister said, to start moving on that in the summer of 2019 and continue as quickly as we can so that we can have a move-in date for about 72 long-term care as well as the extended-care beds. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the long answer from the Minister. Are we going to have any discussion about this on the tour on Friday? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, we are trying to get as much detail into our answers as possible. They might seem a little long sometimes because we have committed to committee, in the spirit of consensus government, that we are going to try to get as much detail to them as possible as we deliberate the supplementary estimates that are before us.

I think the short answer to the Member's question, the indication that I got from the Minister of Health and Social Services, is yes, we will have that discussion.

Thank you, Minister, and we are in no rush. The sun is still out. I see nothing further from Mr. O'Reilly. Seeing nothing further from committee, I will call this activity. Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, administrative and support services, not previously authorized, $34,896,000. Does committee agree?

Agreed.

Thank you. Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, community health programs, not previously authorized, $15,012,000. Does committee agree?

Agreed.

Thank you. Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $49,908,000. Does committee agree?

Agreed.

Thank you, committee. Turning to page 12, Industry, Tourism and Investment. This is a two-pager. It spans pages 12 and 13. A lot of carry-overs, apparently. Comments or questions from committee? Ms. Green.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Well, as a matter of fact, there are a lot of carry-overs. I wonder if anything got done last year. Why are there so many carry-overs? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As far as what got done last year, I would have to follow up and see exactly how much was done last year. The Member has some concerns about the amount of carry-overs, but I would be positive that there was substantial work done last year. I will gather the information and share it with the Member.

We provided a brief note, I believe, to committee of some of the questions they had this morning. I am not sure if it went into enough detail, but I would be willing to make the commitment to follow up on that and see what got done last year.

Thank you, Minister. In a broad sense, the Member asked why there are so many carry-overs for this particular department. Do you have a general answer as to why this department has so many carry-overs in particular?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, because this is parks, they have a very short season to get a lot of this work done. I would think that that would be the reason for some of the carry-overs. There are some projects that need to be done when the weather warms up. Again, I have committed to trying to find a little bit more information and share that with committee. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I appreciate the Minister's offer, but it really isn't necessary. I don't need more detail. I am just trying to understand why there are so many carry-overs from last year. One is the short construction season. I am wondering whether it is also difficult to find contractors in some of these small locations. I am just trying to get a sense of what the barrier is here. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the Member is correct. The short construction season, we understand, and my understanding is that there is trouble finding contractors sometimes to go into some of these places. That would be a couple of the reasons for the amount of carry-overs: short construction season and the issue with finding contractors. If there are contractors listening out there, there is an opportunity, because there is fairly significant carry-over. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Ms. Green.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I urge the Minister and also the Minister of ITI to consider how to move these projects along. We all know that tourism is a growing industry here in the NWT, and it is important to keep the parks in good repair and repair the things that are broken down, like the shower house in Fort Providence. The sooner that this work can be done, the better. I hope that the Minister will be able to move these projects along and ensure that our parks are ready for visitors. That is a comment, not a question, and I have nothing further.

Thank you, Ms. Green. Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this is just more of a general comment, not particularly towards this department's investments, but I would like to ask the Minister in a general sense if they would consider own sources or project management type of approaches to some of these.

Some of these projects are near some of the communities where you have fairly highly skilled individuals that do work on buildings. In my community of Fort Resolution, I think when they built the health centre, the department may have had one person from an actual contract go in, and the rest were all local people. They had a lot of local skilled people in quite a few communities across the territory.

I am wondering, if this is becoming an issue where you are having trouble getting contractors, I think contractors are definitely the first way to do the projects, but I would ask if the Minister could maybe talk to the various departments to see if many of this work can be done locally at the community level and see if we could get more projects done within the appropriate fiscal year. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I take the Member's point, and I think it is something that we need to look at if there is trouble getting contractors in some of these places, if we were to get a qualified person into the community to hire some locals to do the work and have them oversee it and sign off on it, because I think, for some of these, you almost have to be a journeyman carpenter now.

I have seen it work in the past. In one of the communities that I lived in, I have seen where they had a local journeyman. They had a number of workers that worked there, and they actually did a very good job.

I think that this is something that I will have discussion with my Cabinet colleagues about, if there is a way that we can advance this. One of our mandate items is trying to put people to work, and if we can do that, I think it will be a bonus, not only for this government, but for the community as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am on page 13. There is a list of projects under tourism and parks. I am particularly interested in the K1 Kitchen Shelter Replacement. The line item is $304,000, which seems to be quite high, considering the replacement of the manager's residence in Kakisa is only $200,000. I have been to at least one of the kitchen shelters in the park, and I am just wondering if we can get some justification on the value for money for this project. I mean, it seems very, very high. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, my understanding is that they have identified a lot of issues with the existing structure, and it represents a risk to health and safety, but I think the Member's question is why the replacement is costing $304,000. I am not quite sure. My understanding is that they are going to do a design contract to be awarded in the spring of 2018 with construction in the fall of 2018. I am not sure exactly what the specs are for the new shelter. I would have to follow up with the Department of Infrastructure and see. I take the Member's point, though. You are looking at $304,000. Slightly larger than a phone booth.

Thank you. Mr. Testart.

Thank you, and I appreciate the Minister sharing some of my concerns, but at this point, the Minister believes that this appropriation is appropriate for this project? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, when this was originally introduced, I believe we had passed it in the capital budget session, and it seemed to be appropriate at the time. Again, without knowing the details and the specs required for the new facility, it is probably not fair for me to comment on that, but once we know the details or have a conceptual design, then we will have a pretty good indication.

Maybe it's the cost of doing business in the capital, as well, and I don't mean that in a negative way, but there is a higher cost to doing business in the capital. It is less expensive in some of the smaller communities.

I will keep on top of this. I will have a discussion with the appropriate departments and see exactly what this building looks like. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Testart.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know this Minister in particular has an eye for cost savings. I am confident that he will take this matter seriously, and if there is value for money to be had, he will find a way to have it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Nothing further from Mr. Testart. I will go to Mr. McNeely.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am just looking at page 12, tourism and parks, carried over to page 13. I am glad to see that there is a significant amount of money going to our territorial parks programming and inventory for O and M and upkeep and upgrade.

On the issue of the Canol Heritage Trail Emergency Shelters, allowed for $372,000, I am glad to see that is back on a carry-over. As I understand, some of the logistics in seeing this project through resulted into a barging schedule and mountain weather; so I am glad it is in there.

Overall, I am glad to see that we are taking a vested interest in our territorial park upgrade and maintenance. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Would the Minister care to respond? No response from the Minister. Seeing no one further on my list, I will call this department. Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures, economic diversification and business support, not previously authorized, $3,860,000. Does committee agree?

Agreed.

Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures, tourism and parks, not previously authorized, $3,508,000. Does committee agree?

Agreed.

Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $7,368,000. Does committee agree?

Agreed.

Thank you, committee. Please turn to page 14 and 15, which have the details for the Department of Infrastructure. Comments or questions? Mr. Nakimayak.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On page 14, the third line, Inuvik to Tuktoyaktuk all-weather highway - various for $191,000, I am just wondering if the Minister can give some details on that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister McLeod.