Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I would be interested to know if the department is working with the Department of Health and Social Services. They are working on this Addictions Recovery Action Plan, which looks at the recommendations that committee made about after-care, including not discharging people from an institutional setting, whether a jail or a treatment centre or a hospital, into homelessness. I am wondering if they are working alongside Health and Social Services on that issue. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Mr. Goldney.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know we are working with our colleagues, and they have been involved in some of the program design work. I can’t comment specifically on whether or not the release into homelessness and those supports have been addressed. I do know that we have been working closely with Health and Social Services and sharing not just our planned programming, but there is interest in some of the modular programming that we are delivering through Correction Services and Probation Services, as well. We do recognize that there is tremendous value in furthering that partnership. We do anticipate that as we try and address our shared challenges, that we will continue to work with Health and Social Services. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think that partnership is really important. The people need the same kind of supports. They are coming from different places to after-care. They might be coming out of a treatment program rather than out of jail, but they need the same kind of services to maintain their sobriety and successfully reintegrate into the community. I am glad to hear they are working together. Just back to the beginning of this, which is the fence, how does the fence work into this? Is it necessary to make South Mackenzie into a medium-security jail? Or is it to section off the therapeutic model part? I am still not 100 percent with the fence. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Yes. The fence is needed to turn the facility into a medium-custody facility, just as Guthrie House is in British Columbia, which is part of the Nanaimo Correctional Centre. This is a necessary change if we wish to move to this model. As I say, we are optimistic about moving to the model, optimistic that we will get results. Thank you.
Thank you. Next, I have Mr. Thompson.
Thank you. If it changes to medium security, what happens to the minimum-security residents? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Yes, thank you. It is important to remember that we do have other facilities in Yellowknife and in Fort Smith. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Okay. Thank you. Is the Minister saying that these inmates who are minimum security are going to be moved to Yellowknife or Fort Smith?
Thank you. Minister.
My understanding, subject to being corrected here, is that there could be minimum people in the program. However, many of the minimum security inmates are serving very short sentences and that's not the sort of sentence that would fit into this type of program. Perhaps Mr. Goldney can add or correct that if I've made an error. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Perhaps, Mr. Goldney, you could point out if there are other minimum security facilities in the territory where these minimum security inmates could go. Mr. Goldney.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Our facility in Yellowknife is multi-level security, so it could accommodate from minimum to the higher security, as can Fort Smith. We do anticipate that there might be inmates who would normally be minimum security sentence offenders who, absent the therapeutic community programming, would be sent to Hay River. The reality is, if we transform that institution into a therapeutic community, it will be reserved for inmates eligible for that therapeutic community model and programming. If they are not participating in that program, we would have to find spaces for them in our other facilities.
Just to be clear, a minimum security offender could be eligible for the programming through a therapeutic community in Hay River.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank the Minister and Mr. Goldney for that answer.
The Guthrie model was minimum of four months, that you have to be in the program for four months. Minimum security, how is that going to work? Usually it's less than three months. Can the Minister advise how those individuals are going to be part of it? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Although minimum security generally are those that receive shorter sentences, that's quite correct. There certainly would be some, I imagine, that would be minimum security that would receive four months or more. Perhaps not that many, but there would be some. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. If you look at the people that serve time, you know, two thirds of their time, realistically you need somebody that's going to get six months in minimum security do the full time. That's, you know, maxed out, good behaviour, and that. How is that going to help people that may be minimum security that, you know, get less than three months but need this or want to be part of this process?
I know, when we were at Guthrie House, some of the residents said straight up that this here, they asked for more time. They said, "Whoa, we don't want to go anywhere. We want to stay. We want to finish the program." How are we able to do that with this program? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Well, in my long experience, not too many ask for more time. I understand what you're saying. I mean we couldn't keep people in there who weren't serving a sentence. Obviously, they would have to avail themselves of other programs.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm going on to another topic here because I'm still a little concerned right now. Could he explain about the probation office tenant improvements for the community of Fort Liard?
Thank you. Minister.
I think I'm told that that's to align the office security with the acceptable standards of 2018. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Thompson.
I'm just looking through my notes here. I have one more about the fence issue here. Just so I understand this correctly, inmates who are minimum security will be now mixed with medium or maximum security inmates. Is this correct? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Yes, that certainly is possible, that prisoners with different designations would be mixed together, but I think that that wouldn't be such a big problem because you have to be motivated to want to enter the program. Hopefully, we would have motivated people from whatever security designation: minimum, medium, or maximum. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can the Minister just advise us of what minimum, medium, or maximum involves in the Northwest Territories? Are we talking one day less two years is your maximum? Is that where you you're at? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
I don't have a chart or something along those lines, but common sense tells me that it's not necessarily the length of the sentence that determines which designation you would fall into. It's probably the type of offence, the record, are likely a major part in deciding which category incoming inmates fall into. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess common sense and hope would be that we'd be able to see something of a plan. Is this part of the plan? Is this information going to be provided? I'm sorry if I missed when you were answering Mr. Simpson's answer to that, but is there a plan that's available to explain to committee exactly how this program is going to work? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Certainly, we would be willing to share with committee. We would be very pleased to appear in front of committee to discuss this matter, our plans. We are working on program design at this time. We will be pleased also to discuss what training we are contemplating for the staff. Yes, we're very happy to appear in front of committee, should they wish. Thank you.
Thank you. Earlier, the Minister agreed to produce a detailed plan with timelines and present it publicly. Thank you. Mr. Thompson, nothing further?
Seeing nothing further, I will call this activity. Justice, corrections, infrastructure investments, $4 million. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Please turn to page 51, court services. Justice, court services. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have noticed that there is another project here for the Yellowknife Courthouse. I'm wondering if the Minister can speak to the feasibility study that's going into the potential stand-alone courthouse here, in the city of Yellowknife. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know this is a long-standing concern to certainly the bar and bench. I can advise that we are working on a business case. That should be available by the end of November, at which point we could appear in front of committee and share that with them. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will take that as a commitment from the Minister. How many more resources are we going to expend up on this building that we currently rent from a private landlord? This is $341,000. There has been significantly more than that expended in the past. Are we going to continue to put millions of dollars into someone else's property, or are we going to complete these renos that are before us now, and then move on with a stand-alone courthouse? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
