Yes. Our plan is to complete these current renovations that I know that committee might feel is throwing good money after bad, but even if we do move to a new stand-alone courthouse, and that is yet to be determined, clearly, it would take some time to build that or make those arrangements. I think we are going to be using the current Yellowknife courthouse for some period of time into the future, and we need to make sure that it is usable and up-to-date as possible.
Certainly, I hear the Member's concerns about putting additional money into a building we don't own. I hear you. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is nice to be heard. We spend a lot of time speaking in this House, so it is nice that the Minister is taking this matter seriously. I look forward to seeing the feasibility study. I appreciate that this appropriation is largely to improve the quality of service available at the Yellowknife courthouse to those seeking mediation and, also, to improve security conditions for the staff there, and for those reasons, I am supportive of this.
My only concern is that if we are spending money in a feasibility study, let's make sure that it is actually going somewhere and not just a project we are going to shelve, like we have already done with a Yellowknife courthouse project. If we can avoid that in the future and actually make a decision about this, I know that can be difficult, but we are the only jurisdiction in Canada without a stand-alone courthouse. My understanding, as well, is that the federal government has contributed to courthouse projects in the past, so I think that there are options out there for the Minister to consider.
I know the proposal is taking the P3 approach, so I look forward to that coming proposal, because, quite frankly, every study we have done on our situation with the Yellowknife Courthouse has shown that it is not good value for money, and that is one of the reasons we are here, to protect the taxpayer's interest and ensure that we have good value for money in our projects. This appropriation, if we continue to do this, I don't think it is good value for money. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Justice, court services, infrastructure investments, $341,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Please turn to page 48. I will call the departmental total. Justice, total capital estimates, $4,341,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Thank you to the Minister and the witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, you may escort the witnesses from the Chamber.
Committee, we have agreed to next consider the NWT Housing Corporation, which begins on page 66 of the capital estimates. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.
Minister Moses, would you please introduce your witnesses?
Thank you, Mr. Chair. On my left is Tom Williams, president and CEO of the NWT Housing Corporation, and on my right is Mr. Jim Martin, vice president, finance and infrastructure for the NWT Housing Corporation. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. There is a single item in this department. We will defer the departmental total. Actually, committee, just to get things right here, does committee agree with that we have concluded consideration of the Department of Justice?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. We will now move on to the Housing Corporation. The total capital estimates are on page 66, but the detail starts on page 67. There is a project listing on page 68. I will start the questions with Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. On page 68, it talks about the LHO office and warehouse in Fort Liard. Can the Minister elaborate on that? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As the Member knows and brought this up on a few occasions, asking for investments to an LHO office in Fort Liard, we have put it into the capital budget, and we will be moving forward with that project. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you. I thank the Minister for that and ensuring that this is a worthwhile project. I know that the Housing Corporation has been doing some good work in getting the office going there. This is a nice step forward.
I see a number of major renovations in Fort Liard, Fort Simpson, and Wrigley. Can the Minister just elaborate a little further on those renovations, please? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Just kind of general overview, when we look at our capital planning process, we do look at our public housing stock. Once they get over the age of 40 years old, we look at replacing them, and then we also do some M and I, which is modernization and improvement, when the units reach the age of 20 and 35 years old.
Other factors that we consider are unit condition rating and the operating performance of the units. Just in general, any questions that come on how the capital planning process is selected, that is how we identify them. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you. I appreciate the answer from the Minister. Mr. Chair, can the Minister advise, when they are doing these major retrofits and that, how does that impact the clients or the people using these facilities? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. When we do the major retrofits, if it doesn't impact the client or the tenant, they can stay in the unit. If it will impact them, then we try to find a replacement unit for them while we do the major retrofit on the units themselves. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank the Minister for that clarification. That is very helpful to understand.
I noticed in the plan here that there are no market rent units being put into some of the Nahendeh riding communities. Can the Minister advise when the communities will start seeing the market rent units come into some of these facilities, please? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is based on the annual assessment of need right across the territory, and in the Member's riding, we have identified a couple of market rental units, and we will have discussions moving forward. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you. I appreciate that answer from the Minister. In regards to Sambaa K'e, we have known there are a number of units that are vacated, boarded up, or not being utilized, and the community has been looking at trying to access those facilities. What is the corporation's plan for those facilities? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I believe Sambaa K'e isn't on the list here for a replacement. One thing that I do want to let the Member know is that, in some cases, you are not going to see some communities on the acquisition list. That's because there are unit condition ratings if the units are over 70 percent or the community had significant past investments in the last couple of years. There might be some vacancies in the units as well. We do it on a needs assessment. Every community, we do take a look at in terms of what is needed. I know, in terms of Sambaa K'e, we have put some investments in the past. All the current units that they have are over 70 percent.
If the leadership are looking at those boarded-up units, one thing I have done since I have been Minister in working with some of the leadership is get them in touch with the district office to have them start up those conversations. I would encourage the leadership to contact our district office. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you. I appreciate the Minister's answer for that. I will be getting a hold of leadership in Sambaa K'e to reach out to the district manager in Nahendeh there. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Next, I have Mr. McNeely.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. First of all, I would like to thank the department for a trip that we had made to do some strategy housing discussions here by the Deline Got'ine Government on October the 5th. It was very informative and appreciated by the leadership and me.
Just adding to my colleague from Nahendeh's statement here about these boarded-up units, there are actually two different types in most of the communities that I represent. I see boarded-up units that could be referred to as the "ex-homeownership units" under the HELP program. The tenants or the occupants by default are under mortgage, so those units are sitting there. Some of them, I do believe, are still very structurally sound buildings. I just saw one on our last trip to Deline there where I think if a replacement of under the program to replace the fuel tank. I noticed the meter was gone off at the building. That has to be recertified. It's probably going to cost in the neighbourhood of $6,000 to $8,000 to get power hooked up in those units.
If the department in their capital initiatives for this year's capital plan could do an inventory of those types of units and see what it will take to bring them back into the marketplace here for future tenants, in some cases there, the boarded-up units have been taken off at the windows and the doors and snow has collected inside. That tells me that the floor insulation is probably damaged. I'm just encouraging the department if they can do an inventory assessment of all these units and all the communities, not the public housing units, but the ex-HELP units or the ex-homeownership units, then we can decide how many units we have out there, in which communities, and part of the inventory could include what it will take to renovate them to put them back into the marketplace here. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the Member's comments, and I appreciate working with the leadership as well and going in and having those initiative discussions. We also do have the fuel tank replacement program. He mentioned something on the fuel tanks there.
In terms of inventory and investments, we do have a community support initiative program that I believe are already working with the leadership on how that is going to kind of unfold, as well as the community housing plans that I had mentioned numerous times in the House here, that, if they look at creating a housing plan for the community, that might be something that they will identify. I know our staff is already working with them on that community housing initiative support program. Hopefully, we will see some good things out of that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. McNeely.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will also suggest, as part of the inventory, we can include an assessment of the outstanding mortgage of that particular unit, as well as the appraised value of the unit, so we can determine what it's going to cost from that point. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. In some cases, when we look at some of the units and if they are beyond repair, what we would do is dispose of the unit and just do a new build if it's beyond repair. I just let the Member know that instead of putting all that work through and take the rest of his comments. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Next, I have Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, could the Minister tell us how many new units will be built in the next fiscal year, anywhere in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. If you look on the acquisition list there, the second one from the bottom, you will see a seniors' mixed rent complex. We are looking up to 25 new units for that one in particular. That will be both a mixed market and a public house complex. Thank you.
Thank you. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the clarification that that's 25 units. I note that there are, if I understand this correctly, four units of market housing in Ulukhaktok and two in Hay River, so the total then is 31 units next year. Is that correct?
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, that is correct.
Thank you. Ms. Green.
