Debates of October 31, 2018 (day 47)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, to this motion, I cannot support it after also speaking with my leadership in my riding. They feel that it's better to work with the Minister in any portfolio. You know, to get what we need in our ridings, we always have to work with one another, whoever the Ministers are, and at this point in this Assembly, we don't feel it's right to replace the Ministers. Say, if we were to replace one of the Ministers today, it would take anybody at least six months to nine months to get familiar with that portfolio. We're less than a year away from our next election, and we'd really waste a lot of time, especially in the portfolio the Member for Hay River South is facing that has many portfolios.

Sure, we don't always get the answers that we want on this side, and the other thing is, just because we're the majority on any side, we can't be controlling what Cabinet is doing all the time. In my riding, we don't always get what we want to get in our budgets, but we try our best to work with the Ministers.

I know that sometimes when we ask questions we always joke around with one another. Yes, sometimes it does upset us when the Ministers laugh, but we always do the same, especially after you keep bringing up different things through statements. How many times have I brought up Willow River? The Minister knows that file very well, and, sure, he might get a chuckle in there every once in a while when I bring it up.

To be serious, it does upset us once in a while when Ministers do that, but we all have to work together here, and I don't think it's right, just because we're a majority, to take out one of these Ministers with less than a year to go.

Mr. Speaker, in the early part of July, I had a feeling we were going to be in this situation because I live in Tsiigehtchic on the Mackenzie River and I saw buoys floating by the communities. So, of course, I was wondering to myself: how long will it take to get these buoys back in place? With updates from the Minister, it took 10 days to two weeks to get these buoys back in place. So of course that's going to have some effect on the barging system.

The other thing was: we had an extremely cool summer up in the Beaufort Delta. Of course, that is going to have an impact on the weather, you know, with ice conditions. The other thing is: I know it cost so far a little over $3 million, but it could have been worse. You know, if we didn't fulfill those other contracts -- just today, we had a briefing with the Minister. It could have been worse. It could have been in the $20 to $30 million range.

You know, I am not defending the department, but I am sure in the communities, like, I haven't spoken to any of my friends in those communities. I am sure this also created some employment. I mean, we haven't looked at that fact yet. You know, as we move forward, Mr. Speaker, I am sure we will get that information. For today, I cannot support this motion. Thank you.

Masi. To the motion. Member for Frame Lake.

Merci, Monsieur le President. I have tried very carefully to choose my words here today. I take the issue of removal of a Cabinet Minister very seriously.

There is nothing personal in how I have arrived at my decision on the two Ministers up for review. This is about getting results for NWT residents and whether we have the right team in place for doing this for the remainder of our term. I personally like the Minister under discussion. I believe he brings valuable experience to this Assembly and has made a valuable contribution. However, I must assess his progress objectively on mandate items and handling of several important files.

I supported the purchase of the NTCL assets and the formation of Marine Transportation Services. This was a necessary step to ensure that we can continue to resupply our communities for a reasonable cost. I have no problem with MTS competing for private shipping contracts to ensure an efficient use of our assets. That should drive down shipping costs for our communities. What I do have issues with is the lack of involvement of Regular MLAs in developing a long-term approach to MTS and accountability and transparency around MTS. I disagreed with the way the MTS revolving fund was fast-tracked, and decisions that any surpluses not be used for environmental remediation.

At the same time, I also have concerns about the way Cabinet continues to use appropriations for expenditures that should be rightfully assigned to the revolving fund and how large capital items are amortized over very long periods of time. Reporting to the public and MLAs definitely needs to be improved, and the recent shipping failure to coastal communities is a prime example of poor communications. I heard about problems through the media. I asked the Minister for clarification and had to wait days for a response. I don't think we are out of the woods yet, especially with very significant airlift costs yet to be assigned to at least two revolving funds without an overall plan for now and into the future.

I have worked very hard to convince the Minister that we need real economic diversification for the NWT that includes much greater investment in tourism. The Northern Frontier Visitors' Centre was in my riding. If the funds now being spent on that building had been invested even 18 months ago, I am convinced we would still have a functioning centre here in Yellowknife. I just don't understand why we spend more on a visitors' centre in Dawson, Yukon, than we do in our capital city.

I have openly criticized the overwhelming focus of the Minister on large infrastructure projects, roads to resources, and the lack of social infrastructure investments and submissions to the federal government, particularly in the areas of housing, tourism, culture, and building the knowledge and conservation economies. Roads scaled to our capacity to retain benefits and in areas with fewer serious impacts can provide economic development opportunities. However, the relentless pursuit of large projects such as the Slave Geological Province Road and Taltson expansion have not received adequate analysis and have precluded any serious efforts at diversification.

I am deeply disturbed by the so-called Resources and Energy Development Information, REDI, initiative that is more about promotion of resource development than about providing balanced information and tools to enable citizen participation in resource development decisions. It also includes the use of educational materials in our schools that are about promotion of mining rather than giving our students balanced information and skills to make informed decisions.

The Minister has also refused to carry out any kind of review of onshore hydraulic fracturing, even though it is part of our mandate and while our government has agreed to a science-based, life-cycle impact assessment review of offshore development.

The most serious issue with the leadership of the Minister, in my view, is the failure to undertake any review of the resource revenues that we now can control following devolution. Such a review was promised when I asked questions early on during the life of this Assembly and was even within the scope of the issues to be addressed in the Mineral Resources Act.

While billions of dollars of resources are extracted here each year, revenues to our government have been described by an international expert as paltry and our management as "one of the world's most charitable fiscal regimes for the mining sector." We need to start acting in the public interest and ensure there is a fair return for this one-time natural capital. I have recommended an independent review to the Minister on numerous occasions, but he has refused to do this during the life of this Assembly. I believe that refusing to even look at the idea in the face of learned evidence challenging the adequacy of our revenue regime is an instance of stubborn refusal on the part of this Minister, for which I hold him accountable.

If we are going to have a Minister who is responsible for both promoting and regulating resource development, we need that Minister to take a balanced approach where the public interest is put before the interests of the private sector. I want mining, too, as much as anybody else, but we must do a much better job at retaining the benefits and doing it in a sustainable way. We have failed to evolve after the devolve and truly demonstrate we can responsibly manage our resources.

Mr. Speaker, for all these reasons, I cannot support the Minister continuing in his current role. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Masi. To the motion. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with the information that I now have, I am satisfied the Minister has managed an effective solution to the stranded cargo for the High Arctic, which will not increase the expense to customers. Further, he has taken steps to be better prepared in the future by stockpiling fuel in the Arctic communities. Therefore, I will be voting against this motion.

Masi. To the motion. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Marsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today in favour of this motion. I believe that there have been mistakes made in the delivery of goods to the High Arctic communities. Initially, when NTCL was purchased by this government, I was surprised. I believe it happened around Christmas a couple years ago. I was surprised that NTCL was purchased and then, further on, surprised that MTS was created out of NTCL.

At that point, I thought, well, I guess it would be a positive thing since NTCL may not be able to continue operations, but I also felt that, with our growing debt, I thought it would difficult for our government to buy all these things, considering that we often hear on small initiatives that we need, in our small communities, for employment.

Little initiatives like small roads, access roads, and things like that, docks, these are little items that we had requested in the communities. Often, I am not able to get it through the budgetary process. I think a Member has indicated that we ask for things and that our small items are often refused, while it was easy for the Cabinet to purchase NTCL and put it into operation.

I also know that some of the equipment that was purchased from NTCL was likely grandfathered and not something that we would be able to bring in new into the system at that point. We bought a lot of equipment like that that would probably not be usable the next time the regulations are upgraded or even maybe beyond use now. For that reason, I know that the federal government is supporting our government to buy new barges.

I thought that the shipment of the items into the High Arctic communities, I felt that was a mistake because I thought that then it happened so many times. This happened so many times by a company that was in the business of doing it and knew how to do it. They were successful in delivering the items into the communities.

We, on the other hand, had only the second opportunity this year, this summer, to be able to deliver the materials. At this point, we have essentially a 50 percent failure rate on delivering things to the High Arctic communities. Even that is, you know, there are a lot of factors involved in that. The solution, and what kind of got to me, I know that flying everything in would be expensive, but as another Member said, maybe there's a way. There are some costs offset and it may not be as expensive as possible.

The refusal for this Minister to actually listen to solutions was what kind of made me wonder if he was serious about trying to solve the issue or was just insisting on defending himself, or saying, "No, it's not my fault, so there's no reason for me to come up with a solution." You know, I had the question and I asked the Minister: how about a regional operation out of Inuvik as an example? An example, I thought that just pretty well all of the Mackenzie Valley communities could be serviced by winter road right up to Fort Good Hope. Then when you get to Tsiigehtchic, an all-season road and all-season road to Inuvik, all-season road to Tuktoyaktuk. The only other community on this side of the Northwest Territories that needed to have barge service is Lutselk'e. Lutselk'e, I believe, gets one, maybe two barges, but mostly one barge per year handles that community. I thought a small scaled-down operation in Hay River and then a smaller operation out of Inuvik to address the Arctic communities who had no other options. Lutselk'e and the Arctic communities that didn't get their items this year on a barge have no option except the barge.

The government spends a lot of money building winter roads. All of the Sahtu, all of the Tlicho communities are all winter road communities, and they don't barge in there, but they manage without a barge. I thought that a nice solution might be to set something up in Inuvik and then out of Inuvik to be able to barge out of there and have a small regional operation there. One in Hay River seemed like a good solution for me. I felt that it would also be a lower cost to the Marine Transportation Services. I guess there was the private business that that company was after, or the department was after that, you know, wanted to continue to barge out of Hay River all the way into the Inuvik communities.

I felt that the Minister could have listened and at least maybe given us a response to say, "Yes, I will look into it." That would have been essentially all that would have satisfied me, the idea of looking into it, the idea of having a small scaled-down operation in two locations and still run by the government and not compete against a private business of other people, needed items and private items. See, the items they could get a private shipper to bring the stuff to them.

Our reason for backing MTS was to provide a service to our citizens, citizens in the Northwest Territories at the best economic possibility, but the Minister indicated to me in the House here that wouldn't happen as long as he was still Minister.

For that reason, we are here today because we felt like we needed to find some sort of solution to the issues that were created. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Masi. To the motion. Member for Nunakput.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a lot of this has stemmed from the issues in, you know, the delivery to Paulatuk, Ulukhaktok got some of their goods. Paulatuk didn't receive a lot. A lot of my pressures on my colleagues and mainly to the Minister is coming from my constituents. I have had some difficulties working with the Minister on some of the issues. I'm sure one of the reasons might be they didn't have answers at the time. However, I believe that, you know, in this Assembly, we are all equals. What separates one side of the floor to the other is our roles as Regular Members and as well as our roles as Ministers and Premier.

Mr. Speaker, I believe, you know, when issues come like this, the Premier himself should, as well, too, look at his Cabinet and say, "Well, how can we make this better?" How do we make a system like this better where we have this many Ministers on this side and we have, there are a lot of portfolios that are actually very, very humungous in departments within the GNWT, and some that may need to be restructured so that they can be managed more effectively for the residents of the territory? At the end of the day, sometimes money loss or goods not delivered has social impacts on the people who depend on it; on, you know, receiving their snowmobiles, their vehicles, their quads, their boats, and all the things like that that give them the opportunity to go out and harvest. As well, maybe even take on contracts within the GNWT or the programs that are around the Northwest Territories.

I would like for the Premier to take a hard look at that. Mr. Speaker, I believe looking at that and restructuring the, you know, the current structure that it is right now. What seems to be failing is why we are right here right now.

Mr. Speaker, I won't take up too much time of everyone's here. This afternoon, right after the briefing, the leadership from my region actually came into my office and they said, "This is how you are going to vote and this is what you need to do to work with the Minister and Cabinet and the Regular MLAs." You know, I vote on behalf of my constituents who I represent, and I believe that's fair business.

Mr. Speaker, I didn't bring too many notes, but I believe that, you know, the current Minister and the other Minister who is in question today, I believe that we need to really work together to get things done. A lot of the times, we are the ones doing a lot of the groundwork with our constituents, you know, with the regions. The Minister, I think they need to be more open. I think that's where the Premier can give us better access to his Ministers, so that we are more effective in the work that we do. It takes teamwork to work together. It doesn't take one or two people. It doesn't take the Premier or it doesn't take the MTS Minister to get something done. It actually takes teamwork to plan. Sometimes, they have the expertise within their departments. We have the expertise on the ground. That's where we can actually work together and collaborate, and actually, you know, maybe even cooperate together. Sometimes, this is one of the reasons why we are here is a lack of cooperation on both sides and lack of accessibility to the Minister, and sometimes the Premier. I think we need to really structure this government, you know, going into the next year.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that I can make a good MTS Minister out of the MLA from Hay River South by working together and ensuring that we don't lose this last year and actually plan to ensure that we are strategic in accessing and looking at funds, federal funds. You know, we talk about sovereignty in the North. We talk about ports. We know that we are a long ways away from a deep sea port. That doesn't mean that we can't start now.

What we need to do is be forward thinking. Right now, we are looking back. Okay. How do we fix this? Let's use that, bring it forward and ensure that the Minister has everything that he has to work with to make a better plan.

I know there were multiple errors on this operation that brought us to where we are today. I think that's what we need to focus on and pinpoint those and really, really focus on how we can improve those and make them stronger, you know. Rather than firing, I think we can make a really good person out of them and really good team player and even a leader of a department. You know, we could actually really do that. I believe that we have that here in us today and looking forward.

We have a year left in this Assembly. I believe that, you know, after having a chat with the leadership from Nunakput, they were like, "Well, what are we going to lose? What's lost?" They are the ones who have a lot of knowledge on the ground, too. They have projects that are ongoing with the government as well as with the federal government, and as well outside of the country. I think we need to really, really sit back and look at this day and say, "Well, you know what? Let's make this better for everybody else."

I looked at this motion this morning. I was like, "You know what? Hey, I'm going to go for this," but now I'm like, "Well, after listening to my constituents, I believe that, you know what? What my job will be for the next, you know, the next two quarters is to ensure that the Minister is accountable and ensure that the Minister is working with the people from Nunakput to make a better plan for MTS. Not just for MTS, but being strategic about how we supply the northern part of the territory."

Mr. Speaker, Canada is so vast and wide. The Northwest Territories are vast as well, too; north and south. There is a system here on Great Slave Lake which is good, which is in the Minister's riding. There is also the Mackenzie River, which supplies the northern part of the territory.

Mr. Speaker, what if there is a drought one year and they cannot get the barges from Hay River down the Mackenzie River to the port in Inuvik or to the port in Tuktoyaktuk? We can have them as a logistical point. I believe I'm about logistics. I think we need to look at all of those hard and look at this mistake, which costs right now maybe $3.4 million, but what we know, it might up to five by the time you pay all of the subcontractors. I believe that the Minister has it in him to come to us and start to work with us. He serves our people all the time.

Mr. Speaker, he spends a lot of time with the leadership in our region as well, too. I believe that what we need to look at is the GNWT or Cabinet working more closely with Indigenous governments as well, too. There are oil and gas possibilities in my region. You know what, I have heard that some of those talks went awry, but also we need to look at the cost of living in the territory and really focusing on that. Not so much on the bottom line of the Government of the Northwest Territories, but the social impacts that it has for our residents.

Mr. Speaker, I'm not going to support this motion, just because I believe that I can work with the Minister. The Minister, I hope, is more and more willing to spend time with Regular Members, especially when he travels to Ottawa.

Sometimes, there are projects in some parts of the territory that are in Regular MLAs' regions. I think that the Ministers need to look at that and work together more closely, as well as with our mayors, as well as our Indigenous leaders. We really need to restructure how we work together, because right now, two week ago, I was upset. I was saying that, you know, Cabinet has become living in a cocoon. They are not really working outside of anything, but now we are sitting here. I believe this is our time to open them up and start to work together more and more closely. We all have our faults. We all have our strengths, but that doesn't mean that we don't work together. We are someone strong. We help where there is a weakness. I think that is how we need to kind of look forward together.

Mr. Speaker, even yourself as a Speaker of the House, you see that. You have been here a long time. I believe that we have a chance to work together. I am not demanding, but I am requesting that the Minister work more closely with Regular MLAs, so that we can be more effective for the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Masi. To the motion. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to this motion of revocation today.

The first thing I want to get out there on the record is, you know, we have a democracy system here, and I believe it. The question I was asked by a number of people is: why? I said there is a process in place that allows Members of this Legislative Assembly to bring a motion like this forward to have this discussion. That is what we have done today.

Every Member has spoken on this issue across the floor. They have all voiced their opinion. They have all mentioned who they are going to vote for. This motion of revocation has brought up a bunch of issues today on the floor of the House; not just about what is happening at MTS.

MTS, I could stand here and defend it all day long as I have had in the House and where I have in the press. I encourage everybody in this Assembly today to go to the public briefing that will be posted by the Legislative Assembly. It clearly lays out everything that has everything and everything we plan on doing, so I am not going to get into that debate.

On the other side of it, the Members have also brought other issues forward of concern with not just myself, but with this Assembly and this Cabinet going forward. That is what this Assembly is for. It is here for the people of the Northwest Territories to have those public debates back and forth to come to some kind of consensus. Consensus doesn't mean everyone has to agree on it, to where we are going to take this government and our policies and legislations, and that is what we are doing.

Not everyone is going to be happy. To be in this business, you have to have thick skin, and I mean thick skin. Even to stand here today to defend myself, you have to be able to handle that.

I believe this Assembly is working hard for the people of the Northwest Territories. One of the greatest things that I think that has happened in this Assembly is the Premier clearly laid out that we had to go out and visit as many people as we can. I can stand here with true honesty and say I have been to all 33 communities in this Northwest Territories.

We have had an open and public process. We have had open public appearances by Cabinet with residents of the Northwest Territories in many communities. We get feedback on a regular basis. We have just had an economic summit with all the leaders of the Northwest Territories. We are continually reaching out. Collaboration is what this government is built on. We will continue to do that, but like I said, you have to have thick skin.

This is consensus. Not everyone in this room has to agree on a decision. I stand behind the decisions that I have made. Maybe they don't make everyone happy in this House, but I believe I get all the accurate information and make a decision based on what is presented in front of me. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Masi. To the motion. Member for Yellowknife South.

Mr. Speaker, in December of 2015, through a territorial leadership committee, all 19 Members voted to select a Premier in Cabinet. During the mid-term review, I said that the whole of Cabinet is greater on the sum of its parts, Mr. Speaker. As a Cabinet, we challenge each other to perform to a high standard for the people of the Northwest Territories. We are able to put our political and philosophical differences aside to focus on what is best for the people, regardless of what we may believe personally.

Regular Members have a similar role, and have also worked to keep Cabinet accountable for their decisions. Accountability and democracy are inseparable. The people who elect us to exercise power on their behalf place enormous faith in each one of us. Collectively and individually, we need to earn and maintain that trust by submitting our decisions and actions to the judgment of the people we serve openly and transparently.

Every four years, the people of the Northwest Territories have the opportunity to directly convey their judgment about our actions in a territorial election. This is accountability at its most immediate and direct. There is nothing like facing an angry voter on the campaign trail to remind you who is boss and how hard we need to work to earn and maintain the trust our constituents place in us.

Accountability between elections is no less direct and no less real. As a government, we are accountable to the people in the Northwest Territories through their elected representatives in this House. Every time we are asked a question, we are being asked to account for our decisions and actions. Every time our budgets and plans for implementing them are examined and debated in committee or in this House, we are being asked to account for our decisions and actions. Every time government legislation is introduced for debate and disposition by this House, we are being asked to account for our decisions and actions.

At almost any moment on every day that this House sits, Regular Members have ample opportunity and the tools to hold Ministers to account for living up to the expectations of the Assembly and the people who elected us, including the ability to remove anyone one of us from Cabinet at any time. Accountability needs to be about more than personality, Mr. Speaker. Accountability is about keeping our promises. For the 18th Assembly, our mandate is our promise to the people of this territory.

I believe Minister Schumann has been doing a good job and should remain as Minister. Minister Schumann has worked hard to fulfill the mandate commitments his departments are responsible for, including critical commitments to bring federal investment to the Northwest Territories and grow and diversify the economy to create a strong future for our residents. He has also led planning work to transform our energy system so that we can reduce our reliance on diesel in our communities, reduce our greenhouse gas emissions, and address the high costs of living residents face.

Minister Schumann has also been one of the most effective advocates for the Northwest Territories and his people as a Minister. During this Assembly, he has helped deliver hundreds of millions in federal investment to our territory and secure close to $1 billion in federal funding, including over $115 million for road construction projects, like the Canyon Creek access road, Wrigley to Mount Gaudet access road, and Great Bear River Bridge, as well as funding for environmental and planning studies for the Mackenzie Valley Highway, a long-standing priority and one of our mandate commitments. He recently announced the federal investment of $23 million under the Low Carbon Economy Leadership Fund with Minister McKenna. This money will support energy efficiency retrofits, renewable energy, and carbon sequestration through forestry regeneration. He has also secured a $19.5 million investment in marine infrastructure improvements and almost $800,000 towards phase 2 of the transportation monitoring program to study the effects of climate change on permafrost and transportation infrastructure.

In the life of this government, he has also worked to secure a total of almost $13 billion in federal investment in economic development for the territory through the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency and programs like Growing Forward 2 and the strategic investments in northern economic development.

Minister Schumann, like each Member of Cabinet, has brought valuable strengths to the collective whole. He is a strong and decisive leader who makes the decisions in the best interests of this territory, based on strong principles. He takes his job seriously and works hard for our residents, Mr. Speaker, and Cabinet will be voting against this motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Masi. To the motion. I will allow the mover to make quick closing comments on the motion.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to all of the honourable Members of this House for weighing in with their thoughts on this and on what is by its very nature a divisive issue but a conversation that we must have from time to time.

I wanted to address some of the thoughts and comments that were made here and one that members of the public have also been talking about keep coming back to. It's this notion that now is not the right time for a Minister to be removed from the privilege of serving on the Executive Council because there is only one year left. Well, Mr. Speaker, the mid-term review people said, "We can't do it now. There's only two years left." When do we remove Ministers in a consensus government, after six months? What is the window? Because that is not in our protocols.

When there is a significant issue and a significant crisis of confidence in a Minister's performance, that's when the motion comes forward. Every Minister on that side has just spoken or, sorry, the Premier has spoken about the hard-working nature of his Cabinet. I can certainly stand up and speak to the hard-working nature of my colleagues over here. There are many files and pieces of legislation that we work on, that we tend to know more of the intricate details than the Minister sponsoring the bill or the Minister bringing forth the proposal because that is our job, to scrutinize and to hold to account. Anyone, anyone who is elected by their constituents, by voters, is capable of taking a seat on the other side of the House, so I reject the notion that there is a time-bound requirement and that elections are the only proper time to allow for a Minister's performance to be judged.

It's part of our system of government. It's part of responsible government, which is a founding principle of consensus, and it dismays me that the issue at play here, which is a clear, factual performance issue that the Members have talked to, and, more importantly, how it was handled. Still, I half expected an apology today or at least a recognition of contrition around how this has been handled, and still nothing. We have a guarantee that things are on track. Millions and billions of dollars the federal government has put in their budget are flowing into the Northwest Territories.

These are real issues that still remain unaddressed, and I hope that this motion is a wake-up call as my honourable friend from Hay River North said, that this is a wake-up call, that eventually this will hit the floor, and, even if these motions do not pass, they are taking time away from the rest of the business of the House because they need to be heard. They need to be brought forward so our constituents can have their concerns raised around accountability, and Ministers who continue to refuse to answer questions, to dismiss the concerns that are brought up time and time again as we sit in this House year after year, that this will be the inevitable consequence. Even if that motion does not fail, it must be heard. Accountability is demanded of us in our roles, and I still stand in support of this. Mr. Speaker, again I request a recorded vote so the record will show who else stands in support of this motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Member for Kam Lake, the Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh, the Member for Nahendeh, the Member for Frame Lake, the Member for Deh Cho, the Member for Hay River North.

All those opposed, please stand.

The Member for Yellowknife Centre, the Member for Nunakput, the Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, the Member for Range Lake, the Member for Great Slave, the Member for Yellowknife South, the Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, the Member for Hay River South, the Member for Thebacha, the Member for Mackenzie Delta, the Member for Sahtu, the Member for Yellowknife North.

Masi. All those abstaining, please stand. The results of the recorded vote: 6 in favour, 12 opposed, zero abstentions. The motion is defeated.

---Defeated

Motions. Member for Nahendeh.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS pursuant to Section 61.(1) of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, the Legislative Assembly recommends to the Commissioner the appointment of Members of the Executive Council;

AND WHEREAS pursuant to Section 61 .(2) of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, the persons appointed hold office during the pleasure of the Legislative Assembly;

AND WHEREAS the Assembly, pursuant to these powers, has chosen the honourable Member for Great Slave to sit as a Member of the Executive Council;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife North, that this Assembly formally revokes the pleasure of the Assembly from the appointment of the honourable Member for Great Slave as a Member of the Executive Council;

AND FURTHER, that this Assembly recommends that a Member be chosen to be a Member of the Executive Council. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Masi. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Nahendeh.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a serious matter before us today, and I do not approach it lightly. Since we became colleagues in the 18th Assembly, the Member for Great Slave has been responsive and supportive to me as an MLA. I have been able to work with him on concerns for my constituents at all hours of the day, and I greatly appreciate that as well as the good work that he has done for his own constituents. By its very nature, the Standing Committee on Social Development, which I chair, works very closely with the Member in his roles as the Minister of Health and Social Services. Last year, we even travelled together, exploring ways to improve addiction treatment in the NWT.

However, this is not about a personal relationship with the Member. The recent report from the office of the Auditor General, or the OAG, has revealed terrible truths about the treatment of children and young people who are under the care of the government. Even more troubling, these problems are not new. Where the Department of Health and Social Services should have been making strides since the OAG 2014 report, performance has instead largely worsened. It is clear that the status quo is not working.

Standing up to move this motion today is difficult, Mr. Speaker. It's not personal, but it's not something I enjoy, but something from the report really stuck with me. OAG wrote that, when Child and Family Services intervenes on a child's behalf, especially when a child is taken into care, the department "becomes in essence the parent." Think about that for a minute. This is an awesome responsibility. We need to do it justice.

This motion is not about what we are hearing from our residents. It's about the needs of our most vulnerable people, and it is about what's good for the territories. It's about accountability for this government's legal responsibilities. Mr. Speaker, the OAG findings were devastating. Being respectful of time, I will let just a handful speak for themselves.

A young person went missing; staff could not figure out who was responsible for finding them.

In 95 percent of the files reviewed, the children are Indigenous, meaning Indigenous children are disproportionately affected by performance failures.

Children were placed under permanent guardianship agreements without screening. One of these children was later assaulted and has been moved to another home, and again without screening. These findings are so serious that the auditors interrupted their work to notify the department.

A new tool was introduced to guide decision making on children in care, but the experts who designed it disagreed with one in every two decisions NWT staff made. Staff turnover and chronic understaffing have disrupted long-term planning and contribute to burnout, and the employees are doing their best.

An assistant director was appointed to improve accountability after the 2014 audit; they weren't trained, weren't adequately supervised, and in some cases, didn't even have access to the Child and Family Services information system.

In considering the motion before us today, what we have to confront is that the problem putting NWT children in care, at least at risk, are problems within the department itself. We know from the OAG reports that the department committed to make critical changes to Children and Family Services, and that these changes were not made. I have also heard from residents and from fellow Members that, despite major changes to the Child and Family Services Act, the legislation isn't what we need it to be, and it needs more work to properly suit northern communities.

All this says to me is that the chain of accountability is broken. Regular Members have repeatedly showed that they are interested in this work. The Standing Committee on Social Development has pursued performance issues in Child and Family Services for the past two years. Why weren't we made aware of the seriousness of these issues until the OAG issued its report?

Back in 2017 when the committee pushed for more information about internal auditing, we found that the department struggled with a broken audit tool. We were told that the data was unusable. New action plans and new systems followed, but we didn't see meaningful change. An annual report for Child and Family Services provided limited information.

Now, the most recent report calls for "further analysis to determine the issues that are leading to the lack of compliance." With respect, the Office of the Auditor General of Canada has already done that analysis. The time for analysis has long passed. What we need now is leadership, action, and the immediate dedication and resources; not further studies, and not more action plans. In fact, less talk, more action is exactly what committee recommended 21 months ago, and yet here we are today.

Another area of Health and Social Services' portfolio also comes into play. For example, the OAG reports that 80 percent of the reviewed files pointed to drugs and alcohol issues as the risk factor; and that domestic violence put children at risk in 50 percent of the files reviewed. This tells me that, to help NWT children in care, we need targeted support to deal with addictions and to reduce violence against women and children. Most of these files are that. Most of these files also fall under the Minister's stewardship.

This is my challenge. This is a source of Regular Members and residents' frustration. We are just not seeing meaningful progress on these incredible important files. I know that several of my colleagues have planned to speak on this motion, so I will wrap up my remarks by acknowledging that this is a complex and difficult file and a heavy responsibility for a Member to carry, but, Mr. Speaker, that simply highlights how serious this action is needed. That's what I want this motion to convey. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Masi. To the motion. Member for Yellowknife North.

Mr. Speaker, clearly, this is not a happy day nor a happy debate for anyone here. When you become an MLA, you never envision calling any of your fellow Members' conduct into question, much less your friend's conduct.

Yes, the Minister in question, I consider a friend, and I know he is a friend to all of us in this House. However, I believe that this is a very important motion, and we must engage in this debate with courage and conviction. Like others, I was deeply concerned to hear the Auditor General's report on Child and Family Services last week. I have heard from a number of constituents who are equally concerned. Some are very angry, Mr. Speaker. Sadly, the children and families who find themselves in the care of the Department of Health and Social Services are often the most defenseless and exposed people in our society.

Out of all of our citizens, it is these people who require and deserve the best service, care, and protection that our system can offer. Yet, the opposite has happened. The most vulnerable of us have fallen through the cracks, and the cracks themselves have grown wider and deeper. It's absolutely unacceptable for this to have happened, Mr. Speaker, and since it has, we have to now insist on the highest level of accountability from the Minister and his department, and that leads us to today's motion and debate.

I've said many times, Mr. Speaker, that I support building critical infrastructure for our territory. I will support measures to bolster our economy, create wealth, and allow our communities to grow, but I will not ever, Mr. Speaker, invest in bricks and mortar over investment in our people. Now, it's clear that our people have fallen by the wayside.

Many people have been referring to the 2014 Audit of Child and Family Services which found many of the same problems that still exist, but I'd like to go back further, Mr. Speaker. The responsibility for heath was devolved to the GNWT from 1982 to 1988. Like many things that came to us from the federal government, the devolved healthcare system was a product of old colonial times. The act has been amended more than a dozen times since, but those changes, obviously, haven't brought our system into the 21st century.

Today's debate convinces me of that. Surely, the laws on our books should reflect the Indigenous character of our population and reflect the conclusions of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, but that has never happened. Instead, most of what we've heard from the Minister, for years, has been about the new Regional Wellness Board, the super board with its super powers that's going to fix all the problems, Mr. Speaker, but org charts and job descriptions don't mean much to kids in trouble. So we fail to overhaul antiquated laws, to recognize our Indigenous state. We have failed to take seriously the need to move toward reconciliation and self-determination. The fact is, this government's laws don't recognize the social and cultural reality of our citizens. What was needed was less time with org charts, and more time with real children and real families.

Mr. Speaker, for additional context on where I am coming from, when the community of Deline was negotiating its self-government agreement, the GNWT wanted to devolve our existing childcare system to the community. Here's our system. Do it this way, and over time, we will grant you full authority to manage it on your own. Essentially, Deline said, "No way. We don't care for our children that way. We won't swoop in and pluck a child away from here. We look after our children as a community." Surely, that should have been a lesson for this government.

After the grim results of the Child and Family Services audit in 2014, we were told by this Minister that heads were going to roll, that the highest level of accountability would be executed, but obviously no heads have rolled and no accountability was taken because four years later, circumstances have not changed. Actually, I stand corrected, Mr. Speaker. They have changed for the worse.

Now, in 2018, the Auditor General says that all the responsibility for making changes was offloaded onto social workers without resources to solve the problem. There were no new social workers, no funding for more social workers, and no new training to implement new processes. Mr. Speaker, that's a complete and utter failure. Instead, the top priority of our Ministers when they started this term was to cut $150 million in spending. No matter what it takes, we must get our fiscal house in order, was the repeated message to the public. No wonder we have lost sight of human needs out there, Mr. Speaker.

If our government machine is so big and expansive, if our laws are out of date, if we're focused on cutting spending while people and families are suffering, then it's time for a fundamental shift. Accountability has been the catch phrase of the whole 18th Assembly, yet it seems there is little interest in it. Maybe it's not surprising that, three years later, things haven't gotten better. In fact, Mr. Speaker, I hope the Minister responsible for accountability and transparency will actually analyze this situation as a case study and help the government learn lessons from this unacceptable failure.

Now, we're speaking to a motion to revoke a Minister's appointment because he has lost the confidence of the Members of the House. Just introducing such a motion is a serious step and one that Members on this side of the House do not take lightly. Like many things we do in this Chamber, removing the Minister probably won't have much direct impact on vulnerable children and families who need our help.

Mr. Speaker, it saddens me to say, but as we speak, children are at serious risk.

This motion to remove the Minister is about accountability. The Minister has accepted the Auditor General's report, but in my view, not the responsibility that goes with it. Without taking responsibility, there's no accountability, and there is too little will to really the help the children in this government's care.

Again, it is a sad state of affairs. Mr. Speaker, Regular Members have resorted to a revocation motion today because all other efforts have failed to bring about desperately needed change. We have tried working with the Minister to make sure the Auditor General's past recommendations were followed. Standing committee have had meetings after meetings on strategies, and frameworks, and business plans, and Members have raised these issues time and time again.

We are taking this action today because we will not accept putting children's lives at risk due to the negligence of this government. The Minister needs to hear this message loud and clear, and so does the public.

Perhaps the voices of the people added to our Regular Members will light the fire of change to protect children in our government's care. Whether or not our vote allows the Minister to keep his job, he must take full responsibility for his department's wrongdoing and inaction, not to us in this House or to his colleagues in Cabinet; he must make a public apology to the children, families, and foster families who are struggling through a broken system, and not allow it to break down even further under his watch. He must also make the department accountable, not in the government boardrooms, but in the classrooms, kitchens, and living rooms, where people actually live their lives.

As the recent audit makes clear, the children, the most innocent, vulnerable, and precious among us, will remain at risk until the promised changes are made. That must be the Minister's next job, or the next Minister's job. He or she must not rest until it's done.

Mr. Speaker, my comments and position today are on behalf of those whose voices have not been heard. I will be voting in support of the motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Masi. To the motion, Member for Sahtu.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My earlier presentation or statement is relatively the same. I have experienced the improvements of social services in my riding. I've engaged in phone calls to the department after hours, on weekends, to remedy situations of critical concern to the family. They were always answered, and in all of the cases, a resolution in favour of my request was always there. It was comforting to know the system, although it may need improvements like anything else, was there to support me.

An example of child welfare would be an example I've seen in one of the communities that I represent. In the remote, smaller communities, lots of challenges, lots of problems, disturbing family, social services removed the children from that unstable environment but kept the children in the cultural environment of their community; not like residential school, which took them out of the community. They remained in their community to see and hear the traditions of family, uncles, and supporting ones.

I will make my presentation short. As I mentioned in the previous motion, I did consult on both motions with our leadership from the Sahtu, and I feel comfortable in saying, Mr. Speaker, in this position, I've seen unbelievable socially related, disturbing issues, both here in the medical centre and at the home community medical centre. Things that I didn't believe existed, but in this public life, we serve everybody in the community, despite the fact that they voted for you or against you. I've learned to accept representing everybody, even though we encounter previous difficulties in situations of differences. In short, I work with all my colleagues on both sides of the House, but I work for the residents of the Sahtu. All of Cabinet, both Ministers in question, have done nothing wrong, but rather good for the people that I serve.

In consultation and collaboration with leadership, we have many challenges out there. We have such a short time remaining, as previous speakers have mentioned. I don't feel like going down that road. I want to face the solutions knowing the fact that we've got trust and a working relationship to put our heads and departments together to resolve those problems, problems that I've seen. As I mentioned earlier, I don't want to go there and expose what is actually happening, things that we, I think, in most cases, have seen in representing small communities.

I represent five communities, all uniquely diverse with positive and negative things which come with a community of remoteness and isolation.

I'm sorry that I didn't mention this to the earlier motion, but I thank the Minister from Hay River South for all the contributions and how he has supported our community and our region of the Sahtu. Again, I thank that Minister.

I can't support this motion for the reasons being, as I mentioned, we have to move ahead, collaboratively, jointly, building relations, facing those challenges head on. We have limitations, we have physical limitations operating in a high area that creates extra burden to the judgment that we need to solve those resolutions. It can be said in the old saying, 'Together we rise, alone we fall.' Masi.

Masi. To the motion, Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I stand in support of this motion because I believe the Department of Health and Social Services has made mistakes, mistakes that have adversely affected all NWT residents and have cost this government dearly. The GNWT's credibility as the guardian of children has been severely questioned by our citizens, and public confidence in the administration of these programs and services is practically non-existent.

Fortunately, the first steps to remedying this mistake are easy. It is the steps we take after this motion that will be more challenging.

In our system of consensus government, it is not the department that is accountable for these mistakes; it is the Minister who stands responsible for the performance of the departments under his portfolio. This failure of the government to provide adequate protection to the children in its care is so serious and has been known for so long that someone must be held accountable for this. In our system of government, that person is the Minister responsible.

The subjects of the Auditor General's report are children, children under the care of the government. These children are already living in high-risk situations, which is why they are under care to begin with. Let me be clear, Mr. Speaker, yes, this motion is about holding the Minister responsible, but we must not lose sight of those who are directly affected. They are living, breathing children, and family members. They are the ones who are affected the most, not the Minister in question, not me, not any other Member of this House or public official in the Northwest Territories. This is about children. We must not forget that, as this motion arises from the mismanagement of the care of our children.

Our job as elected Members is to do more than ask questions and make statements. Our job is to take action to ensure that those with power in our society are held to account for their actions and the performance of the exercise of that power.

Moving forward, I want to remind Members of this House, as well as the public at large, that the last time a vote of non-confidence was successful in this legislature, it came because a Cabinet Minister made several disrespectful comments and followed them up with a threatening hand gesture. I worry that some Members might forget that those most affected by the inaction of a Minister, especially in the matter that we are speaking of right now, are not Members of this House and do not have the same privileges we do to hold a Minister to account, and youth at risks ought to have someone speaking up for them to address this systemic and long-standing crisis.

The questions and observations I encourage all Members to reflect upon as I go through the remainder of my statement are as follows: who is the Minister ultimately accountable to? This Assembly, the public, Cabinet, the Premier? Does or should the timing of the next election have any real bearing on the House's duty to hold the Minister to account? Should elections be the only time Members are truly held accountable? Has the Minister accepted that the buck stops with him? If not, who? In what circumstances does the buck stop getting passed around? Good intentions, Mr. Speaker, do not provide these children with any solace, nor does it work to make them safe or work to help ensure they are healthy and that their families are able to break the cycle borne out of some of the most; a reflection of the most terrible policies of colonization, residential schools.

I am disheartened at the state of our democracy if the best defense for the Minister responsible for this alarming failure of government is that he is a hard worker and he means well. Well, that sort of "better the devil you know" mentality is at the core of what is eroding responsible government.

Mr. Speaker, Cabinet has the right to design and implement policies, programs, and regulations. They aren't required to request the House's approval to do so, and aren't even required to share that with the Members of this side of the House if they don't wish to. Fortunately, most programs, policies, and regulation changes won't adversely affect residents of the NWT. Bringing them into the legislature approval debate isn't always going to be necessary. In fact, it could be considered a waste of time in many situations, Mr. Speaker. In this case, this is not one of those situations.

Yes, from time to time, these types of failures of management can be significant. It has major ramifications for the GNWT and the NWT as a whole. I believe that the moments of failures of management currently in question fall into this crisis category.

When assessing or reassessing policies, programs, and regulations that will have consequences for our people, Ministers ought to be expected to demonstrate a standard of care, which involves actively engaging Regular Members and other stakeholders who may be affected by this new information. It does not mean that the Minister should sit on the results of an internal audit for a period of months before they are brought forward for consideration by the rest of the House.

Mr. Speaker, the first time the Standing Committee on Social Development, which reviewed this file, was made aware of it was by press release shortly after the Auditor General's report came out. The severity of the situation was well-known internally to government and kept from those who are actively working together to make consensus government work on behalf of the residents of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, for the government to meet its fiduciary obligations on behalf of Indigenous people to serve the interest of Dene, Inuvialuit, and Metis, as well as other peoples and residents of the Northwest Territories, a significant amount of information and facts are required in order for Regular Members to make responsible and informed decisions. The accessibility of information is required to plan and ensure that past mistakes are not repeated, perpetuated, shrugged off, or swept under the rug.

Unfortunately, it's clear that, in this case, the government felt more comfortable taking the easy route out, hoping that, as tradition and as status quo, this matter would be forgotten in a few weeks and all would be well, given enough time until the next election.

Does the committee and the Members of this House understand the ramifications of maintaining the status quo in a culture of inaction towards ministerial accountability? Do we fully comprehend the consequences and costs as we continue to fail to protect the health and safety of children in the GNWT's care?

Many Members of this Assembly, including myself, are fully aware of the uphill battle we engage in all too frequently with select Ministers, having to continually ask for open dialogue and forthcoming information on files with such potentially sweeping and long-term consequences.

I ask: does the Minister in question believe the children in his department's care are well-served by the laissez-faire attitude which has plagued this file from Assembly to Assembly? How much will it cost the NWT when these children become adults? To them and to their communities, to the GNWT, and to all people of the Northwest Territories?

Does the Minister comprehend the scale of this repetition of failures and the echoes of a dark chapter of our shared history? The terror and neglect faced by Indigenous people to the policies of colonization in residential schools? In fact, we have another Minister who won't accept personal responsibilities or even apologize to the people of the Northwest Territories for these systemic and unacceptable issues that have occurred under his mandate. I don't believe the plans were actioned with the care and attention they needed and deserved.

How can we as Members and how can members of the public feel confident that this government has demonstrated a reasonable standard of care or due diligence if the Minister can't answer these types of important questions when they are put to him before the House? Or at least return with a complete and uncensored information to the House in a timely fashion and to the Members of this House, who are working on behalf of their constituents?

Mr. Speaker, here is what should have happened. It's clear this government needs to do something to help the children in its care. It's clear this is not an easy file with a simple solution. It's clear these problems continue to reoccur. It's clear that the Minister should have consulted with all Members of the House and given a thorough and complete report on the matter. A secret, unrecorded meeting would have been better than a press release. Again, I ask how this public institution, this democratic institution, can properly function if those outside Cabinet are kept in the dark?

The department has researched this issue. The Office of the Auditor General has audited this issue twice, Mr. Speaker. The Child Welfare League of Canada in the year 2000 recommended the department develop a caseload study, which is still incomplete. Again, in 2014, the same Child Welfare League was commissioned to do a workload management study to help identify what resources were required to deliver Child and Family Services. The Minister has had five years to act on these recommendations, but now they have a plan.

Mr. Speaker, too little too late. If the information had been shared openly with MLAs and affected children actually contacted and effectively followed up by the GNWT, then this Assembly might have been willing to find innovative solutions to this perpetual cycle of abuse and the failure to our minors. The Standing Committee on Social Development could have followed the footsteps of its predecessor committee from the 16th Assembly and reviewed Child and Family Services to work with the Minister on bringing meaningful solutions to these persistent failures to protect children in the government's care. Instead, the department compromised the best interests of children under its care due to limited resources, outdated legislation, and poorly implemented management tools.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister must be responsible, for there is no one else who can be. Rest assured that the credibility of this government in the eyes of the public are fed up when they hear another instance where government-sanctioned institutions failed to meet the basic rights of Indigenous children. The Minister did not prepare a comprehensive brief and consultation with Regular Members, neither when the department conducted its internal audit from five years ago, nor in 2018 with the most recent OAG audit has been made public.

The failure of this case, the failure of Health and Safety deserves to be shamed, and that is without question.

Mr. Speaker, it's clear from the impassionate and emotional responses from a member of the public that this is not a situation that can be seen as a mere complicated situation that requires complex solutions and limited resources. There needs to be more done, especially considering the nature of this issue coming forward again under the same Minister's watch, a Minister who is widely seen as very hard working, as very confident in his portfolios and has personal and intimate knowledge of this file.

That is what brings us here today. There is outrage from the citizens in the Northwest Territories that these problems persist and there seems to be no way forward. In fact, things are worse today. We must take action to hold the government to account so the message is set clear to the entire system of the GNWT that, when failures of this magnitude continue to go unchecked, there are political consequences to the people at the top. That should encourage everyone, every one of us, to work diligently to ensure that they never happen again, that they are not swept under the rug, and a culture of silence does not persist around those who are most vulnerable in the government's care. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Masi. To the motion. Member for Frame Lake.

Merci, Monsieur le President. As I said earlier, I have tried to choose my words very carefully. I take the issue of removal of a Cabinet Minister very seriously.

While I personally like the Minister and often agree with him, this motion is about leadership and priorities. I have no doubt that this Minister works very, very hard in managing one of the largest and most important departments. The Minister has led some very important initiatives, and I give him full credit for the accomplishments that he will no doubt raise. I also find the Minister to be very receptive and responsive to the numerous constituent issues I have raised with him.

When all of us were fresh and new, we outlined our priorities. My three were reducing the cost of living; getting our resource management house in order, which is largely what I talked about in my last statement on the previous motion; and healthy communities, with a focus on children and housing. I want to stress my stated priority on children.

I sat in on the briefing done by the Office of the Auditor General on Child and Family Services last week. I was expecting to hear that we had made some progress, even if it was minor, on improving these areas. Mr. Speaker, I have sat through a lot of briefings over the last three years, but to say this one was disturbing would be an understatement. I am not going to repeat the audit findings here, but I just don't accept that we could have failed our children and families so badly. How could things possibly get worse in four years, under the same high-energy Minister?

While I have heard some explanations from the Minister, and he has plans now in place for improvements, what I haven't heard, and what some of my constituents haven't heard, is some ownership and responsibility, and perhaps most importantly, an apology. We have collectively failed the most vulnerable people in our society, and for that, I am truly sorry. I am also willing to learn and to take action.

I have thought long and hard about how and why we have ended up in this situation and what needs to be done if the ultimate objective is to improve our services and supports for children and families. We don't want to lose any more of our staff who work in these difficult and challenging services. They, too, need and deserve our support.

I accept that the Minister has said that the right plans, systems, and resources are in place or about to be put in place to allow us to start to head in the right direction. If so, then the question is whether a change in Ministers would make any difference. I have no doubts about the passion of the current Minister on Child and Family Services and the other challenges within his department, but the path for improvement seems to be set in motion no matter who is at the helm.

I don't blame the Minister for where we got with Child and Family Services. This motion is not about blame, but leadership and priorities. I believe that more resources, energy, and focus can and should have been devoted to Child and Family Services. For example, supplementary appropriations to carry out the much-needed overall needs assessment or more staff and training. I have no doubt and have seen that this Minister is not shy and has the ability to extract funds from the Financial Management Board with good business cases. However, I don't understand why this wasn't done sooner with Child and Family Services.

In my view, this all boils down to the priorities of Cabinet as a whole. I have openly disagreed with Cabinet's priorities from the very beginning of this Assembly. Clearly, the focus of Cabinet has been on its fiscal strategy above all else, at the expense of the needs of our residents, including our children and families most in need. The focus on managing expenses, cutting programs and services to fund infrastructure, large projects, departmental amalgamations, and a looming labour dispute with an unfair wage offer have created a distraction from the real and immediate needs of our residents. This difference in priorities has sapped enormous amounts of our time and energy in this Assembly. It has created a huge gulf between Regular MLAs and Cabinet and strained consensus government to the breaking point.

As I support this motion, it is not about the performance of the Minister. He is good and perhaps our best Minister. My vote is about leadership and priorities. Leadership is about taking responsibility, and that includes making apologies. I have raised the issue of priorities, and in my view, Cabinet's priorities are not my priorities and have not brought the attention or focus that we need on Child and Family Services, economic diversification, housing, climate change, and the other pressing needs of our residents. I believe that our best chance at resetting Cabinet's priorities, and that includes greater attention and focus on improving Child and Family Services, is by supporting this motion. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Masi. To the motion. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Marsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I truly understand the difficulties of Child and Family Services. I have been involved with the Minister on this file for a long, long time. The Minister and I have travelled together on the Standing Committee on Social Programs. In 2009, we developed a report that I think set the pattern for what should be done for Child and Family Services, and I also understand how difficult it would be to carry out those responsibilities.

My issue is the fact that that Member is not listening to the Members on this side. When I say that, I say that for a reason. I am from a small community. I think everybody knows that in here because I talk about that almost every day. I represent small communities, although I live in Yellowknife. I also represent the two communities that are here in Yellowknife, the two Indigenous communities, and I often speak about things that maybe people over there are not really understanding why I am talking about them.

I often speak about homecare and how I am asking this Minister to put a lot of money into homecare. For what reason? To keep elders in their homes. Why? So that elders in the communities can help the families. They are seen as important members of families, Aboriginal families, Indigenous families. I talk about homecare. There is no connection made. We will put money in. Some money goes in. Meanwhile, we are still building these huge long-term care facilities that are going to warehouse our elders. I want to keep them at home so that they can help the families.

Sometimes in our Indigenous communities, the only income in the whole family, and people from small communities know that, is the pension, and they take that away. The elder goes into long-term care. It makes that family basically reliant on income support. It is very difficult to raise children on income support, very difficult to provide the necessities on income support. We need family units in our communities.

I talk about alcohol. I talk about alcohol a lot here and how we need to put programs in place in small communities to stop alcoholism. Alcohol is destroying our communities, and the people who feel that the most, Mr. Speaker, are the ones who can't do anything about it, because they are just little kids. They can't do anything about that. Who can do something about that are the adults, and who can work on that is this department. We need to work on that so that we could help the children, so that we don't get this kind of report again. I recognize that some of the stuff that this Minister is trying to do is positive, is exactly what the small communities want, but they can't have it, because of alcohol. What we need to do is we need to prevent. We need to work on prevention.

We just heard a report a couple of months ago about how our hospital here has hospitalization of people because of alcoholism at six times the national average. It is no wonder that things are getting worse in the communities, and children are worse off. It is because we are not working with the people to prevent some of these things from happening. If we could keep the family together, and we could prevent the families from going deep into alcohol, if we could hire the people, if we could have homecare workers in the small communities, working with the adults, keeping the elders in the community and having jobs and providing for their families, then we are not going to have to collect the kids and send them to a home.

When I speak, I am speaking almost as an expert, because I represent Aboriginal communities. That is what I do. My communities are 95 percent Aboriginal; Indigenous, if we use that term. Those are the people who have their children in care. Our people have children in care. It is not people who have high incomes. It is not people who sit there in big homes. They are the ones who have the kids stay with them. They are the ones who are available.

We have talked. I know that the Minister's desire was to have the families stay in their own communities with their own families. The actions to make that happen were not there. I don't know. I feel like not making the connection. What I am asking for all the time in the House are jobs, homecare spending, early childhood development, alcohol treatment, alcohol work, trying to follow a plan. We developed a plan called Healing Voices where a committee of people travelled all over the Northwest Territories and talked to people. They asked the people, "How do we resolve this issue?” and they came up with 70-some-odd recommendations and presented to this department.

I don't think things have improved. If we believe the reports, I think things have gotten worse. I see that there is a little more work in the communities, but we need to have a lot of work in the communities. We need to be able to put people to work so they can take care of their own kids. I often use the term "All boats shall rise." That is because when you have pumped money into small communities, it will have a positive impact on the regions, which will have a positive impact on our capital city.

"All boats shall rise" basically means that everybody is going to benefit from it, and the people who can't defend themselves, cannot help themselves, will get help because they will have adults who love them, who are going to be there for them, and they are the ones who are going to be resolving this issue. It is going to take the people to resolve the issue and listening to the people and having individuals like the government, this Minister to listen to people go into the communities and help families stay together so that we don't have this.

These are horrible numbers. We hear that there are more children in foster care now in Canada than there were children in residential school at the height of residential school. Residential school destroyed a society of people right across this whole country. We are bringing people in.

I have asked the Minister before. I said, "Let's check the incomes of the people on foster care. Let's find out. Are they in poverty? Are they too poor to have kids? Is that what it is? Is that why everybody is in care?" I think it is. Let's check the people who are in institutions. Let's check the correction facilities to find out if they are former foster kids. I think they are.

Nothing is going to change. This next group is coming in. The next group is going to be the same way. Kids who get taken away from their homes, get taken away from their families think they are not loved. Once somebody feels that they are not loved, then they don't care about society and they become institutionalized. That is where we are headed. That is what we are trying to prevent.

We are doing this as a drastic action. Mr. Abernethy is a wonderful person and a good Minister. This is drastic action because it requires drastic measures. This is a drastic measure because we are in drastic times with our children. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Masi. To the motion. Member for Hay River North.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pretty even keeled, and I don't make decisions based on emotion. The visceral reaction that I have to the willful neglect and disgraceful mismanagement of a system that was meant to protect vulnerable children means I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I didn't support this motion. Shame on those who don't. I don't know how they'll sleep at night. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Masi. To the motion. Member for Deh Cho.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of this motion. I will keep my statement very brief. The Health and Social Services Department, Child and Family Services, was audited in 2014 by the Auditor General of Canada and then again this month in 2018.

Mr. Speaker, what the 2018 Report on Child and Family Services stated is very clear. Changes or improvements were not made in the protection and care of children since the last report. The Minister of Health and Social Services and his department failed to address the fundamental issues of addressing the need for changes.

Mr. Speaker, if a family member's child or even my child was removed from me and taken to a strange home, bounced around here and there, was further traumatized and hurt again rather than protecting and nurturing that child, then I have to speak. Therefore, I support the motion of revocation of the Minister of Health and Social Services. Mahsi.

Masi. To the motion. Member for Mackenzie Delta.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, to the motion, I cannot support this motion. Yes, our first reaction is to get rid of the Minister. Mr. Speaker, moving forward, it seems like every time -- you know, I have dealt with the Minister many times. He has helped in a lot of situations with my constituents. We are in a crisis, Mr. Speaker. We can't blame solely the department. You know, it is very challenging. Many people here don't understand it because they don't come from a small community.

Mr. Speaker, in our small communities, we lack capacity. Even for taking over children, whether it is our own family, a lot of people aren't in that situation to take on more children. Not only that, they have to pass a criminal records check.

Mr. Speaker, it has been brought up in our committee that that is what we are struggling with. We have a lack of foster parents in our communities. You know, we can't force people to do that. We have to encourage them. We have to give them the resources. We can't force them, Mr. Speaker.

I think the Minister gets the idea that we have to put more focus on this. I know there has been a big turnover in his department. I think that they now have the resources to see this through.

Mr. Speaker, I know it is very challenging with this department that is so huge. It is the biggest department we have in this government. Maybe one thing we need to look at is whether we divide these two departments, have one department of health and one as social services. They have been amalgamated since 1995. Maybe we have to ask ourselves the question: is it working for our territory, for our children? We haven't looked at that.

Mr. Speaker, as we move forward, you know, there are many changes that we have to do in this department. I know the department has been struggling since we began our 18th Assembly with the recruitment of more doctors and nurses in our territory, which they have done.

It is pretty clear that we need to focus on our children. There is a lack of social workers. I believe strongly that what we need to do is bring back our social work program with Aurora College. It is pretty clear we don't have the capacity in this field right now, and we need more because I have seen in my riding, you know, the stress that our social workers face.

You know, many people may think that they enjoy taking children away from families, but to the fact, it is in the best interest of the child. We hear clearly in our committee that it is tough, but like I said, we need to encourage more families in our communities to be foster parents. We all want our children to stay within our communities. Mr. Speaker, I believe that, throughout the rest of our term, that is something that we need to work towards. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I won't be supporting this motion.

Masi. To the motion. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when the Auditor General's report on Child and Family Services arrived last week, it ignited a fire that had been smouldering for years. With an average of a thousand, one thousand, children in care at any given time over the last 10 years, almost everyone in the NWT has a connection to the child welfare system, and that includes me. All of them have an opinion of how well it is working or, as the Auditor General told us last week, not working. I welcome the conversations that this report has forced us to have.

Mr. Speaker, it is always worth repeating that the Auditor General reports on whether a department is following its own legislation. It is not a report card; it is not a job evaluation. It is an assessment not of what is going right, but what is going wrong.

Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General concluded that there is a lot going wrong. As I said last week, Child and Family Services is failing children in care; not just failing them, but sometimes putting them at risk of even greater harm than the circumstances that brought them into care in the first place. Investigations into reports of children in unsafe situations are behind. Mandatory interviews with children and parents aren't happening. Homes for children are not screened. Children whose parents are unable to care for them are the most vulnerable people in our society, and too many times they are not getting the care that they need. For me, these findings are profoundly upsetting.

Mr. Speaker, the audit results came as a shock to me, but the Minister said that they weren't a shock to him. He said that they confirmed internal audit results that he received in May. These results were not shared with the Standing Committee on Social Development. Why not? The committee has been briefed by the Minister about previous audit results. We didn't ask, and he didn't tell. This is a serious oversight.

Once the Auditor General's report came out, the Minister didn't take responsibility for the findings or apologize, as he should have done, but rather, he said that his department has already started taking action to fix the issues identified by both audits. The details are sketchy, but two points stand out for me. The first is that asking social workers to do more paperwork by involving them in more reporting to the department is not what I want to see or what the Auditor General suggests. The Auditor found that social workers are already burdened by paperwork and reporting. More of the same will further diminish the limited time available to work with clients. The Auditor General made it clear that social workers need more time to work with children and their families, not less.

A second point that stands out for me is an issue that has been identified as a problem as far back as the year 2000. It was repeated by the standing committee reviewing the Child and Family Services Act in 2010 and repeated again by the Auditor General in 2014. The Department of Health and Social Services must perform a detailed assessment of the financial and human resources to deliver the Child and Family Services mandated by the act.

The Minister, the very same Health and Social Services Minister, said the department would contract the Child Welfare League of Canada to conduct a workload study as the first step in assessing the human resource requirements of Child and Family Services. The report was supposed to be delivered in March 2015. I don't know whether the report was completed or what it said, but the Auditor General has again recommended that the Minister assess the financial and human resources to deliver Child and Family Services.

As I said in my statement last week, until this work is done, we won't know why the Tlicho Community Services Agency has half as many child protection workers as Yellowknife when the size of their caseload is similar.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister has said that he is going to step up the recruitment and retention of social workers, hire more workers in anticipation of the approval of the next operations and maintenance budget, double fill staff positions, and create eligibility lists. Presumably, this could have been started, and announced, when he received the undisclosed report back in May. All of this hiring and budgeting is great news, but where is the caseload study or research that shows how many positions are needed and how they should be focused? More importantly, why has it taken so long to get to this point?

Further on this point, where are the social workers going to come from? There are graduates of the Aurora College Social Work Diploma Program working in NWT communities now. More are needed, along with social workers who have degrees. The Minister has said little to nothing in support of retaining the Social Work Program and expanding it into a degree program. That must change. Replacing northern social workers with southern social workers is not likely to be helpful or result in better retention.

I have a sinking feeling that the answer has to do with this government's wrong-headed approach to budgeting, making cuts in the first two years of this assembly to fatten the surplus and thus increase the budget for building roads. The fact that needs of children and families have played second fiddle to constructing a road to a gravel pit galls me. I don't know how hard the Minister worked to change this focus, but the fact that he didn't win is now a ball and chain around his ankle, and a major reason that we are having this debate today. All of Cabinet must stand indicted in this motion.

Mr. Speaker, in spite of being short-changed of resources in this Assembly, the Minister and his staff have made headway on the goals set out in the Building Stronger Families action plan. Legislation has been amended to eliminate the gap in services for youth who are 16 to 19 years old. The new structured decision-making tool has been introduced and provides guidance on issues that relate to child abuse versus those that stem from neglect. The old information management system has been replaced. An effective tool is now in place for annual compliance audits.

Mr. Speaker, these are significant changes, and they needed to happen, but they have required social workers to spend extra time training, and even more training is needed, according to the Auditor General. As a friend of mine said recently, "There is no amount of training that will help if you are overwhelmed." The remedy is more staff and smaller caseloads so that people are less likely to quit and can function more effectively.

In the rapidly changing and high stress environment of social work, and child protection in particular, there are times that social workers haven't had enough time to meet all of their clients' needs, or at least that is how I understand the Auditor General's findings. I have no doubt that they are as distressed by this situation as I am. Some people may say the Minister hasn't done enough, while others say that he has done too much in too short a time. As another friend of mine said, "The action plan has fixed the system, but it has not fixed the kids."

Mr. Speaker, I want to turn now to the big picture. The Child and Family Services Act represents an institutional, western perspective on caring for children when their parents are unable to do so. It represents a nuclear family, middle class ideal, where enforcing standards, limiting liability, and avoiding risk are fundamental principles. It does not adequately account for the population it serves, most often Indigenous children and families with large extended families, who are rooted in small communities with a strong sense of culture and identity.

Mr. Speaker, in her 2010 report on the NWT, child advocate Cindy Blackstock found that the overrepresentation of children in care is "fuelled by neglect, which, in turn, is driven by poverty, poor housing, and substance misuse, as well as domestic violence. Abuse reports do not account for the dramatic overrepresentation of Aboriginal children in care in the NWT."

The Minister and his staff have tried to address this resourcing disparity with tools that support families to care for children within their homes. This is a tangible response to the neglect Ms. Blackstock addressed in her report, but we as a society have a long way to go before low incomes, overcrowded housing, and food insecurity aren't the background of most child protection issues.

Even better than these tools would be to create a preventative or proactive response to families that are struggling. Create an integrated case management approach to family well-being where community-based social workers join teachers, elders, and families in figuring out how to help them before their needs bring them to the attention of authorities.

The enormity of kids in care is the result of wrong-headed priorities. What Cabinet doesn't get, or doesn't care about, and what this Minister has apparently been unable to budge them on, is the need for resources to ease our social pain, as the precursor to successful engagement in the economy.

Mr. Speaker, there is no question that the priority needs to be keeping families together in their own communities if at all possible. Separating families, sending children to other homes and other communities isolates them, and diminishes their sense of culture and identity. The goal here is to prevent the child welfare system from inflicting the same harm that the residential schools did.

Senator Murray Sinclair, the chairman of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, told a conference last week that if the child welfare system existed in its current form, he would have been apprehended and cut off from his extended family and community. His grandparents' house didn't have running water or electricity, and both food and wood were sometimes in short supply. He looks back with gratitude for his grandparents' love despite the compromises on physical comfort they had to make. When I read his remarks, I thought about how few foster homes there are in some communities. Would they even pass a standard screening? Sometimes the department's approaches to help don't fit clients' needs, and this is a systemic rather than human resources failure.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Minister of Health and Social Services talked about the new buzzword in health, cultural safety. While I don't care for the term, it is an important concept. Government has acknowledged that, as a result of colonization, residential schools, and cultural bias, the health system hasn't been a place of healing for Indigenous people. The Minister said, "Our commitment to cultural safety recognizes that Indigenous clients should not have to adapt to our system, but rather, it is the responsibility of the system to change and transform to meet the needs of clients." This system transformation needs to take place within Child and Family Services as well, and for the very same reasons.

Mr. Speaker, a lot of what I have been talking about here today goes to general issues, spanning ministries and showing the deprivation of budget resources that are instead being spent on roads and other infrastructure. These are not to be parked with one minister. I think the Minister of Health and Social Services understands the challenges that I have outlined. I think he has made a start on making necessary changes. I don't see any benefit to removing him at this point in our mandate. With the year remaining, I want him to make good on his promise to analyze caseloads and staff offices appropriately. I want him to focus on outcomes for children rather than inputs for management, and I want to see him create a two-year action plan to address the Auditor General's recommendations. I believe he is capable of doing this work, and so I will be voting against the motion to remove him from Cabinet. Mahsi.

Masi. To the motion. Member for Nunakput.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, like my colleagues, there is frustration from the southern part of the territory, right to the northern part of the territory, and as well, Mr. Speaker, probably, between the Northwest Territories and the Government of Canada as well, too, when it comes to taking children and care out of the territory. Like Jordan's Principle, we have a federal government and we have the territorial government, but whatever government it may be, it might be a self-government, I'm fighting over who is going to pay the bill for the children while those children suffer and struggle in hospitals and in care around the country.

Mr. Speaker, that is something that we need to work on with the federal government. That is something within the territory that we don't have that much control over, but the Minister and his staff and the department have control over maybe working out with the federal government. The Premier has that power as well, too.

Mr. Speaker, Jordan's Principle is something that affects all of us, being in a territory where the majority of the people are Indigenous people, eight different languages and so forth. It is loud and clear that our needs for ourselves, our children, and the rate of suicides, and the rate of homicides in the territory are rising. I think we need to take a look as to why these are all happening, and how can we work that out to help the cause so that our people live a better quality of life. Mr. Speaker, we are missing all of those pieces in this big system we call the Health and Social Services.

Like some of my colleagues, I believe the system is too massive for one Minister to take on alone. I think, as earlier mentioned, some Ministers take on too much of a workload that they cannot focus, and one of my colleagues mentioned that some Regular MLAs know more about some of the policies than actual the Ministers do in their departments. We are willing to change that. That's true, Mr. Speaker. I get answers from Ministers, "Oh, my god. Geez, I could have asked myself that last week and come up with a better answer." I'm not pointing fingers. I'm just saying that in the reality, in the workplace that we work right here, it's true. Some of us are charged with looking at things that we are passionate about. We don't know everything, but the things that we are passionate about, we can take on and make a difference that way. I think that's how we need to kind of focus and realign our strengths as we move forward.

Mr. Speaker, we need to unify and demand a systemic change internally within the Legislative Assembly, because right now it is not working. It might be working for the departments. It might be working for departmental staff, but it's not serving the people of the Northwest Territories, and those are the children in care that we are talking about right now, Mr. Speaker. There is too much red tape in management and the policies. I remember hearing that some time ago when issues came up, there were more policies put in place, and that is just more jargon and more hoops for people who need to jump through. In a sense, it affects the government's bottom line because, at the end of the day, they're not spending as much but they're keeping up with what they can. For me, that's a lack of capacity, Mr. Speaker.

If we struggle from a lack of capacity, we need to find it elsewhere. We need to ensure that we give the Minister and the Premier and our staff and ourselves the right tools to do that, and I think we're not doing that right now. We might be on our way to doing it but, Mr. Speaker, I think we have a long way to go. It's definitely going to pass this Assembly, like we pass the next Assembly until we get a handle on things, but we need to start moving faster. Every day, I believe I heard that every day or 24 hours, there's $1.3 million spent on help in the Northwest Territories, and we look at our population, Mr. Speaker: is that enough, or do we need to increase that? Or do we need to aim our dollars better to ensure that it's going to the right people? Right now, we're caught up on salaries, and the system, I believe, and I've said this in the past, it's more suited to work around the healthcare professionals rather than the people who actually need the healthcare at times. Mr. Speaker, I encourage that within this arena right here.

Mr. Speaker, I come from an organization in the Inuvialuit Region. We are working on self-government. We are working with the departments to build capacity within everything that we do as Inuvialuit, and I'm sure other Indigenous governments are doing that across the territory. I think we need to utilize this time to revamp how things are working for our children, and use our next leadership forum, and invite the Indigenous leaders around the territory to help us develop the mandate for the next government of the Northwest Territories, because right now, it's not working. We are overloaded with mandate items that each and every one of us bring back from our regions, but how do we make those work together? It's not one size fits all. It needs to be specific for each region.

Mr. Speaker, my question is to myself. I'm sitting here listening to everything. Will a new Minister take over the current Minister's priorities as they move forward? Recently, we had a Cabinet shuffle and, Mr. Speaker, I can tell you that no, they didn't, actually. When certain Ministers swapped portfolios, they didn't take over the priorities of the current Minister or the government that set it in place, which is this arena right here. To me, that's an issue. We need to focus on that. We need to ensure that, when we do changes like this, whether it is a Cabinet shuffle or something within the department, I think we all need to work together on. That is where we get lost.

Sometimes, when we get lost, everything falls through the cracks and usually it's the children who are in care, you know. It's our friends and relatives who are in custody, or even elders who are in elders' homes right now, where in the Northwest Territories, some regions don't have the capacity to house elders who need the care.

Mr. Speaker, the moral of my story is, as such a massive department, what we need to do here is look at how we can improve it. Like what I said earlier, the leadership from my region came to my office this afternoon. We talked and they asked me to work with this Minister. There was a time when I was upset because I felt that, you know, after reading the report and looking at some of the items and some of the things that have come out of it, it is frustrating. How do we work with the Minister so that he can work with us? It's not that, Mr. Speaker. It's that we need to work together regardless of if we want to or not.

This past couple of weeks during this session has been a long one. It has been a tough one, but today, you know, I'm not going to support the motion, Mr. Speaker, because I do believe that we need to work together. There is so much to do within this year until next fall that we have to put our heads together, Mr. Speaker. This is more like a whipping for somebody to say, "Hey, you know what? You need to work with us." That, to me, that is exactly what that is today. I believe that is what we need to do.

Otherwise, if we don't do that, shame on all of us here, you know. We see these two Ministers who have been put on the spotlight today, or for the past few days. I think what we need to do is help the both of them, so they can help all the regions in the Northwest Territories. However we get there, Mr. Speaker, whatever it takes, however we get there, let's do what we need to.

Mr. Speaker, I won't support this motion today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Masi. To the motion. Member for Yellowknife South.

Mr. Speaker, our guiding principles for consensus government recognizes that a healthy tension between Cabinet and Regular Members is normal, Mr. Speaker. That is evident today. Our debates have not been without their disagreements.

As leaders, we will often be called upon to make difficult decisions; decisions where the path forward is not always clear. There are many priorities and many demands, many things that we want to do for our people. Managing the complex challenges and demands our government faces is a key part of every Minister's job, and there is not always going to be agreement over how that is done or the decisions that are made. I believe Minister Abernethy is doing a good job of facing the many complicated issues and challenges involved in delivering Health and Social Services to all 44,000 Northwest Territories residents in all 33 communities.

The methods for addressing a Minister's performance issues in the consensus system are well-known. As is the tradition in the consensus system, Cabinet works together to make decisions on behalf of residents and carry out the responsibilities that we are each responsible for.

As Premier, I am responsible for providing leadership and management of Cabinet, and I speak frequently with all my Ministers about the work that they are doing. If Members have concerns about how a Minister is performing, they may speak directly to the Minister to raise those concerns. If they feel there are still concerns after speaking with the Minister, Members can always come and speak to me directly. Our process convention also gives Members the option of asking for a fireside chat with me to speak as a group about issues they are concerned about.

I do not believe that action to revoke Minister Abernethy's appointment is warranted. He is an experienced leader in his second term as a Minister and has performed well in several portfolios.

The recent audit of the Child and Family Services System is concerning, but I am satisfied the Minister is taking this issue seriously and has a plan for addressing the concerns raised by the Auditor General. The department has been engaged with the Office of the Auditor General for several months during the development of this audit. They have examined the issues raised by the Auditor General carefully and in detail to develop a management response that is part of the audit report.

The management response lays out how the department will fix the problems identified by the Auditor General. I encourage Members to do their due diligence and hear from the department in detail about the actions they have taken and will continue to take to ensure that children are safe. I understand that Committee has set a meeting for December 12th to review the Auditor General's report with the department. I expect this will be a good opportunity for Members and the public to hear in great depth how the Minister and his department are taking action on this file.

The first audit found that the Northwest Territories' Child and Family Services system needed a complete overhaul, and this Minister undertook those changes recommended by the Office of the Auditor General. The Government of the Northwest Territories responded with Building Stronger Families, a comprehensive response to bring about foundational change in a system according to the Office of the Auditor General's recommendations.

Under Building Stronger Families, the Government of Northwest Territories has taken the time to bring a new legislation and procedures to completely change the orientation of the system from one that apprehended kids to one that is also focused on prevention and providing better supports to families. This is exactly the kind of shift and focus that Minister Jane Philpott has been talking about nationally, in which we have been among the first jurisdiction as to formally implement.

Take a look at other provinces and territories. Children in care is a national issue that we are challenged to address. The department has invested $5 million into putting the systems in place to respond to the 2014 Office of the Auditor General and Building Stronger Families plan. This includes support for the structured decision-making tools and the development of a new information system called Matrix. They will also be requesting resources through the next budgeting cycle to hire more staff.

We have made systemic change to the foundation that require staff to do work in a fundamentally different way. They are the right changes, focused on keeping kids in the communities and in their cultures, but implementing those changes has been challenging for front-line workers in the system.

The department has been monitoring its implementation of the system, including doing its own internal audits, that was telling them the same things the Auditor General learned. They have already brought in changes to ensure they are monitoring the system more closely, more frequently, and are directing systems to hear from front-line workers on implementing challenges on the ground. They have made management changes, are focusing on increased training and support for front-line workers, and are planning to increase the number of workers.

These are all steps that will help the Government of the Northwest Territories ensure it has a high-performing Child and Family Services System that puts the safety of the Northwest Territories' children first.

Cabinet has heard clearly from Members about their frustrations and their concerns. I intend to take what I have heard to heart. We can always do better as Ministers. As Premier, I am committed to doing whatever I can to live up to ours residents' expectations on the provision of good government, and so are all the Members of Cabinet.

Mr. Speaker, Cabinet will be voting against this motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Masi. To the motion. Member for Great Slave.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak to this motion.

During the speeches today and comments made by Members of this Assembly over the last couple of weeks, it appears that some Members don't believe that I am committed to the CFS file.

Mr. Speaker, I want to ensure Members that this is not the case. I am 100 percent committed to make the necessary systemic and principal changes to Child and Family Services that will move it from a system of apprehension to one focused on prevention, while at the same time protecting children at risk from harm.

During the 16th Assembly, I participated in a review of the Child and Family Services in the Northwest Territories. During that review, I travelled to every region and virtually every community to meet with residents, former CFS clients, families, as well as children at risk. It was an incredibly difficult tour, Mr. Speaker, and at every stop, we heard some of the most horrific stories of how the CFS System had torn apart families, ignored culture, and caused harm. These stories and visits had a profound impact on me, and I made a commitment to the people that I met that I would work hard to change the system. I have done that, and I will still keep doing that. In fact, I will continue to fight to improve this system, whether I am a Minister, a Member, and even after I leave this Assembly and enter the non-political life.

Mr. Speaker, I was proud when the committee came forward in 2010 with the 73 recommendations to improve our system here in the Northwest Territories. In 2011, I was re-elected and honoured to be selected as a Member of Executive Council. In 2013, the Premier announced the Cabinet shuffle, and I did something that nobody does. I asked for Health and Social Services. This is an area that I am incredibly passionate about and feel like I could make a positive difference on this file for the people of the Northwest Territories. On October 2013, I did become the Minister of Health and Social Services.

At pretty much my very first meeting, I asked the then-deputy Minister an important question: where are we with the 73 recommendations? The answer was nowhere. It wasn't a priority. Mr. Speaker, this made me incredibly unhappy, and I felt like the work that we had done had fallen on deaf ears. I immediately directed the department to start putting together a plan to address all of the recommendations. The end result is Building Stronger Families.

While doing the foundational work on Building Stronger Families, the CFS system was also being audited by the Auditor General of Canada. The timing of the Auditor General's audit, in my mind, was good, and we saw the findings, although, at the time, hard to hear, as helpful, and we were able to incorporate their 11 recommendations into the plan for the future of the Child and Family Services system.

In October 2014, Building Stronger Families was released as a five-year action plan to move us forward, and we are currently in year four of that rollout. I still strongly believe that Building Stronger Families is the right plan and that prevention-based system is the right thing to do. As a note, I have always been very clear that the first three or four years would have to be focused on building the foundation necessary to bring about change.

Also, as a note, the TRC report and its recommendations were released in June 2015. We were very happy that the recommendations in the TRC report related specifically to child welfare, which is consistent with the direction outlined in Building Stronger Families. It validated our hard work and reconfirmed the message that we heard from residents throughout the Northwest Territories.

Since the 2014 audit, many things have happened. In 2014, the Auditor General said that we needed to improve accountability, so we appointed and trained assistant directors in each region and made them accountable for Child and Family Services.

We were told to establish compliance audits and learn from them, so we did, and we are.

We were asked to report annually to the Legislative Assembly on the state of Child and Family Services, and we have done so for the past five years.

The Auditor General said that we needed tools to assess longer-term risks to children, so we introduced structured decision-making tools. The use of the structured decision-making tools is allowing us to become more strength-based and more family-oriented.

We were told to improve training, so we revised core training for child protection workers and introduced mandatory supervisor training, and in 2014, staff had access to about 10 training days. Now, staff participates up to 90 training days in communities as well as in classes.

We were told to update our standards and procedures manual. In 2015, the whole manual was rewritten, which included over 200 standards, forms, and tools that are being used to review and update, and they were introduced as part of the new standards.

We were told to develop a process to improve information sharing, so we created a monthly teleconference and annual meeting where key staff can share challenges and best practices, and we have extended that to all staff.

While the OAG made it clear that some of these changes introduced should have been implemented better, and, for the record, we agree, this audit neither reran the full audit from 2014 or passed negative judgement on what we have done. It is unfortunate, because these actions are the actions that form the key foundation pieces that make all of the profound changes that we need to happen possible.

Mr. Speaker, this brings us to where we are today. However, before I start discussing where we are today, I want to take an opportunity to apologize to the families and the children who have asked us to do better. We are going in the right direction, but we have not made the progress that I know you wanted to see. As a system, we will redouble our efforts and make Building Stronger Families a reality for you and for your families.

Mr. Speaker, the 2018 Auditor General's report on Child and Family Services was gut-wrenching for us all. I was deeply disappointed and concerned when I saw the OAG conclusion that there were areas where we were worse, specifically that we haven't managed risk as well as we should have.

Mr. Speaker, every person working on Child and Family Services, including me, wants to do everything possible to make sure that we are meeting our key responsibilities for the protection and well-being of children, young people, and families. The question that preoccupies me, and I know it is on the minds of all of our staff, is: are kids safe? I talked to our people on the frontlines, and I know how incredibly hard they work and that they are committed to making sure that our children are safe. It is our job to support them to do this, and we need to do it better.

The OAG report is a critical part of helping us do it better, and I thank them for their incredible work. Looking back at the 2014 Auditor General's report, we did implement every recommendation that we received, and through our Building Stronger Families plan, we brought in massive changes to the system, and we did this to provide better support to families and vulnerable children, who we serve.

I remain convinced that we are doing the right things, but it is equally clear that good intentions, ambitious plans, and hard work can only carry us so far. Where we have fallen short as a system is how we implement change, and I want to be clear, while the 2008 report does not find fault with the direction and intention of our actions, it clearly shows that we need more focus on how we are embedding quality practices into our organizational structure and that we need to improve our staff capacity and engagement to ensure that the massive changes we have been undertaking are sustained and lead to improved services.

This report has clearly validated that the system needed a better approach to resourcing, managing, and structuring and sustaining a massive change that we have embarked upon. We have been doing the right things, but we haven't focused enough in the right way.

Mr. Speaker, my department has accepted every recommendation in the OAG report, and we have provided a detailed response, which I encourage everybody to read, which moves us beyond simply saying, "We agree," and demonstrates the tangible actions that we have started and will continue. As you have already heard me say, the OAG findings aligned with our internal audit findings in key areas that we have been working on since May to implement actions to address these findings.

Mr. Speaker, we did not wait for the OAG to take action. I would like to share with you actions that my department has already taken and has planned to take moving forward.

Our 2016-2017 internal audits and executive summary, which I shared with Members of the Standing Committee on Social Development in April 2017, identified quality issues where we needed to take actions and improvements. I saw the letter again today. We sent it in 2017. I heard Members saying that they didn't see it, so we have to figure out where it is and why they didn't see it, because I sent it. Based on those audits, and the ongoing work with the Auditor General, we put together a quality improvement plan.

So what have we done? As a system, we have been moving together to develop and act on this quality improvement plan. Much has been done over the past six months. We established a system-wide coordinating team to develop and implement actions to address high-risk quality issues.

We strengthened the assistant directors' forum to enhance their capacity and role clarity and oversight over the entire system.

Using the Matrix system, which was implemented late in 2017, we have implemented a process of quality reviews in areas where risk has been identified as highest by the OAG. A quality review provides real-time information to frontline staff and management about the performance of regions and key indicators. Starting four months ago, these reviews are now provided on a monthly basis, and I look forward to sharing those with committee as we go through the review in December.

We have established a robust training team of four staff dedicated to improving clinical training of staff, and trainers are located throughout the territories. To address the issues with supervision, a clinical supervision model has already been finalized, and training is being planned and will be completed by the end of December. We have improved our out-of-territory treatment approach by redesigning work flow, building a database, and preparing agreements for all 40 clients in out-of-territory care.

Just for clarity, 20 of the children in out-of-territory care are actually with their parents. They are living with their parents in the south. The other 20 are in facilities where we have checked, and there are clear guidelines. Those clear guidelines exist should a child go AWOL. We have established a specialized caseload for foster care as a territorial approach and now have identified positions in each region and department. Four of these seven positions are filled.

We reviewed all 22 guardianship cases, and I can assure the honourable Members that, in each case, our staff with delegated authority worked with the support of legal counsel to enable family Members or other agreed-upon caregivers to assume interim or full guardianship under the Children's Law Act. All agreements were with full parental support. All agreements engaged legal counsel for the director and the parents, and in most cases, the children's lawyer. I can assure Members that these children were placed with known and trusted caregivers.

Mr. Speaker, I have just given you a list of some of what we have done to address the issues of the OAG report, but I know what you're most interested in is what we haven't done and why. What we have done hasn't been enough.

Mr. Speaker, some of my colleagues have asked why I didn't share these issues sooner, and I've been clear and honest with colleagues and the public regarding issues facing our system. In April of this year, I shared with the Standing Committee on Social Programs a report summarizing the findings of the 2016-2017 audit process within CFIS, and I recently said in this Assembly and tabled the director's report and clearly described some of our shortcomings and talked about areas that we clearly need to make some improvement.

I also advised colleagues and the public that we have much work left to do here in this House and in committee while reviewing our business plans. Our updated audit approach is about continuous quality improvement and building on the strength to develop a better system.

We haven't done a comparative audit, like the OAG, because we haven't had a baseline due to the newness of our internal audit process. Thus, we have not produced reports that would identify our performance at different points in time. That said, the department is working on an approach to public reporting of key indicators that will be more clear and more transparent.

Mr. Speaker, I know that all Members are aware that the OAG process is very protected and very regimented. All staff have been engaged in the review in the early drafts of the findings and recommendations. We are bound by confidentiality. I was, of course, aware of the key findings in the department's planning, but I would have been breaching the confidence of the OAG to disclose any details of their findings, and it could have been seen as a breach or an attempt to upend the OAG by providing significant details of our own audit that were clearly aligned with that of the OAG. Mr. Speaker, it's frustrating, I know. I hear the Members, but I respect the processes that we are bound by here, and I will honour them.

Many of you ask me: why didn't I seek resources? Mr. Speaker, we invested over $5 million in new resources to support improvements in Child and Family Services, and this was the total cost of implementing the structured decision making and Matrix. As a Minister, I took advice that the implementation of these systems would have positive impact on the workloads of staff and would change the nature of the workflow. For this reason, the opinion I received was that we should wait until full implementation. That means getting SMD Matrix in place so that we would be in a better position to do diligent and appropriate workload analysis, and that we could then use them to identify the resources that we truly need. At the time, it seemed logical, and I felt like the appropriate balance of doing the right thing would be prudent and responsible.

However, earlier this year, based on feedback from the department staff and staff from Health and Social Services, I became incredibly uncomfortable with this approach and directed the department to prepare a submission for business planning to seek new resources for more frontline staff.

The department drawing on the Child Welfare League of Canada Report and Caseloads Standards from the Child Welfare League of America completed a caseload review. While it isn't our convention to speak of matters in business planning process as colleagues, colleagues know we are seeking new resources in this important area and are proposing increases through budgetary processes for the next fiscal year. With the benefit of hindsight and finding of the OAG report, I obviously wish that we'd ask for resources to support frontline caregivers much sooner, and I'm deeply frustrated that the information I needed to provide the realization and provide direction was not available sooner.

Mr. Speaker, I saw a problem with our approach, and I took action. Mr. Speaker, in addition to the actions we have taken, there is much more work that needs to be done, and we will be compiling a focused two-year action plan to improve quality quickly. These action plans will be discussed in detail during the meeting with the Standing Committee on Government Operations in December following our well-established processes for reviewing and responding to OAG reports here in this Legislative Assembly. For the sake of time, I won't go into detail now.

Mr. Speaker, since the release of the audit, I have tried to openly share with Members what has been done and tackle head-on some of the concerns I have heard from colleagues in the hallway. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, CUPE is not always the best way to get detailed information out. There are processes in dealing with the OAG audits, and I feel that we must refocus and get back to the established processes. This is the process the legislature designated to ensure Members have the opportunity to learn more, ask important questions, provide valuable insight, feedback, and make recommendations that will help shape the improvements that we collectively make in this area.

I look forward to your thoughts and recommendations through that important and well-established process, and I want to be clear, this essential work and the OAG's report is critical to making a stronger system.

This has been truly a gut-wrenching experience for all involved, but as leader, it is my job to tackle it head-on, not take a back seat; own it; and ensure that we learn from the experience and move forward and build our foundation we have put in place over the four years to do better. As Minister, I am completely invested in improving Child and Family Services in the Northwest Territories and to lead this system through quality improvement journey that we started since 2014 and are currently strengthening.

We are in the fourth year of a five-year action plan which will now need to be modified. We know Matrix system change does not occur as an event. It's a process that takes time, focus, periodic stock-taking, and course correction. This audit is a call to action, and it shows us where we need to tighten up.

Mr. Speaker, late last week, Senator Murray Sinclair said that "residential school monster now lives in the child welfare system in Canada," and I completely agree with him. That is consistent with what we heard during our review of the Child and Family Services system in 2010. It is why we brought forward the Building Stronger Families. This is why we are focusing on families and prevention. It's the right thing to do.

Without question, we need to do better as we continue to roll out the new innovative model. Mr. Speaker, I work hard with respect to Standing Committee on Social Programs. Together, we have been able to make a number of positive changes on files that we've worked on together to benefit all Northerners. They know that I'm open, approachable, willing to work with them, and am able to find compromise and solutions for the benefit of residents of the Northwest Territories. Touring the massive Child and Family Services system has proven incredibly difficult, but together, and all together and with the help of this very heartbreaking audit, we can make a stronger Child and Family Services system in the Northwest Territories together that meets the needs of children and families.

Mr. Speaker, the system will never be without risk, but we need to work harder to mitigate risk that exists. This is what the Auditor General told us. I hope that Members are willing to continue to work with me as Minister for the last 11 months of this term so that we don't lose momentum and can make this happen.

In closing, I would like to once again apologize to the children and families who asked us to do better, and reconfirm my commitment to redouble our efforts to make Building Stronger Families a reality for you and your families. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Masi. By the authority given to me as Speaker by Motion 7-18(3), I hereby authorize the House to sit beyond the daily hour of adjournment to consider the businesses before the House.

To the motion. I will allow the mover to make their closing comments.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have to give credit to the Minister. That's leadership. He stood up, took responsibility, and apologized to the children and the families that have been affected. I thank the Minister for that. My problem, though, is we still did not put resources to it. We are going to wait until next year to start this, so that's another six months that Cabinet has to wait because they should be bringing a supp to the floor and saying, "Hey, we need to put some money to this. We need to hire more people, more social workers there."

I know it's great that we are doing it next term or next year. That is great, but it doesn't deal with the issue now. I put it onto Cabinet. The Minister couldn't do a good enough job to get it there, but this is a crisis. We need to find issues and find money. The Cabinet has to wear that if they don't bring a supp and they wait for the business plans to go through 2019-2020. At the end of the day, it's about the youth. I appreciate the Minister for being so passionate and carrying and that.

At this point in time, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to have a recorded vote. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.